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Mad Men's Season 5 looking better

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AgentWhiskersX said:
Claiming the writers have run out of ideas and are just providing fan-service is reasonable?
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I don't agree with that or support it myself; I just meant to say I understand the general idea of not showing blind faith in a show's direction after a pretty divisive episode.

I think I worded it rather poorly though - so, my bad :P
 
Smision said:
Mad Men:
we know everything about Don now. He's not all that mysterious any more. He's getting married again--they'll have him celibate for a few episodes, then he'll cheat on her and it'll be played up like a big deal. She'll find out, get pissed. Betty was the imperfect one who we are learning to hate in retrospect; the new girl is probably gonna be "the one that got away." I feel like Betty is so one dimensional now. Peggy is clearly over her most interesting arc. The new company is obviously fine.
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Yup, you've totally got it figured out.

Matthew Weiner is sooo predictable, right?

Stop acting like you have any idea what's going to happen in Season 5, because you don't. At all.
 
This is just ridiculous (from Whitta's post)

AMC and Lionsgate are reportedly asking for to boost revenue/shave costs: integrating product placement into the series, cutting 2 minutes from each episode's running time in favor of more commercials and eliminating or reducing the status of two cast regulars. Weiner is resisting all of the above. “
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they already reduced cast going into season 4 by splitting from the main office. they wanna cut two more? the show would lose more character if it's just the Don and Peggy show.

if this was only a money issue, it'd be easier to work out. but crap like this can take ages to work out, if ever
 
Why is everyone focusing on the salary?

The network and Weiner already agreed to the salary. That's not what the dispute is about. People trying to speculate on whether the salary is too high or not are missing the fact that all concerned parties are A-OK with the salary.

The dispute is over the three things listed as being the dispute:
- Commercial product placement
- Shorter scripts
- Fewer leads

Edit: Oh, I see, the original article doesn't mention the hangups, that didn't come until half-way through the thread. I had read the more recent article before clicking on the thread. it all makes sense now.
 
AMC and Lionsgate are reportedly asking for to boost revenue/shave costs: integrating product placement into the series, cutting 2 minutes from each episode's running time in favor of more commercials and eliminating or reducing the status of two cast regulars. Weiner is resisting all of the above. “This is their storied franchise, and they want it shorter and cheaper, with fewer actors and more product integration,” an insider said.
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What the fuck. That's ridiculous.
 
They want fewer actors!?

and here I was hoping for the glorious return of Paul Kinsey!!!

EDIT: oh, and that Sal guy too I guess.
 
I think shaving off 2-3 minutes from the show for more commercials is a good compromise. They should do that. You still have like 42-45 minutes of the show or whatever it is.

AMC has been doing nothing but quality these last few years. They deserve to try to make some money since Mad Men hasn't been an explosion in ratings or anything. In order to continue Mad Men compromises have to be made. I wouldn't want any main characters to go, and I wouldn't want any forced product placement that you can easily tell, so put in more commercials if that's what it takes.

edit - I just realized AMC wants ALL of those things to be done. Haha fuck that. I thought it was something where Weiner could choose what to do or whatever.
 
Yeah, AMC probably thinks that Mad Men has done its job by building the brand's reputation (culminating in The Walking Dead ratings) and now actually wants to make money off it. I can't blame them, but it does worry me that they want to cut actors.
 
Vomiaouaf said:
A - Season average from last season was 2.3 million viewers which is roughly the same as HBO's Entourage and Hung.

B - Season 4 ratings = 25% over season 3 ratings.

C - It's a show that brought so much more than ratings to the network: glamor, which makes them a magnet for talent (see the other shows they started ever since).

D - In terms of critical reception, it has nowhere to go but forward. I can say that just as much as you can say the reverse, since it's based on nothing that can be proven.

A + B + C + D = You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, but you sure make attention-grabbing posts.
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Let's see:

A&B) Total viewers are meaningless, it's the demo that sets the ad rates and Mad Men's demo has always been mediocre. The metrics for premium channel ratings are different, plus shows like Hung are dirt cheap to make.

C) True, but that wouldn't be the case for another network, which is why I said that no other one would want it. Only AMC gets any cachet from Mad Men, since they're the first network that aired it. Any other net would just be seen as picking up scraps.

