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Lying to kids about Santa

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Fusebox said:
Little kids believing in Santa is not the same as fundamentalist Christianity, that's some twisted logic right there.
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No, it's not. But laughing at both things happens for the same reasons, and I find it hypocritical to say otherwise.

The difference is he laughed at Santa believers when he was eight. And yet people are calling him a douchebag for it, when he was EIGHT.
 
I would not. I was traumatized when my teacher told me (in front of the whole class no less) that Santa wasn't real. It is a moment from my childhood which I can recall precisely because it was so embarrassing and I was heartbroken.

I would just tell my kid that some kids like to believe in Santa, but he is just a representation of the spirit of giving and not an actual person. It is fine to like Santa and participate in Santa traditions, but do so realizing that he isn't there to reciprocate, it's your family who cares about you.
 
Secret Fawful said:
No, it's not. But laughing at both things happens for the same reasons, and I find it hypocritical to say otherwise.
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Laughing at little children for believing in Santa is some narrow-minded, mean-spirited shit.

Secret Fawful said:
The difference is he laughed at Santa believers when he was eight. And yet people are calling him a douchebag for it, when he was EIGHT.
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That's not what he said. He said he laughed at eight year olds, he gave no clue as to his age, but regardless of that, it is actually possible for kids to act like douchebags.
 
SwiftSketcher said:
you sound like a blast.

I bet you don't watch movies either and all that other make believe nonsense.
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I just don't like being hypocritical about my stance on religion. I don't believe in a god or any religion in particular, so I shouldn't cherry pick the things I might like about it and experience/celebrate them.
 
It's a harmless bit of fantasy that adds warmth and magic to the festive season. I love it and it brings up sweet memories of my childhood. Don't see anything wrong with it.

I can't stand those ubercorrect parents who can't fake it for their children because they want them to grow up in the 'real world' or some bullshit.
 
Gustav said:
I just don't like being hypocritical about my stance on religion. I don't believe in a god or any religion in particular, so I shouldn't cherry pick the things I might like about it and experience/celebrate them.
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Santa_in_Sleigh.png


Religion.
 
Secret Fawful said:
No, he said he laughed at them for believing a thing that isn't true.

It's the same as, and I will regret bringing this in, laughing at extreme fundamentalist Christians.
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Secret Fawful said:
No, it's not. But laughing at both things happens for the same reasons, and I find it hypocritical to say otherwise.

The difference is he laughed at Santa believers when he was eight. And yet people are calling him a douchebag for it, when he was EIGHT.
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I don't think you have any perspective on how he or you are coming off right now.
 
Gustav said:
I just don't like being hypocritical about my stance on religion. I don't believe in a god or any religion in particular, so I shouldn't cherry pick the things I might like about it and experience/celebrate them.
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What do you gain from holding that view so strongly?

You can compromise your view that you hold so strictly at no loss to you for the sake of having a bit of fun, or you can continue being miserable.
 
Takuhi said:
Just let other people tell your kid about Santa, and when he or she asks you, say "Well what do you think?" That always works on kids.
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That's what I did when I had to teach religion. I taught it was something 'some people' believe and when they asked me, I turned it back on them. I'd say a comfortable majority of my class now don't believe something if there is no evidence to back it up. The constant 'why' is annoying, but I'd rather that then them jump to conclusions without going about things the right way.

I expect I'll have to dodge the Santa question a few times tomorrow. The clever ones will realise that they went shopping for my present and then realise that this is what their parents do for them. Win.
 
Artemisia said:
What do you gain from holding that view so strongly?

You can compromise your view that you hold so strictly at no loss to you for the sake of having a bit of fun, or you can continue being miserable.
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Please understand that I am not miserable. My life is a-ok. People can life a happy life without explicitly celebrating Christmas. I have fun. I have hobbies. Everything is ok.

Thank you for being concerned for my well being, though.
 
Fusebox said:
That's not what he said. He said he laughed at eight year olds, he gave no clue as to his age, but regardless of that, it is actually possible for kids to act like douchebags.
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That's how I read it in the context of his post.

I admit I wish I could have done Christmas, and I like Christmas. When I was a kid, I had to fake being happy with things the way they were because I figured my Dad must be right. I still do it. But out of everything wrong about what he did, I will maintain he was absolutely right about not lying to kids about Santa. Treating Santa like a legend and fairy tale is something I see no problem with. Sure, I'm probably a product of my stilted upbringing.

