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[ari]

<puts on flame suit>

I HATE THIS MOVIE!

Please let me explain why...

As I gather it, one of the main plot points of this film is that no matter what hand you are dealt in life, you can accomplish amazing things and you shouldn't be ostracized for being different than others.

That being said... Forrest is a mentally challenged character... but the director (Robert Zemekis) treats the audience the exact same way!

Forrest Gump the movie lost all my respect as a viewer when the director treats the audience as if we are stupid.

Case in point... there's that scene where Lt. Dan and Forrest have the hookers in his room. The hooker calls Forrest a retard and Dan gets angry and then she calls him a cripple... ensuing Hulk-esque rampage as Dan throws them out, then the slow camera pan from Forrest to Dan. At this point the audience is putting two-plus-two together just fine and they understand what just happened - Forrest and Dan both have shared a moment of discrimination that has bonded them more than any moment in the war. What does Zemekis do at that moment... HE HAS HANKS DO A VOICEOVER saying "I guess Lt. Dan doesn't like being called a cripple the way I don't like being called stupid" DUH!!! The audience isn't retarded! Please allow those viewing a little respect and a chance to think on our own.

I don't get it, i don't want to keep defending this film but you do know that Gump was mentally retarded right? So narrating like morgan freeman wouldn't really work. :lol

 

[itsinmyveins]

I liked Blade Runner with Harrison Ford narrating :O

(Not to say I don't like the version without him).

 

[Chichikov]

I'm glad I dont care about the political side of it. Its a lot easier to enjoy the film if you watch it and think that the story is about an idiot who had an incredible life instead of thinking that the film is soulless propaganda.

Seriously?
A story of an incredible life?
Surely even you see that the movie is trying to make a point, you can't really take this fairytale literally can you?

And sure, nothing inherently wrong with being manipulative, and as movie goer you can allow yourself to accept it.
But I find it totally impossible to do with Forest Gump because -

a. It just too obvious in its manipulation, you can hardly ignore its preachiness.

b. The actual point its trying to make is so conservative and reactionary that as a progressive (and I use these terms in the pure sense of the word, not dems v GOP bullshit) it triggers my philosophical antibodies and pretty much kill any chance of disbelief suspension (which is essential for such movie). The fact that they use iconic progressive imagery to promote opposite sensibilities is just icing on the me-getting-pissed-off cake.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I don't get it, i don't want to keep defending this film but you do know that Gump was mentally retarded right? So narrating like morgan freeman wouldn't really work. :lol

Yea, that narration sounds like something the character would say. Jeez

 

[itsinmyveins]

Seriously?
A story of an incredible life?
Surely even you see that the movie is trying to make a point, you can't really take this fairytale literally can you?

And sure, nothing inherently wrong with being manipulative, and as movie goer you can allow yourself to accept it.
But I find it totally impossible to do with Forest Gump because -

a. It just too obvious in its manipulation, you can hardly ignore its preachiness.

b. The actual point its trying to make is so conservative and reactionary that as a progressive (and I use these terms in the pure sense of the word, not dems v GOP bullshit) it triggers my philosophical antibodies and pretty much kill any chance of disbelief suspension (which is essential for such movie). The fact that they use iconic progressive imagery to promote opposite sensibilities is just icing on the me-getting-pissed-off cake.

:lol :lol

EDIT: Could you, perhaps, explain this "conservative point"?

 

[ari]

Yea, that narration sounds like something the character would say. Jeez

pretty much, people seem pissed off about everything in this movie. Either its the musical score, the direction, tom hanks, jenny, or the story. I swear gaf is the only place of the corners of the earth that loves anime and call a movie like Forrest Gump shit with the stupidest reason ever.

 

[itsinmyveins]

The only real argument I can understand so far in this discussion is that the movie is a bit too sentimental and easy going (even though it's filled with cynism at points) for some. All the politicized issues have been very vague and far fetched, and I could just as easily build a case about how liberal this movie is if I wanted, using the same vague definitions.

 

[ari]

The only real argument I can understand so far in this discussion is that the movie is a bit too sentimental and easy going (even though it's filled with cynism at points) for some. All the politicized issues have been very vague and far fetched, and I could just as easily build a case about how liberal this movie is if I wanted, using the same vague definitions.

