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[westical]

well said fella.

You're wrong.

 

[westical]

If we are following this path a bit more we could also say that Halo 2's marketing success does not automatically mean anything about Halo 3 and we could extend this to the quality of each future release from any developer on any platform.

Halo 2 was successful, both critically and commercially.

Killzone was only successful commercially.

There's the difference.

 

[travisbickle]

Someone has to remember Killzone for it's great gameplay ideas instead of just a name.

Talk to my brother in law he loves it. I liked it a lot but there's no point even talking about it when you're on a site like this.

 

[Elios83]

Phil Harrison seems really excited about Killzone,back in December he said that a few elements were already better than the E305 trailer and they would show the game when it can meet the high expectations. He has never tried to build false hype as far as I remember so having a demo in a month time would be incredibly cool. This coupled with the R&C news from EGM would also lead to believe that Sony could lift embargoes on many games around GDC.

 

[westical]

Talk to my brother in law he loves it. I liked it a lot but there's no point even talking about it when you're on a site like this.

A gaming site?

 

[Steroyd]

So with Killzone being average according to the press and it selling 2 million copies what have we learned?

1. Get a FPS.
2. Market it as the second coming of Christ
3. -----
4. Profit

Hell if KZ PS3 is more critically acclaimed by the media and hyped like heck than KZ1 then it'll probably sell at least double what the original sold.

 

[westical]

Hell if KZ PS3 is more critically acclaimed by the media and hyped like heck than KZ1 then it'll probably sell at least double what the original sold.

It could depend on the quality of the demo. Lost Planet didn't exactly receive overally glowing reviews, but thanks to some pretty great demos sales have apparently been very good.

 

[Wollan]

Hell if KZ PS3 is more critically acclaimed by the media and hyped like heck than KZ1 then it'll probably sell at least double what the original sold.

If Lukems is right, at least there won't be any false hype before hand as people get to experience the game(demo) themselves. I can't believe we will potentially see a valid Killzone vs Halo debate already this spring. :lol

 

[Yoboman]

So with Killzone being average according to the press and it selling 2 million copies what have we learned?

1. Get a FPS.
2. Market it as the second coming of Christ
3. -----
4. Profit

Hell if KZ PS3 is more critically acclaimed by the media and hyped like heck than KZ1 then it'll probably sell at least double what the original sold.

There's no guarantee of that. I'm sure there were a bunch of people who bought and are unwilling to ever look at another Killzone game

 

[Panajev2001a]

Halo 2 was successful, both critically and commercially.

Killzone was only successful commercially.

There's the difference.

If we wanted to be anally adherent to the line of thought presented earlier, it would make no difference .

Still, Killzone had some merits which critics recognized.

7.5/10 by IGN

6.9/10 by Gamespot

8.0/10 by 1up

C by Gaming-Age

That is not what I'd call a disaster, especially reading the reviews.

 

[Wollan]

It received good reviews here in Norway. :lol

 

[Yoboman]

Phil Harrison seems really excited about Killzone,back in December he said that a few elements were already better than the E305 trailer and they would show the game when it can meet the high expectations. He has never tried to build false hype as far as I remember so having a demo in a month time would be incredibly cool. This coupled with the R&C news from EGM would also lead to believe that Sony could lift embargoes on many games around GDC.

There's also the MGS4 blow-out in Edge. Going to be an awesome month

 

[Imperial Hot]

Assuming this news is true, Sony releasing a Killzone 2 demo in March would be the first shot across Microsoft's bow in the Next-Gen War. If Sony is readying a demo for March and has had multiplayer playable for a year, I think it is safe to say that Sony plans for Killzone 2 to go head-to-head with Halo 3.

If Sony doesn't have Killzone 2(or something to that effect)ready to combat Halo 3, they will lose this Christmas '07 in Europe and North America.

