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LTTP: Xenogears (Spoilers)

I just finished Xenogears today and considering the size of the game there’s certainly a lot to talk about. This post is going to get a bit long.

To start with, the visuals aged pretty well from using dynamic character sprites in a 3D background. The soundtrack was also great, but that’s not much of a surprise considering who composed it.

Regarding the gameplay, the character-based combat was fun and I always enjoyed learning new deathblows. It was a bit simple but it worked. However, it took longer to warm up to the Gear combat considering how limited everything felt early on. Starting with very few combos and having no way to heal for a long stretch of the game kind of wore on the novelty of fighting in giant mechs. Once those stopped being an issue and more options opened up I started to enjoy the Gear combat more, especially after getting the Omnigears. That being said, the upgrade parts always felt just a bit too expensive.

It was neat to be able to control the camera and jump around everywhere in an older RPG, although the mechanics haven’t necessarily aged the best. Both the camera control and platforming felt clunky, which certainly wasn’t helped by random encounters triggering in the middle of a jump and making you drop like a rock. It was also annoying to have enemies spawn when going through a door or talking to an NPC. Babel Tower was easily the most notable example of all these issues, though the Kislev Sewers deserve an honorable mention for being annoying, as well. Overall the gameplay was decent but nothing amazing. It definitely got interrupted a lot by all of the cutscenes, too.

However, I didn’t mind the onslaught of cutscenes too much because I loved the story. It wasn’t perfectly executed but I loved the ambition and scope of everything. Fei, Elly, Citan, and Bart were all really likable characters, and the amount of development Fei and Elly got was incredibly well done. However, it felt like some of the later party members got a lot less focus, and it would have been nice to see them get a bit more development after their introductory story arcs came to a close. The same problem can’t be said for the major villains, though. They all got a ton of screen time and were a lot of fun to watch although even by “vague evil council” standards it felt like the Gazel Ministry was a bit more, well, vague and confusing than necessary sometimes.

Speaking of vague and confusing, the story definitely had a lot going on. I was usually able to keep track of most of the plot threads while maybe forgetting about one or two smaller details on occasion. It got a bit overwhelming in Disc 2, though. The two most egregious examples were probably the massive wall of exposition given by Miang right after she took control of Elly and the entire scene when Fei met the Wave Existence. However, I was still able to grasp most of the details and had a pretty good idea of everything that happened by the time the story ended. While I appreciate just how dense and complex the story got, a lot of the details could have been explained a bit better.

Everything that happened with Disc 2 obviously didn’t help matters. I already knew going in that the budget ran out at the end of Disc 1 so it was more or less what I expected. I never got fully hooked on the gameplay so I wasn’t too hung up on it being mostly absent. What bothered me the most about Disc 2 was how many plot developments were quickly glossed over. Quite a few potential story arcs seemed badly gutted like when humans all over the world started mutating and how the protagonists dealt with the issue. Instead the characters described the situation for roughly 20 minutes and had to move on to the next part of the plot. Disc 2 definitely felt like the second half of a massive game crammed down into 10-15 hours. Despite all of Disc 2’s issues, however, I was still hooked. The story was definitely doing something right when I still couldn’t wait to find out what happened next in spite of the plot being executed in one of the worst possible methods for a video game.

Xenogears definitely isn't perfect. The gameplay has aged a bit, the story was difficult to completely follow later on, and Disc 2 was really screwed up by development issues. In spite of all that, the story and characters still shined through and I found myself loving the game. I’d definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a story heavy RPG.

(This is my first thread, so hopefully I didn't screw anything up)
 
Ah yeah the Gazel Ministry. Ye olde space SEELE. Ironically enough (EVA 3.33 SPOILERS)
Rebuild SEELE suffers the same fate as the Gazel Ministry, having the plugs pulled on them
.

Disc 2 is pretty rough to get through. The first time through the story makes it tolerable but a second run is pretty rough since you know everything at that point. Would like to have seen what it would have been if they would have been able to get everything in.
 
The pseudo Christian Gnosticism and Freudian/Jungian angle really hooked me as a kid. The combo system was novel. The characters were great for the most part. The soundtrack was awesome. All in all, it was a great experience. I'm not sure how it's aged now, but nostalgia makes it a 10/10 in my book.
 
I think I'm one of the few people who liked the nature of the second disc. Most of the dungeons in Xenogears just aren't fun, so I was really grateful that I didn't have to run through another handful of them.
 
Imagine how crazy Disc 2 would have been if they had a bigger budget and were allowed to do all of that shit they alluded to in the text and Perfect Works.

I would have creamed myself watching
the citizens of Aveh turning into Wels
in real time instead of just being told about it
 
Imagine how crazy Disc 2 would have been if they had a bigger budget and were allowed to do all of that shit they alluded to in the text and Perfect Works.

