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Man refuses to drive 'No God' bus
- Thread starter subzero9285
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itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
msv said:
Almost as soon as I got home from work this whole discussion started and now that it's kinda toned down somewhat I'm watching Dawkins debate on Youtube and stuff :lol
UltimaPooh
Member
It's called religious freedom people...
If you're place of work does something that doesn't gel with your religious views they have to make accomidations.
It's like if you work at a restaurant... You are usually required to have short hair and no facial hair, that is unless your religion specifies that you grow out your hair. At that point eh restaurant will give youa beard hair cover thing.
If you're place of work does something that doesn't gel with your religious views they have to make accomidations.
It's like if you work at a restaurant... You are usually required to have short hair and no facial hair, that is unless your religion specifies that you grow out your hair. At that point eh restaurant will give youa beard hair cover thing.
Elfforkusu
Member
It's a fictional probability based on belief. There is no probability for a deity's existence. It's like coming up with a probability that the next schnozzberry I eat will be a green one.FiRez said:
Point taken re: my example though, guys, I'll concede it's a bit more severe and direct than the one on the bus. I'd still maintain that it's coming from the same direction, though.
I don't think that's true in most cases. Sadly in a few it is. Here in Netherland we had (have?) a ridiculous clause that lets the government employees responsible for marrying people (what the hell are they called?) refuse to marry same-sex couples on religous grounds. Absolutely retarded in my opinion. Why? Because there's no way to discern the validity of anyone's religiosity and no reason to place it above any other belief. You got a job, you do it. You don't? Get out. Pff, granting religious belief power over any other belief is just ridiculous.UltimaPooh said:
I personally have a problem with the advertisement, not because of the intent, but rather the implication that you can't enjoy life until you dismiss the existence of a god. The reverse is also true - claiming that you can have no joy or meaning in your life until you accept a particular religion is rude and accusatory.
This whole story is just created to troll though. I can appreciate his desire to not work on a bus that had the ad running on it and it's great that they were able to work out a compromise. But if the company deciding to take a hard stance they would have been perfectly justified in firing him.
This whole story is just created to troll though. I can appreciate his desire to not work on a bus that had the ad running on it and it's great that they were able to work out a compromise. But if the company deciding to take a hard stance they would have been perfectly justified in firing him.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Elfforkusu said:
I'm not sure I'm getting what you're saying? Atheism is the lack of belief in something with no real evidence.
You could do maths on the probablility of the color on the next dontknowwhatkindofberrythatis, however.
UltimaPooh
Member
msv said:
But you're not placing your belief over everyone elses...
In the case of this bus, the guy doesn't want to drive it with one of the advertisements on it? All you do is switch bus drivers the other bus driver doesn't have to bend over backwards to help the other out.
For the government employees responsible for marrying people you just replace one with the other, problem solved. Basically the place of business has to do a few extra things to make the employees happy, it's not like they have to redo their entire business model just for one employee.
I can't really blame the guy. I wouldn't want to drive around an advertisement that was contradictory to my beliefs, either.
Though people in general getting upset with the existence of these ads need to suck it up. I drive past Christian billboards that want to tell me that the only way to be happy is to pray to Jesus all the time.
Though people in general getting upset with the existence of these ads need to suck it up. I drive past Christian billboards that want to tell me that the only way to be happy is to pray to Jesus all the time.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
KevinCow said:
Oh, I thought maybe it's some weird fucking fruit I haven't heard of or something. Sounded kinda german :lol
Earthstrike
Member
The idea that things like this shouldn't be on buses is pretty absurd. There is no real reason to reject it. Consider this. It recently becomes discovered that a strain of virus which affects the human brain has been in some food supplies for a variety of cities. The virus can be removed early on if detected. A bus comes out with an advertisement saying "Make sure to visit a psychiatrist to ensure this virus does not kill you". Would it be a valid concern that scientologists are offended by people accepting psychiatry?
The rejection of criticism of religion is the acceptance of intellectual relativism. There is truth and falsehood with respect to all assertions that can be made. Either god exists or he doesn't. There is a right and a wrong answer. There is nothing wrong with societal activites which drive an open discussion about a topic which has ramifications and has a truth value associated with it.
The rejection of criticism of religion is the acceptance of intellectual relativism. There is truth and falsehood with respect to all assertions that can be made. Either god exists or he doesn't. There is a right and a wrong answer. There is nothing wrong with societal activites which drive an open discussion about a topic which has ramifications and has a truth value associated with it.
