Cymbal Head
Banned
Has anyone built the WRG renown deck that this cardpool is so obviously calling out for? I don't have access to a lot of those cards or enablers/pumpers like Subterranean Scout and Patron of the Valiant.
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Magic Duels |OT| Magic The Hearthstonening [Update Support Ending]
- Thread starter Nirolak
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SigmasonicX
Member
Even in an aggro deck, "attacks each turn" is not something you want on your creatures, and it won't be too common for you to both cast a creature and be able to cast Infectious Bloodrage. Inferno Fist can be used for direct damage.
Depends. Bloodlust if i got cheap evasive creatures. Inferno fist if not. Both are similar in power level.
Theres no good equipment aside from throwing knife. Maybe that medallion thingy but honestly i think they are dead for now.
The mana fixing is too janky for three color renown. I'd go greenwhite or white red. Green brings the beef and castellans are baller but redwhite provides the removal to get your creatures renown.
Both leave you wide open to 2-for-1ing yourself as you're casting them, but I think Inferno Fist works a bit better, since removing a small blocker allows your creature horde to slip by unimpeded, can be used to hit players for those last two points of damage (even though it's a 1RR sorcery-speed Shock in those cases), and doesn't force the creature to attack in case you need to actually not suicide your creatures as soon as your opponent drops anything capable of beating the creature in combat.
Cymbal Head
Banned
Or after. I have played several matches where I've been able to Reprisal one of my opponent's creatures immediately after a power-pumping aura resolves.
But at least the Fists allow you to Shock in response unless you had to tap yourself out to play them.
gotcha. Inferno Fist seems to be the clear winner as I expected, I was just wondering because I've seen a couple mono red deck lists with Bloodlust but not Inferno Fist, curiously
I usually try to avoid 2v1 situations by making sure the creature can't be removed before I finish casting the aura and leave a mana open when I can
I played a couple successful ranked matches just now with my elves deck and honestly it's just too fun trolling my opponents with Evolutionary Leap. I probably made them hate the card if they don't already
Sanctuary
Member
In a straight red deck, both cards are useful, but Infectious more so. Drawing one first turn along with a Goblin Glory Chaser is one of the better starting hands, especially if you go first. If they don't drop down a first turn blocker that can deal at least two damage, they are going to be hating the first few turns. In a straight red deck, you want to attack almost every turn if possible. The creatures are cheap, and they are going to die. Against any kind of control deck, the more turns they get, the lower your chance is to get a win. Infectious is a buff that replenishes itself and also thins out your deck. I use both buffs in my red deck, but if I had to pick one it would be Infectious since I am usually tapped out in the first few turns.
I don't like it though in a R/W deck at all.
If you think that's fun, wait until you start doing the Evolutionary/Shadows of the Past trolling. It's hilarious getting down to sub 5 health before actually being able to get an offense going, and then draining 10 - 15 health over time, usually being able to do that by filling your graveyard up with chump blockers that you end up sacrificing for more blockers.
I don't like it though in a R/W deck at all.
If you think that's fun, wait until you start doing the Evolutionary/Shadows of the Past trolling. It's hilarious getting down to sub 5 health before actually being able to get an offense going, and then draining 10 - 15 health over time, usually being able to do that by filling your graveyard up with chump blockers that you end up sacrificing for more blockers.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
yes, you have to actually do the quest
What do you guys mean? Different "shuffling styles" to spread out your lands in a non-random manner is deck stacking.
shawnoftheshred
Member
Does anyone know what the XBOX patch just did?
Sanctuary
Member
Does anyone know if the story mode duels randomize the card pool somewhat? I know there are tons of cards that are story mode specific, but holy hell. I'm doing Chandra's for the community as a change of pace, and it's nothing like it was the first time I finished it. I beat it with ease on my first attempt, so maybe I just didn't get to see how many cards the game actually uses, but the last three attempts have been nothing but:
1. AI drops X creature that causes mine to remain tapped as long as that creature is out. And they are typically 3/3 and unkillable for a long time.