I would have creamed myself watching
the citizens of Aveh turning into Wels
in real time instead of just being told about it

I would've liked to have fought some of those ancient battles they narrated, like that giant top shaped battle ship they showed in FMV. Shame id heard FF8 drained this game's budget.
 
Most of the dungeons in Xenogears just aren't fun

Tower of Babel jumping...

1385371447923_zps4e4a0519.gif
 
One of my all time favorite RPGs. The music, the epic storyline, great characters and the combo system was a lot of fun.

It's a shame what happened with disc 2 and there are flaws in the game for sure (tower of babel) but man it reaches for the stars and hits way way more then it misses.
 
Why did some people dislike this game's story again?

Most of it makes no sense or parts of it are literally just Eva episodes with the characters' names changed

When the plot finally stops trying to make enigmas out of enigmas, though, it becomes amazing
 
Why did some people dislike this game's story again?

I think it got convoluted at Disc 2. Summary after summary after summary killed the story flow that was nicely set by Disc 1. A really great story, just hoped that Square did fund the game more and gave it more time to complete.
 
One of the best stories ever told in gaming history... the game was ahead of it's time with it's story.

If you enjoyed Xenogears and loved it, then you will love Xenosaga even more specially Episode III with it's EPIC final showdowns with villains... characters... story and music.

You have to play the trilogy at any cost because they will offer you an experience like no others..... so sad new days JRPG doesn't offer stories like these :(
 
One of the best stories ever told in gaming history... the game was ahead of it's time with it's story.

If you enjoyed Xenogears and loved it, then you will love Xenosaga even more specially Episode III with it's EPIC final showdowns with villains... characters... story and music.

You have to play the trilogy at any cost because they will offer you an experience like no others..... so sad new days JRPG doesn't offer stories like these :(

Yeah, Xenosaga is hard to recommend individually (aside from XS3) but together the story is as grand and interesting as XG.
 
Reposting from the last LttP:

I feel like the game has an extremely intricate and complex plot that wasn't able to be fully realized, due to hardware, time, and financial constraints. I'm reading Perfect Works again, and some of the world building is phenomenal. The resistance against Solaris and The Day of Collapse, the Zeboim society and its close parallels with modern day culture, the fall of Zeboim, Abel's resistance against Cain, Cain and his 10000 year history, Ramsus and his extremely screwed up past... there is just so much there that doesn't really get proper exposition in the game. The Contact's incarnation as Kim is a great side story, for example, but I wish we got to see more of it, or learn more about the Zeboim society in general.

I had no idea Big Joe was a Zeboimian (is this the right term?) hero who cryogenically froze himself, that Ramsus took on someone else's identity in order to enter Jugend, or that Abel and the original Elhaym led what was essentially an opposing political party against Cain, for example.

Great game. It was massively ambitious in its storytelling and world building, and it shows. I wish the Saga games had been created as the original Episodes I-VI as intended. As far as I know, by the time Xenosaga Ep. I was complete, that was still the plan. Seeing as how Gears is Episode V, and there's still so much untapped potential in its universe, I... really... wish that happened.
 
I just finished a re-play last night myself and I agree with much of what Sol just said. It's by far my favorite story in the entirely of the video game medium and it's an absolute travesty that the budget ran low and they didn't get to provide disc 2 the same treatment as the first. Then you see upon completion of the game that it is Episode V and feel further cheated from the majesty of the story. When Xenosaga was announced I believed it would provide episodes I-IV and was ecstatic only to be let down when the plug was pulled early once more and they had to go in another direction. If there was ever a game deserving a remake, it's this one to get the story full fleshed out properly. Then if that sold well enough, make episodes I-IV and I want to say there's an episode VI mentioned in Perfect Works. A man can dream. Speaking of, I need to read Perfect Works again now that I'm fresh off a play through. Glad you finally got the chance to play this OP, it's truly a gem despite some faults.
 
I wish the Saga games had been created as the original Episodes I-VI as intended. As far as I know, by the time Xenosaga Ep. I was complete, that was still the plan.

That was NEVER the plan. All along, Xenosaga was meant to be a reboot of the Xenogears story. It was a way for Takahashi to tell his story the way he wanted to, without the meddling that happened during Xenogears. Obviously, that never happened, but Xenosaga was never meant to be remakes of the Xenogears episodes.

I thought it was a hoax?

Was it? I never did try it because by then I had put away my PS1 and Gameshark. I always thought it was real.
 
That was NEVER the plan. All along, Xenosaga was meant to be a reboot of the Xenogears story. It was a way for Takahashi to tell his story the way he wanted to, without the meddling that happened during Xenogears.
Isn't that exactly what I said?
 
