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Man I miss Sega, the console market hasn’t been the same without Sega
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
this is more like bandai namco where pac man/sonic is the mascot and nothing more, where the real games are more more like elden ring and tekken
BlackTron
Member
I never said Sega has no games. I'm just not interested in a Sega console without Sonic. Just as I'm not interested in a Nintendo console without Mario. It's just not cool anymore. That we compare Sonic to Pac-man at Namco these days shows how far he's fallen. Sonic was made as a Mario-killer, and once succeeded at that, now he's "nothing more than a mascot character" likened to Pac-man. Brutal.
BlackTron
Member
At minimum all they need is physics, level design, and music. They don't need anything else for a successful Sonic game, even side characters. If they add in many other elements successfully but fail at any of those core 3 aspects, then it's not Sonic and they failed. (See: Generations having the makings of greatness, but failing on the physics, perhaps the most core tenet of Sonic of all).
Sonic is a great fit for an open-world game owing to his speed, but he still needs levels. They basically already tried this "Hedgehog of the Wild" formula with frontiers. They just botched the execution. The open world is full of these butt ugly platforming chunks. It feels meandering and aimless. The levels are devoid of all creativity just sections of old Sonic games and all look alike. I can get more Sonic DNA in a 1 hour playthrough of Sonic's part of SA than this whole game. People think the game is OK because it lets you run around a big area as Sonic, the dream. Now just put it in a game that doesn't suck balls. That remembers Sonic used to compete with Mario and actually make the plumber sweat.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
sega was cool, really wish they were still releasing hardware, but their execution was a mixed bag.
dont want to do the rest, but you get it.
and it ate 10 AA batteries in 9 minutes.
and it sucked, like nintendo's virtual boy.
didnt support controllers for player 1, only player 2, ha.
basically japan only
sega CD was basically an attachment for FMVs on your genesis.
sega's arcade division was killing it, but sega's home console 3d struggled and really didnt help popularize 3d.
sort of. all the 32x games were unique to the attachment, unlike modern mid-gen refreshes.
ehhh only the genesis had BC support, and you needed a cartridge adapter.
dont want to do the rest, but you get it.
Sojiro
Member
This is a setup I really want to get sometime. Saturn is one of the consoles that I have had no exposure to, but really want to explore the library of games (the other was Turbo Gfx 16, but I did pick up a TG 16 mini about a half year ago so I am good there). I have a fondness for the PS1 era of games (low poly, chunky textures and experimental games) so I imagine I would like what I find on that console. Getting both the satiator and Saturn will be a bit pricey, but I will make that jump sometime.
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fart town usa
Gold Member
Yea, I'm not sure what Saturn's go for these days but the Satiator is like $300. It's worth it though for the ease of use and having access to the full library. It's such a killer console. Honestly, people go on about DC but Saturn is better in my humble opinion.
My full setup involves a trinitron wega, the HD Retrovision component cables, two light guns, a 3D pad, Pro Action Replay cart. All I need is the mission stick thing for Virtual On but thankfully there's no shortage of those in Japan and they're totally affordable so I'll get to it some day.
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SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
SEGA is the GoAT. I miss SEGA hardware so much.
Living in the Netherlands, I never really experienced a relevant SEGA. Their only console that ever saw mainstream attention was the Megadrive and even that was a distant second to SNES. I have never seen a Master System, Saturn or Dreamcast for sale in any of our major toy retail chains. Intertoys, Bart Smit, Speelboom, hell even postorder companies like Wehkamp didn't carry SEGA stuff.
The first and only time I ever saw a (new) Dreamcast for sale was when I started college in a somewhat big city in 2001, and that city had an actual gameshop that sold Dreamcast stuff. I still remember them firesaling pretty much everything, and you could get a Dreamcast, VMU, extra controller and a bundle of 6 games including Sonic Adventure for something like 200 guilders (less then a 100 euros, although the euro didn't exist until 2002, but for context). At the time I was hyped for the GameCube and didn't buy it because Dreamcast LOL, but man, later on did I wish I had. There was a brief period around 2002ish where you could get basically every major Dreamcast game ever released for peanuts. Would've made for a nice addition to the collection.
The first and only time I ever saw a (new) Dreamcast for sale was when I started college in a somewhat big city in 2001, and that city had an actual gameshop that sold Dreamcast stuff. I still remember them firesaling pretty much everything, and you could get a Dreamcast, VMU, extra controller and a bundle of 6 games including Sonic Adventure for something like 200 guilders (less then a 100 euros, although the euro didn't exist until 2002, but for context). At the time I was hyped for the GameCube and didn't buy it because Dreamcast LOL, but man, later on did I wish I had. There was a brief period around 2002ish where you could get basically every major Dreamcast game ever released for peanuts. Would've made for a nice addition to the collection.