2. AI constantly drops 0/7 walls that I have no way to deal with.
People can claim now that weaving in lands is considered stacking, but it wasn't in the past as long as you shuffled decently after. It was mostly to prevent huge land clumps that could happen if the previous duel lasted long enough for you to get most of your land out in play. I don't know about different "shuffling styles" either, but the shuffling in this game leaves much to be desired. It's nothing like paper MTG. I may have been out of the loop for a decade, but I have played a few thousand paper games at least, and the mana screws in this game are off the charts.
1. AI drops X creature that causes mine to remain tapped as long as that creature is out. And they are typically 3/3 and unkillable for a long time.
2. AI constantly drops 0/7 walls that I have no way to deal with.
People can claim now that weaving in lands is considered stacking, but it wasn't in the past as long as you shuffled decently after. It was mostly to prevent huge land clumps that could happen if the previous duel lasted long enough for you to get most of your land out in play. I don't know about different "shuffling styles" either, but the shuffling in this game leaves much to be desired. It's nothing like paper MTG. I may have been out of the loop for a decade, but I have played a few thousand paper games at least, and the mana screws in this game are off the charts.
shawnoftheshred
Member
Yeah, mana weaving is not allowed.
There are ways to shuffle your deck that randomize it. A common strategy is to place cards into five piles until you're done, pick up, riffle shuffle a few times, then repeat the whole process before your opponent cuts the deck. Randomization is key.
As for the Chandra deck, just played it again and didn't face any 0/7 walls so it was easy but I remember that the first time I did. The strategy was just to bait out counterspells until I could cast one of my fliers who did the bulk of the work. Never felt under pressure, just felt it was a waiting game on sticking a relevant threat, burning the opponent's threats to me in the meantime. How is the opponent killing you? I don't think in either game that I took a point of damage or was anywhere near getting milled out...
There are ways to shuffle your deck that randomize it. A common strategy is to place cards into five piles until you're done, pick up, riffle shuffle a few times, then repeat the whole process before your opponent cuts the deck. Randomization is key.
As for the Chandra deck, just played it again and didn't face any 0/7 walls so it was easy but I remember that the first time I did. The strategy was just to bait out counterspells until I could cast one of my fliers who did the bulk of the work. Never felt under pressure, just felt it was a waiting game on sticking a relevant threat, burning the opponent's threats to me in the meantime. How is the opponent killing you? I don't think in either game that I took a point of damage or was anywhere near getting milled out...
It is stacking. If you then shuffle enough that your deck is random again you were just wasting time. If you dont shuffle enough and your draws are different when you weave or don't weave then you're cheating.
well, I figured as much. I mean, I already finished the campaign and they don't actually say that you need to do it yourself, but it sort of makes sense
Sanctuary
Member
Like I said, it wasn't an issue in the past, and more people did it than not.
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=judge/article/20060707a
Also, screw the Chandra quest. I just tried it for the fifth time and it was the same old shit. 0/7 walls out the wazoo (which cause your creatures to not untap the next untap phase) and a bunch of "does not untap" spells or creatures. Not worth 40g at all, especially when aside from eight two casting cost creatures, most cost 3-5 mana. Game would take thirty or more minutes to finish.
Found that land damage card in a booster. Apparently I already had one of them in my collection which makes the max. Now to see if I can pull that "destroy a land, destroy your deck" deck off. I just gotta think of some cards and then see if I can pull them/scry(?) them as creatures in a land of mana to protect my 20 life?
There's not enough land search to really make the deck go off. You got that one card that searches a forest and puts one into play and the other to your hand and that's it. It can be an okay addition to a green red deck.
Mostly I use it in mono red that doesn't need more than 4 mama. The rest of the lands get converted to shocks to clear the board for my creatures.
Yes, sort of. I just beat it, you kinda have to bait out counterspells and try to shut down the 2/2 that lets you draw on combat damage and do you best to eliminate any card advantage. Hopefully you get some mana flood for the AI as well (which is what happened) for me. Basically I think the "do 10 damage with instants/sorceries in Chandra's campaign" achievement is pretty much for the last duel.
If you shuffled sufficiently afterwards, then the initial weaving was a complete waste of time. Weaving only does anything if you're insufficiently shuffling afterward.
There's tons of complaints about virtual MTG shuffling, but it is properly random. This was been studied and explained to death. The perception of "the shuffler is broken" is a combination of:
1) People play many more games over shorter periods of time digitally, so they see the statistical outlier cases more frequently.