 

[Yoboman]

Assuming this news is true, Sony releasing a Killzone 2 demo in March would be the first shot across Microsoft's bow in the Next-Gen War. If Sony is readying a demo for March and has had multiplayer playable for a year, I think it is safe to say that Sony plans for Killzone 2 to go head-to-head with Halo 3.

If Sony doesn't have Killzone 2(or something to that effect)ready to combat Halo 3, they will lose this Christmas '07 in Europe and North America.

Even if it's not there, Sony should have Uncharted there as the technological powerhouse/killer-app from Sony's software line. If what people in the know have been hinting about how good the game is turns out true, I think it'll be the game Sony needs. Then there is that little game called MGS4.

 

[Wollan]

If Sony doesn't have Killzone 2(or something to that effect)ready to combat Halo 3, they will lose this Christmas '07 in Europe and North America.

Nothing can match Halo 3 hype this year. Killzone could be a giant thorn but Halo 3 will still happen. In any case, Sony have some insane games this autumn like Uncharted and R&C4 among others. Hopefully Killzone and MGS4 will be there as well.

 

[Imperial Hot]

Nothing can match Halo 3 hype this year. Killzone could be a giant thorn but Halo 3 will still happen. In any case, Sony have some insane games this autumn like Uncharted and R&C4 among others. Hopefully Killzone and MGS4 will be there as well.

Of course nothing is going to overcome Halo 3's hype, but they could use Killzone to negate a lot of the hype. All I am saying is that Sony will get slaughtered if they do not have Killzone 2 ready for Christmas '07, and Sony can not afford to lose another Christmas season. At that point in to the console cycle we are talking about 17 million Xbox 360s units and probably about 7 million PS3s going into Christmas '07. If Sony doesn't come out ahead, I just can't imagine them pulling ahead of Microsoft at all.

By the way, I am not a fanboy of any system. I own all three next-gen consoles and I want each one to be successful. The more successful the consoles are, the better the software will be, which means I get better games.

 

[Dunpeal]

Its ****ing amazing. Killzone downright sucked, i dont know anyone that played the game and is looking forward to the sequel.

 

[Luckyman]

Too many potential Q3/Q4 games for Sony. Half of them have to slip to 08..

 

[Wollan]

At that point in to the console cycle we are talking about 17 million Xbox 360s units and probably about 7 million PS3s going into Christmas '07.

I highly question those numbers. With Sony really eager to have shipped 6m by the end of March and MS downgrading their estimates to 12m shipped by the end of June, I firmly believe Sony have a good chance of surpassing worldwide X360 numbers this year (sold through).

Sorry, got caught up.

Killzone PS3 will probably mean more than Uncharted and MGS4 on their own (as individual titles) but the fact is that there's a bunch of really high class games coming to the PS3 this fall no matter if KZ will make it or not so there will be no doom to Sony.

 

[swander]

If we wanted to be anally adherent to the line of thought presented earlier, it would make no difference .

Still, Killzone had some merits which critics recognized.

7.5/10 by IGN

6.9/10 by Gamespot

8.0/10 by 1up

C by Gaming-Age

That is not what I'd call a disaster, especially reading the reviews.

What IS a disaster to you? C-?

 

[antiloop]

Its ****ing amazing. Killzone downright sucked, i dont know anyone that played the game and is looking forward to the sequel.

It's the best selling game ever in Poland!

All categories, all platforms.

 

[Imperial Hot]

I highly question those numbers. With Sony really eager to have shipped 6m by the end of March and MS downgrading their estimates to 12m shipped by the end of June, I firmly believe Sony have a good chance of surpassing worldwide X360 numbers this year (sold through).

Sorry, got caught up.

Killzone PS3 will probably mean more than Uncharted and MGS4 on their own (as individual titles) but the fact is that there's a bunch of really high class games coming to the PS3 this fall no matter if KZ will make it or not so there will be no doom to Sony.

Those were estimates, based off of 360 sales for last year, and I took a little off to account for the price. I don't see the PS3 selling a lot of units in the holiday months,
because of the price. If Sony was to drop the price, then things would be different.