Something else we agree on.

 

[Formless]

I just treat it as a nice story about a nice person. Seriously, I doubt it's meant to be "propaganda" or that it treats the audience as retarded. Forrest's character is just an honest, but dumb person, and the amazing events that happen to his life highlight the "luck" he has.

 

[yankeeforever2]

pretty much, people seem pissed off about everything in this movie. Either its the musical score, the direction, tom hanks, jenny, or the story. I swear gaf is the only place of the corners of the earth that loves anime and call a movie like Forrest Gump shit with the stupidest reason ever.

Yeah, Forest Gump is an awesome movie, I even know people that have the worst taste in films that love Forest Gump. People just love to hate things sometimes.

 

[Tobor]

The only real argument I can understand so far in this discussion is that the movie is a bit too sentimental and easy going (even though it's filled with cynism at points) for some. All the politicized issues have been very vague and far fetched, and I could just as easily build a case about how liberal this movie is if I wanted, using the same vague definitions.

Did you even read the article I linked? I get that this a forum, not a film class, but this is a degree of reality avoidance I'm just not used too.

 

[Chichikov]

:lol :lol

EDIT: Could you, perhaps, explain this "conservative point"?

Gump, the moral anchor of the story represent "good old American values" while Jenny went through a buffet of negatively presented counter-culture and progressive themes, not to mentioned that she was promptly "punished" for her unmoral behavior.
Do you not see that movie as preaching to, or at the least longing for the return of the simpler good ol' times?
Isn't that conservative by definition?

 

[itsinmyveins]

Did you even read the article I linked? I get that this a forum, not a film class, but this is a degree of reality avoidance I'm just not used too.

Did you read it, because it doesn't seem like it?

 

[PhoenixDark]

boo hoo hoo haters. I saw nothing wrong with Jenny considering the 60's and 70's were full of Jennys. Excess drugs and sex can lead to bad things? OMG I'M SHOCKED AT THIS DISGUSTING PROPAGANDA

*rolls eyes*

 

[Tobor]

Did you read it, because it doesn't seem like it?

Yes, I read it. Is this your version of "I know you are but what am I" or do you have a point?

I can do more research if you need, such as the National Review article referenced, but I don't see why I need to. Its clear this is not going anywhere.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Gump, the moral anchor of the story represent "good old American values" while Jenny went through a buffet of negatively presented counter-culture and progressive themes, not to mentioned that she was promptly "punished" for her unmoral behavior.
Do you not see that movie as preaching to, or at the least longing for the return of the simpler good ol' times?
Isn't that conservative by definition?

I pretty much already answered to all this earlier on this page. Jennys life was, later in the movie, set in these rebellish surroundings, but her surroundings were never the focus in the movie. It was her state of mind that was, which you all seem to have glossed over. And her state of mind didn't really stem from the progressive themes, but from her childhood.

By the way, the "good ol' days" apparantely means a mother fucking to get her son into school, fathers abusing their daughters and etc?

It's a story about one guy with some incredible tales, it's as simple as that. I think you can apply that concept in any time or country just as well.

Yes, I read it. Is this your version of "I know you are but what am I" or do you have a point.

I can do more research if you need, such as the National Review article referenced, but I don't see why I need to. Its clear this is not going anywhere.

I'm just not seeing your point here at all. You linked to an article where among other this thing is found;

"Gump's coproducer Steve Tisch, no doubt concerned about his film being seen as a rightist manifesto in the liberal salons of Oscartown, tried to downplay the political association. ''I don't think the film was a catalyst for a trend of any kind,'' Tisch said a few days after the election. ''I don't think this film is about conservative or liberal values, or even American values. The film is about human values."

But what's the point fo the article? Showing that there are more people who think Forrest Gump's republican propaganda?

Moreover; you haven't answered my arguments regarding Jenny at all.

 

[ari]

Gump, the moral anchor of the story represent "good old American values" while Jenny went through a buffet of negatively presented counter-culture and progressive themes, not to mentioned that she was promptly "punished" for her unmoral behavior.
Do you not see that movie as preaching to, or at the least longing for the return of the simpler good ol' times?
Isn't that conservative by definition?