I fear the future will only be for mobile and companies then will have no choice but to follow the trend.
cireza
Member
Maybe that when you were a kid you could eat 10 AA batteries in 9 minutes, but the Game Gear actually needed 6.
clarky
Gold Member
Almost as if you just described Xbox. (note i have a soft spot of Xbox because for some reason i see it as a dreamcast successor)
Elder Legend
Banned
Microsoft should buy Sega. Funny enough, Sega offered themselves quite a while ago in the OG Xbox days and Microsoft declined. Dumb decision.
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WhiteWaterM00se
Member
It would have been interesting to see Sega survive longer and release a console during the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii era. Sega had the 2k sports series, Skies of Arcadia, Yakuza, Phantasy Star Online, Sonic Generations. So I think it would have been interesting to see how Sega would have approached that generation With gimmicks like the Wii or how they would have gone.
clarky
Gold Member
Thats actually one acquisition id be all for.
I was aware of the offer and yeah like you said one of many stupid decisions. Up there with tom seleck turning down indiana jones
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Elder Legend
Banned
and yes Xbox is technically the Dreamcast 2. I will never forget, I moved to USA in the year 2000 (i was 10 years old) and then in 2001 all the hype was going on for Xbox, PS2 and GC. My 1st Xbox games were Jet Set Radio Future, Dead or Alive 3, Yakuza Wrecked, Blood Wake and Oddworld Munch's Odyssey. The graphics on Xbox at the time were absolutely insane, it was such a power house. I really miss the old Xbox, it was an amazing childhood for me. 360 was fantastic too with the pioneering of Xbox Live and online play. Jesus I feel so old, where has the time went, why does everything has to be so complicated in todays day and so annoying. Sometimes I just want to go back in time and cry.
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I miss the old SEGA, straight from the '90s SEGA
Churn out the hits SEGA, Sonic and Knux SEGA
I hate the new SEGA, the mobile game SEGA
The always safe SEGA, microtransact SEGA
I miss the arcade SEGA, Virtual Fighter SEGA
I gotta say, at that time I'd like to play SEGA
See, I remember SEGA, there wasn't any SEGAs
And now I look and look around and there's so many SEGAs
I used to love SEGA, I used to love SEGA
I even had the Genesis, man, I thought I was SEGA
What if SEGA made a game about SEGA
Called "I Miss The Old SEGA"? Man, that'd be so SEGA
That's all it was SEGA, we still love SEGA
And I love you like SEGA loves SEGA
Churn out the hits SEGA, Sonic and Knux SEGA
I hate the new SEGA, the mobile game SEGA
The always safe SEGA, microtransact SEGA
I miss the arcade SEGA, Virtual Fighter SEGA
I gotta say, at that time I'd like to play SEGA
See, I remember SEGA, there wasn't any SEGAs
And now I look and look around and there's so many SEGAs
I used to love SEGA, I used to love SEGA
I even had the Genesis, man, I thought I was SEGA
What if SEGA made a game about SEGA
Called "I Miss The Old SEGA"? Man, that'd be so SEGA
That's all it was SEGA, we still love SEGA
And I love you like SEGA loves SEGA
cartman414
Member
Included the thumbstick + every existing button from the Saturn pad. And also a detachable front cord for (sadly unreleased) modules. The latter would have been a better fit for the DC pad and its multiple slots.
Much, much better than the DC's jagged edge d-pad + reduced buttons, and bottom protruding cord.
DC was great but Saturn was one of the last bastions for pure 2d. (Though at least more modern GPUs are general function enough with plenty of RAM.)
I think that was a more of vague willing possibility by Stolar/Moore, the latter says that Microsoft didn't go full gas on acquisitions because of the IE antitrust case that was finished months before Xbox released.
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
I'm still waiting for Retrobit to make this happen.I miss this... Why the hell Sega didnt take this and just add some triggers and two thumbsticks is beyond me.
clarky
Gold Member
Bro lets just hug. User name checks out. and think of what might have been. Xbox/ GC/ PS2/360. Any better?
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bender
What time is it?
I thought that was only a trick with the original Playstation. haha
Deerock71
Member
I got the idea from Playstation owners. It quit working on me, so I thought it was worth a shot!
bender
What time is it?
I love this type of history. Did you know the original PlayStation is highly regarded as a CD player amongst audiophiles?
Brigandier
Member
So true, They really are a shell of their glory years.
