• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Magic: the Gathering |OT12| Hour of Devastation - Hour of Jace getting dunked on

Status
Not open for further replies.

Repgnar

Member
Went to two prereleases. Midnight went ten times better than the one yesterday. Yesterday's just didn't have any bombs. The commons and few uncommons made me go R/G which I controlled the game early but couldn't finish games at all. Was 0-2 so I made a U/W fliers/stall deck and won with that before dropping. Had fun both days though and can't complain about pulls overall. Between my wife and I we have 3 scarab gods, a few of the cat rares, and that 8/8 black mythic that was going for like 7 bucks when I opened it.
 
But it's not card draw, it's just -2 life to pretend you didn't draw the street wraith, there's literally no point in playing it if it's not beneficial.

Burst Lightning, Skullcrack, Guide, Swiftspear, Lavamancer. I'd play all of those instead of the wraith. And I think I'd remove either the collective brutalities or the kolaghan's commands (or terminates) for more of the cards I mentioned.

Okay thanks for the help. I see the error in my ways with the cantrips. Thanks you two.

I don't think anything is perfectly "solved" and to add, I'm not trying to break Modern Burn or something. This is just a fun idea that I had.
 
A guy made top 4 in the modern ptq (more than 300 players) by innovating with Burn, so there's room to change there. He added black and removed some 2 mana spells for cheaper burn spells, and removed Eidolon.
Until it catches on I'd call it variation and I think bump in the night has seen fringe play in burn every now and then.

I wonder if DS could ever be pervasive enough to make alms of the vein playable in place of bump.
 
Until it catches on I'd call it variation and I think bump in the night has seen fringe play in burn every now and then.

I wonder if DS could ever be pervasive enough to make alms of the vein playable in place of bump.

Did you see the Black Burn deck that SafronOlive was so excited about a couple weeks back?

I don't remember specifics but I believe that he wasn't that into Alms of the Vein after playing the deck.
 
I haven't played tournament Magic in a long time, but I have played Modern burn decks in the past and I can't understand how burn doesn't just run roughshod all over any Death's Shadow deck.

There is clearly something I'm missing if Deaths Shadow is so prevalent but I just don't understand how burn isn't the king of the castle in a Deaths Shadow environment
 
I haven't played tournament Magic in a long time, but I have played Modern burn decks in the past and I can't understand how burn doesn't just run roughshod all over any Death's Shadow deck.

There is clearly something I'm missing if Deaths Shadow is so prevalent but I just don't understand how burn isn't the king of the castle in a Deaths Shadow environment

Honestly, I had the same thought. It could be the rest of the meta that holds it back but a typical DS deck doesn't even have good anti-burn cards in the sideboard.

When I play Jund I always have to pack anti-burn cards in my SB. Hell, I'll sometimes do five damage to myself turn one with a Fetch - Shock- Thoughtseize on the play, realize I'm playing Burn and feel pretty dumb helping them do five damage to myself. haha
 
Burn has been in a weird spot for a while now because Naya Burn and Burn in general doesn't actually have the firepower to stand up to Eldrazi Tron and Death's Shadow. I think the most common mistake in this meta is playing Eidolon at all. It actively plays into the DS plan and really does nothing against Tron now that they're not playing as many one drops. The additional thing that really messes up Burn is how rampant discard is. You need to plan around it and current Burn decks don't. As in, some kind of graveyard plan should be employed, or things that make discard less effective or not good vs burn.

Hot tech that I find success with is Roast and Bedlam Reveler. One of Flame Jab also leads to hilarity. Faithless Looting also smooths things out.
 

Santiako

Member
I haven't played tournament Magic in a long time, but I have played Modern burn decks in the past and I can't understand how burn doesn't just run roughshod all over any Death's Shadow deck.

There is clearly something I'm missing if Deaths Shadow is so prevalent but I just don't understand how burn isn't the king of the castle in a Deaths Shadow environment

Death Shadow is usually favoured against Burn. Death's Shadow won't hurt themselves as much and let the burn player do the work, if they can't do the last 10-11 damage in one turn cycle (which is pretty hard to do with all the discard, counters and removal), they will have a ton of difficulty of winning.
 

ironmang

Member
I haven't played tournament Magic in a long time, but I have played Modern burn decks in the past and I can't understand how burn doesn't just run roughshod all over any Death's Shadow deck.

