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Mainstream is not good
- Thread starter C4Lukins
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Karma Kramer
Banned
As long as creative hardcore developers remain in the industry... we don't have a lot to worry about. But the Wii has probably and will probably ruin gaming for me... if this sales trend continues. Microsoft and Sony will have no choice but to design their own Wii mote and they will have to price and market their console at the same audience as the Wii.
So basically the next Xbox could basically be an Xbox 360 + wii mote.
Its very possible I will be a PC gamer in 4 years.
So basically the next Xbox could basically be an Xbox 360 + wii mote.
Its very possible I will be a PC gamer in 4 years.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
Karma Kramer said:
AdmiralViscen said:
.
Karma Kramer
Banned
Narag said:
Possibly... unless Publishers ass everything up and only fund more simplistic casual games. Which can be creative and original... but my game preferences is epic games... with awesome stories, online multiplayer, and excellent visuals.
SillyMikey
Banned
TheGreatDave said:
I think want he means is that gaming aimed at the casuals is bad for us.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
God i would love to know who considers themselves hardcore. Man if it was up to me more than half of the people bitching aren't hardcore.
1. If your first rpg was FF7 you are not hardcore unless you were really young, which automatically makes you casual.
2. If you never modded config.cfg I don't think you're hardcore.
3. If you have a natural tendency to avoid crossing streets when you see a bird you're hardcore.
4. If you ran a Gemini 2600 compatible system on a 9v battery beacuse your power supply melted, you're fucking hardcore.
Those of you putting down Wii fans....A lot of you came in gaming during the last great mass casual migration, PSX. Remember your place! Sometimes GAF reminds me of kids who go
"OH man remember when music kicked ass? They don't make bands like Linkin park anymore"
1. If your first rpg was FF7 you are not hardcore unless you were really young, which automatically makes you casual.
2. If you never modded config.cfg I don't think you're hardcore.
3. If you have a natural tendency to avoid crossing streets when you see a bird you're hardcore.
4. If you ran a Gemini 2600 compatible system on a 9v battery beacuse your power supply melted, you're fucking hardcore.
Those of you putting down Wii fans....A lot of you came in gaming during the last great mass casual migration, PSX. Remember your place! Sometimes GAF reminds me of kids who go
"OH man remember when music kicked ass? They don't make bands like Linkin park anymore"
AdmiralViscen
Banned
The funny part is that when DS started bringing in the casuals, it started pushing the sales of normal games to new heights.
The other funny part is that if PS360 are profitable, which seems likely (at least for 360), they won't have to do as radical a change as Nintendo did with Wii. They will want to keep their own userbases happy as well as leeching off Nintendo's.
The other funny part is that publishers HAVEN'T been cancelling big games to make minigame fests. There are like 3 minigame fests from third parties on Wii.
The other funny part is that even if publishers somehow forced all their developers to make only 'shitty games,' those developers would likely break off and go to game-focused production houses or create their own.
The other funny part is that people imagine that the 120M+ PS2 gamers are going to disappear somehow. Whether they buy Wii, 360, or PS3, someone is going to have to feed their gaming hunger.
The other funny part is that traditional games have been selling better than 'nongames' on Wii. Brain Academy bombed the same month RE4 broke Capcom's expectations. Hello?
It's all so fucking stupid.
The other funny part is that if PS360 are profitable, which seems likely (at least for 360), they won't have to do as radical a change as Nintendo did with Wii. They will want to keep their own userbases happy as well as leeching off Nintendo's.
The other funny part is that publishers HAVEN'T been cancelling big games to make minigame fests. There are like 3 minigame fests from third parties on Wii.
The other funny part is that even if publishers somehow forced all their developers to make only 'shitty games,' those developers would likely break off and go to game-focused production houses or create their own.
The other funny part is that people imagine that the 120M+ PS2 gamers are going to disappear somehow. Whether they buy Wii, 360, or PS3, someone is going to have to feed their gaming hunger.
The other funny part is that traditional games have been selling better than 'nongames' on Wii. Brain Academy bombed the same month RE4 broke Capcom's expectations. Hello?
It's all so fucking stupid.
Karma Kramer
Banned
Narag said:
No they won't... the difference between the music industry and gaming industry is their are no restrictions for music bands to create (i guess) unpopular music. The gaming industry/developers basically are pigeon holed by the console manufactures because Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo decide what games they want to have on their console.
If they all decide party games ect... is where the most consumers/money is at... then they will all design a cheap, affordable, and casual friendly console... that caters to that audience. Their first party games will push this marketing goal... and 3rd party publishers will push for casual games because... again... that is the new market.
Also this thread:
Its really not the new market, its some fantastic dystopia gamers present in bizarre all or nothing propositions where only party games sell in the top 10 month to month and anything that is beyond 480i is destined to bomba.
