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[C4Lukins]

That's quite a debate technique you've got going there, sport

I have never used it before. I figuired I was in deep **** already, maybe I could get away with it. Love I mean.

 

[Miniboss1232]

Also, Uncle Jesse ROCKS!!!

 

[Tristam]

You'd have to be a total lame-o to not realize that the market that bought HL2, Halo 2, GTA isn't going to suddenly dissappear when Wii Fit comes out. The demand will still be there. Calm down, step off the ledge. Everything's going to to be just fine.

I think Wii Fit pushed him over the edge. I can't be arsed to check through his post history, but I believe it was C4Lukins who, upon hearing the Wii Fit announcement, said "NOW YOU LOOK AT THIS NINTENDO FANS! Look at what you've done to the industry! Every time you've bragged about sales charts...you sit and you think long and hard about that! This is where your sales charts have gotten you! THE DEATH OF THE INDUSTRY!!!"

 

[titiklabingapat]

Most of the 'big blockbusters' that are not coming out on the the systems that is not Wii, which I know you're not targeting, are no better intellectually and thematically than the Mummy Returns and most have throngs of fans and will be commercially successful. Heck, we have people here making up make-believe classifications such as the 'big five' based entirely on a list of first party release schedule fed to them by corporate PR.

If you want to talk about 'good' games versus 'bad' commercial games, make a thread about that.

Heh. I would go even farther and say they have far more in common than they do with Wii Sports.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I had a pretty big crush on Lori Loughlin when I was a kid.

 

[ToxicAdam]

XAVIX 2.O IS NOT DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR HOBBY. STFU

 

[Fredescu]

The point about Full House, is that dumb successful shows propel years of other dumb shows. You stupid **** with an ugly avatar.

The point is stupid because of the amount of great shows there have been despite the destructive evil of the Olsen twins. If you don't recognise the avatar you don't know enough about television to comment on it.

 

[fernoca]

Is C4 trying to get banned again??

Funny, how he needs to clarify on this and other threads that:

And this is not even anti Wii.

To say stuff like:

Wii is complete dog shit. Fans of the Wii, are lying to themselves when they pretend to enjoy themselves while playing these dog shit games. I grew up on the NES.... The NES version of Baseball is a more sophisticated game then the version connected with Wii Sports. Not only did I swing the bat, I semi controlled the fielders, I stole bases, I threw the freaken ball to try and get the runner out..... I mean what the ****......

But, hey!

I am going to try and not make this an anti Wii topic.

 

[C4Lukins]

I think Wii Fit pushed him over the edge. I can't be arsed to check through his post history, but I believe it was C4Lukins who, upon hearing the Wii Fit announcement, said "NOW YOU LOOK AT THIS NINTENDO FANS! Look at what you've done to the industry! Every time you've bragged about sales charts...you sit and you think long and hard about that! This is where your sales charts have gotten you! THE DEATH OF THE INDUSTRY!!!"

That was me. That was the moment.

 

[Night_Trekker]

I am going to try and not make this an anti Wii topic.

The conversation is about, the idea, that inviting everyone else into our hobby does not necessarily benefit us. "Wow, now my grandmother no longer makes fun of me for playing Doom, because she is rocken the Wiimote."

All you have to do is look at things like MTV. Music is great, music is awesome, everyone agrees with that. MTV really fucking sucks though, and it is the biggest driving factor in the music industry today. That is what happens when you give your hobby to mainstream commercialism.

It is not important that they get us. I can share my experience with my mom. Trust me, I can find a lot of other shit to share with my family without stupifying my own hobby.

Just look at television, is it better with Full House or without it? Are we going to support Full House for the sake of keeping the dumbest humans alive entertained just for the sake of getting them on board with primetime television?

That is videogaming in ten years if you guys do not ball up. It is going to be a Cliffy B reality show, and an Oprah special on the Wii, and a film version of Animal Crossing.

Personally I do not give a shit if the rest of the world gets us. Video games are fun, let the rest of the world flow our way instead of us convincing them to do so.

You're totally off base here. Completely.

Like it or not, gaming as we have known it for the past few generations is not selling like it was. A lot of that (probably even most of it) is because of price, but it's also possible that people are getting tired of the same old thing and the price was just the final straw. Just look at the changing trends in Japanese sales.

Personally, I might have taken a generation or so off from gaming if something like the Wii hadn't happened. I really am tired of the overall lack of innovation, the same old stuff with a new coat of next-gen paint, and the price point of entry for the 360 and the PS3 are something I can't reasonably consider right now. Let's not even talk about HDTVs.