One thing I have always found odd about the discussion of this game is that people always make a point of comparing it to Evangelion. Yeah, the game takes some elements from Evangelion, but it also takes elements from tons of other classic sci-fi movies. Grahf is obviously inspired by Star Wars. Soylent System is clearly from Soylent Green. Deus and the Zohar is inspired by HAL and the obelisk respectively from 2001. Hammer's entire story arc is a copy of the taxi driver from Total Recall. Even the part where he comes back as an evil cyborg tank! Bart's story shares a lot of properties with Dune. Maria and Seibzehn could be from any number of Giant Robot animes. This is more of a guess, but it wouldn't surprise me if parts of Fei's story and character design were inspired by the Highlander TV show.

The game is not an Evangelion knock-off. It is a sci-fi mashup.
 
Most of it makes no sense or parts of it are literally just Eva episodes with the characters' names changed

When the plot finally stops trying to make enigmas out of enigmas, though, it becomes amazing
This is one trope I dislike that eva set, make everything mysterious and explain it at x moment. The game was fully explained and made sense by the end though.

I think it got convoluted at Disc 2. Summary after summary after summary killed the story flow that was nicely set by Disc 1. A really great story, just hoped that Square did fund the game more and gave it more time to complete.
At that time I had no problem with it, and thought the chair scene was inspired by Evangelion.

No idea. It's my favorite story in a video game, bar none.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say Xenogears is tied with FFIX as my favorite game. I cannot get enough of those two games. :)
Yep, it and FFIX are my favorite JRPGs of both the PS1 and all time. Then again, I haven't played that many JRPGs past the PS2.

For me, Xenogears was Evangelion done right. Had the right elements and was not a complete depressing bore. I should replay it one day and then read complete works. Also, the fact that we never got all the episodes, and that Xenogears was never truly realized always saddens me. Guess we will see reoccurring elements in Xenoblade Chronicles X.
 
Nice OP. This game is one of my favorites but it also infuriates me to no end. I can't stand that bitch Myang. She has a fight where you face her after fighting the Elements I think and have no chance to heal. That, and the infamous Babel Tower...

Still love the game though.



DEAD.
 
The difference between EVA and Xenogears is that in spite of being fairly cryptic during a long portion of the anime/game(ofc intentional, the enigmatic conversations are just a way to trigger intrigue on the part of the viewer/player) is that Xenogears actually told a story that made sense and lived up to it's scope and ambition imo.

Besides.. I don't know why people keep comparing both. Just because they have mechs???? They have completely different objectives and tackle different themes.

I do agree with the OP that it could have been more well executed.
I think Xenosaga fixes a lot of the pacing issues from Xenogears and even though they still had to cram a couple of cancelled episodes worth of backstory into the third's game datalog, the overall plot still works really well and manages to give the right amount of info at all times. Overall I actually like the Xenosaga trilogy package more than Xenogears, nevertheless that doesn't erase the fact that Xenogears is a huge accomplishment in the gaming medium for it's time imo(and even today I would argue that there are few games that can even compete with the story in it).
 
Epic game on PSX, for sure. Played it via ePSXe and finished it there.
Second disc was more of a book than a game but the story itself was definitely epic and the gameplay was really something new. I enjoyed this game a lot and will never forget Fei.
 
One thing I have always found odd about the discussion of this game is that people always make a point of comparing it to Evangelion. Yeah, the game takes some elements from Evangelion, but it also takes elements from tons of other classic sci-fi movies. Grahf is obviously inspired by Star Wars. Soylent System is clearly from Soylent Green. Deus and the Zohar is inspired by HAL and the obelisk respectively from 2001. Hammer's entire story arc is a copy of the taxi driver from Total Recall. Even the part where he comes back as an evil cyborg tank! Bart's story shares a lot of properties with Dune. Maria and Seibzehn could be from any number of Giant Robot animes. This is more of a guess, but it wouldn't surprise me if parts of Fei's story and character design were inspired by the Highlander TV show.

The game is not an Evangelion knock-off. It is a sci-fi mashup.

I agree with you.
 
What the game did with the whole lost history angle was really interesting. In another game I could see something like Zeboim being the crux of it but in XG the rabbit hole went much much deeper.

That was NEVER the plan. All along, Xenosaga was meant to be a reboot of the Xenogears story. It was a way for Takahashi to tell his story the way he wanted to, without the meddling that happened during Xenogears. Obviously, that never happened, but Xenosaga was never meant to be remakes of the Xenogears episodes.

It's ironic that Xenogears' ambition ended up being much better realized that the whole Xenosaga series. Even though I know Ep.1 was cut way down, I think the development of Ep.2 was the rude awakening that the series was going to be a fraction of what it was meant to be.
 
Absolutely one of my favorite games of all time. I'd probably replay it more often if it weren't for the snail's pace of the text, and like many, I'd love to see what they could have done if the budget hadn't essentially killed the second disc. But the music, the story and the overall aesthetic are still heavy influences on my own work to this day. I'll never not love this title.
 
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