Going by this I'd be more concerned by a future of only college football games.
Karma Kramer said:
Its really not the new market, its some fantastic dystopia gamers present in bizarre all or nothing propositions where only party games sell in the top 10 month to month and anything that is beyond 480i is destined to bomba.
Going by this I'd be more concerned by a future of only college football games.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
Karma Kramer said:
So you predict that Sony and Microsoft will go even FURTHER towards casuals than Nintendo has? Because even with Wii Sports and Brain Academy, we've got Super Paper Mario, ET, TP, MP3, SMG, SSBB all in one year. You predict that Sony/MS will abandon Halo/God of War/Ratchet/a thousand other games to make only minigames? Nintendo still has a 2:1 split on normal and casual games here.
And wtf @ console manufacturers specifically deciding what games can be on their console. Not only are publishers free to make non-AO shit, but did you miss Reggie pursuing Take Two for more mature content? What makes you think MS/Sony will somehow go even further than Nintendo, and risk their current fanbases to do so?
edit: Fuck this, it's not worth it. In 3-4 years when everything is largely the same, I'll win.
Count Dookkake
Member
Doc Holliday said:Those of you putting down Wii fans....A lot of you came in gaming during the last great mass casual migration, PSX. Remember your place! Sometimes GAF reminds me of kids who go
"OH man remember when music kicked ass? They don't make bands like Linkin park anymore"
Too true.
Karma Kramer said:
while some publishers will definitely decide to increase their focus on casual or pick up and play gaming, it is most certainly not the all-or-nothing proposition you are making it out to be. as long as there is a sizable audience for cinematic gaming, there will be more than enough games to serve that audience.
Karma Kramer
Banned
AdmiralViscen said:
I can see the Wii being so casual friendly in 4 years... that most games will have to cater to that audience by providing simplistic gameplay.
Publishers go where the money is...
Karma Kramer
Banned
Odysseus said:
Yeah true... but shit.. its still worse than the reverse.
Just think of what Shane was talking about yesterday about Metroid Prime 3 maybe should have been designed to be more friendly towards moms...
This could very well be a possibility in a few years... if the casual market is the large majority of the Wii audience. Hardcore gamers won't be able to keep up or give enough support to the games they like.
SillyMikey
Banned
I don't think mainstream gaming is bad. Not yet anyway. But if every game that comes out looks and plays like Wii sports, then ill start getting worried.
Count Dookkake
Member
C4Lukins said:
Recognizing Fredescu's avatar would probably lend credence to your age and experience posturing.
Here's a hint:
He's not an old one
Karma Kramer said:
Its stuff like this that makes me realize just how many people out there have no idea what they are talking about. Somehow, every Wii thread just breaks down into "Wii is killing gaming" and nobody ever listens. Yeah, I know, I shouldn't expect anything more but give it a rest already. Just the same stupid arguments over and over again no matter how many times people destroy them.
Are you saying that since Wii has more casual games than the other systems, everyone will stop liking anything else?! The market will just disappear? Did you even see my previous point about how the increase in costs for the more graphically capable consoles will force games to appeal to a wider (aka "mainstream") audience to be profitable (or just be totally amazing, which isn't a bad thing)? Do you people think about what you type?
I shouldn't get on these forums anymore without a big rum and coke at the ready.
Doc Holliday said:God i would love to know who considers themselves hardcore. Man if it was up to me more than half of the people bitching aren't hardcore.
1. If your first rpg was FF7 you are not hardcore unless you were really young, which automatically makes you casual.
2. If you never modded config.cfg I don't think you're hardcore.
Those of you putting down Wii fans....A lot of you came in gaming during the last great mass casual migration, PSX. Remember your place! Sometimes GAF reminds me of kids who go
"OH man remember when music kicked ass? They don't make bands like Linkin park anymore"
:lol :lol :lol
Quoted, for, truth.Always remember to back up your .ini files before you mod them for cheating kids!
C4Lukins said:
The "dumbification" of the industry is innevitable. You will have to bear with it. My only personal concern is that it goes fast. Dangerously fast.
Publishers really are jumping boats bery fast and we are an industry of trends even more than music and movies because games are ephemere. In the music industry it's still possible to always find great and artistic music because the industry is sooo huge that there is 2 crowds really: Shit music and real music. (Shit category making the monies 'cause general taste is dumb and bad.)
Same happen with the movies, it's Hollywood and shit stuff making the monies 'cause the general taste is fucking bad. But the industry is huge enough so you can always find a good movie.
Now with videogames, we are STARTING to get big. We are NOT YET at the point where there really is 2 crowds. Most small publishers are dying and pulling original ideas is still very difficult. Only an handfull of artistic games had good sales last gen (like Katarami and Collosus). If the "dumbification" of videogames is going too fast, it willl affect our hobby. It could affect it horribly. If we (hardcore gamers) are voting with our money and supporting good videogames the more we can, we will contribute in slowing down the process and help creating "the 2 crowds" that would be the sake of this industry.