KHarvey16 said:
Actually I understood that to be the point. If I was raised up to believe in a flying spaghetti monster, than I would. That means I would believe in Zeus, Thor or Batman if I was raised to do so.
It's like saying my beliefs make me ignore all logic and reasoning and the only logic is that if there is a God there can be FSM. Since I can't prove either one right or wrong I would have to be a fool to stand by either.
In the clip he didn't answer the question. He instead attacked the question in a way. If you are wrong about there not being a God and there is one than that sucks for you( I guess that really depends on the god though). If you are wrong about there being a God and there is not one then you will never know.
Whatever route you choose to take is your choice. As long as you are not harming yourself or anyone else I could care less. I don't think a message for or against God should be on a bus. It's a personal choice a person has to make. You should not be made to feel guilty or stupid by others for the choice you make.
Yes you are. What if someone believes same-sex couples shouldn't have to be refused by anyone. Now what belief will prevail? The religious one? Why? Same goes for the hair example. What if someone wanted to keep their long hair, because of a non-religious belief (like, it's natural, chicks dig it, long hair gives you special powers, etc. etc.), they wouldn't be allowed. But if he/she had a reason for it because of a religious belief, suddenly they're getting backup from the government. That's placing religious belief over other beliefs.UltimaPooh said:
What if there's no other bus? What if it's a hassle to change buses?
Don't agree, these people get paid to do their jobs, not proselytise their beliefs. Suck it up and marry them, complain afterwards for all I care. What if someone wouldn't want to marry a couple because they're religous? Because they're hippies? Because they're hindu. Because theyre pakistani. Because they're chinese. Because they're german. It's just stupid, makes no sense to allow employees to refuse to do their job.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I want to ban all religious bumper stickers. I'm tired of looking at them when I drive.
So you'd be in favor of (religious) students not participating in a discussion on evolution during science class?
So you'd be in favor of (religious) students not participating in a discussion on evolution during science class?
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Phoenix said:
Will Jesus guide me?
This makes no sense to me.
I guess I just don't understand why any religious person would be offended by someone else saying there's no god. I've heard it said that it's because they hold their belief in god very deeply, but I don't really buy that. I mean, I hold the belief that gravity exists extremely deeply - I stake my life on it every day. If someone were to tell me there was no gravity, I wouldn't be offended. I would laugh at them, precisely because I hold the belief deeply. Surely the deeper you hold a belief, the more sure of it's truth you are, and the less worried you would be by someone questioning it, right?
I think that many religious people are vaguely uneasy with their faith because they know it's irrational, and as a result are wary of thinking too critically about it.
I guess I just don't understand why any religious person would be offended by someone else saying there's no god. I've heard it said that it's because they hold their belief in god very deeply, but I don't really buy that. I mean, I hold the belief that gravity exists extremely deeply - I stake my life on it every day. If someone were to tell me there was no gravity, I wouldn't be offended. I would laugh at them, precisely because I hold the belief deeply. Surely the deeper you hold a belief, the more sure of it's truth you are, and the less worried you would be by someone questioning it, right?
I think that many religious people are vaguely uneasy with their faith because they know it's irrational, and as a result are wary of thinking too critically about it.
echoshifting
Banned
Bananakin said:
If you had to wear a shirt to work with a bible quote and a big cross on it, would it bother you?
If you had to sit in a cubicle with a bunch of scripture tacked up along the walls, and you couldn't remove it, and there was an empty cubicle next to you, would you request that your desk be relocated?
Some of you guys make the most ridiculous leaps in logic in these sorts of threads. Only on gaf could a thread like this be such a big deal.
echoshifting said:
Yeah, I see what you're saying, but those things you listed would be seen as reflecting on the person in question. If I were forced to wear a shirt with a bible quote on it, people would probably jump to the assumption that I was religious. So yeah, that might annoy me. But I don't think anyone would jump to any conclusions about a bus driver based on an ad on the bus he's driving.
