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[titiklabingapat]

Here's what etiolate said:

UNGROWN MEN THREATENED BY A TOY COMPANY

Do people not have any concept of the history of their hobby WHATSOEVER?

Before it was "Let's be iPod." it was "Let's be Hollywood"(As TToB mentioned). The industry sold itself out to he mainstream a long time ago. Newsflash: Kojima = appeal to Hollywood. Hollywood is mainstream. He is not hardcore. FF7 was an exception to the rule at the time. Cinematics were not liked by the hardcore. FF7 opened the door. Kojima fucked the door wide open. Guitar Hero and DDR opened a door, Wii fucked the door wide open.

For as long as I've been on GAF, I've always been amazed at how people I know and have seen use their brains in the OT, automatically turn that brain off when they enter the gaming forum. If you just use that thingie in your skull, you realize Nintendo hasn't done anything that Sony hasn't already done and you haven't already been a happy, willing participant of. If you all really cared soooo much about gaming, you wouldn't have bought your cinematic failedfilmschool pushbuttonxenotwatware.... but you did buy that stuff didn't you? You bought the new epic FPS, that didn't really push gameplay or genre in any new direction, but sure did look like Saving Private Ryan! Well guess what kids? You were selling out to the mainstream! Congahgiddeygrats!

You're all guilty of your own persecution. So guilty of it that whenever any of you cry about it, I can no longer laugh, but have to get shitfaced drunk to keep browsing the forum in a tolerable state.

Here's what GAF heard:

Still a great post though.

 

[ziran]

UNGROWN MEN THREATENED BY A TOY COMPANY

Do people not have any concept of the history of their hobby WHATSOEVER?

Before it was "Let's be iPod." it was "Let's be Hollywood"(As TToB mentioned). The industry sold itself out to he mainstream a long time ago. Newsflash: Kojima = appeal to Hollywood. Hollywood is mainstream. He is not hardcore. FF7 was an exception to the rule at the time. Cinematics were not liked by the hardcore. FF7 opened the door. Kojima fucked the door wide open. Guitar Hero and DDR opened a door, Wii fucked the door wide open.

For as long as I've been on GAF, I've always been amazed at how people I know and have seen use their brains in the OT, automatically turn that brain off when they enter the gaming forum. If you just use that thingie in your skull, you realize Nintendo hasn't done anything that Sony hasn't already done and you haven't already been a happy, willing participant of. If you all really cared soooo much about gaming, you wouldn't have bought your cinematic failedfilmschool pushbuttonxenotwatware.... but you did buy that stuff didn't you? You bought the new epic FPS, that didn't really push gameplay or genre in any new direction, but sure did look like Saving Private Ryan! Well guess what kids? You were selling out to the mainstream! Congahgiddeygrats!

You're all guilty of your own persecution. So guilty of it that whenever any of you cry about it, I can no longer laugh, but have to get shitfaced drunk to keep browsing the forum in a tolerable state.

Great post!

Ultimately highlighting how sad all this is.

Wii hate has nothing to do with the mainstream-ing of the industry, it's just some hardcore gamers crying about things not going their way.

 

[narcosis219]

Or Tetris? Tetris didn't kill the industry, and that's about as simple as you can get. There will always be an audience for the 'hardcore'.

Tetris was simple. But it was also complex. It was great in that you could pick up and play, but you would get your ass smeared by a skilled gamer because there are more complex mechanics in the game.

Mario Party 8? Nope. Cooking Mama? Nope.

Mainstream is good for us. But since the games are being dumbed down or aren't even games is bad. We need games like Tetris and Guitar Hero that benefit both the mainstream AND the hardcore.

 

[narcosis219]

Great post!

Ultimately highlighting how sad all this is.

Wii hate has nothing to do with the mainstream-ing of the industry, it's just some hardcore gamers crying about things not going their way.

I just don't like the fact that Mario Party 8 and such is selling so well that it encourages other companies to do very simplistic games and profit like mad. Once they find an easy way of making money, they will be reluctant to spend millions on a "AAA" title that won't sell as much as a mainstream audience game. Third parties anyway, and third parties are pumping out way more games than the first parties.