There is clearly something I'm missing if Deaths Shadow is so prevalent but I just don't understand how burn isn't the king of the castle in a Deaths Shadow environment

Creatures with big butts cause burn trouble and that's almost every creature in Death's Shadow. Discard helps too since burn is pretty bad at topdecking and stubborn denial and snapcasters can just lock burn out of the game. Plus if they know they're playing against burn which is apparent almost instantly then they can just play a slower game and just drop a shadow and win when you're out of gas. Wouldn't say it's favorable for shadow but I'd rather be on that side for sure.
 
Did you see the Black Burn deck that SafronOlive was so excited about a couple weeks back?

I don't remember specifics but I believe that he wasn't that into Alms of the Vein after playing the deck.
I saw it but didn't take a good look. Issue is it's only good against LotV and KCommand both being less than 4 ofs in DS.
At the time you're heckbent there's no difference to madnessing it or casting it from hand except timing and costs.

That means you'd have to play self discard which is just a waste of mana at that point.
 
I went 3-3 at my prerelease, winning the first three handily and losing the last three in close matches. I ran a R/G deck splashing blue for The Locust God, and I had Oasis Ritualist, one Island, and Traveler's Amulet to get the blue mana. I never got color screwed by the blue, but I did once have trouble getting to six mana with The Locust God in my hand. Either my opponent had an answer for it, or he conceded after I got it out, so I never got to do anything with it.

I got plenty of red removal, with Abrade, Blur of Blades, Open Fire, and Trial of Zeal, plus Chandra's Defeat in the sideboard, and I got a lot of green creatures, both large and small, notably including Scaled Behemoth. I knew starting out that the deck wasn't perfectly tuned, going both big and aggro, but it worked well in my first match, and the following two, so I didn't bother to change it much. I probably should have after my losing streak, going aggro and cutting a land since I didn't have a good way to deal with cards like The Scarab God, which wrecked me.

Red cards
1x Crash Through - Sorcery - R - Mainly just used this to "cycle", but the trample was helpful once. I never got this and The Locust God out at the same time.
1x Abrade - Instant - 1R - None of my opponents played artifacts.
1x Blur of Blades - Instant - 1R - I used this to take out 1-toughness creatures.
1x Nef-Crop Entangler - Creature - 1R - Pretty standard pattern of attacking normally when I could, exerting when 1 toughness wasn't enough.
1x Open Fire - Instant - 2R - It is remarkable how Lightning Bolt is useful at even this cost.
1x Trial of Zeal - Enchantment - 2R - I didn't have any cartouches, but it was nice to sacrifice this to torment effects.
1x Frontline Devastator - Creature - 3R - I swear, everyone playing red had this card. it was alright, I suppose.
1x Glorybringer - Creature - 3RR - Still great.

Green cards
1x Rhonas's Last Stand - Sorcery - GG - Wasn't too impressed, since it ate removal or got -1/-1 counters to become a 1/2 every time. I often got it on turn 3, not turn 2.
1x Bitterblade Warrior - Creature - 1G - Was a fine attacker.
1x Naga Vitalist - Creature - 1G - Was mainly a blocker, since when I got this out, I was curving out anyway.
1x Rhonas's Stalwart - Creature - 1G - Another fine attacker, worked for forcing blocks with bigger creatures than 2/2. I had more in my sideboard that I could have included if I wanted to be more aggro.
1x Harrier Naga - Creature - 2G - Alright. I had more in my sideboard.
1x Pouncing Cheetah - Creature - 2G - Whenever I flashed this in to block, it hate removal.
1x Watchful Naga - Creature - 2G - This was good for getting cards.
1x Oasis Ritualist - Creature - 3G - This was helpful for surprise a The Locust God, and it was a good blocker. I never exerted it.
1x Tenacious Hunter - Creature - 2GG - Despite Blur of Blades, I never had this out while there was a -1/-1 counter on the battlefield.
1x Bitterbow Sharpshooters - Creature - 4G - This was good.
1x Rampaging Hippo - Creature - 4GG - This was good.
1x Scaled Behemoth - Creature - 4GG - This was good too, though it sometimes burned in my hand.

Multicolored
1x The Locust God - Creature - 4UR - Like I said, either it was exiled right away, or my opponent conceded.

Artifact
1x Traveler's Amulet - Artifact - 1 - Nice for fetching my one Island, probably should have cut it out when I was siding to be more aggro but I forgot about it.
1x Sunset Pyramid - Artifact - 2 - Great for getting cards.