2) Some people aren't actually randomizing their decks when they play paper Magic.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
No, the shuffler in MTGO has been studied and explained. The shuffler in MTGO also is independent of AI difficulty constraints. We don't know how the shuffler in Duels works.
shawnoftheshred
Member
Still haven't seen anything on what the Xbox One patch included...
Imperfected
Member
I think the lack of "friendly" mulligans probably also has something to do with it. (That is, if both players want to mulligan it's not uncommon for them to agree to stay at seven cards rather than both going down to six.)
shawnoftheshred
Member
Isn't the game actually MORE friendly with mulligans than paper magic? The default first mulligan gets you another 7 cards whereas competitive magic usually brings you straight down to 6?
Imperfected
Member
Yes and no. This game does give you a free mulligan, but technically you can end up getting multiple friendly mulligans in paper play. Mostly, it's just in the way people remember it at the end of the day.
Honestly, in both situations it's a matter of perception: if I go to a Draft I'm probably going to remember the number of games during the night that I had to mulligan down to less than seven cards, but not actually remember the number of friendly mulligans I had. As a result, through the (shitty) magic of memory I'm going to recall that I only had to mull to six or fewer once in an entire night.
Then I'm going to go online, not remembering the friendly mulls, and assume that I should get similar "draw luck". I'm selectively ignoring that I should have been mulled to six or fewer in many of the games where I wasn't, because it's a detail that my memory decided to categorize as unimportant.
That said, just in general: "Land Luck" is kind of garbage and there's a reason you don't see it much in modern CCG design. No one likes non-starter games.
shawnoftheshred
Member
I guess, it's just that in all of my years playing magic, I've never done friendly mulligans. It's always been 7>6>5>4 etc. So to me, the game just seems very friendly in that regard (though I do think the shuffler is wonky).
It just seems really implausible that the deck shuffling in Duels, especially against other players, is significantly more likely to give you a whole bunch of lands or very few lands than is purely random ordering. Why would it work that way? It's a hard thing to do by accident. OTOH it's really easy to believe that lots of people don't shuffle nearly well enough in paper Magic to achieve something close to a random ordering.
Heh. Originally the rule was you could only mull once if you got a no lander or all lander. Then you keep the next seven no matter what. The current up until this scry one experiment was called Paris Mulligan originally.
Also the extra draw seven is great in Duels. Anectdotal but ive only been mana screwed once so far. I'm curious what decks people are playing.
I've played a bit today and it seems pretty fun. Decks are all super crummy but I figure they will get better as I unlock more cards. Orzhov Auras seem fun with two boosters opened, I cracked two of the 4/3 elf dudes that kill when ETB.
Looks really grindy though but that's probably intentional.
Looks really grindy though but that's probably intentional.
There's some damn good decks you can make with the default cards. BR Aggro/Sacrifice is great.
but BW Auras is not one of them. Those Winnowers you got are effing great, though, even if a lot of the bigger threats in the format aren't valid targets. 4/3 Menace for 5 is not bad, and if it can hit anything at all, it is a great value.
The deck wizard is a sadistic piece of shit. Somebody at Stainless enjoys torturing newbies. "Sure, you're black red with some unconditional removal spells or burn at your disposal, but here, have some Bone Splinters!" Fuck you, give me the damn Twin Shots.
If any relative newbies want to post their decks, I'm willing to give advice. I'm running across too many opponents playing Fog, and it hurts me.
Looking more into hitting landrops and the RNG here's some nice reading material. Its written by Frank Karsten, a pretty good magic player 
It expresses why 24 or greater lands are important to consistent land drops.
It expresses why 24 or greater lands are important to consistent land drops.
Looking more into hitting landrops and the RNG here's some nice reading material. Its written by Frank Karsten, a pretty good magic player
It expresses why 24 or greater lands are important to consistent land drops.
Some good mulligan discussion in there, as well.
However, note that the super friendly mulligan rule knocks things down slightly, and that even without the mulligan rule, the #s he showed there are generally on the high end. Just because somebody builds a simulation doesn't mean that it actually proves shit.
Hmm if you say so. I'll check Rakdos aggro then. I had a blast with Heliod's Pilgrim tutoring the nerfed Faith's Fetters, then enchanting the First Strike Griffin with the +2/+2 Vigilance aura. That guy is a boss, he owned the board. Game is fun.