But that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about the idea that what Nintendo is doing is somehow harmful to gaming, and your basic point is (no offense intended) a simple-minded "mainstream = bad". Elitist nonsense. I can't see how that nice little feeling of exclusivity is worth creative stagnation, or the continued pigeonholing of our chosen hobby as worthless, inaccessible and brain-rotting. The Wii is changing all of those things. Maybe not at the rate I would have hoped (replacing button presses with vague, equally abstract waggle movements is not that innovative), but it is happening.

Yes, there's creative stuff being done on more traditional consoles too (in before Bioshock), but I think the Wii and the DS are making a lot of changes that are, like it or not, necessary for gaming as a whole to thrive and evolve.

 

[radios shipping overview]

So is the Wii making the Playstation generation feel like their tastes will soon no longer be relevant?

If so, those of us who started on 8- and 16-bit consoles say: Welcome to the party! Enjoy your bitter, bitter tears. You've got a long road ahead of you.

 

[Deku]

If I want to be elisist for the sake of elitisim, I'd have a lot more to cry about than Full House destroying TV. There are actually marvelous genres from the 90s that were killed off by the onset of the FPS drone generation and the all the brats with sephiroth avatars.

What? How can nothing not apeal to you? You have everything from a grand adventure game, to platforming at its finest. Fighting, and shooting, excite trucking to mini-gaming.

Some of you people are reaching so hard, youve jarred something in your brains.

Are you describing the Wii library? Maybe in 3 years, and its a Maybe. I quite like my DS and that's where I will spend most of my minimal non PC gaming time in the foreseeable future.
I am heavily anticipating Mario Galaxy but the library as a whole sucks, not that the 360 or PS3 is any better if you don't happen to like the game genres they have pigeonholed themselves into.

 

[Grayman]

I was really hoping this thread would be about games with small fan bases that are much better than the more popular games.

Like how UO and AC are still the closest games to a next gen MMO yet were the first and third mainstream ones on the market.

Or how whatever less known shooter is better than CS or halo.

 

[C4Lukins]

Is C4 trying to get banned again??

Funny, how he needs to clarify on this and other threads that:

To say stuff like:

But, hey!

Really it is the same opinion I had then. That gamers should promote fun games for themselves instead of games just making a lot of money for the sake of gaming earning the respect of others.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

This is definitely an advantage NPD has over MC. Things get to percolate so well. :lol

 

[fernoca]

Really it is the same opinion I had then. That gamers should promote fun games for themselves instead of games just making a lot of money for the sake of gaming earning the respect of others.

So you are trying to get banned?
Post-NPD and Bioshock and on the (nearly)eve of Metroid Prime 3?

 

[Link]

I don't care if it's mainstream... or obscure. I don't care about expanding the market or any of the crap. I just care about games I want to play.

What I see is this:
The two consoles that currently have the games I want to play and will want to play in the future are being beaten severely by a console that has literally nothing appealing to me now or in the future.
That worries me a little bit.

People that say shit like this aren't even bothering to look.

 

[legend166]

The thing is, these "non-games" that you're attributing the death of the industry to, aren't even that bad. Wii Sports is a great game. Brain Age and such are well made.

No one was calling the death of the industry when Enter the Matrix a billion copies.

 

[slidewinder]

Relax.

 

[radios shipping overview]

No one was calling the death of the industry when Enter the Matrix a billion copies.

Maybe you weren't!

 

[C4Lukins]

So you are trying to get banned?
Post-NPD and Bioshock and on the (nearly)eve of Metroid Prime 3?

No I am not trying to get banned. I like it here. Occasionally I lose it and say what I actually mean and hope it works out in the morning.

 

[Zombie James]

The idea that gaming isn't already mainstream with the 100+ million PSXs and 120+ million PS2s floating out there is so flawed. And that's not even taking into account the competition, handhelds, or PC gaming.

 

[Epiphyte]

If I want to be elisist for the sake of elitisim, I'd have a lot more to cry about than Full House destroying TV. There are actually marvelous genres from the 90s that were killed off by the onset of the FPS drone generation and the all the brats with sephiroth avatars.

Pour one out for the space flight sim

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I blame the people buying Guitar Hero: Rock the 80s.

You're killing the industry!

 

[Fredescu]

The idea that gaming isn't already mainstream with the 100+ million PSXs and 120+ million PS2s floating out there is so flawed.

Compared to movies or music it's not. Especially console gaming. The revenue figures showing the games industry makes more than movies highlights the price difference more than the popularity.

 

[C4Lukins]

The thing is, these "non-games" that you're attributing the death of the industry to, aren't even that bad. Wii Sports is a great game. Brain Age and such are well made.