D) I'm not sure why so many people misinterpreted what I'm saying here. I think we can all agree that Mad Men is the most critically praised show since The Wire. It is pretty much universally loved by critics, therefore it has nowhere to go but down.
 
Treefingers said:
I would never watch the show again
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They would still be on the show. Just not a cast regular. Basically the same as last season - only they were being paid a flat rate for only appearing in half of the episodes.
 
- AMC Officially Greenlights Season 5 Of 'Mad Men' For Early 2012 Premiere
Deadline.com said:
Despite not having a deal with Mad Men creator-executive producer Matt Weiner yet, AMC is officially moving ahead with a fifth season of the Emmy-winning period drama, exercising its option with the series' producer Lionsgate TV. Because of the protracted negotiations with Weiner, referred to in a statement by AMC as "key non-cast negotiations," the premiere of Season 5 is being pushed from the summer to early next year. Here is the full statement. "AMC has officially authorized production of season 5 of Mad Men, triggering our option with Lionsgate. While we are getting a later start than in years past due to ongoing, key non-cast negotiations, Mad Men will be back for a fifth season in early 2012."
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Still some work to do w/ Weiner's deal. I wonder to what extent this is a bargaining tactic. They also confirm it'll be back in early 2012.


- Poniewozik with some additional thoughts on the Weiner - AMC negotiations
I'm not going to play arbitrator here not knowing the ins and outs of the negotiations, but I do hope AMC sees that it does no one any good to compromise the show that made the channel's brand for quality overnight. Yes, Mad Men still runs longer than most network dramas, but you know what? The length seems to be working for it. Two years ago, AMC compromised by letting the show run longer than an hour to fit extra ads, and I'd gladly have it run 90 minutes if that means letting the show tell the stories in the measured way that has made it great.
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2012 seems so far away :(

There's only 2 seasons left of the show anyways right? They should just let Wiener finish it off in peace.
 
dave is ok said:
They would still be on the show. Just not a cast regular. Basically the same as last season - only they were being paid a flat rate for only appearing in half of the episodes.
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Ah okay that sounds much better.

TBH now that I think about it their demands don't seem too bad. Product placement is a no-brainer. 2 minutes for ads, fine that's not too bad. And as long as it's reducing the status of and not eliminating 2 cast regulars I can live with that depending on who they are.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
"Mr. Weiner. Do you believe I know you well? Sign the Season 5 contract."
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:lol
hamchan said:
2012 seems so far away :(
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mj4foz.jpg
 
BertramCooper said:
Yup, you've totally got it figured out.

Matthew Weiner is sooo predictable, right?

Stop acting like you have any idea what's going to happen in Season 5, because you don't. At all.
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haha, salty about differing opinions on tv shows? ok.

mad men is not exactly filled with shocking unexpected twists and turns. It follows a pretty standard pattern. My waning interest is because the best plot point of the show
Don Draper's past
has been resolved. Fucking with it any more will cheapen it.
 
Smision said:
haha, salty about differing opinions on tv shows? ok.

mad men is not exactly filled with shocking unexpected twists and turns. It follows a pretty standard pattern. My waning interest is because the best plot point of the show
Don Draper's past
has been resolved. Fucking with it any more will cheapen it.
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First of all, Don's Draper's past was never the best plot point of the show.

And you act as if the show hasn't introduced any new or interesting plotlines since the first season. It's not like it's constantly relying on the same ones it had four years ago. If that were the case, you'd have more of a point.
 
BertramCooper said:
First of all, Don's Draper's past was never the best plot point of the show.

And you act as if the show hasn't introduced any new or interesting plotlines since the first season. It's not like it's constantly relying on the same ones it had four years ago. If that were the case, you'd have more of a point.
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I don't know, they've been spinning their wheels a lot. Same old ad firm, same old family life, same old --

HEY, WAIT.
 
- More from James Hibberd including AMC's perspective on the negotiations
But an insider countered that Weiner’s $30 million pricetag (and the show’s relatively modest ratings compared to, say, AMC’s The Walking Dead) makes some kind of concession necessary: Weiner’s salary would would make him the highest-paid showrunner in basic cable history. And even after cutting two minutes from the show, Mad Men would still have a longer weekly running time than most other basic cable dramas such as USA’s Burn Notice, FX’s Justified and TNT’s Southland. As for product placement, an insider points out the show has had “organic and seamless” integrated ads on the show since season one and denied that Weiner was ordered to cut two cast members — noting everybody is signed to return next season (though after that things are obviously less certain).

