Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
Lol you mean Trudy is going to leave him. He's fantasizing about leaving Trudy, he may even be planning it. But she's going to beat him to it.
Pete Campbell will always lose.
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Mad Men - Season 5 - Sundays on AMC
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Lol you mean Trudy is going to leave him. He's fantasizing about leaving Trudy, he may even be planning it. But she's going to beat him to it.
Pete Campbell will always lose.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Trudy needs to unload an Uzi into Pete's chest right there in the living room.
Fatalah
Member
What was the legal loophole Matt Weiner mentioned in the Inside the Actor's Studio interview? Something about Mad Men being a historical piece to they're protected?
Awesome Animals
Member
WOW! That episode blew my mind.
Basileus777
Member
That NPR review brings up a few things that bothered me as well. I don't really find Roger's actions in this episode to be very plausible. This is the guy who knows Joan intimately, barges into her office all the time to ask inappropriate things, and he lets this happen without ever even speaking to her about it? He takes Pete's word that she just wants a big enough reward and she's willing? It's a good episode, but it felt like I could see the plot bending and twisting people into acting the way Weiner needed them to.
Not to mention that the Joan/Jaguar parallel was so obvious that it kind of ruined the suspension of disbelief (for me). Amazing episode marred by some artistic compromise for convenience.
Trent Strong
Banned
Oh, snap. From the NPR review:
"For me, Megan Draper is an example of a problem that's not uncommon on long-running dramas, where the writers become fascinated with writing for someone and abruptly expect the audience to be deeply invested in that person, simply because the audience cares about the show and the show puts the person on the screen all the time.... She seems to behave, most of all, in whatever way suits the theme of the week's episode."
Isn't that just Megan's character though? She's young and married to someone that doesn't have anything in common with her. She's trying to act the way Don expects her to act while trying to live her own life at the same time.
I sort of bought Roger's reaction because of what you said about Pete. He totally twisted his initial meeting with Joan. Maybe Roger just didn't want to get in her way and could understand her wanting to support their baby (knowing that he can't outright support Joan and the kid in public or whatever).
I guess I am a little conflicted, though. Looking back, it seems like Roger could have at least talked to her and protested the idea in private.
Basileus777
Member
Earlier this season Joan turned down Roger's offer of support for their kid. You don't think he would react to Joan all of a sudden needing money so desperately that she's willing to sleep with a stranger? Maybe if they had talked and Joan had BSed him into silence I could buy it, but his completely disinterest and inaction felt way out of character. This is the type of situation where I would expect Roger to go right into her office and ask what the hell is going on.
If Joan had told him she wanted to do this, sure. But Roger knows Pete is a self-serving scumbag, I can't see him taking Pete's word on this.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
I don't think the NPR review is referring to just her character but rather how the character is used blatantly to serve the theme of the week rather than her develop in a natural way.
Perhaps that could be said about every character in the show, especially this season where the themes are a bit louder. The exception I would make in her case is that her base character isn't quite interesting enough to warrant the screentime she's getting.
I think it's more pronounced with Betty since she doesn't have much of an arc that actually engages the rest of the series. That way her character this season has served as more of an instrument, rather than organically developing with other characters/plots.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Can't say I feel the same. I thought Betty was a terrific character in the previous seasons, and far more interesting and relevant even than Megan.
I thought we were talking exclusively about this season.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Ah in that case, I completely agree about Betty.
AgentOtaku
Member
Man
fucking Pete
Once again dropping the line "Your dressed for bed at dinner time" (or whatever) ...I just want something very bad to happen to this man, but understand his existence. Also, feel bad for the actor and DAT hairline
Fantastic episode though and glad to see Peggy finally move on as, IMHO, her character sort of hit a wall.
fucking Pete
Once again dropping the line "Your dressed for bed at dinner time" (or whatever) ...I just want something very bad to happen to this man, but understand his existence. Also, feel bad for the actor and DAT hairline
Fantastic episode though and glad to see Peggy finally move on as, IMHO, her character sort of hit a wall.
The Chosen One
Member
I forgot Betty was still a part of the show..
...and yes, Roger's non-reaction also bothered me. I also kept waiting for Roger to have at least one conversation to Joan, but it never happened. So that definitely felt out of character and was something I immediately noticed.
My wife cried when Peggy said goodbye to Don, but I was thinking "about time".
...and yes, Roger's non-reaction also bothered me. I also kept waiting for Roger to have at least one conversation to Joan, but it never happened. So that definitely felt out of character and was something I immediately noticed.
My wife cried when Peggy said goodbye to Don, but I was thinking "about time".
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Pretty much. Throwing money at her face was fucked up on a number of levels. It's also interesting how Don was as sensitive as he was about Joan prostituting herself for the company, but treated Peggy's talents as if she were a mere prostitute - from indiscriminately throwing cash at her face to then thinking that she was only threatening to leave the company because she wasn't being paid enough.
While this juxaposition was enjoyable, it kind of soured The Suitcase for me. Don didn't understand Peggy at all in the end, and I don't know whether that sits right with me given how the characters developed.
BertramCooper
Banned
The main reason Don is so harsh on Peggy is because he sees her as an extension of himself.
The events of The Suitcase strengthened their personal bond, no doubt. But Don cannot seem to distinguish between his personal and professional relationships with Peggy, so he continues to mistreat her at work because he's complacent.
Even though their personal relationship was deeper than ever, their professional relationship was beyond repair. Peggy could see this; Don couldn't.