So did Ms. Gump and bubba got punished because of their unmoral behavior?

 

[Stoney Mason]

I always avoided this thread and just clicking on the last page, I'm glad I did. Jesus Christ at some of you people. "Republican propaganda"

 

[acevans2]

A better Tom Hanks movie : Catch Me if You Can


But yea. Forrest Gump is an amazing film that I could watch over and over and over.

 

[Chichikov]

I pretty much already answered to all this earlier on this page. Jennys life was, later in the movie, set in these rebellish surroundings, but her surroundings were never the focus in the movie. It was her state of mind that was, which you all seem to have glossed over. And her state of mind didn't really stem from the progressive themes, but from her childhood.

By the way, the "good ol' days" apparantely means a mother fucking to get her son into school, fathers abusing their daughters and etc?

It's a story about one guy with some incredible tales, it's as simple as that. I think you can apply that concept in any time or country just as well.

Actually, the fact that the movie make the point that she got into the counter culture because she was abused and confused support my point.

Again, you can take it as nothing more than a single person's story, you can see the movie as having no message. I have to wonder why would you put so many logic defining, fantastical and culturally iconic elements, but you can choose to see it as a movie that tries to say nothing about America.
But if you do believe that the movie has a message, I can't see how it's not a reactionary one.

 

[itsinmyveins]

You're the one who INSISTED on concentrating on my hate for the music, plus, as I already said, the fact that there is music is not the problem. It's the fact that the music sucks.

That was more of a joke, man.

And no, it doesn't suck. But I guess that part's pretty much subjective :O

It's easier to enjoy lots of things if you don't think about their subtext at all.

First of all, I didn't say that. Anyways, maybe the notion of it "just" being a story without any heavy laid subtext about the state of the world and etc?

Have you even tried to dismantle the arguments that this movie is conservative/republican propaganda, other than "LOL vaguely defined"? I'm not even saying I agree with this viewpoint (although I'm sure you'll blindly assume I do), but have you really attempted to respond to it?

Seriously, I swear some of you people can't accept opposite points of view just because they aren't yours.

I think I've answered the most arguments in this thread so far, haven't I? And as far as "LOL vaguely defined" -- what? I've been pretty clear with all I've said while answering. If not, you're welcome to point it out.

I don't agree with you and of course you're entitled to your opinion. But we can still discuss it, can't we?

I always avoided this thread and just clicking on the last page, I'm glad I did. Jesus Christ at some of you people.

I hope you're not looking at me dude

 

[ari]

Actually, the fact that the movie make the point that she got into the counter culture because she was abused and confused support my point.

Again, you can take it as nothing more than a single person's story, you can see the movie as having no message. I have to wonder why would you put so many logic defining, fantastical and culturally iconic elements, but you can choose to see it as a movie that tries to say nothing about America.
But if you do believe that the movie has a message, I can't see how it's not a reactionary one.

The message is "you can do what ever you set your mind on". Jenny, Bubba, and Ms.Gump expecially repeated this throughout the movie to Forrest. In fact, i believe it was on Jenny's and Ms's. Gumps death beds they repeated it to him.

I believe you are wrong. You're assuming that this movie had an agenda but none of the filmmakers ever even stated or even aimed for such premise.

Mistakingly though? maybe.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I hope you're not looking at me dude

I wasn't. Forrest Gump has lots of themes and It can be argued that those themes fall into certain views of the world and biases that any writer has. But to argue the major message behind Forrest Gump is somehow a purposeful validation of only conservative values is to basically misunderstand the notion of what liberal and conservatives values are or tightly constrain them. You have to willfully ignore a lot and be reading a lot into things to come to that conclusion imo and that is with the full acknowledgement that some of the hippies and black panthers don't come off too well in the film. It still has as much liberal in it as conservative despite whatever Newt Gingrich says. I would argue there is plenty of evidence for both sides so if anything the movie is moderate.

 

[ari]

I wasn't. Forrest Gump has lots of themes and It can be argued that those themes fall into certain views of the world and biases that any writer has. But to argue the major message behind Forrest Gump is somehow a purposeful validation of only conservative values is to basically misunderstand the notion of what liberal and conservatives values are or tightly constrain them. You have to willfully ignore a lot and be reading a lot into things to come to that conclusion imo and that is with the full acknowledgement that some of the hippies and black panthers don't come off too well in the film. It still has as much liberal in it as conservative despite whatever Newt Gingrich says.