Lands
1x Island
7x Mountain
9x Forest
 

Santiako

Member
San Diego ComiCon 2017 Planeswakers Revealed

tQBYhHy.png


$180.00, almost doubled in price from previous ones :/

Last printing of each gatewatch member + Bolas (SOI Jace, Amonkhet Lili,Gideon and Nissa, Kaladesh Chandra, Hour Bolas).

I'd love that Chandra, but that price is steep.
 
Are pres so highly attended / profitable that wizards can't hold and stream modern GPs during for 2 weeks?

Yeah, I think that's correct. The prerelease crushes viewership and attendance for anything else that runs parallel.

I don't think anything is perfectly "solved" and to add, I'm not trying to break Modern Burn or something. This is just a fun idea that I had.

Yeah, I agree that (especially in a format like Modern) there's room to experiment and maybe find something that isn't in common use. The thing about free cantrips like Street Wraith is that they're primarily beneficial if there isn't enough redundancy in your game plan and so starting at ~16 life is worth it to play a 56 card deck. Burn definitely has enough good options to fill out the slots so the tradeoff's never gonna be worth it.
 

Supast4r

Junior Member
I haven't played tournament Magic in a long time, but I have played Modern burn decks in the past and I can't understand how burn doesn't just run roughshod all over any Death's Shadow deck.

There is clearly something I'm missing if Deaths Shadow is so prevalent but I just don't understand how burn isn't the king of the castle in a Deaths Shadow environment

Honestly, I had the same thought. It could be the rest of the meta that holds it back but a typical DS deck doesn't even have good anti-burn cards in the sideboard.

When I play Jund I always have to pack anti-burn cards in my SB. Hell, I'll sometimes do five damage to myself turn one with a Fetch - Shock- Thoughtseize on the play, realize I'm playing Burn and feel pretty dumb helping them do five damage to myself. haha
Burn grows the death shadow so burn can't just chip down a death shadow player like other decks. The matchup is reletivley even since burn can't kill any ds creature but snap so most of their burn goes to their face
 
Yeah, I agree that (especially in a format like Modern) there's room to experiment and maybe find something that isn't in common use.
Solved doesn't mean that all lists will be identical and that there's no room to change cards but that we generally know the best cards available to the strategy and that the succesful decks will not deviate considerably from a stock list.

I'd also consider Merfolk a solved deck. There's something like 6 cards total that ever change in those decks.
 

Supast4r

Junior Member
Burn has been in a weird spot for a while now because Naya Burn and Burn in general doesn't actually have the firepower to stand up to Eldrazi Tron and Death's Shadow. I think the most common mistake in this meta is playing Eidolon at all. It actively plays into the DS plan and really does nothing against Tron now that they're not playing as many one drops. The additional thing that really messes up Burn is how rampant discard is. You need to plan around it and current Burn decks don't. As in, some kind of graveyard plan should be employed, or things that make discard less effective or not good vs burn.

Hot tech that I find success with is Roast and Bedlam Reveler. One of Flame Jab also leads to hilarity. Faithless Looting also smooths things out.
Doing what you suggested makes you really bad against the rest of the field. Great revel is too great against almost every other deck to take out imho. Adding cards that do no dmg to your main also makes your match against the field much worse.
 

bigkrev

Member
So what are some good MTG podcasts other than Limited Resources and Maro's Drive to Work?

I've been on a podcast kick recently

I love Top8Magic but understand its filed with in-jokes (the podcast is 12 years old), NBA, TV, and Movie discussions, and is recorded walking through New York City so there are cars, construction, bystanders, ECT in the background.
 
Yeah, I agree that (especially in a format like Modern) there's room to experiment and maybe find something that isn't in common use. The thing about free cantrips like Street Wraith is that they're primarily beneficial if there isn't enough redundancy in your game plan and so starting at ~16 life is worth it to play a 56 card deck. Burn definitely has enough good options to fill out the slots so the tradeoff's never gonna be worth it.
I appreciate this, it's very constructive. I haven't played a burn deck since the Fire and Lightning precon they put out years ago for kitchen table fun.
I've played against burn, competitively, so I know how to play against it with Jund. I just felt that I hate top decking and burn can dump their hand it seems so the cantrips were a well placed, yet foolish, idea I had. I just need to learn what the best burn spells are that can stick with the Grixis colors for this idea.

