Strangelove77
Member
That's hella insulting, bro.
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Man, Chloe from life is strange is the worst
- Thread starter Heroman
- Start date
That's hella insulting, bro.
WrenchNinja
Member
People saying you just don't get it man sound like the tidus laughing defenders
no we do, we just don't like her
no we do, we just don't like her
Earthpainting
Member
Yeah, same for me. One of the easiest choices I made in the game.
Coffee Dog
Banned
i'm sorry to break this to you, but i don't think anyone is missing the point of the degrassi high school characters of this game
they are just, you know, criticizing them
like, yes, chloe is trash on purpose. i get it. but i also understood that after playing the early episodes, so why did the game force me to spend 8+ hours with a frustrating character? That's poor pacing. I would have a whole lot less problems with Chloe's character in general if the game was a lot shorter, her character arc was too simplistic for the game's length.
Word
Flame Lord
Member
Seriously.
Only good thing she ever did was sacrifice herself for the town.
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
Chloe represents a lot of things I hated in my peers growing up, but I ended up really liking her character. I can't quite articulate why.
I tend to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to characters like Chloe because I judge them subjectively based on the world around them and the events that shape them, so I'm a bit more tolerant of her and characters like her. I think this might be one of those cases where reality is unrealistic (TV TROPES WARNING), and by attempting to create a character that's true to life, writers can go too far and create a character that negatively defies audience expectations and thereby elicits deeply negative reactions. I think this is pretty evident here, given that Chloe is a damaged teenage girl who's riddled with angst, and it's only compounded by the game's stilted dialogue and forced slang usage, particularly in her case.She was Max's best friend - so she was by proxy my "best friend" throughout my Life Is Strange playthrough.
But it's really lame how she says Step-Fuhrer and Hella? So what - she's an 18-year-old punk-rock girl in modern day America - these people will have vocabulary and mannerisms different than you.
But she's so whiny? The girl has lost everything important to her. Her dad dies. Her lover (Rachel) is missing. Her own best friend (Max) disappears from her life for 5 damn years.
I wouldn't change anything about Chloe. I wouldn't change anything about the dialogue either. It gives a window into modern day tweener/teenage Americana. Before I played Life Is Strange I never knew what "kek" meant - and I find it cute that only thanks to this game, dev'd by a French studio, have I gotten a glimpse into that word and other mannerisms.
But maybe I have a truly soft spot for this game only because of the Pacific Northwest setting. I don't know what it is about Oregan/Seattle and the Pacific Northwest of the USA but this setting hits the sweet spot for me. From Alan Wake, to Gone Home, to Life Is Strange, I feel like there's something particularly magical when a dev tries to tackle that setting. So, Max and Chloe and all their "hellas" and "keks" are possibly getting a pass because of that.
The problem with creating a good antihero is straddling the line between the character's disagreeableness and likability. It can be very difficult to establish a character that's an asshole and make the audience come around to them, and any form of redemption becomes cheapened if the audience isn't actually rooting for them. This basically invalidates the entire work itself (or at the very least, a significant part of it). In an absolute worst case scenario, you get a character like Dante from DmC, who's largely perceived as an irredeemable piece of shit, or even outright villains like Kratos from God of War (not that a villain protagonist is a bad thing, but that's a bit different and requires different setup to work, and the audience would want to know that going in to a work). Handled well, you get characters like Kain and Raziel from the Legacy of Kain series--masterfully crafted and well-written personalities with the moral depth and complexity of geological strata.
I don't think Chloe's on the level of irredeemable asshole--in fact, I appreciated her as a character and enjoyed her character development (admittedly, I do have a soft spot for her archetype). But I'm not really surprised that her character fell flat and even backfired with a lot of people.
My understanding about Shinji is that a lot of the fanbase hated him because he held a mirror to them. Kind of similar to Raiden in MGS2. I might be off the mark, though.
Admiral Woofington
Member
The best part of the comic is that I didn't realize someone with the power to draw would perfectly encapsulate my joke with the
But I guess the game didn't need to explain it, it just bothered me.
time travel mechanic of being able to stay where she currently was while reversing time, what's her frame of reference?
But I guess the game didn't need to explain it, it just bothered me.
She's annoying
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
In Episode 3 when she rages
Wish Max would have just left her. Fuck Chloe. Let me have Kate.
and says she actually states she's angry and blames her Father for dying, and it being his fault her life is shit, is when I lost all feelings for her.
Wish Max would have just left her. Fuck Chloe. Let me have Kate.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Guys this isn't a spoiler free thread, put spoilers up.
SolidSnakex
Member
Yeah,
I don't think it's much of a choice in the grand scheme of things. In order to "save" Chloe you to feel that she's more important than everyone else on the planet including Max. Because you're fucking over everyone else including Max to "save" her. And you can never really save her because she's meant to be dead. She's going to be killed over and over again and Max is going to have to experience that repeatedly while putting herself through the time travel. Then you have all the other people that are going to be dying around them because Chloe is alive. I think the game in the end makes it clear that she has to die. Both endings spell that out as well.
Anyway, the best character is Kate.