"CLAPS"

 

[itsinmyveins]

Actually, the fact that the movie make the point that she got into the counter culture because she was abused and confused support my point.

But it doesn't! During that time period counter culture was big so it's kind of given she'd end up in one since a lot of people did. What they show is how depressed she is and how she's taking drugs and all, but that hasn't really anything to do with her surrounding, does it? She looked for a way to feel better/escape, but never found it there, that's it. It doesn't have to be a point about it being bad, and as I've already said -- Forrest calls Lennon, pretty much an icon of that time period, a "nice man".

If they'd shown her being successful in career but with an abusive husband and still depressed, would you have seen that as a point about capitalism too?

Again, you can take it as nothing more than a single person's story, you can see the movie as having no message. I have to wonder why would you put so many logic defining, fantastical and culturally iconic elements, but you can choose to see it as a movie that tries to say nothing about America.
But if you do believe that the movie has a message, I can't see how it's not a reactionary one.

Hey, Forrest busts Nixon, he meets Lennon who he likes, he talks at an anti-war rally, he fights through life like an underdog. Yes, surely, he must be republican.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I wasn't. Forrest Gump has lots of themes and It can be argued that those themes fall into certain views of the world and biases that any writer has. But to argue the major message behind Forrest Gump is somehow a purposeful validation of only conservative values is to basically misunderstand the notion of what liberal and conservatives values are or tightly constrain them. You have to willfully ignore a lot and be reading a lot into things to come to that conclusion imo and that is with the full acknowledgement that some of the hippies and black panthers don't come off too well in the film. It still has as much liberal in it as conservative despite whatever Newt Gingrich says. I would argue there is plenty of evidence for both sides so if anything the movie is moderate.

I agree with you.

 

[ari]

Forrest Gump didn't even knew what he was doing most of the time. Im pretty sure he could care less about his views of the world in politics or whats right or wrong. He just did what he wanted to do.

and i just listened to the commentators off the special edition dvd. The movie was largely around pop culture, taboo, and the social culture of america between the eras. So you guys should really gtfo with that conservative shit.

 

[Stoney Mason]

On a separate note outside of the scenes where he is digitally inserted into old footage, Forrest Gump is one of the few films where I like the CG work because it is subtle and used to enhance things instead of create Spiderman type shit. Officer Dan being legless and that scene where the boat destroys the dock which wasn't even there in real life is the way CG should be used for the most part in my opinion. Where it isn't even noticeable.

Forrest Gump didn't even knew what he was doing most of the time. Im pretty sure he could care less about his views of the world in politics or whats right or wrong. He just did what he wanted to do.

and i just listened to the commentators off the special edition dvd. The movie was largely around pop culture, taboo, and the social culture of america between the eras. So you guys should really gtfo with that conservative shit.

I think what some of them are arguing is that there is an "unwritten" sort of message to the movie. I disagree with that also or at least in the narrow interpretation of it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I wasn't. Forrest Gump has lots of themes and It can be argued that those themes fall into certain views of the world and biases that any writer has. But to argue the major message behind Forrest Gump is somehow a purposeful validation of only conservative values is to basically misunderstand the notion of what liberal and conservatives values are or tightly constrain them. You have to willfully ignore a lot and be reading a lot into things to come to that conclusion imo and that is with the full acknowledgement that some of the hippies and black panthers don't come off too well in the film. It still has as much liberal in it as conservative despite whatever Newt Gingrich says. I would argue there is plenty of evidence for both sides so if anything the movie is moderate.

I agree about it being moderate. It's nothing more than a look at a man's journey through America and his interactions with various people of various opinions. And I'll never buy the idea that Jenny was some liberal free willed straw man for the writers/director to knock around and eventually kill to make a political point. Jenny was a victim of an abusive father and broken childhood, not the political views of the film's creators who are on record having said the film has no conservative agenda.

Spoiler

Excessive drugs and sex are bad, get over it hippies!