Burn grows the death shadow so burn can't just chip down a death shadow player like other decks. The matchup is reletivley even since burn can't kill any ds creature but snap so most of their burn goes to their face
This is why with the version I wanted to put down, I had Fatal Push and Terminate in there to get rid of the creatures so the actual burn spells could be used for the face.

Here's an update based on feedback for the Grixis Burn Project ;)

Creatures

4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage

Spells

4 Bump in the Night
4 Fatal Push
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Shard Volley
4 SkullCrack
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Rift Bolt

Lands

2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave

Sideboard

3 Shattering Spree
3 Rakdos Charm
4 Terminate
3 Blood moon
2 Exquisite Firecraft
 

Tunoku

Member
Prerelease went really well today. The only game I lost was due to being color screwed. I played a super durdly UB deck with a splash for the UW 2/3 Vigilance Embalm guy. I'll post the list later, but it was a ton of fun to play. The two rares I had were Nimble Obstructionist and Torment of Hailfire. I actually played against a guy who had the Legendary 4/3 that fetches a Planeswalker and managed to counter the trigger with the bird.
 
If I wanted to buy a playset of every Modern-legal card (or at least the relevant ones), what's the best way to go about that? eBay didn't really give me anything with the search terms I tried. I'd prefer not to just buy the individual cards/decks.

Thanks
 
Solved doesn't mean that all lists will be identical and that there's no room to change cards but that we generally know the best cards available to the strategy and that the succesful decks will not deviate considerably from a stock list.

I just don't think this really applies in a format like Modern where the deep card pool plus largely unpredictable meta shifts means there's opportunities for new tech all the time. I'd call something like burn "stable" sooner than solved. Not a huge distinction, but I think there's value in trying to dig around for possible tech in your deck in Modern in a way that there typically isn't in any Standard environment past the first few weeks.

So what are some good MTG podcasts other than Limited Resources and Maro's Drive to Work?

I really enjoy both Commanderin' (the goofy EDH podcast that has WotC people on as guests all the time) and So Many Insane Plays (Steve Menendian's extremely verbose Vintage podcast.)
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
I was very clearly not blessed by the pre-release gods yesterday...

lc3DPr7h.jpg


Ended up building a janky G/B ramp deck that had no payoff besides hippos and Torment of Hailfire. I felt like ToH was a better midgame tempo card than finisher. Other than that, the only standout card was Channeler Initiate, which tells you how my day went. 1-2.
 

depward

Member
Newbie to Magic.

Going to a family reunion in a week. Would a duel pack be a good idea for someone else and myself to learn?

What about a toolkit pack?
 
I just don't think this really applies in a format like Modern where the deep card pool plus largely unpredictable meta shifts means there's opportunities for new tech all the time. I'd call something like burn "stable" sooner than solved. Not a huge distinction, but I think there's value in trying to dig around for possible tech in your deck in Modern in a way that there typically isn't in any Standard environment past the first few weeks.
Semantics really, you could call it as solved as can be in modern and it's still not particularly different to just solved.

You know the strategy so even when looking for new cards those will very likely be the same kind of cards. Like how bump in the night and shard volley are further lava spikes.

Solved or not in modern is in no relation to standard.
 

Repgnar

Member
Newbie to Magic.

Going to a family reunion in a week. Would a duel pack be a good idea for someone else and myself to learn?

What about a toolkit pack?

I would do pre-constructed decks so a duel pack would probably be best. From my understanding, someone correct me if i'm wrong, those are better balanced where if you just bought two pre-constructed decks there may be a bigger variance in power level.
 

Wichu

Member
I still can't believe it, but my devotion to the God-Pharaoh really paid off! I've been rocking my Bolas playmat and a hand-made set of card Bolas horns for all four prereleases this block, and also grabbed a Bolas Grixis Control T-shirt a few weeks ago that I wore to both HOU prereleases.

After playing Cat tribal yesterday, today I opened Nicol Bolas as my prerelease promo. I obviously forced Grixis control with only one other playable on-colour rare (Rags // Riches) and no fixing (six lands of each colour let's go!) I only lost one match to colour screw, which was the final round - I went into the round as the only 5-0 player, so I still managed to get my second ever prerelease 1st place. I got lots of wins off Bolas, sometimes just as a 7-mana burn spell.

ALL PRAISE THE GOD-PHARAOH!