Oh, and party games are great and all, but some of us don't always invite people over to play games. I'm sure everyone here has gamed alone one time or another, and if the market goes the way of all party/simplistic/mini/non-games it won't be very fun.

 

[Tristam]

I just don't like the fact that Mario Party 8 and such is selling so well that it encourages other companies to do very simplistic games and profit like mad. Once they find an easy way of making money, they will be reluctant to spend millions on a "AAA" title that won't sell as much as a mainstream audience game. Third parties anyway, and third parties are pumping out way more games than the first parties.

Oh, and party games are great and all, but some of us don't always invite people over to play games. I'm sure everyone here has gamed alone one time or another, and if the market goes the way of all party/simplistic/mini/non-games it won't be very fun.

Mario Party games have always sold relatively well in the past, so I don't see Mario Party 8 inciting some new trend in game development. I dislike the Mario Party series in general, and I agree that the best "simple" games are deceptively simple, like Tetris. But I see no harm -- and in fact a great deal of good -- in expanding the audience. If Nintendo's own "casual" and "hardcore" projects (e.g., Wii Fit versus Super Mario Galaxy) can coexist side-by-side, I see no reason why any and all "casual" and "hardcore" games can't coexist side-by-side.

 

[John Dunbar]

I just don't like the fact that Mario Party 8 and such is selling so well that it encourages other companies to do very simplistic games and profit like mad.

What the hell? There's a reason why it's Mario Party 8.

 

[maxmars]

And again, ignoring the fact that they've (old consoles) existed in the past, there are even more convenient means of playing old games; and there has been for years.

One of my favorite things is playing arcade classics (not the dumbed down NES, etc. versions) via MAME on my PS3 using Linux. :X

Sorry, but I don't have a license for such arcade games. If you do, more power to you.

Also, the fact that other methods of doing the same thing have existed and exist, does not change the fact that the wii vc console has those features and I can enjoy them. That was all I was saying.

 

[narcosis219]

What the hell? There's a reason why it's Mario Party 8.

Dynasty Warriors is another franchise with a high number, and last time I checked it wasn't great. Dynasty Warriors 3 didn't seem very different than Dynasty Warriors 5, and neither were very good.

 

[John Dunbar]

Dynasty Warriors is another franchise with a high number, and last time I checked it wasn't great. Dynasty Warriors 3 didn't seem very different than Dynasty Warriors 5, and neither were very good.

I'm not talking about quality. I'm talking about sales. Mario Party 8 selling well is not a sign of people starting to make simple games, because Mario Parties have always sold well. Thus the eight game.

 

[Pureauthor]

Dynasty Warriors is another franchise with a high number, and last time I checked it wasn't great. Dynasty Warriors 3 didn't seem very different than Dynasty Warriors 5, and neither were very good.

Yeah, well, that's because you have bad taste. Dynasty Warriors is awesome.

 

[ziran]

I just don't like the fact that Mario Party 8 and such is selling so well that it encourages other companies to do very simplistic games and profit like mad. Once they find an easy way of making money, they will be reluctant to spend millions on a "AAA" title that won't sell as much as a mainstream audience game. Third parties anyway, and third parties are pumping out way more games than the first parties.

Oh, and party games are great and all, but some of us don't always invite people over to play games. I'm sure everyone here has gamed alone one time or another, and if the market goes the way of all party/simplistic/mini/non-games it won't be very fun.

But how is that happening to any extreme? From forums and the gaming media all the fear seems to stem from the potential of less big budget games being made not from them vanishing, and resentment from Wii succeeding because it's not their system of choice, which is just childish.

Also, you're being selective with your reasoning, depth and simplicity are subjective terms.

I've never understood the hate for what Nintendo is doing with DS and Wii beyond it being bitter tears from fanboys, because both systems offer a broad range of experiences. I'm a hardcore gamer, and have completed loads of games to 100% on every difficulty, like F-Zero X, GT, the Mario and Zelda games, Ghouls & Ghosts, etc, and play multiplayer games to a good standard, yet I also love titles like Nintendogs, Wii Sports and Animal Crossing. And, never in the 30 years I've been playing videogames has there been a time when all there has been is casual gaming.