 

[Chichikov]

Stoney Mason, ItsInMyVeins -
As I already said in this thread, I use the words conservative and progressive in the pure sense of the word, not the GOP vs. DNC bullshit they have devolved to.
Forest Gump represent a yearning for simple old American values, yes, they include decency (so thinking that Lennon is "a nice man" or rejecting Watergate is totally inline with them) and the belief that if you try hard and set your mind you can achieve anything, AKA the American dream.

Note that I don't think that using conservative themes makes a movie automatically bad, Capra use them to great effect at times.

Forrest Gump didn't even knew what he was doing most of the time. Im pretty sure he could care less about his views of the world in politics or whats right or wrong. He just did what he wanted to do.

Come on now, this is not a documentary, Gump is the voice of the movie makers.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Stoney Mason, ItsInMyVeins -
As I already said in this thread, I use the words conservative and progressive in the pure sense of the word, not the GOP vs. DNC bullshit they have devolved to.
Forest Gump represent a yearning for simple old American values, yes, they include decency (so thinking that Lennon is "a nice man" or rejecting Watergate is totally inline with them) and the belief that if you try hard and set your mind you can achieve anything, AKA the American dream.

Well I think that follows more in line with a discussion on whether the movie is in line with Post-moderism or modernism thinking or something in between.

Those can be fairly generic catch all terms also but conservative and liberal have too many other connotations for my taste.

People like Gingrich or other conservative politicians may rally around a film like Gump versus Pulp Fiction which is clearly post modern because they want to present a false dilemma as to the direction of cinema and society.

 

[ari]

I like how the film even pointed out that her dad was abusive and made her childhood hell for atleast 30 minutes of the entire movie. They practically wave it at us when she returned back to her home and confronted the demons she was running away from. Even fucking Gump knew this because he tore the house down towards the end.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Forest Gump represent a yearning for simple old American values, yes, they include decency (so thinking that Lennon is "a nice man" or rejecting Watergate is totally inline with them) and the belief that if you try hard and set your mind you can achieve anything

That's not the american dream, that's everyones dream

And I don't see that as backwards, conservative or etc. It's just being plain nice and doing what you dream of. It's not political at all, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Karma Kramer]

The Shawshank Redemption was a far better film. It doesn't surprise me though that Forest Gump won, due to some of its political under-tones.

 

[ari]

The Shawshank Redemption was a far better film. It doesn't surprise me though that Forest Gump won, due to some of its political under-tones.

uhh, shawshank bombed hard at the box office and really was overlooked by everybody. Forrest gump's hype was like 10 times more then any film to win the award that year anyway.

Sure in retrospect you can say shawshank should win, but at the time it was all gump.

 

[Chichikov]

Well I think that follows more in line with a discussion on whether the movie is in line with Post-moderism or modernism thinking or something in between.

Those can be fairly generic catch all terms also but conservative and liberal have too many other connotations for my taste.

First of all I'm pretty sure I've never said liberal, I said progressive.
Also, Post-modernism is as overloaded as the terms I used and probably more misunderstood.
But really, while that's a different discussion, I can't see how someone can argue that Forest Gump is a modernist movie, and it sure has some post-modernist themes.

That's not the american dream, that's everyones dream

Wanting to succeed is everyone's dream, the belief that anyone can is the American version of it.

 

[Karma Kramer]

uhh, shawshank bombed hard at the box office and really was overlooked by everybody. Forrest gump's hype was like 10 times more then any film to win the award that year anyway.

Sure in retrospect you can say shawshank should win, but at the time it was all gump.

I guess... but I was simply just pointing out Forest is overrated in my opinion. Forest got big because of its political under-tones. It is also a very good movie "duh"... but is very overrated.

 

[ari]

I guess... but I was simply just pointing out Forest is overrated in my opinion. Forest got big because of its political under-tones. It is also a very good movie "duh"... but is very overrated.

I don't think any critic put this film on there greatest list that year and it barely crack the 200 list of all time movies ever.

Where should the "overrate" part come in?

 

[itsinmyveins]

Because it won a shitload of Oscars, it's actually on the AFI's horrid Top 100 American movies list, it's on the imdb top 250, and, anecdotally, there are a shitload of rabid fans right here in this thread?

