Secret Fawful
Member
Let's meet everyone halfway and make Santa a stork.
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Lying to kids about Santa
- Thread starter IHaveCandy
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Let's meet everyone halfway and make Santa a stork.
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday are named for Norse gods.
Saturday is named after Saturn, the Roman name for the Titan Cronus, not the planet. Which is also named after the very same Titan.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Well a lot of people do just fine without celebrating Christmas. Maybe a lot of people around the world and in the past didn't feel the need to wait for a holiday to spend time with their family together?
You should tell your kid not to go around telling everyone that God isn't real so that he isn't extremely annoying to the other kids.
Please give examples for the last sentence you wrote.
To the Dogma thing: yes, you are actually right. Dogma is indeed of religious origin. The difference is that the context I use the word in (and actually live my, as you call them dogmatic, opinions) is not in the Christian context. I do not presently opinion as fact or god given truth. It is merely a rule set I try to live by, without a moralistic approach. No different than people on a diet.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Well, that's not entirely true. The planets were believed to be gods by many. The order of events were
People believe in Gods
People find planets
People believe planets are Gods
People name days after planets/Gods
People realize planets are just planets
People keep name of days after planets.
Marty Chinn
Member
But you know what's nice about Christmas? The country pretty much shuts down for the most part allowing people to get together. Sure it would be nice to spend time together all the time, but it's not feasible. Christmas is one of the few times of the year where it's much easier to do so because most people are off. Most people have to work ya know....
Devolution
Member
Still religious in origin. The point stands.
My mom gives me gifts from Satan. I hope its because she's a poor speller.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I would tell my kid to not go around saying God isn't real because that is an unknowable fact. Id tell him that he should be confident to express his doubt in religion's claims, especially if brought up in conversation. But I would tell him it's improper to simply assert your views onto people who are not asking for them.
Secret Fawful
Member
IHaveCandy
Banned
Ofcourse it's feasible. Not as convenient doesn't make it not feasible.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Fair enough if you don't want to celebrate Christmas, but not doing so because of religion is really fucking weird to me. And not everyone has family that lives near each other and can easily see each other 24/7.
It's not all about family, the lead up to Christmas and excitement, even after you find out Santa isn't real, was amazing.
Some people in here sound really annoyed that others like to be happy at a certain part of the year.
There is no point. You actually realize I say and write the word Christmas, right? Just like I use the word Tuesday. It's not like I'm on total boycott and try to eliminate it from the world.
Also, the whole aforementioned days of the week/name of the planets thing.
Devolution
Member
There is a point, no matter how far removed from their religious roots you keep saying "still religious in origin." So what else do you remove from your life? It's a valid assertion to your own attitude towards the religious foundations of many things.
Messofanego
Banned
If I was a Christian, I would totally do this to have a "told you so" smartass for a kid.
You are reaching. I would say disappointing a friend and not going to his wedding is more of an inconvenience than saying bluesday instead of Tuesday. Also saying things that have religious origin does not mean I am partaking in a religious ritual/tradition.
IHaveCandy
Banned
This whole discussion was just about lying about Santa. I don't really see a problem with celebrating Christmas without Santa. At this point, I do think Christmas is ridiculously commercialized. I think most kids just focus on the presents. The way I grew up, I only got really nice things during Christmas. So when Christmas came, I was going nuts. And if I didn't get something really nice, I was pissed. If/when I have a family, I'd want to get my kids nice things whenever I felt they should have them and deserved them instead of waiting for Christmas. I wouldn't mind getting them something for Christmas, but I wouldn't want to build Christmas as "the time you get something good". I'd rather Christmas be about spending more time with your family, if anything.
I remove everything that is ritualistic in its form and stems from any religion.
notworksafe
Member
It is fairly different. No awesome decorations, no awesome TV specials or songs, no element of "magic."
My family maybe got together for a dinner, but not for presents under the Christmas tree.
Friends don't really exchange gifts.
Hanukkah just doesn't have the cultural awesomeness that Christmas has.
Your family is doing it wrong. We have tons of decorations all over the house and a large party with friends and family where everyone helps cook and generally has a blast.