No one was calling the death of the industry when Enter the Matrix a billion copies.

I do not think they are the death of the industry, I just think they are bad for us people who have been playing games for years. Even if you look at the most devote Nintendo fans, I doubt they are more exicted about Nintendogs, Brain Trainging, Wii Fit... over new real game announcements.

There is no way that Wii Fit excites you more then a new Pikimen, or Animal Crossing, or a new actual game. And if it does, you should be stabbed in the head. But I doubt it does so your head is ok. That is the simplistic arguement I am making. It does not benefit us videogamers if the Wii becomes the next step arobics machine. It completely fucks up the whole thing if Nintendo becomes the next Jazzersize.

 

[Jiggy]

So is the Wii making the Playstation generation feel like their tastes will soon no longer be relevant?

If so, those of us who started on 8- and 16-bit consoles say: Welcome to the party! Enjoy your bitter, bitter tears. You've got a long road ahead of you.

Pretty much. My paradise of turn-based RPGs, 2D sidescrollers, and vertical space shooters, all gone.

 

[Router]

I am going to try and not make this an anti Wii topic.

The conversation is about, the idea, that inviting everyone else into our hobby does not necessarily benefit us. "Wow, now my grandmother no longer makes fun of me for playing Doom, because she is rocken the Wiimote."

All you have to do is look at things like MTV. Music is great, music is awesome, everyone agrees with that. MTV really fucking sucks though, and it is the biggest driving factor in the music industry today. That is what happens when you give your hobby to mainstream commercialism.

It is not important that they get us. I can share my experience with my mom. Trust me, I can find a lot of other shit to share with my family without stupifying my own hobby.

Just look at television, is it better with Full House or without it? Are we going to support Full House for the sake of keeping the dumbest humans alive entertained just for the sake of getting them on board with primetime television?

That is videogaming in ten years if you guys do not ball up. It is going to be a Cliffy B reality show, and an Oprah special on the Wii, and a film version of Animal Crossing.

Personally I do not give a shit if the rest of the world gets us. Video games are fun, let the rest of the world flow our way instead of us convincing them to do so.

 

[legend166]

I do not think they are the death of the industry, I just think they are bad for us people who have been playing games for years. Even if you look at the most devote Nintendo fans, I doubt they are more exicted about Nintendogs, Brain Trainging, Wii Fit... over new real game announcements.

There is no way that Wii Fit excites you more then a new Pikimen, or Animal Crossing, or a new actual game. And if it does, you should be stabbed in the head. But I doubt it does so your head is ok. That is the simplistic arguement I am making. It does not benefit us videogamers if the Wii becomes the next step arobics machine. It completely fucks up the whole thing if Nintendo becomes the next Jazzersize.

But Wii Fit doesn't replace any of those games. Nintendo are still making Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Pikmin, etc. If you did a comparison of the amount of "real" game releases to non-games, between the GCN-era and now, it would probably be exactly the same. Hell, I'm going to do that if Wikipedia has a list.

 

[Night_Trekker]

There is no way that Wii Fit excites you more then a new Pikimen, or Animal Crossing, or a new actual game. And if it does, you should be stabbed in the head. But I doubt it does so your head is ok. That is the simplistic arguement I am making. It does not benefit us videogamers if the Wii becomes the next step arobics machine. It completely fucks up the whole thing if Nintendo becomes the next Jazzersize.

You know what? Go right ahead and take the criticism from my first post as an insult.

 

[Fredescu]

There is no way that Wii Fit excites you more then a new Pikimen, or Animal Crossing, or a new actual game. And if it does, you should be stabbed in the head.

It did until I discovered it was based on another peripheral. My dream of the excerise based RPG was shot to shit. Maybe next gen.

 

[C4Lukins]

But Wii Fit doesn't replace any of those games. Nintendo are still making Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Pikmin, etc. If you did a comparison of the amount of "real" game releases to non-games, between the GCN-era and now, it would probably be exactly the same. Hell, I'm going to do that if Wikipedia has a list.

It is what they are promoting though, and that is what is different. And you know that.

 

[Mariah Carey]

All you have to do is look at things like MTV. Music is great, music is awesome, everyone agrees with that. MTV really fucking sucks though, and it is the biggest driving factor in the music industry today. That is what happens when you give your hobby to mainstream commercialism.

Actually, I'd argue that one of the biggest failings of pop music is that it's so involved in "teens Teens TEENS" that it isn't mainstream. How can something possibly be mainstream if it's targeting such a limited audience? I'm digressing, however.

It is not important that they get us. I can share my experience with my mom. Trust me, I can find a lot of other shit to share with my family without stupifying my own hobby.