No damnit, if I want to spoil the scene where Chloe rides around on a magic carpet throwing dog turds down peoples chimneys during Christmas then I shall spoil away.
That's so messed up.thank you for this
Admiral Woofington
Member
Personally the best character for me ended up being David or maybe Frank.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
This. Every time I was about to come around on her she did something stupid again.
She apologizes for that and acknowledges she was being a bitch later on, not that big of a deal in the long run.
I think Chloe is a overall a pretty well developed, good character. She's never super-duper-likable & can act selfishly, sure, but I don't think characters in fictions always need to be, just so long as they aren't being annoying for the sake of being annoying and show some development & growth after the things they go through during the story. She develops & grows throughout the game and some of her actions later on show that she's mostly a good person who just hurts on the inside and lashes out on people when she doesn't really know where & how to direct all that angst & anger, like teenagers (& adults) often don't.
Honestly, I also have a soft spot for her archetype (my avatar is of an angry-punk-rock-chick-from-a-broken-home character!) but even I found her annoying. She makes all the wrong decisions constantly, she acts as an obstacle more than a help in a lot of conversations, and
the game kills her so many times it just becomes eyeroll-inducing after a certain point
The only one I can think of is when they uncover Rachel Amber, which was probably the single most effective emotional moment for me in the game.
Holy shit, I can't stop laughing.
LurkerPrime
Member
How does "Chloe is the worst" = "I want to make Chloe suffer"? Does not compute.
But anyways, I really liked her part in Life is Strange. Chloe is very... lively and honest in her own way. She's goes through quite a journey, and the game wouldn't be the same without her. I mean, yes, she's also rather mean and immature, but it's pretty clear where that's coming from... All Chloe really wants is serenity.
Her and Max are a duo to remember.
But anyways, I really liked her part in Life is Strange. Chloe is very... lively and honest in her own way. She's goes through quite a journey, and the game wouldn't be the same without her. I mean, yes, she's also rather mean and immature, but it's pretty clear where that's coming from... All Chloe really wants is serenity.
Her and Max are a duo to remember.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Well I can't blame them acting as bffs because they're young. They're 18. When I was at that age I still had my bffs who the only thing that held us together was that we knew each other since junior high. Come college and we still occasionally hung out with each other but it became a thing where each of us drifted into different groups and eventually we became adults and while we keep in contact we make minimal effort to get together because we're too different of people and each has found their respective group of friends to be bffs with.
So them acting like bffs right now makes complete sense, they haven't done anything malicious to each other, are completely comfortable with the other person, and more importantly have been close together since childhood.
toastyToast
Member
Chloe sucks. There are some relationships that aren't worth rekindling. There are people you'll meet that you were better off not knowing.
Its so good.thank you for this
This. Girl was toxic as hell.Chloe sucks. There are some relationships that aren't worth rekindling. There are people you'll meet that you were better off not knowing.
Again, I point to the whole "reality is unrealistic" effect. Shitheads like Chloe are pretty true-to-life, horrid slang usage aside, but we as audiences generally don't appreciate such rawness in fiction. It takes great skill to create a character like Chloe and garner sympathy for her, because most people would write her off in real life about as quickly as they did in the game. It's a valiant effort from DONTNOD, but it clearly fell short.
Coffee Dog
Banned
But they'd been separated for years and became very different people. They should have, in theory, grown apart much you like did once you became separated from your old high school friends, but instead they were playing with guns and playing on the train tracks together like it had only been a month.
If Chloe and Max had started the game further apart, then the game would have the chance to sell me on their friendship as they grew closer together, and show why Chloe was worth such sacrifice. Instead, the big formative of moments of their friendship had largely already happened, forcing me to judge Chloe solely on Max's word and Chloe's actions, and those just weren't enough when Max's devotion seemed both endless and senseless, and Chloe trying her hardest to make the audience dislike her.
If they'd been in continual contact that'd be one thing - that's just the friendship surviving through inertia. But they stopped being BFFs for five years prior to the events of the game. And then when Max sees her again she's blackmailing some psycho dude and getting in debt from buying drugs off some fucko in an RV. Given how Max reacts to basically everyone else like that throughout the game I just don't buy that she'd instantly be so super tight with Chloe again.
FallenGrace
Member
i couldn't agree more. I hated her so much, so much. she's selfish, manipulative, irresponsible, just ugh! All the emotional scenes had no impact at all because I simply didn't care about her. Almost ruined the game but I really loved Max and the rest of the game so enjoyed it regardless.
The bit where she shoots herself in the junkyard I replayed over and over...
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
There's that other good version her though
Admiral Woofington
Member
Well yeah. On the rare occasion we meet up, we are still very warm to each other and talk about shit from the past. We can still be comfortable and honest and we usually say shit like 'we might not hang much but I'll always love you guys'. And that's now, maybe as I get older and see them less I'll phase them out of my life completely.
Chloe and Max are together again and left shit at a very awkward moment. They meet up again in not the best of situations. Chloe doesn't really have someone else to rely to, max feels guilty and is trying to rekindle the friendship, and once they realize that deep down the bullshit they can still be friends they basically go back to the mentality of nostalgia friendship.