There are also plenty of gifts given as well. Nothing wrong with the holiday at all, sounds like you just aren't putting in the effort to make it an event and give it "magic".
You don't have to partake in Christian rituals in order to celebrate Christmas. I'm an atheist and I celebrate it. I don't see why you don't think you can re-appropriate what you enjoy about Christian religious rituals (e.g. presents, seeing the extended family, have time set aside to spend with loved ones, and so forth) in a more secular context, similar to the way Christians re-appropriated many of the rituals in the modern celebration of Christmas from the religious traditions of other faiths. Sure, the tree has a religious origin. So what? I like the way it looks.
EdibleExplosives
Member
I was mainly replying to people saying that Christmas shouldn't be celebrated because of it's religious roots. Of course Christmas shouldn't just be about presents, I was always happy with what I got, whether it was a lot or not.
I thought family shouldn't need Christmas to be together?
The holiday of Christmas is intended to be exactly what it says on the tin: Christ's Mass.
By using the word you acknowledge this, but there's no hypocrisy in doing so because you're just acknowledging what the holiday you don't take part in is supposed to be. That's fine.
Tuesday, on the other hand, means Tyr's day. Do you acknowledge that Tuesday is Tyr's Day? If not then by your own logic you shouldn't be using the word, because you're acknowledging and validating the belief in the Norse gods. And the religion being dead apparently doesn't matter to you either.
Also, the Christmas party thing.
IHaveCandy
Banned
To me, the calender more follows outer space, than religion. Day, month, and year, all follow the order of bodies in outer space. The planets were just originally thought to be Gods. I think it's a pretty weak argument to say that somebody trying to extract all religion out of their lives can't use the given days of the week. Though I do think that trying to completely avoid all religion or things from religion is a cause not worth taking up. If you want to stay away from active religious practice, cool. But you've got to accept that parts of the worlds simply have their hands in religion. I certainly wouldn't keep my atheism to keep me from going to a friend's or family member's wedding.
The funny thing is, nobody in here ever claimed to be trying to remove all religious connotation from his life.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I don't get why you hate religion. Religion isn't the problem. Blind faith is the problem. There are things in religion that are perfectly fine. It's when you start telling people you know the unknowable and that you must believe it without question or else that things go wrong.
I acknowledge that the day is named after Tyr, I don't acknowledge it's his day. Can we please stop this idiocy?
Necromanti
Member
Everything that humans perform is steeped in culture and ritual.
I don't hate religion. It's just not for me.
Messofanego
Banned
That's kind of one of the main problems of individualism in Western cultures. If the family unit is that bad, maybe a few holidays strung around the year isn't so bad where they're forced some family time. In my asian culture, family is as tight-knit as you can be throughout the year, and we don't send off our elderly into care homes. Probably for another thread, though.
Devolution
Member
You fucking monster when she discovers that dude isn't real her whole world will be shattered.
(she's adorable <3)
Sanky Panky
Banned
On that note, fuck my kids going to Disney or watching cartoons. God forbid they think ducks actually can talk.
In my house, we only watch Oz on Saturday mornings (not talking about the Wizard either).
In my house, we only watch Oz on Saturday mornings (not talking about the Wizard either).
Messofanego
Banned
IHaveCandy
Banned
Why are people pretending there is a binary choice between either telling your kids Santa is real, or trying to stomp on every possible little dream your kid might have and trying to make him to be depressed about life?
vincent vega
Member
I don't see the big deal. Are people against this afraid their kids will grow up ignorant?
Marty Chinn
Member
No it's not feasible. Getting together all the time is not feasible. Getting together on occaision is. People have work, kids, schedules, live far away, limited vacation, and so forth. This makes it not feasible. On occaision, sure but not all the time. Christmas and Thanksgiving are great cuz the country shuts down and schedules align as a result.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Yep.
What do people think of when they hear or see the word "Christmas"?
Even if you're a christian, you'll more than likely think of this jolly fellow:
Santa Claus himself is pretty much the product of commercial interests and L. Frank Baum's book The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus which was published in 1902.
Then you got mutual gift giving, "christmas food", and such which have weak if not non-existent religious roots - but strengthen the consumer industry this time a year.
