Sloane_Ranger
Member
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Major Nelson: Both PS4/Xbox One will "sell a ton", online hate "needs to go away"
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
So do I ... and I am someone who plans/recommends/buys media (including large NFL packages)
WrenchNinja
Member
This is a non-argument. In what way would it be feasible for Sony to implement a scheme like this when their ambitions lie globally? You cannot just claim they were going to do it without any evidence.
Portugeezer
Member
I think you remember things differently. What happened was there were leaks LONG before MS announced their DRM crappy plans. These rumors started to sound more and more legitimit with more and more people confirming it and everytime MS gets asked they would say no comment. Even during the days of the rumors, gamers made it very obvious that they were upset with this as a possibility and if this is true they would not be happy. MS ignored these comments.
Instead MS announced very proudly all of the horrible rumors that people feared true and tried to explain to us that it was a good thing and gamers would want this. They still got hate. Then the media and MS PR tried to tell gamers to wait and see because they might like it. Gamers let them know that they still didn't want it. Then finally when preorder numbers started getting reported that more people were interested in the PS4 then the XB1 MS did an about face, only after telling gamers that we didn't understand their message (even though they gave us limited details, Share plan anyone?) and that we unfortunatly weren't ready for the "future" of gaming.
You might have wanted it to launch like that but even if it was "mildly" successful and didn't completly fail, it might be enough to justify crappy DRM policies. I don't wanna risk that.
How in the world did you get that out of my post? Obviously I am discussing the issue on a person by person level - not expecting some sort of global consensus. Larry's post seems to be implying consumers should all just rejoice that the "industry" as a whole is doing well. This is absurd. When companies do things consumers disagree with they need to be called out on them - repeatedly. It's not about hate but rather informing other customers.
For instance, Microsoft tried to make the claim this generation that their dedicated servers make the XBone 400% more powerful. Here's one source: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/XFON-RAZR-Snapdragon-CDMA-XT1060,22669.html You can find others - they decided to start blitzing out this line for a while in a variety of locales. Or Major Nelson trying to claim the XBone was the fastest selling launch console knowing full well that statement is 100% misleading. How about Larry stating that it was effectively impossible to simply turn off the DRM on the XBone and effectively going ad-hominem on a reporter who dared question him on that. I think these sort of marketing tactics are unethical at best and I have, and will continue, go out of my way to bring them to light repeatedly. The last thing I'm going to go do is "Woohoo you sold a few million consoles while completely misleading huge chunks of the market. Great job!"
Now if you disagree with what I'm saying - perhaps you do think that Microsoft's dedicated servers make the XBone 400% as powerful - then absolutely disagree. We can argue, people can come to a consensus, progress made, information is shared, everybody wins, honey.
No, they couldn't. They would have ended the Xbox brand and done even more damage to the overall Microsoft brand. Nothing they did was out of concern for the customer, let's not start pretending it was.
Absolutely. And that goes for all of the big three. It's not all roses and rainbows for any of them.
Dragonborn
Member
I've zero issues with the X1 itself. We know the facts at this point, it's a more expensive, underpowered console; however, unlike the 360, it won't hold back gaming.
I'm still upset at what MS tried to pull, and I'm not going to be trusting them anytime soon, but I don't hate the X1 itself. Just don't try to feed me BS about both being "equal" or whatnot because that's just ridiculous.
I know people like to revise and forget history, but it took Sony years to turn things around with the Ps3. It had so much hate going for it at the start, but they were able to do so. It's the same with MS, this "hate" will continue for a few more years and then die out so long as MS actually has enough worthwhile exclusives (and no, that doesn't mean going out and paying for games to stay off PS4 because that'll just add to the "hate").
As for both selling great, I think MS is going to have serious issues once the PS4 stock is stable. WW, it's no contest, it won't even stand a chance. In NA, they've already ruined their massive 360 advantage. That means, assuming both consoles sell at least as well as before, they'll probably lag by at least 15 million units. At least.
I'm still upset at what MS tried to pull, and I'm not going to be trusting them anytime soon, but I don't hate the X1 itself. Just don't try to feed me BS about both being "equal" or whatnot because that's just ridiculous.
I know people like to revise and forget history, but it took Sony years to turn things around with the Ps3. It had so much hate going for it at the start, but they were able to do so. It's the same with MS, this "hate" will continue for a few more years and then die out so long as MS actually has enough worthwhile exclusives (and no, that doesn't mean going out and paying for games to stay off PS4 because that'll just add to the "hate").
