That's something we borrowed from the US.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Man charged over April Jones Facebook post
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
- Status
That's something we borrowed from the US.
I live in Vancouver, the States is less than a 2 hour drive away. But yeah, go on ahead and think that I live a sheltered and insular life. See where that gets you.
There are times to defend freedom of speech. The guy's not getting jailed indefinitely, what he said is outright vile... this ain't the time.
Americans are a few court cases away from being in the same boat and should just be thankful that the idea of such a case being so unpopular makes it so that it doesn't happen. The pushback against things like online bullying (the hot internet topic of the moment in North America) is going to come to a rather surprising conclusion. And it can all change without a constitutional amendment.
So let's not pretend that this is somehow a big deal or that America's freedoms somehow protect Americans from the same thing when it's primarily popular consensus and political consequences of working against that consensus that has prevented it.
Jeff Albertson
Member
Just on the off chance I think I may just report Frankie Boyle
Being an unfunny twat is illegal isn't it? If not it should be
I like how you have elected representatives that are religious fundamentalists but we're probably best off sticking to this topic
The difference being that instead of saying "I'm not going to get upset about it," we actually get upset about it. I must say I'm surprised that you dismiss the freedom to post offensive content as "nebulous."
Actually it was a huge gaffe on my part, my bad.
So because I messed up and didn't read the location you just felt you had to take a casual jab at me?
I like how you have elected representatives that are religious fundamentalists but we're probably best off sticking to this topic
Britian has unelected Bishops in the House Of Lords ;(
No worries. When any sensible person sees "Lancashire", they think Delaware. I've got your back.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Hey man, don't carry on about it- he 'fessed up, it's cool. Mistakes were made. Plywood's good people.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Not a land of free speech, apparently.
The problem is that when people start getting jailed for saying that their government sucks ass it's already too late.
Grimm Fandango
Member
How lame. It's not like he made a false claim of her whereabouts or something, just a joke.
Ravensmash
Member
Hey, the opposition do that all the time during Prime Minister's Questions
And I'm kind of mixed on this...I think this prosecution is overstepping the mark a bit, but I don't particularly feel like standing up for the guy as it's clear he was just trying to provoke a reaction and given the recent events surrounding this case, it's a rather disgusting comment which has no merit whatsoever.
He's not making a political point (before we all start rushing to say that the UK is oppressive and ran by a dictatorship or something) just a very very offensive comment.
But yeah...i'm mixed on this (more so than I thought I would be). Offensive comedians say similar things, not usually during such an event but still...arhg
DiscoJer
Member
Tell that to Wesley Snipes.
He paid back the money he owed. He's only in jail because of his motive. Had he just said he "forgot" or blamed Turbotax like an Obama cabinet member he's be free. But since he had a political motive, protesting taxes, he went to jail for 3 years.
I don't think that's clear at all. It looks like a bad taste joke to me. Apparently all he did was post it on his facebook, someone else showed it to the April Jones group (you could accuse that person of trying to provoke a reaction).
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Sometimes it's necessary to say things that people might find offensive to make an important point or bring about a social change. But the public is willing to accept a narrative of jailing people for saying offensive things. So it would be really easy to jail people saying important or necessary things and fit it into that accepted narrative.Hey, the opposition do that all the time during Prime Minister's Questions
And I'm kind of mixed on this...I think this prosecution is overstepping the mark a bit, but I don't particularly feel like standing up for the guy as it's clear he was just trying to provoke a reaction and given the recent events surrounding this case, it's a rather disgusting comment which has no merit whatsoever.
He's not making a political point (before we all start rushing to say that the UK is oppressive and ran by a dictatorship or something) just a very very offensive comment.
But yeah...i'm mixed on this (more so than I thought I would be). Offensive comedians say similar things, not usually during such an event but still...arhg
No, he was jailed for not filing his damn tax returns. Lying would have gotten him perjury charges. He didn't have a get out of jail free card.
Was this really the post that got him imprisoned?
The idea that someone can be imprisoned by the government in a "free society" for saying something like this is scary to say the least. I see the term "incite" a lot in these stories and discussions....."it's not just a joke, it's inciting hatred!" Uh-huh. Slippery, slippery slope. If what someone says is really so egregious, let him be socially ostracized, and let the private owner of whatever forum was used to say it (in this case facebook) remove it and ban him if they see fit. It's saddening to see people support their government removing people from society by imprisonment over distasteful speech.
I'm glad there are few of us that still have sense. It really doesn't matter what he said, as long as its something that was just said, as in words.
It almost hurts my mind to see people supporting it. But I totally get that short poem about neighbors all getting rounded up, and no one saying anything. I think its a fear reaction. You can't admit its disgusting, because that would mean that the country/law is disgusting and absurd. Its a way to mentally keep in control, even though the reality is the opposite. I've just come to the conclusion that stupid people have taken over. Just focusing on saving some money, and living somewhere quiet, away from the stupid people.
GAF
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
Ravensmash
Member
I haven't seen much media outrage regarding this arrest (criticising the law, or 'pc gone made' style reporting), or outcry from political parties opposing it.
I don't think it's just 'GAF'. As I've said above, I actually find myself fairly confused on the whole situation, but I wouldn't expect many people to be fighting against such an arrest - maybe it's just a cultural/societal difference.
I think it's the content of what was said and the timing of it. Many people have trouble sticking up for freedom of speech in this particular sort of context and would rather pick a better battle to fight on this issue. A FAR more extreme example of this is people who struggle to justify freedom of speech when people like the Westboro Baptist Church regularly push against its boundary.