/fanwank
Cornballer
Member
- Poniewozik @ Time.com: Mad Men Character Study - Cleopatra Joan
- Tim Goodman's review at THR
EDIT:
- Vanity Fair: The 5% Solution
- Tim Goodman's review at THR
EDIT:
- Vanity Fair: The 5% Solution
Cornballer
Member
- Tom & Lorenzo: Mad Style: The Other Woman
Much more via the link.There were other aspects to the story, but for us (and we think, for just about every other viewer), this episode was entirely about Peggy and Joan. Megan had an arc in this episode as well, but it was the weakest of the three and the costuming tended to reflect it.
This is Peggys hard at work sweater, making it a particularly good choice for this scene, which demonstrates that shes working her ass off but not getting the kind of perqs normally thrown at male creatives on a big account. Golden yellow has always been her career color, going all the way back to Season One, and she wore this sweater in several scenes this season depicting how hard she works, most notably when she stayed late in the office while Megan went off to an audition.
Roger's handling of the situation/his lack of protestation are the episode's strongest setback and remain my major misgivings regarding it.
Damn.. sometimes im amazed at the things people catch and the details.. Im going to be one sad SOB when this show is done.
Basileus777
Member
Weiner probably wanted the focus to be on Joan and Don and felt that having having Roger involved would distract from that. But his reactions just didn't feel right, and it wasn't just Roger, even Cooper seemed a bit too blase about it considering he's been shown to respect Joan in the past.
Agreed. I mean, the man had no qualms to recommend Joan stay away from Roger because "[she] could do much better," but is now somehow comfortable with the idea of whoring her out to potential clients? Eh.
Basileus777
Member
He does tell Pete to make sure she has the option of refusing, but well, he should be well aware that Pete of all people is going to do anything he can to convince Joan to go through with this. Only Lane actually approaches Joan about this (and only to save his own ass), I find it hard to believe that everyone else would just stand back and let Pete handle everything. Even Don just broods about it until it's presented to him as a done deal.
Well they were all shocked that this was even an option. Plus how do you approach someone and question them about something like that? Its not like its a regular conversation. So you get Pete. None of the other partners would even think of doing this. he will go and do whatever is required.
Lane did it in a roundabout way but it was to protect the firm and guide her with the best possible outcome. Don was i think the only one that straight up said that she shouldnt but im not sure if it was because he wanted to win the account with the pitch or because he didnt want her to stoop that low. He never was concerned about her financial situation. He was on cloud 9 thinking the pitch won it until he saw Joan come in, so it was a double whammy to him.
Roger was stunned by it. I think he was a bit out of character for not questioning Joan about it, but Roger knows that she did it for financial security which he was offering and now she really doesnt need him anymore. I think he just accepted it for what it was.
Pete was the master architect behind this. It was brilliant really. Anytime ive heard the phrase, more than you can afford, i usually took that as a F off. Everytime ive said it, ive meant it as a F off. Pete took it as a way in, a weakness and twisted it to mean that she was willing. So when it headed in that direction i was confused, yet.. made sense.
Bert.. well.. he was stunned, but really wanted Jaguar. I kinda still ignore him as he still quit last season.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I didn't find Roger's lack of reaction odd in the moment. And really, we may yet still a reaction from him abotu this. It's not like the issue's dead. Quite the contrary, this is going to keepplaying out for some time.
I expect Joan to give him grief over it at some point.
I expect Joan to give him grief over it at some point.
Awesome Animals
Member
You're right. Nothing changed the game at all in this past episode.
I thought his lack of protest was strange but didn't Joan warn him last week to "be careful or he won't even be considered a family friend" in regards to him trying to insert himself into her financial situation?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
The Jaguar people seem to be good sports about it. I guess they kinda have to be.
And as an aside, did this episode make anyone else think of Dudley Moore's Jaguar ad campaign from the movie Crazy People? I mean to mention it, but forgot.
"Jaguar: For Men Who'd Like Hand Jobs from Beautiful Women They Hardly Know."
And later, there are little forms to fill out at the dealership that they are giving away that read "Yes, I'd like a Hand Job."
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I thought he was saying "like in the last one."
It changes the situation, certainly. But IMO, not including a scene of them even discussing it is terribly disrespectful to their relationship/history. Like other critics have mentioned, the whole situation feels reverse engineered.
Rookje
Member
I'm not saying this last episode, but you have to admit some of the earlier episodes this season were a little too "Look @ Fat Betty + Megan."
Well, I think this episode is why they had the "Don't meddle in my life" conversation. It sets the stage.
If you're in Roger's shoes, you've just been told not to step in her way. If he reaches out to her about this (and he's made to believe that this is her decision), then he's breaching that trust.
What about that scene I referred to in ep. 10? That seems like it was put in there as a setup to the way things went down in ep. 11.
Ace Harding
Member
HA! I totally forgot about that movie. I haven't seen it in probably 20 years. Need to check it out again to see if it holds up.
This one is hilarious too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fIIqFpZdy0
Ultimadrago
Member
Thanks for the read, Cornballer. This is input I find extra, but entertaining to engage in after the events this past episode. In the interview Christina re-establishing Don and Joan's strong mutual respect and she even emphasizes on Roger not butting in on the "deal".
Leona Lewis
Banned
My English professor, a huge fan of the show, has taken to FB with some rather deep thoughts about this episode.
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