I can't believe the amount of IP they have that are on the scrapheap.
I wouldn't trust Sega with any of these games anyway as they don't have Overworks AM2 and Sonic team anymore who were all incredible studios.
username12
Member
I'm good with Sega on PC.
Killer8
Member
Part of me always thought that Microsoft should buy Sega and release the Sega branded Xbox Series X they joked about in the leaked emails.
The companies were spiritually intertwined during the Dreamcast and original Xbox era to the point that Xbox was like the Dreamcast 2.0. It wouldn't feel dirty in the same way that dropping $69 billion for Call of Duty would.
Tell me that you wouldn't buy a Sega branded Xbox console (or a wrap) styled like this.
The Phil emails suggested they'd be wanting to acquire Sega for IP like Jet Set Radio, PSO, Sega Rally and Sonic. Not even Sega give a fuck about some of those any more (to the point that indies have to step in to make games like Bomb Rush Cyberfunk and Over Jump Rally).
Bankrolling a huge Phantasy Star Online 3, Otogi 3 by From Software, giving Japan tools like the Playground Games engine to make Sega Rally 4, or spending some money to secure all the licensed music for a JSRF 4K remaster are things you can only dream about...
The companies were spiritually intertwined during the Dreamcast and original Xbox era to the point that Xbox was like the Dreamcast 2.0. It wouldn't feel dirty in the same way that dropping $69 billion for Call of Duty would.
Tell me that you wouldn't buy a Sega branded Xbox console (or a wrap) styled like this.
The Phil emails suggested they'd be wanting to acquire Sega for IP like Jet Set Radio, PSO, Sega Rally and Sonic. Not even Sega give a fuck about some of those any more (to the point that indies have to step in to make games like Bomb Rush Cyberfunk and Over Jump Rally).
Bankrolling a huge Phantasy Star Online 3, Otogi 3 by From Software, giving Japan tools like the Playground Games engine to make Sega Rally 4, or spending some money to secure all the licensed music for a JSRF 4K remaster are things you can only dream about...
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Deerock71
Member
Makes sense, since I always thought of Sony as a stereo and tv manufacturer back then.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I loved my Sega consoles but let’s be real - they only had one hit console.
You could see with Dreamcast, the failing interest among the few third parties that supported it. Plus could you imagine the console wars when Sega’s big games are Outrigger and Ooga Booga?
You could see with Dreamcast, the failing interest among the few third parties that supported it. Plus could you imagine the console wars when Sega’s big games are Outrigger and Ooga Booga?
dem
Member
As an OG Sega fanboy... Sega was an absolute disaster.
They had a golden run of a few years in the home market... but it was mostly just embarrassment.
Then a little bit longer in the arcade market.... just as arcades were dying.
They did go out on their shield with Dreamcast though. They gave it a try. Pretty good effort after the absolute gong show of SegaCD, 32X, Saturn. Oof that was an ugly run.
They had a golden run of a few years in the home market... but it was mostly just embarrassment.
Then a little bit longer in the arcade market.... just as arcades were dying.
They did go out on their shield with Dreamcast though. They gave it a try. Pretty good effort after the absolute gong show of SegaCD, 32X, Saturn. Oof that was an ugly run.
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dem
Member
And even at the end of that... they were getting their face pounded in by Nintendo.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Would easily prefer them to Microsoft for damn sure. Just get people who can actually make sensible business decisions and not have their main branches go to war with each other.
IMO they should've done more to integrate the console and arcade side of things prior to Dreamcast/NAOMI era. Which in itself was a great start of finally doing it properly, but they could've gone further if they had the money to.
I can see where you're coming from TBH. These days doing a new mass-market gaming console/platform would require money Sega simply doesn't have. I don't even think they could get enough in way of loans to do it, and it's not like they could go into a partnership expecting to take the lead. Considering they haven't launched a console in over two decades, they wouldn't have any relevant experience to the current market to command that type of position in a partnership.
But I 100% would love to see them do something with arcades/FECs in full force. I feel that's a a market waiting for true potential to be tapped into but none of the current Big 3 have the interest or outside perspective to see it. Sega have some involvement in the area still; even as recent as 2017 they put out some impressive stuff like HOTD: Scarlet Dawn and Sega World Driver's Championship. Neither of which have current-gen console releases BTW :/.
There are things on the business-end side with arcades/FECs that would have to be resolved and likely would still need a console involved to maximize solving that particular problem, because it has to make sense for the operating chains at the end of the day money-wise. But I feel it's very possible; in fact I've thought of a few ways myself, but they would still require a paired home console platform in the picture.