While I agree the landscape is changing and less big budget hardcore games will be made, they won't disappear, its market is too big. Wii and DS and broadening the appeal of videogames, not narrowing it. Even Iwata said all types of games are needed for success, which is seen in the sw sales. The fact RE4 Wii has sold already ~500K in a couple of months shows you how ravenous the Wii audience is for hardcore experiences.

 

[BishopLamont]

Why do threads like these which is blatant Wii trolling are allowed, while threads of people showing Wii love are closed immediately? No I'm not talking about NPD or MC threads, but threads where people give their experiences on the Wii.

 

[AlteredBeast]

You guys are really, truly worried about this?

There has never been a better time to be a gamer than right now.

So many classics that have been backlogged into every classic system to play and amazing titles coming out for all systems, for hardcore and casual grandma alike.

Really...I can't see how you guys are worried at all.

 

[StevieP]

If mainstream means watered down overly simplistic control schemes and lack of depth than, yes it does suck. If it means cinematic aspects to games with solid (see: deep) gameplay, than that is fine with me.

Please, PLEASE read Etiolate's post. Please? Ah who am I kidding... Wii is killing gaming. As if the PSX era was the beacon of purity, here...

 

[dog$]

Why do threads like these which is blatant Wii trolling are allowed, while threads of people showing Wii love are closed immediately?

I request links to at least three such locked threads from within the last ... week.

Cinematics were not liked by the hardcore.

False.

 

[sprsk]

Hey hey hey!

 

[DDayton]

Cinematics were not liked by the hardcore.

False.

I don't know that it is... the "hard core" -hated- cinema scenes at first. I'd argue they slowly accepted them and then began to like them. It seems like folks were always whining about video clips in the past... although it all depends on the year, I suppose.

 

[sprsk]

Why do threads like these which is blatant Wii trolling are allowed, while threads of people showing Wii love are closed immediately? No I'm not talking about NPD or MC threads, but threads where people give their experiences on the Wii.

You know what, fuck this way of thinking. Stop acting like fucking victims when if you actually paid attention instead of posting bullshit conspiracy theories you'd see there's no anti-Nintendo conspiracy.

If you can't stand discussing topics like this, which believe it or not are important topics at this time of our hobbies history, then go to fucking Nintendo circle jerk town.

 

[dog$]

I would think it depends on the game. Seeing the Ms Pac Man skits for the billionth time probably isn't too enjoyable for most anyone. Many games since then have had attract mode and ending sequences that resonated with a lot of people, not to mention any sort of between stage cut-scenes or other non-interactive material.

One simple and old example for me would be Bionic Commando. I made a point to replay the game so often because I liked the way that the game concluded - and there's a few minutes of stuff to watch once you finish the game.

If anything, FF6 has just about as much cinematic stuff in it as FF7 does.

 

[DDayton]

I would think it depends on the game. Seeing the Ms Pac Man skits for the billionth time probably isn't too enjoyable for most anyone. Many games since then have had attract mode and ending sequences that resonated with a lot of people, not to mention any sort of between stage cut-scenes or other non-interactive material.

Hmm... I think the concept was that prerecorded video clips were getting tiresome to the "hard core" -- I think that resistance did unfold later on. However, you must admit that after the Sega CD fiasco and all that, there was a considerable annoyance on the part of ___ gamers towards video clip games.

 

[leroy hacker]

Six years ago Playstation triumphalists were saying that PSX finally made gaming mainstream. As recently as a year ago they said they the same thing about PS2. But now, "mainstream" seems to be their greatest fear.

I can't be the only one to not be entirely happy with what the market changes last generation meant. The Dreamcast died, Madden football become one of the most important franchises, EA became much more powerful, and Japanese games greatly decreased in significance.