I think the game did a poor job at showing just how close they were as kids, but my impression from implication was that they were inseparable and basically sisters.
Many variables could've happened that would have prevented them from getting close again, but the game was specifically written so the right situations for them to get close again were in place. If given similar situations as a teen I likely would have become bffs with the person again.
Psychoward
Banned
Totes mcgotes agree with you broseph
Max herself is all "what happened to you?!" in the beginning of the game and it's pretty clear that at first the only thing that really connects them is their past & the central disappearance mystery. She sticks around because they were BFFs and sees that she is in trouble & wants to help her. As the game progresses, there are things that show signs of the old Chloe and that's when they start to come truly close, even if Chloe does some dumb stuff still. Still, it's not like people can change completely in a few days, so it makes sense that Chloe is not a completely different, "I'm all better now, all the angst that the shit in my past has caused is gone now and I will stop doing dumb, selfish things" character by the end of a week. She shows signs of improvement, though. Some small, some bigger.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I honestly didn't even know that many people here disliked her, especially considering the world wide percentages I saw for fifth episode which were close to being an even split.
I was about to make some arguments for why that's not as unrealistic as you might think, but there's no point because (sadly) the writers' over-reliance on realism in her character led to a narrative failure whereby the deuteragonist was not well-received by a significant portion of the audience. This is the peril of sticking too close to reality when creating fiction, and it honestly makes a great case for why not all tropes are bad. Then again, I also have to respect that the writers didn't compromise their vision by making Chloe more palatable to a wider audience. Surely they knew that she would be received negatively, but perhaps they had hope that people might be forgiving? Hard to say.
also Woofington's got me covered
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Oh yeah, the entire game taking place in one week is goofy as hell. I guess timespans dont matter when you are a time lord
GlamFM
Banned
That´s only people who stuck with the game though.
I imagine a lot of people stopped playing way before that because of the bad writing.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I mean, I get what you're saying. Yes, there are people that catch up instantly and think its fine to meet up with someone they haven't talked to in five years to play with guns.
They just do not typically make for interesting stories, because they have silly decision making skills. Much like episodes of degrassi high school, endless series of poor decisions does not an entertaining end product make.
corrosivefrost
Member
Just about every character in the game is annoying in his or her own way. Chloe is no exception, I disliked her as I disliked just about every other "major" character in the game, but for different reasons.
What in the hell did I just read?
Max using Chloe as a Jake Suit? Jesus...
thank you for this
What in the hell did I just read?
Max using Chloe as a Jake Suit? Jesus...
I thought about giving him a kiss, but decided to zone him, even having rebuffed Chloe. Ended up alone and asexual. Just like real life. lol
Heh, I'm not sure if you're being cheeky or not, but that's pretty much the point I was making--sticking too close to reality doesn't necessarily make for interesting fiction, primarily because we have certain expectations for what makes good fiction (and tropes are the crystallized essence and building blocks of said fiction).
THE Caffeinated
Member
Even in a game that's set in an Art School where the world's worst people gather, she still shines as being incredibly terrible.
Also this .gif is amazing.
Eh? If anything, having characters like Chloe make for far more interesting stories than aiming to have characters who are always likable (or even love-to-hateable) to everyone. Besides, even if Chloe makes bad decisions, the game has time travel & you can usually talk her out of those bad decisions, which Chloe acknowledges by the end of the game & is actually grateful for.
I just fundamentally don't believe the authors were trying to make Chloe some hyper-realistic character given basically every other character in the game is essentially some play on a stereotype or trope. I think they genuinely believed they were making a likeable character the audience would love as much as Max does and they just failed at it.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I'm not even arguing that characters need to be likeable; I certainly believe they don't. but when the entire narrative hinges on a redemptive arc for a character, taking many many hours to get to that redemptive point is an exercise in tedium. I knew that Chloe was angry and lashing out at the world after having a bad childhood after episode 1. The game was too long for Chloe's simplistic character arc to remain interesting, and occupied most of that time with her being a frustrating presence in the narrative.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
My problem with Chloe is not a question of whether she is realistic but whether she is interesting. She's a horribly unlikable person with no redeeming traits whatsoever. An egoistic, rebellious for its own sake, criminal and uneducated junkie who does nothing but harm to everyone else. That's not interesting, the reasons for that are neither, because they are obvious and her not being likable at all is a problem if you spend most of the time in the game trying to protect her from her own stupidity. Making characters that are behaving like asses but still are enjoyable also is something that has been excersied a lot in tv shows over the past few years, with variations of the Sherlock Holmes type (notably: House) being a very obvious example. But even in games. What redeemable traits does Wario have? He's still very much enjoyable. Chloe might be more realistic than House or (especially) Wario, but the problem does not lei within the realism, but within the role such a shithead has to play in the game and for the player. Since, overall, the characters are very stereotypical (including Chloe, but I agree in principle such persons exist) in Life is Strange, I can't excuse this with great care being taken for realistic and deep characterisations. Because her characterisation is as deep as a puddle.