Knightly Valor is good, but there's no shortage of bounce or unconditional removal in the current format, and there's enough cheap burn to kill the creature before the Aura actually lands.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
So, I like Magic. I like Hearthstone. I like well running games. Will I like this game?
Let it be known, that the most important part of that previous sentence is the "well running games" part. If it doesn't run well, then that's probably going to be a huge factor in not enjoying it. Even if it wasn't that polished right now, is there potential for Wizards to actually make this client good (assuming it's not) or would it require a massive overhaul eventually/new game entirely?
Let it be known, that the most important part of that previous sentence is the "well running games" part. If it doesn't run well, then that's probably going to be a huge factor in not enjoying it. Even if it wasn't that polished right now, is there potential for Wizards to actually make this client good (assuming it's not) or would it require a massive overhaul eventually/new game entirely?
Certainly. It's doing great against the AI, which is all I'm playing until I unlock decent cards, but it's Orzhov auras, I'd never play it for real with a straight face, heh.
It runs well. I've had no performance issues. The server issues of the first week are fixed.
Cymbal Head
Banned
I'm starting to get tired of grinding out packs using the mediocre starter cards + what few I have managed to open. Is there a fun, off-the-beaten-path deck that I can build with mostly starters? I'm a little burned out on elves, thopters, and weenies.
Thopters and Elves are awful with the starting pool. You need a bunch of Origins cards to make them worthwhile.
Black/Red's starting pool is great.
4x RR sacrifice guys.
4x Perilous Myr
4x Twin Bolts
3x of the 4B Ogre that gets a boost from having mountains.
2x or 3x of the 3BB instant removal spell.
A few sacrifice outlets
1 or 2 Traitorous Instincts.
A few more aggressive 2 and 3 drops.
etc.
What Black/Red cards have you opened? Black and Red have a ton of great commons that belong in this deck.
Cymbal Head
Banned
From Origins I have:
2 x Consecrated by Blood
1 x Deadbridge Shaman
1 x Eyeblight Assassin
1 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Infernal Scarring
2 x Kothophed (got lucky here)
1 x Nantuko Husk
1 x Rabid Bloodsucker
1 x Shadows of the Past
1 x Tainted Remedy
2 x Unholy Hunger
1 x Avaricious Dragon
2 x Call of the Full Moon
1 x Chandra
2 x Embermaw Hellion
1 x Fiery Impulse
1 x Firefiend Elemental
1 x Flameshadow Conjuring
1 x Ghirapur Aether Grid
1 x Ghirapur Gearcrafter
2 x Ravaging Blaze
1 x Subterranean Scout
1 x Thopter Engineer
1 x Titan's Strength
1 x Blazing Hellhound
When I got the daily quest that asks you to sacrifice creatures, I quickly put together a sacrifice/reanimation deck, but I think I had only just finished the campaign at that point. It could use some tweaking.
shawnoftheshred
Member
Most of the packs I opened gave me Red and White uncommons, rares and mythics, so here's what I'm currently running. The idea is basically cheap, decent creatures (lots of first strike/double strike or enter the battlefield effects), a few +1 +1 effects and enchantments to make for tough blocking (first strike/double strike), decent removal, and a few fliers to go over the top later game. I think I'm level 12, going 11-1 so far (though truthfully, I've only fought a few decent decks). Anything obvious to swap out (realizing that I might not actually have extras of cards to bring in).