As for both selling great, I think MS is going to have serious issues once the PS4 stock is stable. WW, it's no contest, it won't even stand a chance. In NA, they've already ruined their massive 360 advantage. That means, assuming both consoles sell at least as well as before, they'll probably lag by at least 15 million units. At least.
Sony announced their price at E3. This was decided months in advance, if not years. The camera was shelved in favor of the extra 4G GDDR5 RAM. It was a god decision. Camera isn't needed.
by 2020, are you saying google fiber or the equivalent won't be worldwide? Speeds are only gonna get ridiculously faster and latency is only going to get better.
Of course sales is the main concern and they listened because they wanted those sales. I merely said that they could have arrogantly marched forward anyway, but they made the right choice. I'm not defending them, either. I am just glad it turned out better than it originally was looking because I wanted another great system to enjoy this generation. That's it.
Carnby
Member
All Microsoft had to do was follow up their work with the 360. It should have been a no-brainer. Instead, they tried to bend us over, then insult us when we weren't buying into their shitty version of the future.
This interview should have made it crystal clear what Microsoft thinks of you, the consumer.
Go ahead MN, keep playing the victim.
Never forget.
yankeehater
Member
What subpar experience?
NintendoRev
Member
I pretty much agree. I own both consoles, Love them both and have no real preference to either, just like the 360//PS3. The rabid fanboyism does need to go away, as both consoles are selling well.
It was a great decision for them to sell units. I never wanted the camera but I imagine they had multiple pricing bundling scenarios in order to respond to whatever MS did
My point was all DS4's have the annoying almost pointless LED active without any option to turn them off/dim in the OS which would make more sense if the Camera was on every PS4.
Sony definitely made all the right moves and are reaping the rewards from that right now
The servers require resources also, whats the benifit of doing EVERYTHING on their servers and sending that to your tv/reciever box, it still costs money to manufacture, you get added latency.
With the internet infrastructure and Server costs etc, I cant see 'cloud gaming' happening anytime soon, 2020 is WAY to soon. Cloud MAY improve games if they can work out the latency quirks/improve broadband with certain ideas but I personally cant see it replacing consoles.
shinobi602
Member
I love Microsoft's first party IPs, so it is a worthy investment. Developers will come to better terms with the hardware as the years go on. Sure, a lot of multiplats out the gate perform far better on the PS4, and luckily I have one, so if that's the case, I'll just get them on the PS4.
We're already seeing multiplatform games performing the same though with games like NFS: Rivals, and now the upcoming Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition. Games like Ryse look absolutely incredible on it. Even if it's a lesser PS4, it's a valuable investment to me for the IPs in Microsoft's pockets. And honestly, I don't care if some games are 720p. I still don't have an Xbox One yet as I'm waiting for Halo 5 to jump on one, but games like Killer Instinct and Dead Rising 3 look like a ton of fun even at their lesser resolutions. Obviously I'd definitely prefer if they looked better, but I'm all about fun first.
Deus Ex Machina
Member
Yep, we're not all sheep
Inferior multiplats, cluttered UI that requires voice navigation to be manageable, longer installs, inferior party system, etc.
Holy pile on....
Anyways, he's right. Then again, neither Sony nor Microsoft are shining beacons of Corporate justice.
One wants to sell you consoles to sell you TVs and Betamaxes and the other to sell you tablets and operating systems.
Boooo - bring back Sega v. Nintendo... charming days.
Anyways, he's right. Then again, neither Sony nor Microsoft are shining beacons of Corporate justice.
One wants to sell you consoles to sell you TVs and Betamaxes and the other to sell you tablets and operating systems.
Boooo - bring back Sega v. Nintendo... charming days.
Portugeezer
Member
2020 is just around the corner, high speed internet won't be available worldwide by then.
I could stream games right now if there was an option to. I'm simply saying: fuck that shit. Fuck compression artefacts. Fuck lag (which could never be removed). Fuck renting games.
I'd like non-cloud streamed gaming. I'll go to whatever could offer me that.
And that is the point. The pre-launch drama is over, the supposed 'shitstorm' turned out to be nothing more than a wet fart and the new generation is off to a great start. I am not going to plant a flag and hold some grudge for something that is no longer relevant. I want the industry to flourish with healthy competition and for both systems to provide us with some amazing experiences. Time to move on.
Maybe, sometimes I wonder if they could have marched forward, and if preorders were the final barrier that made them turn back. It could have been more than that.