It's undeniable that the whole modern celebration of Christmas only really has a religious flavor if you're already religious. If you're not religious, you are celebrating a secular holiday - one with religious, pagan and christian, roots!
IHaveCandy
Banned
It's feasible to do it occasionally without some commercial holiday is what I'm saying.
Secret Fawful
Member
I don't want half of my family around anyway.
You could just say Santa Claus is a guy dressing up to celebrate a christian day when people give each other presents.
Or you could also shut the fuck up and let them enjoy it while they can because we all know you enjoyed it when you were a kid and you didnt cry yourself to sleep when you found it he was not real.
Or you could also shut the fuck up and let them enjoy it while they can because we all know you enjoyed it when you were a kid and you didnt cry yourself to sleep when you found it he was not real.
Marty Chinn
Member
But schedules align easier when everything shuts down at the same time. And who is to say that people don't see each other on other days? They still see each other during the holidays, but for many it's the easiest time to make it happen because of the country shutting down.
i think if your christian it really messes with a kids brain.
cuz your told God and Santa are real your whole life, both have magical powers and help people, and then later in life your told Santa is not real but your still expected to believe that God is real.
i think it would make them start thinking more about the world and what people tell them.
Santa is too ingrained in our culture. i would feel bad that my kid would be left out from all the other kids talking about Santa and all that. Until people start killing each other over proving Santas existence and declaring holy wars of vengeance i dont think its that big of a deal.
another point is that, christmas and christianity are so intertwined its hard to separate them.
but in modern times, christmas has become so detached from its religious roots you dont have to be christian to celebrate it, or be religious at all really. so in a way its kinda separate but not really. the gap is widening.
so its like, you gotta have the religion talk with them as well and explain Jesus and all that.
i think its funny that christmas is just this amalgamation of old pagan traditions and other shit coupled with the modern tradition of buying iphones and laptops and christians just kinda decided the entire thing was their idea and that they own it all.
theres a lot to think about here, but really your kid wont give a fuck or even really understand untill their at least 10 or older, so worry about it then i guess.
cuz your told God and Santa are real your whole life, both have magical powers and help people, and then later in life your told Santa is not real but your still expected to believe that God is real.
i think it would make them start thinking more about the world and what people tell them.
Santa is too ingrained in our culture. i would feel bad that my kid would be left out from all the other kids talking about Santa and all that. Until people start killing each other over proving Santas existence and declaring holy wars of vengeance i dont think its that big of a deal.
another point is that, christmas and christianity are so intertwined its hard to separate them.
but in modern times, christmas has become so detached from its religious roots you dont have to be christian to celebrate it, or be religious at all really. so in a way its kinda separate but not really. the gap is widening.
so its like, you gotta have the religion talk with them as well and explain Jesus and all that.
i think its funny that christmas is just this amalgamation of old pagan traditions and other shit coupled with the modern tradition of buying iphones and laptops and christians just kinda decided the entire thing was their idea and that they own it all.
theres a lot to think about here, but really your kid wont give a fuck or even really understand untill their at least 10 or older, so worry about it then i guess.
User 100115
Banned
I told my kids Santa isn't real fairly young, I guess? My daughter is still in the dark, but her brothers both know and LOVE setting up 'Santa' for her on Christmas.
I see it as the same as this: My kids also named their stuffed animals and occasionally pretend they are living creatures. I play along. Same goes for Santa. I played along yeah. I am not going to rip the bear out of their arms and lecture them on how it's just a stuffed animal, after all.
I see it as the same as this: My kids also named their stuffed animals and occasionally pretend they are living creatures. I play along. Same goes for Santa. I played along yeah. I am not going to rip the bear out of their arms and lecture them on how it's just a stuffed animal, after all.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Seeing as this is now a somewhat general christmas discussion:
Anyone else interested in, like, celebrating christmas after christmas?
So that you can take advantage of all teh post-christmas sales while still enjoy the festivities and general atmosphere (if you can get enough people to follow your lead)?
Anyone else interested in, like, celebrating christmas after christmas?
So that you can take advantage of all teh post-christmas sales while still enjoy the festivities and general atmosphere (if you can get enough people to follow your lead)?
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