Just look at television, is it better with Full House or without it? Are we going to support Full House for the sake of keeping the dumbest humans alive entertained just for the sake of getting them on board with primetime television?

That is videogaming in ten years if you guys do not ball up. It is going to be a Cliffy B reality show, and an Oprah special on the Wii, and a film version of Animal Crossing.

Personally I do not give a shit if the rest of the world gets us. Video games are fun, let the rest of the world flow our way instead of us convincing them to do so.

Who is "they?" Who is "us?" You need to get over these "gamers" and "non-gamer" labels as if they are pre-ordained at birth. Everyone can play videogames, and it's just a matter of finding the type of games they like. It just so happens that a lot of people didn't care much for the games that were coming out in the past ten years, and a lot of people stopped playing videogames. I damn near stopped playing videogames. What's happening now is a certain videogame company is helping people remember just what it is that's appealing about videogames in the first place.

It seems at the moment you're jumping up and down, fuming "The industry needs to cater to what I want!" And what happens when they keep giving you what you want, exactly what you want it and how you want it? Soon they'll come up with the perfect videogame machine for you... and no one else.

The sooner you realize there's a whole world out there full of people who can like videogames for completely different--- and perfectly acceptable--- reasons than you do and these tastes are just as important as your own the sooner you'll stop making an ass out of yourself.

 

[Miniboss1232]

I do not think they are the death of the industry, I just think they are bad for us people who have been playing games for years. Even if you look at the most devote Nintendo fans, I doubt they are more exicted about Nintendogs, Brain Trainging, Wii Fit... over new real game announcements.

There is no way that Wii Fit excites you more then a new Pikimen, or Animal Crossing, or a new actual game. And if it does, you should be stabbed in the head. But I doubt it does so your head is ok. That is the simplistic arguement I am making. It does not benefit us videogamers if the Wii becomes the next step arobics machine. It completely fucks up the whole thing if Nintendo becomes the next Jazzersize.

Does Wii Fit really have to?

And if I recall correctly, it seems like we're about to get the best Metroid Prime game ever, the best 3d Mario ever, possibly the best Smash Bros. ever. What EXACTLY is your point?

It is what they are promoting though, and that is what is different. And you know that.

Month of Metroid says 'hi'.

 

[ethelred]

It is what they are promoting though, and that is what is different. And you know that.

Does it matter what they're promoting? I mean, if we look to the DS as an example, we can see that the non-game trend has not only not stopped Nintendo from making games in its classic franchises (new EAD-devved Mario which the GBA never got, new EAD-devved Zelda which the GBA never got...), we see that the change in "promotion" isn't hurting the success of those games either. Zelda's selling wonderfully. NSMB is one of the best selling Mario games (not to put too fine a point on it...). Nothing is being killed or jeopardized. You're just being melodramatic.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I kinda want to get excited about Wii Fit to spite people.

 

[legend166]

With the promoting, how so?

Just because they don't care about enthusiast managzines and websites?

If anything, their marketing this gen for core titles has been much better than last gen. Remember clean is better than dirty? Those ridiculous ads with people in a cube?

 

[Davidion]

I do not think they are the death of the industry, I just think they are bad for us people who have been playing games for years. Even if you look at the most devote Nintendo fans, I doubt they are more exicted about Nintendogs, Brain Trainging, Wii Fit... over new real game announcements.

There is no way that Wii Fit excites you more then a new Pikimen, or Animal Crossing, or a new actual game. And if it does, you should be stabbed in the head. But I doubt it does so your head is ok. That is the simplistic arguement I am making. It does not benefit us videogamers if the Wii becomes the next step arobics machine. It completely fucks up the whole thing if Nintendo becomes the next Jazzersize.

Just because some of us aren't more excited about Nintendogs, Brain Training, and Wii Fit (which was, actually, kind of fun to play), doesn't mean we're going to run around and scream about how "real gaming" is dying. Oddly enough, the kind of ignorant and close-minded hubris that's involved in making such statements tends to permeate around self-proclaimed "hardcore gamers". Where the hell does a nobody like you find the gall to tell the rest of us what games to get excited over or not?

It's funny how exacerbated you're getting at how Nintendo is promoting casual gaming when that very argument demonstrates how you can't see any further beyond the people in the mainstream that you so egotistically defame. Anyone who does a lick of research can see that "hardcore" games still has its audience and sales for the quality titles has not somehow been decimated, but rather now have to share the gaming spectrum with casual games. And let's not kid ourselves, that's the real problem: that you now have to share your precious gaming niche with people who didn't really get this hobby before and you're losing attention and the eminence of your "gamer" status. Yuck it up, because that's the way it's going to be from now no matter how much you whine and bitch. As already mentioned in this thread, your argument that the mainstream will somehow wreck gaming doesn't hold a drop of water, because if it did, then gaming died with the PS1 long ago.