Because of this I do feel it would probably be best for Sega to partner with one of the Big 3 and while I feel Sony gives them the best well-rounded solution, I don't think Sony are in a position where they feel arcades/FECs would be a desired market to grow into. OTOH, Microsoft may find themselves in a position where they're "desperate" enough to actually consider it; unfortunately this also inevitably entertains the possibility that Microsoft would want full acquisition of Sega/Atlus to give it a go and, well, there's obvious reasons I'm against that especially in light of the leaks this week. Nintendo technically licenses some releases to arcades still with Bandai-Namco IIRC, or at least with Raw Thrills, but that's about the extent of their involvement there. Tech-wise they'd be the worst choice potentially, but they've had good partnerships with Sega in the past including stuff like F-Zero GX.
The question is if Nintendo would be willing to entertain a somewhat unorthodox business model involving the operators/FEC chains getting cuts off select software sales and such. Nintendo are the least likely to accept this. Microsoft are the most likely but will make sure their own stuff (Windows, Azure etc.) are ever-present. Sony seem they would be somewhere in the middle.
This is really informative and yeah, shows a lot of OGs are currently there and have been for a while. Hopefully in a post-Nagoshi era we can see more variety in Sega's AAA output beyond simply Yakuza, Sonic and Persona.
IMO they should've done more to integrate the console and arcade side of things prior to Dreamcast/NAOMI era. Which in itself was a great start of finally doing it properly, but they could've gone further if they had the money to.
I can see where you're coming from TBH. These days doing a new mass-market gaming console/platform would require money Sega simply doesn't have. I don't even think they could get enough in way of loans to do it, and it's not like they could go into a partnership expecting to take the lead. Considering they haven't launched a console in over two decades, they wouldn't have any relevant experience to the current market to command that type of position in a partnership.
But I 100% would love to see them do something with arcades/FECs in full force. I feel that's a a market waiting for true potential to be tapped into but none of the current Big 3 have the interest or outside perspective to see it. Sega have some involvement in the area still; even as recent as 2017 they put out some impressive stuff like HOTD: Scarlet Dawn and Sega World Driver's Championship. Neither of which have current-gen console releases BTW :/.
There are things on the business-end side with arcades/FECs that would have to be resolved and likely would still need a console involved to maximize solving that particular problem, because it has to make sense for the operating chains at the end of the day money-wise. But I feel it's very possible; in fact I've thought of a few ways myself, but they would still require a paired home console platform in the picture.
Because of this I do feel it would probably be best for Sega to partner with one of the Big 3 and while I feel Sony gives them the best well-rounded solution, I don't think Sony are in a position where they feel arcades/FECs would be a desired market to grow into. OTOH, Microsoft may find themselves in a position where they're "desperate" enough to actually consider it; unfortunately this also inevitably entertains the possibility that Microsoft would want full acquisition of Sega/Atlus to give it a go and, well, there's obvious reasons I'm against that especially in light of the leaks this week. Nintendo technically licenses some releases to arcades still with Bandai-Namco IIRC, or at least with Raw Thrills, but that's about the extent of their involvement there. Tech-wise they'd be the worst choice potentially, but they've had good partnerships with Sega in the past including stuff like F-Zero GX.
The question is if Nintendo would be willing to entertain a somewhat unorthodox business model involving the operators/FEC chains getting cuts off select software sales and such. Nintendo are the least likely to accept this. Microsoft are the most likely but will make sure their own stuff (Windows, Azure etc.) are ever-present. Sony seem they would be somewhere in the middle.
This is really informative and yeah, shows a lot of OGs are currently there and have been for a while. Hopefully in a post-Nagoshi era we can see more variety in Sega's AAA output beyond simply Yakuza, Sonic and Persona.
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Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I stopped gaming seriously when the Dreamcast died. Playing PSO are some of my fondest gaming memories.
Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
If Crazy Taxi and Jet Set Radio sequels are confirmed (seems locked to me), well, yeah, it would be already better than Nagoshi's policy.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
It's not even just that, though the lack of money and experience certainly helps. It's the fact that we already have 3 major platforms with all the mindshare and market share (PC, Nintendo, Playstation)
Even if Sega were to enter in full force, they'd still sort of end up like MS where they're the straggler that doesn't succeed much. The brand of being attached to the failure dropout Sega doesn't help much, either.
There are far more desirable options for entering the gaming space in 2023, such as streaming or ofc going third party. Making a brand new console with hardware and constant exclusives to keep in mind is just too taxing when you can shit out a subscription or place your games on Steam and PS store, call it a day. less effort than making hardware, games and marketing for a brand new hardware box that people may or may not be psyched to plug into their tv.
ok fuck all 3. Sony & Nintendo have no interest and Microsoft are clearly insane.