I thought it would be interesting to look up past annual NPD charts to get a sense of how the market changed over the last generation. Unfortunately I couldn't find earlier charts right now. Also, these are all only based on single platform sales.
Edit: I found another chart, but I couldn't find a total chart for 1998 still:

1997(TRST):
1 Mario Kart 64 Nintendo 64/Nintendo
2 Star Fox 64 with Rumble Pak Nintendo 64/Nintendo
3 Super Mario 64 Nintendo 64/Nintendo
4 Diddy Kong Racing Nintendo 64/Nintendo
5 Goldeneye 007 Nintendo 64/Nintendo

6 Final Fantasy VII Sony PlayStation/Sony
7 NFL GameDay '98 Sony PlayStation/Sony
8 Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire Nintendo 64/Nintendo
9 Madden NFL '98 PlayStation/Electronic Arts
10 Crash Bandicoot PlayStation/Sony

11 Turok: Dinosaur Hunter Nintendo 64/Acclaim Entertainment
12 NBA Live '98 PlayStation Electronic/Arts
13 Cruisin' USA Nintendo 64/Nintendo
14 Tomb Raider 2 PlayStation/Eidos
15 Crash Bandicoot 2 PlayStation/Sony

16 Wave Race 64 Nintendo 64/Nintendo
17 NFL Quarterback Club '98 Nintendo 64/Acclaim Entertainment
18 Nascar '98 PlayStation/Electronic Arts
19 Jet Moto PlayStation/Sony
20 Madden 64 Nintendo 64/Electronic Arts


1999
1 Pokemon Blue
2 Pokemon Red
3 Pokemon Yellow
4 DK 64
5 Pokemon Pinball
6 Pokemon Snap
7 Gran Turismo
8 Super Smash Bros
9 Driver
10 Spyro the Dragon

2000
1 POKEMON SILVER GBC
2 POKEMON GOLD GBC
3 POKEMON YELLOW GBOY
4 POKEMON STADIUM
5 THE SIMS CD W95/W98
6 TONY HAWKS PRO SKATER PSX
7 LEGEND ZELDA MAJORA’S MASK N64
8 TONY HAWKS PRO SKATER N64
9 GRAN TURISMO 2 PSX
10 POKEMON BLUE GBOY

2001
1 PS2 Grand Theft Auto 3
2 PS2 Madden NFL 2002
3 GBC Pokemon Crystal
4 PS2 Metal Gear Solid 2
5 GBA Super Mario Advance
6 PS2 Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
7 PS2 Tony Hawks Pro Skater 3
8 PSX Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2
9 GBC Pokemon Silver
10 PSX Driver 2

2002
1 PS2: Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
2 PS2: Grand Theft Auto 3
3 PS2: Madden NFL 2003
4 GBA: Super Mario Advance 2
5 PS2: Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
6 PS2: Medal Honor Frontline
7 PS2: Spider-Man: The Movie
8 PS2: Kingdom Hearts
9 XBX: Halo
10 GCN: Super Mario Sunshine

2003
1 - MADDEN NFL 2004 - PS2 - ELECTRONIC ARTS
2 - POKEMON RUBY - GBA - NINTENDO OF AMERICA
3 - POKEMON SAPPHIRE - GBA - NINTENDO OF AMERICA
4 - NEED SPEED: UNDERGROUND - PS2 - ELECTRONIC ARTS
5 - ZELDA: THE WIND WAKER - GCN - NINTENDO OF AMERICA
6 - GRAND THEFT AUTO: VICE - PS2 - ROCKSTAR GAMES
7 - MARIO KART: DOUBLE - GCN - NINTENDO OF AMERICA
8 - TONY HAWK UNDERGROUND - PS2 - ACTIVISION
9 - ENTER THE MATRIX - PS2 - ATARI
10 - MEDAL HONOR RISING - PS2 - ELECTRONIC ARTS

2004
1 - Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - PS2 - Take II Interactive
2 - Halo 2* - XBX - Microsoft
3 - Madden NFL 2005* - PS2 - Electronic Arts
4 - ESPN NFL 2K5 - PS2 - Take II Interactive
5 - Need For Speed: Underground 2 - PS2 - Electronic Arts
6 - Pokemon Fire Red W/ Adapter - GBA - Nintendo of America
7 - NBA Live 2005 - PS2 - Electronic Arts
8 - Spider-Man: The Movie 2 - PS2 - Activision
9 - Halo - XBX - Microsoft
10 - ESPN NFL 2K5 - XBX - Take II Interactive