In other words, kindly stop being a clueless petulant brat.

 

[Baryn]

Sony made gaming mainstream in the 90s with the PSone. Now stop bellyaching because games are coming out that you don't want to play.

Look to PERSONA 3 no alpha mom is going to touch that from a lightyear away.

 

[Infernal Monkey]

I CAN'T POSSIBLY ENJOY SOMETHING ONCE IT BECOMES POPULAR.

 

[Duke Togo]

:lol

 

[C4Lukins]

Does it matter what they're promoting? I mean, if we look to the DS as an example, we can see that the non-game trend has not only not stopped Nintendo from making games in its classic franchises (new EAD-devved Mario which the GBA never got, new EAD-devved Zelda which the GBA never got...), we see that the change in "promotion" isn't hurting the success of those games either. Zelda's selling wonderfully. NSMB is one of the best selling Mario games (not to put too fine a point on it...). Nothing is being killed or jeopardized. You're just being melodramatic.

The last great Mario game was Mario 64. That was about ten years ago, and that should piss you off. I know it pisses me off. In ten years they made Mario Sunshine, and a dozen remakes of other mario games. To me that is fucking annoying. Even with New Super Mario Bros. Finally I thought I would get some old school love. And they made a game that was more simplistic then Super Mario 2. The last good Starfox game was on the 64. The last good Kart game on a console was on the 64. The last signifigant innovation we saw with a Zelda game was on the 64. They have been reselling and rehashing the same shit to you guys for 5 plus years now, and your replacement games are these non games that everyone bitches about.

 

[Link]

Now you're complaining about Nintendo's games in general? Your argument is completely falling apart. I guess this wasn't an anti Wii thread, just an anti Nintendo one.

 

[Router]

The last great Mario game was Mario 64. That was about ten years ago, and that should piss you off. I know it pisses me off. In ten years they made Mario Sunshine, and a dozen remakes of other mario games. To me that is fucking annoying. Even with New Super Mario Bros. Finally I thought I would get some old school love. And they made a game that was more simplistic then Super Mario 2. The last good Starfox game was on the 64. The last good Kart game on a console was on the 64. The last signifigant innovation we saw with a Zelda game was on the 64. They have been reselling and rehashing the same shit to you guys for 5 plus years now, and your replacement games are these non games that everyone bitches about.

Stop posting.

Work up a clear argument/issue/complaint.

Think it over for a few days.

 

[Deku]

Now you're complaining about Nintendo's games in general? Your argument is completely falling apart. I guess this wasn't an anti Wii thread, just an anti Nintendo one.

C4Lukins wasn't complaining about commercialization of games to begin with. It was rather obvious, made only more obvious by how easily he derailed his own thread.

 

[Zilch]

The last great Mario game was Mario 64. That was about ten years ago, and that should piss you off. I know it pisses me off. In ten years they made Mario Sunshine, and a dozen remakes of other mario games. To me that is fucking annoying. Even with New Super Mario Bros. Finally I thought I would get some old school love. And they made a game that was more simplistic then Super Mario 2. The last good Starfox game was on the 64. The last good Kart game on a console was on the 64. The last signifigant innovation we saw with a Zelda game was on the 64. They have been reselling and rehashing the same shit to you guys for 5 plus years now, and your replacement games are these non games that everyone bitches about.

What does any of this have to do with the Wii, mainstream gamers, or anything in your original post? Your shit is falling apart so fast.

Besides, I remember plenty of backlash against the N64 versions of ALL the games you mention here. Same shit, different year.

edit: Nintendo's been reselling/rehashing their franchises since the NES. That's, like, the whole basis of their success.

 

[Galactic Fork]

The last signifigant innovation we saw with a Zelda game was on the 64. They have been reselling and rehashing the same shit to you guys for 5 plus years now, and your replacement games are these non games that everyone bitches about.

You're going to bring in the Phantom Hourglass fans, now. Then it's going to get real.

 

[Gigglepoo]

They have been reselling and rehashing the same shit to you guys for 5 plus years now, and your replacement games are these non games that everyone bitches about.

I am going to ignore this point because Pikmin and Picross are fun.

 

[Deku]

You're going to bring in the Phantom Hourglass fans, now. Then it's going to get real.

Ethelred is already here.

 

[FightyF]

What ever happened to predictability?