I guess it comes down to reasoning - I wouldn't want to wear your hypothetical shirt or sit in your hypothetical cubicle, but only because I think it might reflect poorly on me. It certainly wouldn't be because I was offended by their presence (whereas that seemed to be the case for this guy).
echoshifting
Banned
Bananakin said:
And yet that's his office. He has to sit in it. It doesn't matter if you don't think that a bus is an extension of the bus driver, it's enough to understand that he did.
good on him, i say
this shit-- whether religious or anti-religious-- being plastered all over public spaces is annoying. if you wanna spread a message then do so by properly debating your viewpoint, not by paying for some lame ass advertising slogans.
if i were that guy and found my workspace invaded by propaganda for whatever way of life, i'd be pissed too even if i agreed with the message
this shit-- whether religious or anti-religious-- being plastered all over public spaces is annoying. if you wanna spread a message then do so by properly debating your viewpoint, not by paying for some lame ass advertising slogans.
if i were that guy and found my workspace invaded by propaganda for whatever way of life, i'd be pissed too even if i agreed with the message
THANK YOU. i always think of this when these threads pop up...Xeke said:
also, i CANNOT BELIEVE that this thread has gone on for 5 pages. it's stupidly simple. bus driver felt uncomfortable with ad on the side of his bus and asked to drive a different one. bus company said okay, no muss no fuss no issue at all. theres nothing wrong with the advertisement, and there's nothing wrong with the man being unwilling to drive that bus. i don't see much of an issue in any sense, so why are there people arguing about it?
echoshifting said:
All I can say is that if I were a bus driver, I know for sure that I wouldn't mind religious ads on my bus. It's kind of irrelevant, though - my point was, I don't get what's so special about religious beliefs that merely knowing that someone has a different belief causes offense.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
doomed1 said:
To be fair, at least two-three pages have been kinda off topic.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
KHarvey16 said:
Yo, by the way, this dude is pretty much saying what I was trying to say (taken from some science conference, I think):
http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2xGIwQfik
agrajag said:
He would? I've never heard of something like that :O
UltimaPooh
Member
Well that's a pretty dumb belief to have. That's saying that they don't like anyone because they don't believe what they believe.msv said:
Ummm watning to have you hair long because you enjoy it isn't a belief, it's a luxury. Also the business would also allow people to grow out their hair and facial hair for medical reasons as well not just religious.
There should be... Do all buses in a city have the same advertisements? It shouldn't be a hassle to change either. Anyway they have already said they are making accomodations.
They aren't refusing to their job. It's called tolerance. Also again, if someone had religious reasons to not marry people you just find someone else. Let's say hypothetically I wanted to marry a dude... Well I know the catholic church wouldn't do that, so I would just go to the courthouse (that is when gay marriage is legalized.)
Would you be in the camp to not allow Jewish people days off because of their holidays? Should we get rid of the Christams holiday as well?
I'm sorry, what? The hell are you talking about? It's dumb to believe no couples should be refused care by anyone? Don't like anyone? Who doesn't like anyone? What...UltimaPooh said:
See, this is where you totally miss the point. It flies over your head like a bird in the sky, soaring like an eagle, majestically searching for it's prey. So I was talking about beliefs, hello? Beliefs, you know what they are? Religious belief is an example. There are others also. Try reading it again, or if you have, come up with a more coherent/clear argument, because this doesn't make sense. And why are you infringing upon my hypotheticals? I stated them, you can't just change them. That ain't how I roll pal.
No, there are none, I just said there weren't any. It was a hypothetical situation. The hell are you on man.
They are. It's their job to ride a bus, marry people, etc.. They refuse to do that in these cases i mentioned (the hypothetical cases). And I was talking about the courthouse, not the church. It seems like you're on a totally different page here dude, girl whatever.
What?? What does that have to do with refusing service because of personal beliefs?
Yes it has relevance, to the real world that is. In that case it would only be condescending in that person's mind because of a misinterpretation. The person would think the other person was being condescending, but he actually wasn't, he misinterpreted the other person.Azih said:
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
agrajag said:
I'm gonna quote him on what he said a few posts into the first page when someone else said the same thing:
iapetus said:
LiveFromKyoto
Member
I can't believe there are people in this thread who don't think this guy was totally within his rights not to drive this thing. You guys have spent too long on the internet. Why is a guy who believes in God required to drive an advertisement around town that's just an insult to what he believes, and is sinful under his own religion?
This isn't even a free speech type of thing, it's just offensive. It's attacking a belief, it's exactly like an ad that says "The Quran is nonsense, come have fun at church."
This isn't even a free speech type of thing, it's just offensive. It's attacking a belief, it's exactly like an ad that says "The Quran is nonsense, come have fun at church."
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Good for him he?s a Hero.
Acts 5:29
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