It's possible that their legal department looked into it and finally decided that the infrastructure they had planned (you don't own and can't resell what you buy) had a high probability of legal challenge both in the US and abroad.
Either way they spun their decision as a move for consumer interest when it wasn't.
I'm not even sure what this means.
We did treat it as a "moral crusade", and we won. They changed their policies. People may not care about GDDR5 (duh), but PS4 is performing better and has much better demand everywhere. So your point isn't even expressed correctly in that regard either, and there's no way to prove how many of those owners went PS4 because of that bad taste. We have no way to quantify how many consumers Microsoft lost until the end of the gen.
The Blackrose
Member
Major Nelson's statement reeks of smarm.
Asking for less hatred is a nice thing to think about, but good luck asking people to forget what put Microsoft in the doghouse in the first place.
Asking for less hatred is a nice thing to think about, but good luck asking people to forget what put Microsoft in the doghouse in the first place.
viveks86
Gold Member
Aren't you guys reading too much into it? May be he realized his attempts to engage with the community backfired and decided to stay away. May be he took all the insults personally. In my opinion, it was because of the topics he chose to comment on. He had it coming. But may be he doesn't see it that way.
There is, of course, the possibility that he was simply using Gaf as a PR channel, but when I'm presented with two options, one that paints someone with noble intentions and the other that makes them look opportunistic and disingenuous, I'd prefer option 1.
I own a PS4 and that's likely to be my only system, but I still agree. I used to be a console warrior. I look back and laugh. I don't care enough about games anymore. Now I can appreciate it as a fun hobby, and multiple companies succeeding at once is a good thing for the stability and longevity of the industry. Both companies will do just fine. Enjoy the games. PEACE.
3rdamention
Member
This is kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
Major Nelson releases this statement a day after Aaron Greenberg tweets about how the Xbox One versions of COD and B4 sold more on Xbox One than the PS4, fueling fanboy console wars or "online hate" as they like to call it. Whether or not Greenburg should be revealing numbers in relation to his competitors considering he has access to NPD numbers is a discussion for another day.
Also, what about those 3 part blog posts that Major posted during the launch of the PS3 and 360 that detailed all the ways the 360 was more powerful than the PS3, some of it absolute FUD. Remember all those graphs he shared?
Or Albert Penello's mathemagics that made zero sense, but fueled more of these discussions while trying to prove the Xbox One was equally as powerful as the PS4.
If Major wants the online hate and console wards to stop, then he and his buddies need to stop sharing information, some of it false, to help fuel the hate or draw lines in the sand. He is just as much a part of it as anyone else.
Major Nelson releases this statement a day after Aaron Greenberg tweets about how the Xbox One versions of COD and B4 sold more on Xbox One than the PS4, fueling fanboy console wars or "online hate" as they like to call it. Whether or not Greenburg should be revealing numbers in relation to his competitors considering he has access to NPD numbers is a discussion for another day.
Also, what about those 3 part blog posts that Major posted during the launch of the PS3 and 360 that detailed all the ways the 360 was more powerful than the PS3, some of it absolute FUD. Remember all those graphs he shared?
Or Albert Penello's mathemagics that made zero sense, but fueled more of these discussions while trying to prove the Xbox One was equally as powerful as the PS4.
If Major wants the online hate and console wards to stop, then he and his buddies need to stop sharing information, some of it false, to help fuel the hate or draw lines in the sand. He is just as much a part of it as anyone else.
PR gunna PR, It's easy for Nelson to say this in a PR interview, but it seems from yesterdays Greenberg tweets they want the onine vs. mode but only if they're winning.
polyh3dron
Banned
This.
yankeehater
Member
Oh I see.
Aren't you guys reading too much into it? May be he realized his attempts to engage with the community backfired and decided to stay away. May be he took all the insults personally. In my opinion, it was because of the topics he chose to comment on. He had it coming. But may be he doesn't see it that way.
There is, of course, the possibility that he was simply using Gaf as a PR channel, but when I'm presented with two options, one that paints someone with noble intentions and the other that makes them look opportunistic and disingenuous, I'd prefer option 1.
I gave Penello the benefit of the doubt many, many times. You can look up my posts telling others that as long as Penello is sharing his points respectfully, they should attack the points, not Penello.
I always knew that it was part of his job to paint XBO in a positive light. I don't begrudge him that. But to come here, spread deliberate misinformation, then leave the second the system launches... I really don't have any excuses left for Penello.