2005
1 MADDEN NFL 06 PS2 ELECTRONIC ARTS
2 POKEMON EMERALD GBA NINTENDO OF AMERICA
3 GRAN TURISMO 4 PS2 SONY COMPUTER ENT.
4 MADDEN NFL 06 XBX ELECTRONIC ARTS
5 NCAA FOOTBALL 06 PS2 ELECTRONIC ARTS
6 STAR WARS: BATTLEFRONT II PS2 LUCASARTS
7 MVP BASEBALL 2005 PS2 ELECTRONIC ARTS
8 STAR WARS EPISODE III: REVENGE OF THE SITH PS2 LUCASARTS
9 NBA LIVE 06 PS2 ELECTRONIC ARTS
10 LEGO STAR WARS PS2 EIDOS

2006

1. Madden NFL 07, PS2, EA—2.8 million
2. New Super Mario Bros., DS, Nintendo—2 million
3. Gears of War, Xbox 360, Microsoft—1.8 million
4. Kingdom Hearts II, PS2, Square Enix—1.7 million
5. Guitar Hero II, PS2, Activision—1.3 million
6. Final Fantasy XII, PS2, Square Enix—1.3 million
7. Brain Age: Train Your Brain, DS, Nintendo—1.1 million
8. Madden NFL 07, Xbox 360, EA—1.1 million
9. Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter, Xbox 360, Ubisoft—1 million
10. NCAA Football 07, PS2, EA—1 million

EA games in top 10
1997:1
1999:0
2000:1
2001:1
2002:2
2003:3
2004:3
2005:5
2006:3

Games of Japanese origin in top 10
1997:4
1999:8
2000:7
2001:5
2002:4
2003:4
2004:1
2005:2
2006:4

Madden's rank:
1997:9
1999:na
2000:na
2001:2
2002:3
2003:1
2004:3
2005:1
2006:1

 

[Galactic Fork]

Lists

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're not a Madden fan.

 

[leroy hacker]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're not a Madden fan.

I have no particular opinion about Madden. Rather, it's something that, like Nintendogs, I have absolutely no interest in. The implicit point of my post is that the "mainstream" has moved very far away from my interests so that I don't really care where it goes anymore.

 

[mclem]

The only reason that the Wii is even involved in this, is because it is being used as the platform to attract the outside people, and it is doing it quite well. I am asking the question, is that good for us people who love games?

Yes, because Atlus are thriving on Wii.

Blimey, that was easy.

 

[HylianTom]

UNGROWN MEN THREATENED BY A TOY COMPANY

Do people not have any concept of the history of their hobby WHATSOEVER?

Before it was "Let's be iPod." it was "Let's be Hollywood"(As TToB mentioned). The industry sold itself out to he mainstream a long time ago. Newsflash: Kojima = appeal to Hollywood. Hollywood is mainstream. He is not hardcore. FF7 was an exception to the rule at the time. Cinematics were not liked by the hardcore. FF7 opened the door. Kojima fucked the door wide open. Guitar Hero and DDR opened a door, Wii fucked the door wide open.

For as long as I've been on GAF, I've always been amazed at how people I know and have seen use their brains in the OT, automatically turn that brain off when they enter the gaming forum. If you just use that thingie in your skull, you realize Nintendo hasn't done anything that Sony hasn't already done and you haven't already been a happy, willing participant of. If you all really cared soooo much about gaming, you wouldn't have bought your cinematic failedfilmschool pushbuttonxenotwatware.... but you did buy that stuff didn't you? You bought the new epic FPS, that didn't really push gameplay or genre in any new direction, but sure did look like Saving Private Ryan! Well guess what kids? You were selling out to the mainstream! Congahgiddeygrats!

You're all guilty of your own persecution. So guilty of it that whenever any of you cry about it, I can no longer laugh, but have to get shitfaced drunk to keep browsing the forum in a tolerable state.

We're seeing lots of these elitist attitudes from self-anointed "hardcore gamers" with this paradigm shift, and it's often my perception that various gaming media outlets (I'm not naming names) are in a way seemingly condoning these views in their style/tone of coverage of this issue and the Wii.