Hear me out here, partnership with Nvidia.
Arcades would need amazing looking games to stand out. Like games that make Forbidden West look like redfall, level of graphical superiority. Who else to provide the hardware for these machines than a joint partnership between Sega & nvidia. The former makes the games, Nvidia creates the hardware. It'd be one set, and the games would be purely optimized to run on that machine. Imagine ONE SINGULAR GAME being devoted to take as much advantage and squeeze as much power out of the power of say, 2 4090s. With all the DLSS, RT acceleration and AI, they can make something groundbreaking.
Nvidia in the past has been a harder partner to work with because of their high prices. But high prices don't really matter when you're producing high power arcade machines that are expensive to manufacture anyways. a 1000 dollar GPU doesn't mean shit when the entire machine is 20k to manufacture. Not to mention that arcade machines simply do not sell as well as consoles for obvious reasons. A lot less stock to order and keep up with. lower manufacturing costs for both parties involved.
Not to mention that while these are still video games, they're arcades. They're meant to have a few short pieces of content that are endlessly replayable. The budget for them would cost way less than your average 40-60 hour AAA RPG, and they'd look just as good too. I'm convinced that a lot of the gaming industry's issues with budget and dev time is due to game length and content. Imagine how quick and easy it would be to pump out games when said games are meant to be at most 30 minute arcade experiences.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Pejo
Member
Sega to me will always be indicative of "games for fun". Nintendo kinda has the same feel, but theirs are more 'all ages' and childish by nature. Any game with a "virtua" in front of it, you knew it was gonna be an arcadey-ass good time, whether fighting, driving, shooting, etc. I miss arcade type games like you wouldn't believe in this drudgery of storygames and "press button to watch cutscene" type gameplay. I know the classics still exist and you can play them, but I'd love more modern arcade racers, light gun games, high production value beat 'em ups, party games, etc. Not that I would want this type of game exclusively, but it seems to be really missing in today's landscape unless you are ok with indie pixel games for the rest of your life.
Mismanagement and mistakes made with the Dreamcast is such a huge bummer. It was such a cool and inventive system, and I wish it would have succeeded instead of killing the company.
Mismanagement and mistakes made with the Dreamcast is such a huge bummer. It was such a cool and inventive system, and I wish it would have succeeded instead of killing the company.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
that Sega World Driver's Championship looks gorgeous and really fun to play. Plus all the initial D games they have developed over the years.
This is why i keep saying they still have the talent. They haven't lost any touch when it comes to making a fun and hype arcade racing game. They just need to give them more publicity. (and PC/Console release too, that would help)
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AREYOUOKAY?
Member
Sega will save gaming as they always have.
jayj
Banned
Couldn't agree more with any sentiment. I grew up with Sega consoles, my first console was a Sega Genesis, and I have fond memories of the 90's arcade scene when Sega was one of the best and biggest names around. I still love to play the games from back when they were producing consoles, there was a unique feel and presentation they had, and a certain pick up and play ability that nobody else could match.
They definitely left a hole in the gaming scene that nobody else could fill.
They definitely left a hole in the gaming scene that nobody else could fill.
Sojiro
Member
Saturns are going for around $130 for the NA model, JP models are a good bit cheaper. Sexy TV you have, I am very jealous. I came across a 32in Sanyo CRT that I have my PS2/GC/N64 connected to. It's a solid TV, certainly not as good as a Wega, but is solid, works, and most importantly, was free lol. It has two composite connections, S-video and two component connections if I recall correctly. I have a switch on the component connection to switch back and forth for the PS2 and GC since the TV stand with that bg ass TV isn't the easiest to move around and access the back. The thing that sucks is I don't have much access to it ATM, since all of my wife's shit is on the floor in front of it that she needs to go through and get rid of lol. What can ya do?
How does S-Video compare to using retro vision via component with the Saturn? Whenever I do get this rolling I was planning on using S-video for the Saturn, but if there is a significant enough of an improvement for going with something like retrovision it may be something to consider further down the line as well.
In Cold Blood
Banned
Yep. If only Sega had the money MS does and could have weathered the storm.
The idea of having arcade games in your home was the absolute best.
The idea of having arcade games in your home was the absolute best.
This was true maybe 10 years ago, now id argue they are actually making moves to revitalize old franchises, I'm pretty sure within the next year or two both a Crazy Taxi and Jet Set reboot are supposed to be announced given that leak from a year or so ago.