I wouldn't say rabid fans, though :O

 

[Stoney Mason]

The Shawshank Redemption was a far better film. It doesn't surprise me though that Forest Gump won, due to some of its political under-tones.

Since it's "Hollyweird" doing the voting, shouldn't the more liberal film win out in theory?

 

[Stoney Mason]

I wouldn't say rabid fans, though :O

I don't necessarily get that characterization either although I haven't gone though the thread. Pulp Fiction was my choice that year.

 

[Squeak]

Videogames are not art they're a toy. Can a toy be art? No. But can a toy have artistic elements? Perhaps.

I take it you don't think interactive stuff can be art? Like Ebert?
Great art has always been interactive, only the interaction was inside your mind.
Only recently has it become technically and economically sound to make real interactive art, although the first glimpses of it was back in the 50's and 60's with fluxus art.

 

[John Dunbar]

Because it won a shitload of Oscars, it's actually on the AFI's horrid Top 100 American movies list, it's on the imdb top 250, and, anecdotally, there are a shitload of rabid fans right here in this thread?

It deserves all that. <3

 

[Vyer]

Shawshank and Gump are both amazing.

I am grateful both of these are made and that I am able to enjoy them, and feel bad for those that do not. Great moments in filmmaking.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I don't necessarily get that characterization either although I haven't gone though the thread. Pulp Fiction was my choice that year.

I guess it's because I've been arguing back and forth pretty much through the whole thread, but I don't think I have said anything without basis or using quoted and examples. Oh, yeah, I accidentally called JAWS (when using it as a pretty crappy example) The Shark :lol

I like Pulp Fiction, but I'm one of those who prefers Resarvoir Dogs.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Of course you wouldn't. When you have people not agreeing on the interpretation what else do you call that?

Fixed. Like I said, I haven't gone through the thread post by post but the last page or so wasn't exactly presenting a great case for anybody to alter their opinion.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I don't necessarily get that characterization either although I haven't gone though the thread. Pulp Fiction was my choice that year.

I guess it's because I've been arguing back and forth pretty much through the whole thread, but I don't think I have said anything without basis or using quoted and examples. Oh, yeah, I accidentally called JAWS (when using it as a pretty crappy example) The Shark :lol

I like Pulp Fiction, but I'm one of those who prefers Resarvoir Dogs.

Of course you wouldn't. When you have people denying the possibility that someone could have a different opinion than them, what else do you call that?

Where have I been denying people their opinions? We had a short discussion about the movie and I've said plenty of times that I do udnerstand why some think it's "sentimental drivel". But regarding the political aspects of the movie, I've seen some pretty far fetched conclusions and of course that can lead to discussions. Stoney did a lot better job on summarizing my opinion about the movie earlier in the thread than I did, though.

 

[Stoney Mason]

OK, dude, seriously, go through the thread. I've never even taken sides on the "hidden conservative agenda" part, so don't assume I have, but anyway, there are people here who refuse to believe that somebody could POSSIBLY dislike Forrest Gump or certain aspects of it. Like, how dare you not like the music? It's impossibly brilliant! I just can't see how anyone could have a different opinion of it! etc. etc. (and no, ItsInMyVeins, I'm not talking about you.)

But whatever, keep trolling me without having read through the thread. At least you admit it.

You seem overly sensitive today for some reason so I'll exit the thread.

 

[Squeak]

I can get why someone can argue that FG is sappy and manipulative, but that's only because they are cynics wanting to see bad in everything.
FG was made with a pure heart and a lot of money. Very often those two don't go along but this is one of those rare cases in which it does.
And BTW if you don't like the soundtrack, you don't know what good music is, fact!

Zemeckis is one of the greatest moviemakers of the last 30 years. Every bit as good as Spielberg or Lucas. He shares the same knack for distilling pure adventure to intoxicating concentrations.
Used Cars, Back to the Future series, Romancing the Stone and I Wanna Hold Your Hand.
But sadly also a lot of stinkers, that sits really uncomfortably with the rest of his output.
It's like there is good Zemeckis and his evil lazy twin...

 

[itsinmyveins]

icarus-daedelus:

Meh, there are a few "MUST LOVE"-movies out there I think are a bit.. You know, not that good. So I'm kinda with you, in some way