Given that I didn't read many gaming magazines 10 years ago when the last paradigm shift was occurring, I'm a bit curious.. how resistant were various gaming media outlets to that change back then? Did they welcome the change in gaming, or were they more in-line with the self-anointed "hardcore gamers" of 1995?

 

[mclem]

Recognizing Fredescu's avatar would probably lend credence to your age and experience posturing.

Here's a hint:

Spoiler

He's not an old one

.

I know have a mental image of a sitcom in which Cthulhu, Shub-Niggurath and Yog-Sogthoth share a bedsit: With HILARIOUS consequences.

 

[chase]

The OP is exactly what's wrong with this forum. Full House isn't made for pseudo-intellectuals, intellectual-intellectuals, or teenagers wanting to fit in with the laissez-faire art crowd. It's for 11 year olds to watch with their parents. Not everything has to be fit to you. Get over yourself.

The Wii doesn't automatically make every game dumbed down for 11 year olds so the premise is flawed to begin with.

 

[genjiZERO]

Games of Japanese origin in top 10
1997:4/6(depending on how you count Rare games)
1999:8
2000:7
2001:5
2002:4
2003:4
2004:1
2005:2
2006:4

this is what saddens me the most. It seems to me that gaming is becoming more regionalistic - it's becoming increasingly more difficult to get games in the West that weren't tailored specifically for the West. What drew me originally gaming was that it was a gateway to Japanese culture - and if the trend continues, and the gateway closes, then I'll probably drop the hobby completely - I've always said if the NES had never came out, and PC gaming was the only way to do it, I'd never have gotten into it.

to the OP: Full House was geared towards 3rd graders you stupid shit - learn to be an adult

 

[mclem]

The amount of tunnel vision in this thread is headache-inducing. The best part about Wii is that it will eventually eliminate the faux-hardcore mindset either by alienating the idiots to the point that they finally quit forum-whoring game forums or proving that Wii games are just as good as any other type. I can't wait

Unfortunately, no. I've commented a few times about how what's happening now is similar to when the original Playstation came and kicked all sorts of ass, how FMV was slaughtering gaming, how loading times were the scourge of all that is Good and True in gaming. I had that mindset.

I've since been cured. I attempt to embrace everything and anything in gaming, and I'm not willing to instantly write something off just because it doesn't fit with my perception of what a Real Game should be. More to the point, I know the embracing of the mainstream won't do a blind bit of harm to the bulk of the industry as a whole, now, having seen it first-hand.

People who came into the industry with the Playstation, though they seem to have acquired the aforementioned faux-hardcore mindset. Assuming the Wii does end up being Top Console for this generation, some of them will remain bitter, some of them will quit gaming, but the hope is that the vast majority of them will learn to love the entirety of gaming, too.

But, on top of that... there's a good chance that some of the people coming in with the Wii - probably the younger ones, I'd *hope* the adults would be a bit more mature - will start to see problems with whatever new system takes Top Console from the Wii, or Wii2, or however long the dynasty lasts, start to see it as not playing Real Games. It's all just a little bit of history repeating.

 

[mentalfloss]

Mario Party games have always sold relatively well in the past, so I don't see Mario Party 8 inciting some new trend in game development. I dislike the Mario Party series in general, and I agree that the best "simple" games are deceptively simple, like Tetris. But I see no harm -- and in fact a great deal of good -- in expanding the audience. If Nintendo's own "casual" and "hardcore" projects (e.g., Wii Fit versus Super Mario Galaxy) can coexist side-by-side, I see no reason why any and all "casual" and "hardcore" games can't coexist side-by-side.

But the kids want their Sparta!

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

I never have felt mainstream is bad for gaming. Sure you get more crap games overall but really its not like gaming didn't have crap licensed games, and stupid stuff that sold well all the way back in the Atari days. And really for this industry compared to movies, TV, music, etc. its done a surprisingly amazing job of having its top sellers being quality games. Sure you have your exceptions like the Matrix game and whatnot. But for the most part the really good games(FF, Halo, Mario, Smash bros, GT, GTA, etc) sell well to the hardcore & mainstream gamers alike

If these games attract new gamers, then overall i don't see this as a bad thing. I'm a fan of another hobby (comics) that is just consuming on itself as it becomes more and more niche, and as the prices rise and rise. I fear the outlook of the medium.