Creatures (26)
1 x Kytheon, Hero Of Akros
1 x Anointer of Champions (1/1, tap to give +1 +1)
2 x Elite Vanguard (2/1)
2 x Knight Of The White Orchid (2/2 first strike, fetch plains if less lands than opponent)
2 x Consul's Lieutenant (2/1 first strike, Renown 1, if renowned, other attacking creatures buffed)
4 x Kinsbaile Skirmisher (2/2, when enters gives a creature +1 +1)
1 x Blessed Spirits (2/2 flying, when cast enchantment get +1 +1 counter)
1 x Flaring Flame-Kin (2/2, if enchanted +2 + 2, trample, firebreathing)
1 x Akroan Sergeant (2/2 first strike, renown 1)
3 x Iroa's Champion (2/2 double strike)
1 x Archangel Of Tithes (3/5 flying, opponent pays mana to attack/block depending on sit')
2 x Ampryn Tactician (2/2, when enters other creatures get +1 +1)
1 x Razorfoot Griffin (2/2 first strike, flying)
1 x Avaricious Dragon (4/4 flying, at beginning upkeep draw extra card, discard hand at end)
2 x Pia And Kiran Nalaar (2/2, when enters add two 1/1 thopters, sac artifact + 3 mana, deal 2 damage to creature/player)
1 x Patron Of The Valiant (4/4 flying, when enters put +1 +1 counter on all creatures with +1 + 1 counter on them)
Spells (8)
3 x Fiery Impulse (2 damage, 3 if have 2 or more instants/sorcery in graveyard)
3 x Twin bolt (2 damage divided anyway)
1 x Reprisal (Destroy creature with 4 or greater power)
1 x Exquisite Firecraft (4 damage, potential to not be countered)
Enchantments (3)
1 x Nimbus Wings (+1 +2 flying)
2 x Infectious Bloodlust (+2 +1, haste, attack each turn, if creature dies, search library for another copy of enchantment)
Lands (23)
11 x Plains
8 x Mountains
2 x Clifftop Retreat
2 x Boros Guildgate
Creatures (26)
1 x Kytheon, Hero Of Akros
1 x Anointer of Champions (1/1, tap to give +1 +1)
2 x Elite Vanguard (2/1)
2 x Knight Of The White Orchid (2/2 first strike, fetch plains if less lands than opponent)
2 x Consul's Lieutenant (2/1 first strike, Renown 1, if renowned, other attacking creatures buffed)
4 x Kinsbaile Skirmisher (2/2, when enters gives a creature +1 +1)
1 x Blessed Spirits (2/2 flying, when cast enchantment get +1 +1 counter)
1 x Flaring Flame-Kin (2/2, if enchanted +2 + 2, trample, firebreathing)
1 x Akroan Sergeant (2/2 first strike, renown 1)
3 x Iroa's Champion (2/2 double strike)
1 x Archangel Of Tithes (3/5 flying, opponent pays mana to attack/block depending on sit')
2 x Ampryn Tactician (2/2, when enters other creatures get +1 +1)
1 x Razorfoot Griffin (2/2 first strike, flying)
1 x Avaricious Dragon (4/4 flying, at beginning upkeep draw extra card, discard hand at end)
2 x Pia And Kiran Nalaar (2/2, when enters add two 1/1 thopters, sac artifact + 3 mana, deal 2 damage to creature/player)
1 x Patron Of The Valiant (4/4 flying, when enters put +1 +1 counter on all creatures with +1 + 1 counter on them)
Spells (8)
3 x Fiery Impulse (2 damage, 3 if have 2 or more instants/sorcery in graveyard)
3 x Twin bolt (2 damage divided anyway)
1 x Reprisal (Destroy creature with 4 or greater power)
1 x Exquisite Firecraft (4 damage, potential to not be countered)
Enchantments (3)
1 x Nimbus Wings (+1 +2 flying)
2 x Infectious Bloodlust (+2 +1, haste, attack each turn, if creature dies, search library for another copy of enchantment)
Lands (23)
11 x Plains
8 x Mountains
2 x Clifftop Retreat
2 x Boros Guildgate
SigmasonicX
Member
1. Considering how few enchantments you have, you either need to get more enchantments or swap out your creatures that only get strong if you have enchantments.
2. It's generally a bad idea to have a lot of cards with both WW and RR in the cost (as in 2WW, as opposed to 3W), since you'll have a hard time casting one or the other. Especially given that you can only have two of the rare dual lands, it's better to lean heavily on one color over the other in your lands. It is fine to have a mix of WW and RR for cards that you'd generally cast later, though. However, Archangel of Tithes in particular seems like it could be hard to cast.