But I care more about honesty than preserving an illusion. Saying things like "you are meaningless, the universe doesn't care" etc. aren't the same, because those aren't knowable truths. Those are just jaded opinions. EVERYONE knows Santa is not real. Yet, when I was a kid, even though I knew something was a fairy tale, I could still find some magic in it. It was just a different kind of magic that didn't involve me being fooled for years.
 
Secret Fawful said:
No, it's not. But laughing at both things happens for the same reasons, and I find it hypocritical to say otherwise.

The difference is he laughed at Santa believers when he was eight. And yet people are calling him a douchebag for it, when he was EIGHT.
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Perhaps because he was a douchebag when he was eight.

Someone who goes around laughing at christians for taking comfort in make believe is a douchebag too. Let them have their fantasy if it makes them happy. Only when they're being hateful, condescending, bigoted, self-rightous, or preachy then it becomes open game.
 
Gustav said:
I just don't like being hypocritical about my stance on religion. I don't believe in a god or any religion in particular, so I shouldn't cherry pick the things I might like about it and experience/celebrate them.
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But it just sounds alienating, you know? Like, would you not go to a Christmas party to just chill and hang with friends on a festive occasion? Will you not attend a family member's or close friends wedding? You're missing the whole point here, and that it's about the people. Stepping into a temple or wedding doesn't suddenly make you a devout religious person. What kind of extreme thought is this? If I were athiest, Catholic, Jewish, I would have no problem attending whichever religious/activity/holiday event with some friend or family member. I'm secure with myself and thoughts. What is this insecurity and stonewalled will against so many events?

I mean you see where I'm coming from here right, based off your responses?
 
Gustav said:
Please understand that I am not miserable. My life is a-ok. People can life a happy life without explicitly celebrating Christmas. I have fun. I have hobbies. Everything is ok.

Thank you for being concerned for my well being, though.
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I know that.

I just don't know why someone would purposely avoid celebrating holidays like christmas, and even condescend to people who do just because they hold so and so views, even though celebrating the holiday would be of no detriment.

Isn't that fundamentalism in its own way?
 
You guys should really relax about the' laughing at the Santa believers thing'. It's common behavior in kids to laugh at other kids who don't know better. It certainly is not the nicest behavior, but it is nothing particularly evil either. I bet all of you have done it when one of your friends spouted incorrect bullshit.
 
Gustav said:
You guys should really relax about the' laughing at the Santa believers thing'. It's common behavior in kids to laugh at other kids who don't know better. It certainly is not the nicest behavior, but it is nothing particularly evil either. I bet all of you have done it when one of your friends spouted incorrect bullshit.
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I remember laughing at kids who thought Wrestling was fake.
 
Gustav said:
I just don't like being hypocritical about my stance on religion. I don't believe in a god or any religion in particular, so I shouldn't cherry pick the things I might like about it and experience/celebrate them.
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But Christmas is no longer a religious holiday. It hasn't been in ages. You can celebrate Christmas in the form of Santa and a tree and not be hypocritical about your stance on religion. Santa has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
 
alphaNoid said:
It does in my family but Christmas brings the magic. I won't bother trying to describe Christmas magic because its clear you've never experienced it and you seem very close minded about the holiday in general.

I wish you could related, it's amazing.
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Please convince my family to celebrate Christmas. :(

The curse of being born into a Jewish family.
 
SwiftSketcher said:
But it just sounds alienating, you know? Like, would you not go to a Christmas party to just chill and hang with friends on a festive occasion? Will you not attend a family member's or close friends wedding? You're missing the whole point here, and that it's about the people. Stepping into a temple or wedding doesn't suddenly make you a devout religious person. What kind of extreme thought is this? If I were athiest, Catholic, Jewish, I would have no problem attending whichever religious/activity/holiday event with some friend or family member. I'm secure with myself and thoughts. What is this insecurity and stonewalled will against so many events?

I mean you see where I'm coming from here right, based off your responses?
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1. I would go to a Christmas party.
2. I will not attend a wedding in or at a church.
3. I don't think I will turn Christian. Let me try an analogy: If I say I disapprove of the welfare state but still collect welfare, I would be deemed a hypocrit with low integrity.
4 it's no insecurity, it's just a decision I made for myself.
 