Plus hell, i just like the fact gaming has evolved to something that isn't socially mocked or looked down upon.

The one area of concern i do have is if the hardcore games, the less casual friendly games start to get sacrificed to make more "party games", "non games", etc. And so "far" this isn't happening. I also, for my own gaming tastes hope that with the success of the Wii i don't see a lot of the established 3rd party gaming franchises pulling a "Dragon Quest 9" type of deal and go from the PS3/360 games to the Wii. This is more not because of the controller, but the hardware gap between the systems. Its for selfish reasons of course, but who cares. I own all 3 consoles, a great HDTV, and I don't want to see sequels take the gameplay & push the graphics, audio up a level, and have better online experiences

BUT i also don't want the Wii to be a place for 3rd party developers to use it as a non-game/shovelware/mini game collection dump off place. Kind of like what i was seeing with all the GC new Wii game announcements. So in a way i'm sort of contradicting myself. But for my ideal situation what i'd really like to see 3rd party developers do is to keep making the big game sequels, and new ips for the 360/PS3, but also create new IP games just for the Wii. Or games within a franchise/universe that is built from the ground up only for the system.

For example i really like the approach Capcom has been doing. Zak & Wiki looks awesome, you have the Resident Evil game that is cool but isn't replacing the RE5 game for 360/PS3. The same is true with Square so far. I like having both the jaw dropping FFXIII game, but also the one for the Wii also looks great. So essentially balance and diversity across the systems is my desire

Hm..this has gone a little long and rambled such. But its something i've been thinking for a while as i've been watching the surprise shift in the industry over the last year.


Edit: Also another good sign overall is that i think the $400 & $500 systems aren't selling all that great, and that Nintendo was there to help support the mainstream. This is good as i think both MS & Sony started to lose focus and get nuts with the pricing. I don't think you will see either go over the $300 mark with the next round of consoles. Which i think is good because the last thing i want to see with the industry is price itself out of being able to make a lot of diverse, and cool games. And also i really didn't want to see it become like the high priced PC video game card market. I mean i still bought all consoles but i'm a diehard nut, and its not like i want to see these prices keep going up in the generations to follow

 

[mclem]

If you can't stand discussing topics like this, which believe it or not are important topics at this time of our hobbies history, then go to fucking Nintendo circle jerk town.

I think the problem is that it only seems important if you lend credence to his belief. Sure, if this all *does* bring the noble pillars upon which our industry lies crashing down, I'll admit that I'm incorrect, but I've seen absolutely no evidence for that.

What I'm seeing, though, is what I saw in 1996, and in that didn't really do all that much damage. Sure, I railed against the usurpers in our midst, but that was because I was too foolish to accept them. If you like, in a very literal sense, I was not a Mature Gamer.

If you don't lend credence to his belief, then it looks like trolling. And based on my experience in the past, when I *was* the person he seems to be now, I do not see any reason to lend credence to his belief. Having said that, since I have that experience, I don't see it as trolling, just naïveté, the same naïveté I had back then.

 

[Tobor]

If you guys want gaming to slowly slide into a niche elitist medium like comic books, then more power to you. Sony and MS made calculated moves to kick the mainstream to the curb, and Nintendo embraced them. Blaming them and being pissed off about losing all your hardcore games(which won't happen anyway), doesn't change the fact that Nintendo was right.

As Jeff Green said on 1upyours, we all owe Nintendo a debt of gratitude.

 

[mclem]

Sony and MS made calculated moves to kick the mainstream to the curb, and Nintendo embraced them.

To be fair, I don't think they did. I think they were banking on focussing on the elitists first, those who must have fancy graphics, and big-budget epics, and pick up the mainstream later, when they've dropped to a suitable price point.

However, I'm not sure that was a wise decision, completely independently of Nintendo - I doubt the PS3's install base can cover the cost of a huge-budget epic; Microsoft have more potential in that respect, but it's still somewhat risky and the games in question do need to have enormous sales to reap the benefit.