I am also starting to believe that people are thinking that I am discounting how great Uncharted and MGS4 will be, but I am not. I know that there will be some high class games, but they will not be shooters. And lets face it, Americans are more apt to buying a a shooter, than any other genre out there(besides sports). I am just looking at what will sell, not what will be great. Those are, sadly, two different things.

 

[Wollan]

Well, if MGS4 manage to rake in ~5m, Uncharted ~4m and R&C ~3m that's still pretty nice even if it ain't Halo 3 numbers (~8m).

 

[Imperial Hot]

Well, if MGS4 manage to rake in ~5m, Uncharted ~4m and R&C ~3m that's still pretty nice even if it ain't Halo 3 numbers (~8m).

When you put it like that, Sony might not do to bad this holiday season. If they could manage to have that kind of line-up for Christmas, well, Microsoft better look out.

Touche.

 

[Wollan]

Then you add the potentials with WipEout, Killzone and I don't know what. PS3 software is going to be awesome this year. 2001-2004-2007.

 

[Dunpeal]

Well, if MGS4 manage to rake in ~5m, Uncharted ~4m and R&C ~3m that's still pretty nice even if it ain't Halo 3 numbers (~8m).

Lol keep dreaming. We arent talking about a system that has 80 million units sold outthere anymore. Wake up and smell the coffee Wollan.

Not to mention that the chance of MGs4 coming out this holiday...well not good. And the way you put it its like PS3 has a stack of million sellers for the holiday and the Xbox aint got shit. :lol

Drop the price, theres your holiday winner.

 

[Haunted]

My opinion: Killzone is the most popular (non-multiplatform) FPS on PS2, you know FPS the genre that xbox owners like, why not spend money on a potential quality FPS for PS3.

I think Sony should concentrate on making Tmesplitters a PS3 only project.

I thought the Socom series was the most popular shooter on PS2? or Black?


Anyway, I think Sony has made things really tough for Guerilla by publishing that awesome CG trailer (which I just watched again - it's still really good but not the 'OMG amazing!!' that it was in 05 (obviously)). I understand they wanted something to make a huge splash at E3 05 to steal MS's thunder, but all in all, they shot themselves in the foot. The games' graphics will be marked as a down-grade regardless of how close they are to the CG trailers.

100% agree with Amir0x in that respect, it already happened to Motorstorm, and it will probably happen to Killzone 2.

 

[Yoboman]

I thought the Socom series was the most popular shooter on PS2? or Black?


Anyway, I think Sony has made things really tough for Guerilla by publishing that awesome CG trailer (which I just watched again - it's still really good but not the 'OMG amazing!!' that it was in 05 (obviously)). I understand they wanted something to make a huge splash at E3 05 to steal MS's thunder, but all in all, they shot themselves in the foot. The games' graphics will be marked as a down-grade regardless of how close they are to the CG trailers.

100% agree with Amir0x in that respect, it already happened to Motorstorm, and it will probably happen to Killzone 2.

You just reminded me. I wouldn't be surprised if Zipper's new game is ready for unveiling soon. Maybe even a release this year

 

[Imperial Hot]

Lol keep dreaming. We arent talking about a system that has 80 million units sold outthere anymore. Wake up and smell the coffee Wollan.

I don't see what is wrong with Wollan's logic. He listed about five AAA titles that have a history of moving units. Yes, maybe those numbers he guesses are a little extrapolated, but you get his point. Those heavy-hitting titles will be able to definitly be able to, when combined, to outsell and push more units than Halo.

Wollan just completly turned my idea of how this Christmas might pain out, and it looks like us PS3 owners are going to have a good time this Holiday.

 

[Elios83]

100% agree with Amir0x in that respect, it already happened to Motorstorm, and it will probably happen to Killzone 2.

Motostorm is one of the most anticipated games on PS3 and one of the most praised graphically. Guerrilla would love to have the same reception Motorstorm has enjoyed so far.

 

[Wollan]

Drop the price, theres your holiday winner.