“The show cannot be held hostage” one insider said.

One executive at a rival network seemed to side with AMC: “Are we supposed to feel bad for his $30 million dollar payday? Don’t forget Mad Men will make about a dime in it’s afterlife.”
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I really hate this negotiation shit. I just want my favorite shows to premiere around the same time every year. This is an absurdly long delay. I hope whatever comes of these contracts doesn't affect the show quality.
 
Hmm so Wiener wants both his $30 million dollar paycheck and no compromises. I don't see how that would be possible, he needs to give a little too. I think the product placement and more ad times is a fair trade.
 
hamchan said:
Hmm so Wiener wants both his $30 million dollar paycheck and no compromises. I don't see how that would be possible, he needs to give a little too. I think the product placement and more ad times is a fair trade.
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I agree. The only thing I thought was a little too much was eliminating two of the cast members, but if all it is is downgrading their status from a series regular I have no problem with it. But from cornballers post above it seems like even that isn't a real point of negotiation for next season.
 
Yea, but what if they still haven't Nailed down Weiner?

Didn't they almost do S3 without him?

And if they do it without him, ending his era after S4's ending would be the WORST THING EVER.
 
SpeedingUptoStop said:
And if they do it without him, ending his era after S4's ending would be the WORST THING EVER.
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I hear something like this all the time. I really have to finish season 4 to see what's up with this finale.
 
hamchan said:
Hmm so Wiener wants both his $30 million dollar paycheck and no compromises. I don't see how that would be possible, he needs to give a little too. I think the product placement and more ad times is a fair trade.
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The two things are entirely unrelated, that's not how negotiations work in the industry.
 
BertramCooper said:
People have been saying that for about two years now and the show continues to get better.
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I would argue that S4 was a comedown from S3, but this is not the place.
 
Happy it's been confirmed, but yikes, that's too far away.

hamchan said:
They want fewer actors!?

and here I was hoping for the glorious return of Paul Kinsey!!!

EDIT: oh, and that Sal guy too I guess.
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People liked Kinsey?
 
BertramCooper said:
First of all, Don's Draper's past was never the best plot point of the show.

And you act as if the show hasn't introduced any new or interesting plotlines since the first season. It's not like it's constantly relying on the same ones it had four years ago. If that were the case, you'd have more of a point.
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I don't know a single person who doesn't think his past and all the good drama and tension it brought was the most intriguing part of the show. Half the appeal of Don's character was his past. Without that, he's just kind of a smart rich douche who can't keep his dick in his pants to me--practically a stereotype of the 50s/60s professional dad. Not very interesting since I got a nice dose of that in 4 seasons.

Whatever, you don't even get what I'm saying. It has changed and grown, but all the points that were most interesting to me have been resolved. Really not that controversial of an opinion, but I guess when you name yourself after the show and have an avatar dedicated to it, you're gonna close your ears to any criticism.
 
I had no idea there were salary issues with Weiner. Hopefully they get this resolved soon and get season 5 into production. I just worry now that they'll try to rush the production to get the new season out sooner, which could hurt the show.
 
LM4sure said:
I had no idea there were salary issues with Weiner. Hopefully they get this resolved soon and get season 5 into production. I just worry now that they'll try to rush the production to get the new season out sooner, which could hurt the show.
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Have you not read the thread? Season isn't happening until next year. Being rushed doesn't seem like an issue.
 
thekad said:
2012? Wow.

When does Breaking Bad come back?
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June/July

Ironically, Breaking Bad held back production four months because AMC wanted to put Mad Men and Breaking Bad on the same night. Whoops
 
The natural appeal of Don isn't that he sleeps around - it's that he sort of personifies this idea of the American dream, yet we realize that he's a flat out sham. We see the moments where he realizes that he's not really a part of this li(f)e he's created - the country club in season one, the office, etc. Even still, he constantly believes and aspires to be a better person and, commendably, is actually principled in certain aspects of his life, yet we see him fall woefully short time-and-time again whether it's with his children or his glass because he's selfish. The road to failure is paved with good intentions indeed.

It's simple to say that he's a flawed protagonist, but his characterization is much more complete than that.

Regardless of all his flaws, he seems to be better than his peers, and that's why we give him a chance.
 
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