It's a possibility that if Nintendo were not in the fray this time around, we could be looking at an industry crash; financial risks became enormous.

 

[Tobor]

To be fair, I don't think they did. I think they were banking on focussing on the elitists first, those who must have fancy graphics, and big-budget epics, and pick up the mainstream later, when they've dropped to a suitable price point.

However, I'm not sure that was a wise decision, completely independently of Nintendo - I doubt the PS3's install base can cover the cost of a huge-budget epic; Microsoft have more potential in that respect, but it's still somewhat risky and the games in question do need to have enormous sales to reap the benefit.

It's a possibility that if Nintendo were not in the fray this time around, we could be looking at an industry crash; financial risks became enormous.

Good points. I would add that Sony priced themselves out of the elitists market as well. How many more GAFers would have purchased a reasonably priced PS3? I would have.

 

[maxmars]

To be fair, I don't think they did. I think they were banking on focussing on the elitists first, those who must have fancy graphics, and big-budget epics, and pick up the mainstream later, when they've dropped to a suitable price point.

I think this is the correct answer.. After the past generation Nintendo saw that they couldn't compete with the same strategy, so they skipped directly to the part where the casuals jump in, throwing in a novelty controller and choosing a non-gaming name to make sure there were no barriers for non-gamers (blue ocean and all the rest).

I also think they couldn't really pull this off if Sony and MS went with cheaper consoles.. At least Sony at this point could play the novelty card with the ps3 eye-toy, which they actually can't with such an expensive console.

Microsoft is indeed trying to accelerate the process with their new core system (see the five xbla games included), but honestly the console is not that appealing. It still costs as much as a PC to play the same casual friendly games (I mean, xbla games) but you can't use it to browse the internet at the very least. If they included internet explorer and pocket office with the new core, it would be ace for the likes of my parents.

 

[BishopLamont]

You know what, fuck this way of thinking. Stop acting like fucking victims when if you actually paid attention instead of posting bullshit conspiracy theories you'd see there's no anti-Nintendo conspiracy.

If you can't stand discussing topics like this, which believe it or not are important topics at this time of our hobbies history, then go to fucking Nintendo circle jerk town.

I am going to try and not make this an anti Wii topic.

The conversation is about, the idea, that inviting everyone else into our hobby does not necessarily benefit us. "Wow, now my grandmother no longer makes fun of me for playing Doom, because she is rocken the Wiimote."

It does happen why are you avoiding answering it? What's so different with the Wii now that isn't different from past generations? Is it because it's winning that you guys are so worried?

 

[XSX]

It does happen why are you avoiding answering it? What's so different with the Wii now that isn't different from past generations? Is it because it's winning that you guys are so worried?

Wow. GTFO.

 

[BishopLamont]

Wow. GTFO.

No? I asked a legitimate question and all I got is a bunch of cry babies.

 

[XSX]

No? I asked a legitimate question and all I got is a bunch of cry babies.

Who's crying?

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

No? I asked a legitimate question and all I got is a bunch of cry babies.

This was a worthless thread to begin with and didn't lend itself to rational or reasonable discussion. In other words, it was bait.

Also, Sp0rsk pretty much had a retarded post that implied that if you thought this thread was meant to be incisive and trolling that you must be a circle-jerking Nthing.

There are reasonable points to be made about the state of the industry and the Wii's contribution to it - the OP unfortunately didn't present them in a reasonable way.

I don't think there's a specific bias one way or another (there are far too many people and moderators to lean in any specific direction), but this thread and many of the replies in it are shit.

Etiolate said it best.

 

[usernamechange]

It does happen why are you avoiding answering it? What's so different with the Wii now that isn't different from past generations? Is it because it's winning that you guys are so worried?

Video games: serious business.

I don't think anyone is worried other than mindless fanboys who live and die by their console of choice.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

All of you who are excited about the Wii success... sell your 360/PS3 and only use/buy a Wii.

Hope you are satisfied.

But I like both of them.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

But I like both of them.

Heh, some people seem to believe liking the Wii is mutually exclusive from liking anything else.