3. Infectious Bloodlust is a bit dangerous, since "attacks each turn" is generally not something you want on your creatures.
for all the (justified) complaints Duels get, I completely agree with you. They need to improve the client, fix the bugs, add chat (add an on/off toggle if you have to), add a two-headed giant version that gives you gold and rank so that players don't immediately leave when they don't get a perfect hand or it looks like they are about to lose, and stop forcing us to play against the AI when someone concedes. And things will get a lot more interesting once the card pool gets expanded (with more board wipes to end all elves and thopters)
I'm opening three boosters a day so slowly but steadily my card collection is improving, now that I get Liliana and a bunch of legendaries and some of the more useful commons and uncommons. Curiously, I'm still missing most of the elves cards that my deck is lacking
here's my current Boros deck that I use to grind the hard AI at a near 100% win rate. Note that some cards with double or triple W cost are kinda out of place, heh, but I haven't really taken this deck online yet so that's fine. It's more or less a full-on aggro deck with a few angles to secure the win. Eventually I'd like to end the curve at 4 mana and have a few more creatures because my hand tends to get cluttered up with spells and auras, but it works quite well at the moment for my purposes. I don't think a complete Boros deck would very viable online with the current set, mono white and W/G might probably be more consistent
http://imgur.com/a/lsdz1#0
shawnoftheshred
Member
Thanks!
1 - Yeah, truthfully, the two creatures in particular that are there for enchantment buffs (the 2/2 flier/and 2/2 red creature) are only really there because I don't have other 3 drops to take their spots. They are basically just placeholders until I unlock something better in that slot (I am unsure if there actually IS something better in that slot, hah).
Possible replacements in my pool right now are:
2 x Relic Seeker (2/2 Renown 1 - if I replace enchantment package w/ equipment, this guy would be better)
1 x Consul's Lieutenant (2/1, Renown 1, other attacking creatures get +1 +1)
2 x Abbot Of Keral Keep (2/1, Prowess, ETB effect: exile top card, can play until end of turn) - lots of value there overall for 2 mana
4 x Subterranean Scout (power 2 or less can't be blocked this turn - I don't seem aggro enough)
1 x Chandra (don't have enough red spells to flip her, pus hard mana constraint early
3 x Arkoan Sergeant (2/2 First Strike, Renown 1)
4 x Ghirapur Gearcrafter (2/1 ETB put a 1/1 Thopter)
1 x Kytheon's Tactics (creatures you control get +2 +1 until end of turn - would run this if it was instant for sure)
4 x Knight Of Pilgrim's Road (3/2 Renown 1 - a three mana, 2 toughness without first strike is tough to justify)
1 x Stalwart Aven (1/3 Flying, Renown 1 - might be better than I gave it credit for?)
2 x Vryn Wingmare (noncreature spells cost 1 more - I still have 8-11 noncreature spells, even if I drop the enchantment side of things)
4 x Celestial Flare (more removal)
2 - I haven't yet run into that problem mana-wise yet (not saying it isn't a problem, just that it hasn't been), since it's heavy white until late game (the Dragon and the deal 4 damage spell). Right now it's 15 white sources, 12 red sources with 2 creatures that can conditionally fetch a plains.
3 - Infectious Bloodlust, yeah, I've been going back and forth on it. Trying to balance that negative side of it with the fact that it helps to counter one of the downsides of auras in general (2-for-1, at least I can fetch one). Maybe the answer is, once I get better 3 drops, to drop the enchantments and add more +1+1 effects or a decent equipment like Throwing Knives instead?
...basically, I think my instinct, after looking at it, is to drop the 2 enchantment creatures + enchantments for the 2/2 searches up an equipment guy + Throwing Knives + some combination of value creatures, removal and +1+1 effects?
That's some damn good pulls, especially the bolded. You definitely have the goods to make a nice BR aggro/sacrifice deck.
I've been manascrewed pretty often. A bunch of creatures or no creatures. Either way the RNG for the decks seems kinda lop-sided toward one or the other even if you try to balance both to be 50/50 in the distribution.
I'm ranking 11 or 12 right now rocking a UB cemitery thing. I've tried to do a classic UB control, but counter at 3 mana (and that become useless endgame) is too much. Otoh, I think I have more fun with it as it is.
Sadly. I only have one of the zombie that demands sacrifice from both players, but sometimes that one zombie goes in and out of the cemitery, like, 5 or 6 times.
Sadly. I only have one of the zombie that demands sacrifice from both players, but sometimes that one zombie goes in and out of the cemitery, like, 5 or 6 times.
Could you post the decks you're being screwed with? My suspicion is that you have too little land, too much land, too high of a curve, or a very greedy manabase.