SHADES
Member
Whilst I agree with the Major's sentiment it does kinda look like he's picking his battles a little, remember back when the PS3 launched & we had those 4 part articles on why the 360 was better than the PS3, it's that type of marketing that fuels the online hate he speaks of.
Now that the PS4 seems to be doing better in sales & is viewed as the stronger hardware it's all peace & love? Personally I'm not buying it I just think it fits in with the whole play down the differences line based on past marketing campaigns, I hope I'm wrong though.
Now that the PS4 seems to be doing better in sales & is viewed as the stronger hardware it's all peace & love? Personally I'm not buying it I just think it fits in with the whole play down the differences line based on past marketing campaigns, I hope I'm wrong though.
He's right. Both will sell a ton.
On the other hand we must not forget the anti consumer practices that MS wanted to implement with the xbone. Also, shoving an unwanted accessory to many down their throats with the Kinect.
MS's reversals showed how out of touch with gamers they really were.
So yes the hate and barking back and forth needs to go away. Yes we all have a preferred console. No matter of bickering is going to change anyone's mind.
On the other hand we must not forget the anti consumer practices that MS wanted to implement with the xbone. Also, shoving an unwanted accessory to many down their throats with the Kinect.
MS's reversals showed how out of touch with gamers they really were.
So yes the hate and barking back and forth needs to go away. Yes we all have a preferred console. No matter of bickering is going to change anyone's mind.
shadowsdarknes
Member
No offense, he's really just saying this because the Xbox One gets far more "hate" than the PS4.
The PS4 has thrived off Microsoft's fuck ups. Of course, this is his job and I suppose in this instance, he's doing it well.
And yes, he's right.
The PS4 has thrived off Microsoft's fuck ups. Of course, this is his job and I suppose in this instance, he's doing it well.
And yes, he's right.
Metalingus5150
Member
The criticisms to the Xbone are justified.
yitdadee08
Neo Member
I'm glad both Sony and Microsoft are doing well. I don't want anyone to fail while they're here, but if I had to choose someone to leave the industry it would have to be Microsoft.
Although I agree with those who say that having options is good, how good is it when essentially both consoles do the same thing? A pretty good majority of the games released are multiplatform. Given this, if you have one console, why would you spend an extra $400 or $500 just for, at the most, around 30% of the games that are exclusive?
For example, I only owned a PS3 last generation. I considered buying an Xbox 360 several times, but when I thought about the games that I really wanted, they were already coming out for the PS3 also. When I considered the must-play Xbox exclusives, there were Gears of War and Halo. Mass Effect was exclusive but it became multiplatform.
According to this list (although I'm sure I'm missing some), would it really be justifiable to spend an extra $300-350 for an Xbox 360 for 7-12 games over an eight-year lifespan? The same could be said vice-versa.
This is different for Nintendo. Nintendo is, for the most part, strictly exclusive titles. Owning a Wii U in addition to an Xbox One or PS4 is acceptable.
We don't have to buy both consoles, but if you want to play most of the games, you have to get them. I feel like it would be better for consumers and our wallets, if there were at the most two (Nintendo has to stay) versus three.
Although I agree with those who say that having options is good, how good is it when essentially both consoles do the same thing? A pretty good majority of the games released are multiplatform. Given this, if you have one console, why would you spend an extra $400 or $500 just for, at the most, around 30% of the games that are exclusive?
For example, I only owned a PS3 last generation. I considered buying an Xbox 360 several times, but when I thought about the games that I really wanted, they were already coming out for the PS3 also. When I considered the must-play Xbox exclusives, there were Gears of War and Halo. Mass Effect was exclusive but it became multiplatform.
According to this list (although I'm sure I'm missing some), would it really be justifiable to spend an extra $300-350 for an Xbox 360 for 7-12 games over an eight-year lifespan? The same could be said vice-versa.
This is different for Nintendo. Nintendo is, for the most part, strictly exclusive titles. Owning a Wii U in addition to an Xbox One or PS4 is acceptable.
We don't have to buy both consoles, but if you want to play most of the games, you have to get them. I feel like it would be better for consumers and our wallets, if there were at the most two (Nintendo has to stay) versus three.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I rarely agree with Amir0x's long-winded retorts, but I'm in complete agreement with this succinct response. Crazy...
jeffrockz312
Member
I feel that this would of had more of an impact if a Sony rep were the one who said this.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
That might be the first time I agree with him. Finally he said something that is not simple PR bullshit. Props.