I studied pedagogy and their is nothing wrong about telling fairy tales to your kids. It is part of growing up. There is not a single study, that has the result, that this has bad influence on your kids.

I keep the magic alive for my nieces, I tell them lots of fairy tales, tell the Christmas child (our Santa) is real and try to make them believe in magic in our world. It does them no harm, later they will find out, that it may be not true, but until then, they will have a living imagination and are looking for stuff beyond reality.

I even learned some magic tricks for them or use other stuff to make them feel, that there is something else. Each time I let their favorite toy disappear or give them "magic" presents they are totally amazed. Later they will of course find out, that it was all a trick, but until then, it makes them happy.

And yes, sometimes in the woods we are looking out for gnomes or dwarfs, but I don't think that's silly or a bad thing.
 
Gustav said:
1. I would go to a Christmas party.
2. I will not attend a wedding in or at a church.
3. I don't think I will turn Christian. Let me try an analogy: If I say I disapprove of the welfare state but still collect welfare, I would be deemed a hypocrit with low integrity.
4 it's no insecurity, it's just a decision I made for myself.
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What? If your best friend that you've known for ages got married at a Church and asked you to be his best man, not only would you turn him down on being the best man but you'd refuse to go? That's pretty damn weird.....
 
Marty Chinn said:
What? If your best friend that you've known for ages got married at a Church and asked you to be his best man, not only would you turn him down on being the best man but you'd refuse to go?
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Yes. I would turn him down. Would you go to a wedding at a Scientology church if you we're invited?
 
Gustav said:
Yes. I would turn him down. Would you go to a wedding at a Scientology church if you we're invited?
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If my best friend asked me to be his best man, I damn right would go and I'm not religious at all. Why? Because he's my friend and not just my friend, my best friend.
 
My mom told me there was no real Santa Claus. Got in trouble for pointing this out to other kids in school.

Never believed he exist, still believed in Santa though.

It's a complicated thought process that can only be understood by pre-teens.
 
Marty Chinn said:
Is Hanukkah really that different from how many people celebrate Christmas? Don't people gather with family and friends and exchange gifts?
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It is fairly different. No awesome decorations, no awesome TV specials or songs, no element of "magic."

My family maybe got together for a dinner, but not for presents under the Christmas tree. :(

Friends don't really exchange gifts.

Hanukkah just doesn't have the cultural awesomeness that Christmas has.
 
What's ironic is that I'm both listening to Christmas music and watching a Christmas movie while reading this thread. I wonder how many ignore lists I'm on now, though.
 
I never once believed Santa was real. My parents bought me presents and made it clear that they bought them. Nonetheless, I always really enjoyed Christmas. I had a lot of fun. It was still a "magical" time. I always had fun watching Santa movies, too. So I personally don't see the point in trying to make your children believe Santa is real. But whatever floats your boat. It's not like it really matters either way.
 
Gustav said:
I think having to take holidays at the and of December is just as bad in that regard. That I even have no choice in.
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Oh noez, a holiday where I dont have to go to work, and watch people be all happy and shit. Shit is awful!

What's up with your view of the world man.

I think the OP is also pretty dumb for wanting to deny his kids the happiness of Christmas. I've only really grew up with Sinterklaas but its pretty much the same thing. The anticipation leading up to it is great and then when you find out it's nonsense you don't blame your parents.. you think lol ofcourse it was those awesome mom and dad who gave me all those gifts and went through all the trouble..
 
I remember I actually lost a friend because I said I wouldn't tell my kid Santa was real. I believe the last thing he called me was "monster". I just can't believe how angry people get over this.
 
MMaRsu said:
Oh noez, a holiday where I dont have to go to work, and watch people be all happy and shit. Shit is awful!

What's up with your view of the world man
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You are really misunderstanding the issue at hand. It's not about happy people, it's about religion controlling my holidays.
 
Gustav said:
You are really misunderstanding the issue at hand. It's not about happy people, it's about religion controlling my holidays.
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People and traditions are controlling your holidays. And what are you suggesting to do about it anyway? We all have Christmas and Easter. What's the big deal?
 
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