All signs point to yes. You've probably seen the news as the rest of us. PS3 development cheapens, talk of price cut strategy..etc. Couple that with the most awesome game lineup this winter and the console readily available in all regions and I think that will contribute to some really great sales in the xmas period. Regarding your doubts for software sales, just take a look at the sales for 2001.

 

[Haunted]

Motostorm is one of the most anticipated games on PS3 and one of the most praised graphically. Guerrilla would love to have the same reception Motorstorm has enjoyed so far.

I think Motorstorm looks great, but what Amir0x described in his post is true and wouldn't have happened if Sony didn't raise the expectations (too) high with those CG target renders (passed off as semi-realtime) at E3 05.

for clarification:

Motorstorm had this same problem due to its target video, and it looks very nice now. Half the articles on websites, magazines and forums have to suffer some lame comment from some hack writer about it. “Admittedly Motorstorm has shaped up quite nicely visually... but it's still no target video LOL.” And it wasn't even hyped as much as the Killzone video by crazed gamers. Imagine the backlash here. Nah, nothing good can come of this.

*looks below* yeah, that reaction is what I'm talking about. :lol

 

[Imperial Hot]

Motostorm is one of the most anticipated games on PS3 and one of the most praised graphically. Guerrilla would love to have the same reception Motorstorm has enjoyed so far.

Agreed. Motorstorm, although not reaching the graphical fidelity of the target renders, looks pretty damn good, and has stellar gameplay. Motorstorm is shaping up to be the Playstation's first killer-app.

 

[Wollan]

I think Motorstorm looks great, but what Amir0x described in his post is true and wouldn't have happened if Sony didn't raise the expectations (too) high with those CG target renders (passed off as semi-realtime) at E3 05.

I think the graphics of Halo 3 might potentially actually fuel the Killzone hype if it(KZ) looks better. That was such a strength with the original, the great visual design that is. It won't matter if it doesn't look as good as the cg if the graphics are noticeable more impressive than Halo 3.

 

[Dunpeal]

I think the graphics of Halo 3 might potentially actually fuel the Killzone hype if it(KZ) looks better. That was such a strength with the original, the great visual design that is. It won't matter if it doesn't look as good as the cg if the graphics are noticeable more impressive than Halo 3.

If if if if

 

[Imperial Hot]

I think the graphics of Halo 3 might potentially actually fuel the Killzone hype if it(KZ) looks better. That was such a strength with the original, the great visual design that is. It won't matter if it doesn't look as good as the cg if the graphics are noticeable more impressive than Halo 3.

Agreed. If Killzone looks better than Halo 3, people will flock to Killzone. And judging from Bungie's attitude towards graphics lately, there is a pretty good chance that Killzone will look better.

 

[¤Ai®MåSt£®¤]

"This is but a taste of the terror that Killzone 2 will unleash."

"..."

 

[Elios83]

I think Motorstorm looks great, but what Amir0x described in his post is true and wouldn't have happened if Sony didn't raise the expectations (too) high with those CG target renders (passed off as semi-realtime) at E3 05.

for clarification:


*looks below* yeah, that reaction is what I'm talking about. :lol

Fact is what Amirox said didn't happen with Motorstorm. Ok people noticed graphics are not of the same quality of the first trailer (which IMO was more impressive than the Killzone CG) but after that there has been only a lot of praise for the game, from gamers and from the press and everyone is impressed with the graphics nevertheless.

 

[The Innocent X]

Wollan, I hope all your dreams come true, but I have to feel your over-egging the sony pudding here.

 

[Haunted]

I think the graphics of Halo 3 might potentially actually fuel the Killzone hype if it(KZ) looks better. That was such a strength with the original, the great visual design that is. It won't matter if it doesn't look as good as the cg if the graphics are noticeable more impressive than Halo 3.

I don't want to speculate too much here (we don't now how both of these game will look like in finished form), but maybe that's the right way to go marketing-wise for Sony/Guerilla:
Encourage everyone to make the comparisons to Halo 3 and try to make people forget about that CG trailer.