Before Nintendo re-invented the (console) game industry with the NES we had pac-man, space invaders and asteroids games for every platform, and each 'next generation' would introduce another pac-man, space invaders and asteroids, just with improved graphics and maybe a better controller. Since the NES (I think) everything changed, each generation had a new 'favorite genre', in the 8-bit generation platformers were the hotness. In the 16-bit generation it was fighters and beat'm ups I think. In the 32-bit generation it was racers, then first person shooters in the next generation.
My personal favorite genre (point & click adventures) have been killed by other genres that don't interest me in the least (first person shooters). But there were always other games for me. I learned to appreciate strategy games and RPG's. This 'current' generation will probably introduce another popular genre. That is okay, that's how it has always been.
My personal favorite genre (point & click adventures) have been killed by other genres that don't interest me in the least (first person shooters). But there were always other games for me. I learned to appreciate strategy games and RPG's. This 'current' generation will probably introduce another popular genre. That is okay, that's how it has always been.
BlackTyrano
Member
I think C4Lukins is whats dumb. The industry would be better off if C4Lukins didn't exist.
karasu
Member
I agree with the OP. Little annoys me more than when a studio/dev tries to please the whole of the world. Games are really popular now of course, but there's always a breaking point. A point where they become too popular for their own good. Things always get a little gray when that happens. It doesn't matter if you're talking about movies, music, books, or video games. Going mainstream hurt original jazz artists in a lot of ways dude above me. If only because 'the masses' have a tendency to gravitate towards what's easily digestible. They don't want to be challenged or be forced to develop an ear/eye for what makes a particular form of media great. You think pop songs are three minutes long and full of nursery level rhyming schemes for the hell of it?
dude I know it hurt it, I'm a jazz musician, but it didnt kill it...We jazzers are still experimenting with our music and trying new things you know how jazz was treated before it went mainstream in the US? It was the music of black people and considered trash. There are pluses and minuses of going mainstream but jazz wasn't considered an art form until after it went mainstream.karasu said:
It's sad to say but mainstream helps a medium earn respect, of course the more complex attributes of it real remain niche, look what happened when Funk and R&B were created. They were the segments of music that were easier to grasp, Bebop is considered some of the most complex but was regarded as basically "devils music" back then. People didnt understand the complex theory...its sad when you have to sell out to become respected but its a process thats been happening for years.
It rarely right out kills previous aspects of the genre. As long as there are people who love developing things which are complex the death of what people see as "hardcore" videogames wont happen.
BlackTyrano
Member
karasu said:
That post is so vague i couldn't find any meaningful substance in it. Are we supposed to assume that everything you said is true of the videogame industry as it is now because you say so?
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Recently someone said that the Wii is like weed. Weed can be a gateway drug to some people. The Wii can be a gateway for some people who want more in videogames; whatever that means to them.
I see the Wii expanding the industry like the Playstation did. And that is a good thing.
I see the Wii expanding the industry like the Playstation did. And that is a good thing.
Flakster99
Member
AdmiralViscen said:
I laughed when I read this, however, I have to say I see a similar pattern developing as well.
Oh, and because I subscribe to the theory of different strokes for different folks..
Mariah Carey said:
Walter Matthau
Member
Good TV, movies, video games, and music all still exist. They all go through fads and cycles, but good times will always be had. If you look at the top 10 best sellers last generation, it's likely that you only enjoyed 2 or 3 of them.
Starchasing
Member
Ranger X said:
I beleive there is something that will help the market expand without lefting anyone behind:
Online distribution.
Risks and cost asociated with physical distribution are huge. I expect a lot fo genres to come back from the grave thanks to this: shoot em ups, graphical adventures. Also episodical content can reduce risk and costs.
Let me put an example. Imagine the OP dream game... a complex dramtic cinematic blah blah game... A team could design that game and finish just the first third of it. They could put it to download on PSN Wiiware or whatever... If the title if succesful they carry on with then next part. Everyone is happy.
This could also mean the comeback of games done by teams of 3 or 4 people, just like in the 8 bit days. Low development costs + low distribution costs + small demand = profits!
I've never understood why some people think "Nintendo" is the password to some secret little club that only gamers know about. Gaming has been mainstream since the NES. Everyone played Super Mario Brothers, Tecmo Bowl and Zelda. This is nothing new. It has less to do with hardcore vs mainstream than it does Nintendo trying to broaden the appeal to older generations that think games are purely kids toys.
kame-sennin
Member
Karma Kramer said:
Karma Kramer said:
Karma Kramer
Banned
kame-sennin said:
Danm right I am sad... If the gaming heads in the direction I think it will... I will be fucking pissed.
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