ElectricBlue187
Member
the fact that there are multiple people in this thread that are OK with this kind of arrest makes me very glad that gulf exists. Why would this law ever change if you and so many others in your country are sort of 'meh' about its existence or, worse, support it wholeheartedly
Is there no ACLU equivalent in the UK/EU? That's the most important reason for its existence, standing up for people's rights when it isn't culturally acceptable to do so.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The point is that the freedom to make distasteful jokes about murdered children is not high up on the list of freedoms people care about. I know people are gonna say slippery slope etc, but look at mcarthyism and how far that was allowed to progress in a country that values free speech so highly. I personally have no problem with a law that prevents people posting offensive jokes in inappropriate locations like memorial sites, sounds like they went too far in this case though .
Roger Danish
Member
What a weak rationale to imprison someone...
LyleLanley
Banned
What the fuck am I reading? You actually have no problem with someone being arrested for making an offensive joke?
That's the whole point. Protecting free speech in cases like this will set a precedent that prevents things like McCarthyism from ever happening again in the future.
As far as morbid humour goes, that's actually a pretty decent joke. I can't believe that being offensive is a crime.
We're in more modern, technological times now. We just now have developed the technology to know the last thing that went through Princess Diana's mind.
We're in more modern, technological times now. We just now have developed the technology to know the last thing that went through Princess Diana's mind.
The engine block.
PumpkinPie
Banned
They have to be seen to be punishing someone in the eyes of the public, or else we'd have knobhead vigilantes taking things into their own hands and burning his fucking house down.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
In an inappropriate location? No. I would also have no problem if the westboro baptist church people were arrested for protesting at funerals either.
Do you think it is acceptable for someone to make rape jokes on a memorial website for a 5 year old girl?
ElectricBlue187
Member
No. Does that make it ok to arrest them for a victimless crime because he offended your delicate sensibilities?
Roger Danish
Member
Acceptable? FFS. No, it's not "acceptable." The proper recourse would be for the site owner to delete his comments and maybe ban his IP from posting there again. Are you seriously suggesting that jail time would be warranted?
Is that Ronald McDonald "WTF am I reading" image banned here?
Dead Man Typing
Member
Is Facebook a public place? Is it subject to public decency laws?
I don't know. There are some tough questions about the internet and how we interact with it going forward. Everything from telling a joke to cyber bullying has to be dealt with some kind of responsibility. You are responsible for what you post online.
But this is the part that I don't understand. How do you prove this man made this post? How do you know if a friend posted it as his status when he left his phone for a minute? Unless he admits his guilt or you have proof that the post could only have been made from his device, from a certain location when it was known he was completely alone - I don't see how you prove it.
I don't know. There are some tough questions about the internet and how we interact with it going forward. Everything from telling a joke to cyber bullying has to be dealt with some kind of responsibility. You are responsible for what you post online.
But this is the part that I don't understand. How do you prove this man made this post? How do you know if a friend posted it as his status when he left his phone for a minute? Unless he admits his guilt or you have proof that the post could only have been made from his device, from a certain location when it was known he was completely alone - I don't see how you prove it.
LyleLanley
Banned
I don't think it's acceptable but I also don't think someone would deserve to be arrested over that. Either way, that seems beyond the point in this scenario since, as far as I know, he posted this on his own Facebook page.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
How? It was holding the private organizations that branded people communist responsible for the effects of that 'speech' that helped break up the McCarthy era. Free speech would have allowed them to claim that someone was a communist with impunity.
ElectricBlue187
Member
you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the term 'free speech'
I will rectify this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
First, you're dealing with libel/defamationnot hate speech. Two different issues. I believe hate speech should absolutely be protected.
Second, the whole point was that they couldn't speak out (even if they were communistwhich is also protected under the constitution) without fear of reprisal; the government's (and the private entities' blacklists, which the government tacitly consented to) pressure, primarily the forced confessions, meant that the very concept of McCarthyism itself was an infringement on freedom of speech and expression. The government used intimidation tactics to prevent people from free expression.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
That is one fucked up joke.
User 73706
Banned
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
"Defamation laws may come into tension with freedom of speech, leading to censorship or chilling effects where publishers fear lawsuits. Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights permits restrictions on freedom of speech when necessary to protect the reputation or rights of others.[33]"
"Freedom of speech" would mean exactly that, no restriction on speech at all, but that is untenable in a functioning society. So we remove a bunch of stuff that we consider unprotected speech, there is no rule book for this other than the one we make up. It is no more right to have defamation than malicious speech be considered unprotected.
ElectricBlue187
Member
The line is drawn when you are saying things that are untrue with no proof and for no other reason than to hurt one's reputation or rights, such as when you call Lucile Ball a commie
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
That's some Orwellian bullshit. The dude probably deserves to get his ass beat, but making it a criminal offense is stupid.
I think it's worth repeating this guy didn't intentionally go out and troll a memorial page. He posted the joke, some Maude Flanders do-gooder screenshotted it and posted it to said memorial / tribute page.
There should be no legal protection from being 'offended'. I am once again in shock that this is actually being defended. Every single person here would have said something in their lives about as offensive as what this guy said.
There should be no legal protection from being 'offended'. I am once again in shock that this is actually being defended. Every single person here would have said something in their lives about as offensive as what this guy said.
The Faceless Master
Member
yep, someone sweep up the galleys, this outrageous joke surely deserves capital punishment.
- Status