 

[Wollan]

Wollan, I hope all your dreams come true, but I have to feel your over-egging the sony pudding here.

I actually strongly believe what I'm saying personally and I also think my points are coming from a reasonable stand point.

 

[hadareud]

If Killzone looks better than Halo 3, people will flock to Killzone.

Yeah, I don't think so. I also don't think that Halo 1 & 2's strenth was with the graphics. I doubt that people loved it because of that.

Mind you, personally I'm not a Halo fan at all.

 

[The Innocent X]

At least I actually believe what I'm saying personally and I also think I my points are coming from a reasonable stand point.

Fair enough, I wish you well. from my perspective I would guess that KZ2 was held back because resistance was the better game. We shall see if that is the case shortly.

 

[jjasper]

If the game looks as good as the video that will pretty much equal commerical success. I played the first one and it was not spectacularI actually agreed with most of the reviews. The series has a lot of potential if they could just get the gameplay down. Maybe Sony should send some people over from Insomniac to help.

 

[Haunted]

Fact is what Amirox said didn't happen with Motorstorm. Ok people noticed graphics are not of the same quality of the first trailer (which IMO was more impressive than the Killzone CG) but after that there has been only a lot of praise for the game, from gamers and from the press and everyone is impressed with the graphics nevertheless.

That's the only thing I'm talking about though. Like a small dent in the armour or a drop of poison in the well. It's a small thing, not really important - but it's there nonetheless.

 

[Imperial Hot]

Yeah, I don't think so. I also don't think that Halo 1 & 2's strenth was with the graphics. I doubt that people loved it because of that.

Mind you, personally I'm not a Halo fan at all.

The average gamer automatically thinks that a game is superior if the graphics look better. Come on don't act like you have never seen that before. Average Joes will always flock to games because the "graphics are AWESOME". If you put Halo 3, and Killzone 2 side-by-side and Killzone had better graphics, I would bet you that Average Joe will most likely go straight to Killzone, because "the graphics are better, that means the game is better" mentality.

The perfect example is Madden. People buy it ever year for $60 all because the graphical and roster update.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I could not care less if this game does not look like the CG from 2005. I could not care less if this game is timed to compete with the Halo Beta. I could not care less if this game is called a Halo killer. All I care about is whether or not Killzone 2 is fun to play AND it brings something new an fresh to the genre, offline and online. If it does that, I will buy it.

 

[Yoboman]

The average gamer automatically thinks that a game is superior if it looks better. Come on don't act like you have never seen that before. Average Joes will always flock to games because the "graphics are AWESOME". If you put Halo 3, and Killzone 2 side-by-side and Killzone had better graphics, I would bet you that Average Joe will most likely go straight to Killzone, because "the graphics are better, that means the game is better" mentality.

As if. Give the average joe a little bit of credit. Does GTA have great graphics?

 

[Haunted]

The average gamer automatically thinks that a game is superior if it looks better. Come on don't act like you have never seen that before. Average Joes will always flock to games because the "graphics are AWESOME". If you put Halo 3, and Killzone 2 side-by-side and Killzone had better graphics, I would bet you that Average Joe will most likely go straight to Killzone, because "the graphics are better, that means the game is better" mentality.

What kind of average Joe are you talking about here? Just saying because Madden PS2 sold more than Madden 360 (first example that came to mind).

 

[Imperial Hot]

As if. Give the average joe a little bit of credit. Does GTA have great graphics?

Yes, too a lot of Average Joes it did have good graphics at the time. The Average Joe does not get more credit, because he does not deserve more credit. These are the same people that caused Clover Studios to close. The Average Joe is the reason why we are getting more shooters, and shinier graphics. But, that is a whole different topic.

What kind of average Joe are you talking about here? Just saying because Madden PS2 sold more than Madden 360 (first example that came to mind).

I would expect Madden PS2 to sell more, it had more content and was on a platform that dwarved the 360.