Newbie to Magic.

Going to a family reunion in a week. Would a duel pack be a good idea for someone else and myself to learn?

What about a toolkit pack?

How much do you know already? I would recommend playing Magic Duels to get the gist of the basic gameplay first. It's hard to just pick up a product and play - I don't think the rules inserts that come with them go into much detail.

Duel Decks are a bit more on the complex side, so I wouldn't really recommend them until you at least have a grasp of the basics. Toolkits are fine, but you have to build the decks yourself. I would actually grab a pair of Planeswalker Decks, such as the new Nissa and Nicol Bolas decks from Hour of Devastation - each one has a prebuilt starter deck and two booster packs to expand your deck once you've gotten the hang of things.
 

depward

Member
How much do you know already? I would recommend playing Magic Duels to get the gist of the basic gameplay first. It's hard to just pick up a product and play - I don't think the rules inserts that come with them go into much detail.

Duel Decks are a bit more on the complex side, so I wouldn't really recommend them until you at least have a grasp of the basics. Toolkits are fine, but you have to build the decks yourself. I would actually grab a pair of Planeswalker Decks, such as the new Nissa and Nicol Bolas decks from Hour of Devastation - each one has a prebuilt starter deck and two booster packs to expand your deck once you've gotten the hang of things.
I know the basics. But that's about it. Played the Magic game that came out on Xbox 360 back in the day... And had a refresher course by playing my brother and everything started coming back to me. Currently playing Magic Duels to get a better grasp.

Maybe I just grab two Planeswalker decks and use that for now... Basically want to easily introduce a brother in law. He's a big Hearthstone player so I think he'd grasp the basics quickly.
 
Not sure about those 4x Shard Volleys with only 19 lands.

Yeah, Shard Volley in a 3 colour-19-land-deck is not something I'd play.

Yes, good point other than the deck list that won 4th in the PTQ that was linked to earlier played four Shard Volley in a three color deck with only 19 lands.

Something to test with perhaps or should I make the cut now?

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-ptq-2017-07-04
 

Wichu

Member
I know the basics. But that's about it. Played the Magic game that came out on Xbox 360 back in the day... And had a refresher course by playing my brother and everything started coming back to me. Currently playing Magic Duels to get a better grasp.

Maybe I just grab two Planeswalker decks and use that for now... Basically want to easily introduce a brother in law. He's a big Hearthstone player so I think he'd grasp the basics quickly.

In that case, you could actually be fine with Duel Decks. The increased complexity is in the card text and interactions, so if you're familiar with things like priority and the stack then the rest just comes down to reading. Most Duel Decks have a complexity difference between the two decks, so as you have more experience you can try playing the more complex side first and have your brother in law play the simpler side, then swap after he's gotten the hang of how they play. For example, the recent Mind vs Might deck has a fairly technical Suspend/Storm-based deck in Mind, but a much more straightforward creature aggro deck in Might.
 

depward

Member
In that case, you could actually be fine with Duel Decks. The increased complexity is in the card text and interactions, so if you're familiar with things like priority and the stack then the rest just comes down to reading. Most Duel Decks have a complexity difference between the two decks, so as you have more experience you can try playing the more complex side first and have your brother in law play the simpler side, then swap after he's gotten the hang of how they play. For example, the recent Mind vs Might deck has a fairly technical Suspend/Storm-based deck in Mind, but a much more straightforward creature aggro deck in Might.

Thank you for the thorough explanation and recommendation! Appreciate it very much.
 
Doing what you suggested makes you really bad against the rest of the field. Great revel is too great against almost every other deck to take out imho. Adding cards that do no dmg to your main also makes your match against the field much worse.

Eidolon is good against control and varieties of combo. The most common decks are not control and varieties of combo.

But keep in mind that I'm also saying that people shouldn't be playing Naya Burn as it currently exists. Any version of burn will naturally destroy Affinity, Hate Bears, and other common (Non-DS) aggro decks. So you should be tooling to beat the actual meta threats.
 

Santiako

Member

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Won two headed giant prerelease with a 3-0-1. We had nearly every removal spell in both sets and the locust god.
 

sgjackson

Member
second pre-release was 3-1 again. had a really solid g/b deck splashing for scorpion god off of channeler initiate, shefet monitor, and two red lands but lost one match on a mull to 4 - other games were 1-1. slightly salty, but them's the breaks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom