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[Oblivion]

Didn't Iwata get promoted to president some time in early 2004?

 

[Justin Bailey]

Hey guys, ruby_onix couldn't possibly have an agenda or anything. Believe. And stuff.

 

[momolicious]

I really enjoyed the DKC series

 

[Cheerilee]

Didn't Iwata get promoted to president some time in early 2004?

http://cube.ign.com/articles/530/530986p1.html

In 1982 he joined HAL.
In 1983 he became an unofficial Nintendo employee.
In 1992 he (and Masahiro Sakurai) made Kirby.
In 1993 he became President of HAL.
In 2000 he resigned as President of HAL and became an official Nintendo employee because he was spending all his time on GameCube development.
In 2002 he became President of Nintendo.

Edit:

Hey guys, ruby_onix couldn't possibly have an agenda or anything.

I just don't like Iwata. Not a popular opinion these days, I know. I don't think his words match his actions (except the words I don't like, which is just my luck), in a world where words from an official = confirmed.

 

[MisterHero]

Exactly. DKR utterly destroys Mario Kart 64. Mario Kart 64 is basically unplayable. DKR brought so much to the genre. Bosses, co-op, better items and control. An actual hub.

MK64 is a disgrace, besides the killer music.

As for Miyamoto saying he can create a better FPS than Goldeneye 007 or Halo. What a crock of shit. Miyamoto has fallen down from grace more than Rare has. Miyamoto wouldn't even know where to begin when making a FPS, look at Giest.

This thread is made of LOL.

 

[Justin Bailey]

I just don't like Iwata. Not a popular opinion these days, I know. I don't think his words match his actions (except the words I don't like, which is just my luck), in a world where words from an official = confirmed.

It's fine not to like him, but you can't deny that he has had a major role in turning the company into where it is today - which is at the top. In 2002, only the most blind fanboy would have told you that Nintendo would be #1 in console sales this gen. Even when the DS came out people thought the PSP would be trouncing it. It's a pretty damn amazing accomplishment.

 

[manueldelalas]

Exactly. DKR utterly destroys Mario Kart 64. Mario Kart 64 is basically unplayable. DKR brought so much to the genre. Bosses, co-op, better items and control. An actual hub.

MK64 is a disgrace, besides the killer music.

As for Miyamoto saying he can create a better FPS than Goldeneye 007 or Halo. What a crock of shit. Miyamoto has fallen down from grace more than Rare has. Miyamoto wouldn't even know where to begin when making a FPS, look at Giest.

MK64 is so much better than DKR, especially when you consider the multiplayer aspects of that game... how many sleepless nights we played with my friends that shit...

And don't you dare say anything about Miyamoto. If there is someone who understands the game industry in this world they are Miyamoto and Iwata.

Miyamoto created the concept and designed Nintendogs (15 million and it's still selling, being played by your girlfriend at this moment), was general producer (and very involved) in Wii Sports (biggest IP this generation), designed the concept of Super Mario Galaxy (along with COD4, the best game of 2007, 6 million seller and growing) and designer for Wii Fit (next big IP your mother will play).

All of this games prove only one thing: Miyamoto is still the god of videogames and he hasn't lost the Midas touch.

 

[DarthWaiter]

Miyamoto designed the concept of COD4, the best game of 2007, 6 million seller and growing

WHAT WHAT!?

 

[Redd]

WHAT WHAT!?

heh wondering the same thing. Did I miss something?

 

[Justin Bailey]

:lol Ok, I've got to hear how Miyamoto designed the concept of Call of Duty 4.

 

[Crushed]

okay what the hell is going on in here

miyamoto is still a great dude
but dkr is factually superior to mk64, which was a piece of crap with a good battle mode

 

[StevieP]

heh wondering the same thing. Did I miss something?

When I read that I did a double take as well. Then I read it more slowly, and realized he was talking about how Mario and COD are both 2 of the top games of 2007, and he wanted to make sure that people knew that, in that poster's opinion, Galaxy wasn't the only top game of 2K7. At least that's what I think.

Xbox still lives. And Rare is even with them now. And the PSP seems to have found it's wings, even though it's a little shaky.

I asked you for a percentage on how far dead gaming is. Please be sure to ignore the record numbers that gaming saw in 2007.

Sort of like how Rare was a sinking ship and Nintendo obviously needed to cut them loose.

Rare may not be completely devoid of talent, as many trolls here would like you to believe. But look at the difference in critical and commercial success as of, oh, the last half decade. As much as I may miss Banjo 3 until it releases on PC, Nintendo's sale of shares was absolutely the correct thing to do from a business standpoint, and in retrospect was very smart... even if Viva would've sold far better on the Wii.

 

[Mifune]

:lol

He meant that SMG was one of the best sellers of 2007 ALONG with COD4. Not that he worked on it.

I had the same initial reaction, too.

:lol

 

[Cheerilee]

It's fine not to like him, but you can't deny that he has had a major role in turning the company into where it is today - which is at the top. In 2002, only the most blind fanboy would have told you that Nintendo would be #1 in console sales this gen. Even when the DS came out people thought the PSP would be trouncing it. It's a pretty damn amazing accomplishment.

I definitely won't argue that Nintendo and Iwata are on top. I was just saying that Iwata's record isn't as legendary as some people like to think. He climbed the ladder and was very highly ranked within Nintendo for years before becoming president. He deserves credit for the GameCube. And then after his promotion, he still didn't wield absolute power. Nintendo's decision to pay to keep/get paid to lose Rare immediately after his promotion was probably out of his hands, whether you consider the decision they made to be a good or bad one. The success of the DS improved his standing (regardless of just how much of his DNA went into it), at least enough for Wii to be all his own. And Wii's success has made Nintendo powerful again, made Iwata's power most likely absolute, and turned him into a legendary hero.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

I think Rare any publisher would absolutely love to have Rare. They are an extremely talented bunch and I think Banjo and future games will prove that.

I already believe Viva Pinata was fantastic.

 

[Oliver.S]

If I'm not a mistaken that was a lot of DK64 talent right there.

No, it was mainly the team behind BC, DKR and JFG.

 

[Zek]

Rare is still a decent developer. But they sure aren't 300 million dollars decent. Nintendo made out like bandits.

 

[Axiom]

My opinions on issues bought up in the thread.

- Diddy Kong Racing is better than Mario Kart 64.
- Banjo-Kazooie is not better than Mario 64, but it's great and Kazooie makes for a far better mechanic than Mario Sunshine's water pack ever was.
- Banjo-Tooie is underated, but understandably so given the framerate. Hoping playable Mumbo is in Banjo 3, or at least more Mumbo vs. Humba Wumba snarkyness.
- Conker has the one of the most surprisingly poignant endings ever, and it's worth seeing. Conker had more meat to it than bouncing on flower tits would imply.
- I'd love for Jet Force Gemini on Live Arcade, but only if they take out required Tribal hunting. That kind of mechanic is best served by an achievement...and the music needs to be heard again.

Mainly though I just wanted to say that while I love Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong Country 2, DKC2 is the better game.
I'm of the school that thinks Mario World is better than Mario 3 and my reasoning boils down to the ingenious secrets and exploration the game rewards but never requires. Rare took Nintendo's lead and pushed it to the next level.

Yoshi's Island may trump it in style, charm, bosses and the fact it'll help your snooker game, but DKC2 makes for a far more rewarding and fun platforming experience.

DKC2 has the best designed, most well thought out and complementary to the gameplay secrets of any game I've ever played. With a DKC level of exploration and reward it'd have just been a great platformer, but finding the secrets in DKC2 is ridiculously rewarding from a platformer fans standpoint.
It's a gameplay version of those browser based puzzle games where you have to change the URL and look at source code, in that after the first few secrets you can't just use your preconceptions of where a platform game usually hides things to achieve success. In fact as you find more you end up getting used to how the game hides things and what things it would require you to do, which is right about where they'll throw you a curveball and you'll find yourself stumped because the designer is using your new found preconceptions against you.
It's just brilliant. Someone did a write up about this ages back, phrasing it far better than I ever could.


How Rare went from this to requiring banana birds, Simon Says, 100 musical notes and all the mistakes Donkey Kong 64 made is beyond me. Still like the witty bastards though.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Mainly though I just wanted to say that while I love Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong Country 2, DKC2 is the better game.
I'm of the school that thinks Mario World is better than Mario 3 and my reasoning boils down to the ingenious secrets and exploration the game rewards but never requires. Rare took Nintendo's lead and pushed it to the next level.

Yoshi's Island may trump it in style, charm, bosses and the fact it'll help your snooker game, but DKC2 makes for a far more rewarding and fun platforming experience.

DKC2 has the best designed, most well thought out and complementary to the gameplay secrets of any game I've ever played. With a DKC level of exploration and reward it'd have just been a great platformer, but finding the secrets in DKC2 is ridiculously rewarding from a platformer fans standpoint.
It's a gameplay version of those browser based puzzle games where you have to change the URL and look at source code, in that after the first few secrets you can't just use your preconceptions of where a platform game usually hides things to achieve success. In fact as you find more you end up getting used to how the game hides things and what things it would require you to do, which is right about where they'll throw you a curveball and you'll find yourself stumped because the designer is using your new found preconceptions against you.
It's just brilliant. Someone did a write up about this ages back, phrasing it far better than I ever could.


How Rare went from this to requiring banana birds, Simon Says, 100 musical notes and all the mistakes Donkey Kong 64 made is beyond me. Still like the witty bastards though.

DKC3 is just as good as DKC2. I really can't understand why people dislike it so much more... it's pretty much DKC2, again, but at least as good or better. It's got even more interesting, unique level designs, more great graphics and music, plenty to do... sure it has collection, but so does DKC2. The required collection in DKC3 is no more substantial than DKC2. The rest of it's optional, just like the second game.

Really, it was DKC2, not 3, that greatly increased the amount available to collect. In DKC1, the only collectibles are finding all the hidden areas... DKC2 adds a huge amount of stuff on top of that. DKC3 changed much less in comparison to its predecessor.

Anyway, DKC2 definitely is a great game, and so is DKC3... and DKC1, though it's simpler and not quite as good as either of the later titles.

Though of course, I did like DK64 too... it did have a lot of collecting, but for a 3d platformer, it was pretty good. Good level designs, lots of fun, plenty to do... I didn't mind the collecting too much. I don't know if I'd want to play it again (and indeed, the more Rare 3d platformers you play, the less you want to do more such collecting... I think this was part of the problem. People were kind of tired of the formula after B-K, so DK64 got punished for being a good game that happened to have more collecting than the last game -- and B-K is a game with plenty of collecting. But I played DK64 first, not B-K... so for me, the formula was fresh when I played it. I'm sure that helped me like it.

 

[Shadowlink]

DKC3 is just as good as DKC2. I really can't understand why people dislike it so much more... it's pretty much DKC2, again, but at least as good or better. It's got even more interesting, unique level designs, more great graphics and music, plenty to do... sure it has collection, but so does DKC2. The required collection in DKC3 is no more substantial than DKC2. The rest of it's optional, just like the second game.

Really, it was DKC2, not 3, that greatly increased the amount available to collect. In DKC1, the only collectibles are finding all the hidden areas... DKC2 adds a huge amount of stuff on top of that. DKC3 changed much less in comparison to its predecessor.

Anyway, DKC2 definitely is a great game, and so is DKC3... and DKC1, though it's simpler and not quite as good as either of the later titles.

Though of course, I did like DK64 too... it did have a lot of collecting, but for a 3d platformer, it was pretty good. Good level designs, lots of fun, plenty to do... I didn't mind the collecting too much. I don't know if I'd want to play it again (and indeed, the more Rare 3d platformers you play, the less you want to do more such collecting... I think this was part of the problem. People were kind of tired of the formula after B-K, so DK64 got punished for being a good game that happened to have more collecting than the last game -- and B-K is a game with plenty of collecting. But I played DK64 first, not B-K... so for me, the formula was fresh when I played it. I'm sure that helped me like it.

Yea I think people judge DKC3 in a bad way but I think its just as damn good as the other DKC games, but as far as I know, IMO DKC2 is the best Donkey kong game ever made and if you haven't played it, then you should play it.

 

[Mifune]

My opinions on issues bought up in the thread.

- Diddy Kong Racing is better than Mario Kart 64.
- Banjo-Kazooie is not better than Mario 64, but it's great and Kazooie makes for a far better mechanic than Mario Sunshine's water pack ever was.
- Banjo-Tooie is underated, but understandably so given the framerate. Hoping playable Mumbo is in Banjo 3, or at least more Mumbo vs. Humba Wumba snarkyness.
- Conker has the one of the most surprisingly poignant endings ever, and it's worth seeing. Conker had more meat to it than bouncing on flower tits would imply.
- I'd love for Jet Force Gemini on Live Arcade, but only if they take out required Tribal hunting. That kind of mechanic is best served by an achievement...and the music needs to be heard again.

Mainly though I just wanted to say that while I love Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong Country 2, DKC2 is the better game.
I'm of the school that thinks Mario World is better than Mario 3 and my reasoning boils down to the ingenious secrets and exploration the game rewards but never requires. Rare took Nintendo's lead and pushed it to the next level.

Yoshi's Island may trump it in style, charm, bosses and the fact it'll help your snooker game, but DKC2 makes for a far more rewarding and fun platforming experience.

DKC2 has the best designed, most well thought out and complementary to the gameplay secrets of any game I've ever played. With a DKC level of exploration and reward it'd have just been a great platformer, but finding the secrets in DKC2 is ridiculously rewarding from a platformer fans standpoint.
It's a gameplay version of those browser based puzzle games where you have to change the URL and look at source code, in that after the first few secrets you can't just use your preconceptions of where a platform game usually hides things to achieve success. In fact as you find more you end up getting used to how the game hides things and what things it would require you to do, which is right about where they'll throw you a curveball and you'll find yourself stumped because the designer is using your new found preconceptions against you.
It's just brilliant. Someone did a write up about this ages back, phrasing it far better than I ever could.


How Rare went from this to requiring banana birds, Simon Says, 100 musical notes and all the mistakes Donkey Kong 64 made is beyond me. Still like the witty bastards though.

Great post.

You make me want to play DKC2 now in a bad way.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Great post.

You make me want to play DKC2 now in a bad way.

I was just thinking the same thing. Probably my second favorite 2D platformer of all time (behind only Super Mario World).

 

[Mifune]

I was just thinking the same thing. Probably my second favorite 2D platformer of all time (behind only Super Mario World).

Wait a second. I just checked wiki and it's on VC?!?!

Christ, turn your Wii on once in a while Mifune.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Wait a second. I just checked wiki and it's on VC?!?!

Huh, I didn't realize that. Of course, I own the game (and an SNES) so I won't rebuy it. They should really release Snake Rattle 'n' Roll. That and Solomon's Key were two of my favorite NES games back in the day.

 

[Shadowlink]

Wait a second. I just checked wiki and it's on VC?!?!

Christ, turn your Wii on once in a while Mifune.

All DKC games are on the VC.

 

[Mifune]

All DKC games are on the VC.

That's awesome. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Gigglepoo]

All DKC games are on the VC.

Are there any other Rare games? Anticipation?

 

[Shadowlink]

Are there any other Rare games? Anticipation?

Sadly no, since Rare isn't part of Nintendo, the only rare game left to come on VC is DK64 but thats it.

 

[Axiom]

On DKC3

My biggest issues with DKC3 are the fact it's riddled with gimmick levels that aren't much fun, the art direction is a step back, Kiddy is lame, the whole colour palette doesn't work, the secrets aren't handled as well and worst of all, they ruined the DK coin mechanic.

Making it about 'How do I find a way kill this guy' rather than 'Where the hell is the coin?' boiled most of the challenge down to constant unfun barrel escort missions. I don't think the added overworld and fetch quest elements worked in a fun way either.

It's not bad at all, but it's the worst of the three DKC games in my book. It's Mario Sunshine to DKC's Mario 64 (impact) and DKC2's Galaxy (perfecting the formula).

DK64 has a good game buried under required repetition of the good bits, and while getting 103% in DKC3 isn't required, I don't think the methods of collection are nearly as fun.


Sure you can copy a formula and clone it to the letter, but it doesn't mean you'll hit on the non-obvious or completely accidental elements that made it work so well in the first place, and in trying to 'make it its own game' you may make it worse. Consider Star Fox Adventures to a Zelda or Saint's Row to a GTA.

 

[Kadey]

Because they rarely did anything for them. Har har. It seems like Nintendo knows what's up with talent and how to do less for more.

 

[beerbelly]

Oh god DKC3 was such a letdown...it only had 2 or 3 good tracks. DKC2 still has one of the best soundtracks.

 

[stewacide]

Sure you can copy a formula and clone it to the letter, but it doesn't mean you'll hit on the non-obvious or completely accidental elements that made it work so well in the first place, and in trying to 'make it its own game' you may make it worse. Consider Star Fox Adventures to a Zelda or Saint's Row to a GTA.

GTA clones I can take or leave (although I thought Saints Row was generally regarded as a good one?)... but competent Zelda clones are so rare it's very hard to criticize someone for cribbing a solid but underused formula and doing it justice (even if it doesn't live up to the original).

Point: moar Zelda clones plz, especially from Rare!

 

[NinajHeartless]

My opinions on issues bought up in the thread.

- Diddy Kong Racing is better than Mario Kart 64.
- Banjo-Kazooie is not better than Mario 64, but it's great and Kazooie makes for a far better mechanic than Mario Sunshine's water pack ever was.
- Banjo-Tooie is underated, but understandably so given the framerate. Hoping playable Mumbo is in Banjo 3, or at least more Mumbo vs. Humba Wumba snarkyness.
- Conker has the one of the most surprisingly poignant endings ever, and it's worth seeing. Conker had more meat to it than bouncing on flower tits would imply.
- I'd love for Jet Force Gemini on Live Arcade, but only if they take out required Tribal hunting. That kind of mechanic is best served by an achievement...and the music needs to be heard again.

Mainly though I just wanted to say that while I love Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong Country 2, DKC2 is the better game.
I'm of the school that thinks Mario World is better than Mario 3 and my reasoning boils down to the ingenious secrets and exploration the game rewards but never requires. Rare took Nintendo's lead and pushed it to the next level.

Yoshi's Island may trump it in style, charm, bosses and the fact it'll help your snooker game, but DKC2 makes for a far more rewarding and fun platforming experience.

DKC2 has the best designed, most well thought out and complementary to the gameplay secrets of any game I've ever played. With a DKC level of exploration and reward it'd have just been a great platformer, but finding the secrets in DKC2 is ridiculously rewarding from a platformer fans standpoint.
It's a gameplay version of those browser based puzzle games where you have to change the URL and look at source code, in that after the first few secrets you can't just use your preconceptions of where a platform game usually hides things to achieve success. In fact as you find more you end up getting used to how the game hides things and what things it would require you to do, which is right about where they'll throw you a curveball and you'll find yourself stumped because the designer is using your new found preconceptions against you.
It's just brilliant. Someone did a write up about this ages back, phrasing it far better than I ever could.


How Rare went from this to requiring banana birds, Simon Says, 100 musical notes and all the mistakes Donkey Kong 64 made is beyond me. Still like the witty bastards though.

TRUE

 

[Prine]

There are more at Free Radical Design......now whether do you consider them key or not....well.........

Also, seeing you're avatar you seem in need of protecting the hive or something?

You cant just say these lies and believe them. If you want to be in denial to make yourself feel better then i dont know what to say. You dont want to believe the truth.

Doak left to form Free Radical with 3 other programmers/artists from Rare. Not anyone noteworthy

Hollis left Rare before the purchase to work for Nintendo in Japan as part of their R&D team.

The mastermind behind Conker, Banjo are still at Rare, same with the music guys. Rare are still the best in the industry when it comes to technology and music. Talent leaves but its also gained. The new guys headed Kameo, and that turned out to be fun, i have no doubt Rare will produce more talented guys over the next couple of years.

The proof is there, in the games. Viva Pinata shows more charm, character and creativity than anything FR and Zoonami since Rare purchase. Seriously. Play it.

 

[evilromero]

okay what the hell is going on in here

miyamoto is still a great dude
but dkr is factually superior to mk64, which was a piece of crap with a good battle mode

DKR is still one of the most enjoyable racers today. It has the level design and accessibility of the MK series plus the great variety. We just threw down on several 4-player races the other day.

 

[Shadowlink]

DKR is still one of the most enjoyable racers today. It has the level design and accessibility of the MK series plus the great variety. We just threw down on several 4-player races the other day.

DKR was a great racing game but for some reason, I kept on playing MK64 because it's just more fun to me than DKR.