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[Satch]

In Dragonball Z, the one time it kinda worked was when Goku beat Frieza and was just gonna leave him because he was like... a torso lol, but Frieza tried to use a surprise attack and Goku fucked him up with the "YOU FOOL" beam

but of course he wasn't really dead and came back anyway so w/e lol

 

[KittenMaster]

its prevalent trend in a lot of anime. Maybe its just a shounen thing, I dunno. I've never really taken the time to analyze it. It just annoys me when so often the murderer many times over is tried to be portrayed as the victim and seen as redeemable and "saved" by the protagonist. Biggest most well known example is probably the destroyer of worlds, vegeta.

This is true, though there was a higher reason for destroying planets (the whole "Frieza" thing) and he's not really redeemed by the protagonist himself, but by stealing Yamucha's girl for himself which is redemption through the biggest jerk move in history.

Damage is so easily undone in Dragonball that it makes it a lot easier to redeem villains, heh.

 

[JdFoX187]

There are times when it can be done well, but yeah I'm pretty much with you for the most part.

As with any writing device, if used with a certain finesse, it's fine. But there are times where it's so blatantly obvious that something is going to save the hero that it takes me completely out of the immersion, especially when it's done in the middle of the book/movie/game. And then there are series,and many Bond movies were notorious for this, where there's a constant miracle action to get the hero out of danger, and those are even worse.

Batman has to adhere to his moral code or he can't justify himself being any better than the costumed crazies he fights. That's sort of the entire point of the character. He has to justify why a guy can run around and otherwise break every law, etc, in his private war.

I always find more enjoyment out of interpreting it as that's just his way of consoling himself, and he really is no better than the criminals he fights. The man beats the shit out of people to the point where in anything resembling reality, they would be permanently injured or killed. Granted, comics as you say, aren't realistic. But it's a level of the character that works well with the right writer.

 

[Uchip]

its prevalent trend in a lot of anime. Maybe its just a shounen thing, I dunno. I've never really taken the time to analyze it. It just annoys me when so often the murderer many times over is tried to be portrayed as the victim and seen as redeemable and "saved" by the protagonist. Biggest most well known example is probably the destroyer of worlds, vegeta.

nah
they will stand there and explain their moves to someone theyre about to try to kill

 

[Professor Beef]

In Dragonball Z, the one time it kinda worked was when Goku beat Frieza and was just gonna leave him because he was like... a torso lol, but Frieza tried to use a surprise attack and Goku fucked him up with the "YOU FOOL" beam

but of course he wasn't really dead and came back anyway so w/e lol

Trunks subverted this though by just killing Freiza as soon as he came back to earth, though.

 

[Discotheque]

There is a reason for it in Batman - his moral code. Fair enough.

But he should still break the Joker's arms and legs.

moral code my butt. He's immoral by letting The Joker live. The millions (AND MILLIONS...sorry, I was watching some wwe videos) of people he's indirectly killed due to letting The Joker roam free....yeah

I love Batman though and I understand just how boring it would be with his best villain being dead.

 

[texasairhead101]

I remember having family over and watching The Dark Knight one day and my little cousin(7yrs) asked why they didnt just shoot the joker. I think he learned about due process in extent that night. he of course just thought it was stupid and kept saying throughout the movie "look they could just shoot him right now" pretty funny actually

 

[KittenMaster]

Trunks subverted this though by just killing Freiza as soon as he came back to earth, though.

Trunks came from a future where Metal Gear Rising existed and inspired his fighting style.

 

[Charles]

In before Gollum

 

[Staccat0]

That's were you're wrong. It's called a finale for a reason.

It's also not that entertaining when my suspension of disbelief gets fucked because of bad writing. Don't concoct the scenario if the only entertaining resolution breaks your characters.
It's fiction. You can't excuse the ending with the start.

EDIT: That said, certain characters can get away with it more because my suspension of disbelief is extended for them.

For example, Batman is a rich guy in a bat suit. I'll buy his wacky moral high ground. It's just more fun that way...
Even then though, it's been acknowledged. The Killing Joke is basically getting at this.

Spoiler

Batman KNOWS as much as the audience there is no "solution" to the Joker beyond killing him. Batman tries to TELL the Joker this and innocent people close to him get hurt. Poor Batman just catches him and realizes the futility.

Also, M a film I was just calling the best movie EVER in another thread is guilty of this trope... so yeah.

 

[Nose Master]

Because it would make it fucking boring, and short. I loathe people who make comments like this (usually during the movie/game) so god damn much.

 

[Staccat0]

Daleks are the ultimate example of a villain doing this to almost exhausting degrees. THEY FUCKING KNOW! HE FOILS THEM EVERY TIME. THE DOCTOR IS THE ONLY THING IN BOTH TIME ANDSPACE THEY FEAR AND YET...
Whatever. Glad the new show runner has taken a break from using Daleks.

Because it would make it fucking boring, and short. I loathe people who make comments like this (usually during the movie/game) so god damn much.

You aren't taking the point to it's logical conclusion though. You could simply write something less contrived, more original and more engaging for people who get distracted by that dissonance. Excusing someone for writing a silly ending because they created a bad scenario doesn't work for me. If you get to make the entire thing up, why make up something that can ONLY distract the viewer with it's flawed logic?
See my post above for more arguing

 

[G-Fex]

That's why I'm happy to know there's Robocop and Paul Kersey(Death Wish)

They pretty much always kill on site.

 

[Ferga]

It had to happen in burn notice sooner or later i guess

And yeah Westen pretty much always kills the main villian, give the guy a break!

 

[Ri'Orius]

It doesn't matter in the long run. If the writer wants the villain to come back, he'll find a way. Either he'll write that the hero doesn't actually catch him and the villain escapes, or the hero kills him but he comes back to life (or wasn't actually dead), etc. But the former case is even more unsatisfying since the hero doesn't win, and the latter doesn't fit very well in realistic fiction.

So this seems like a pretty good solution to me.

And I have to wonder this: in the case of heroes who do kill people, eg The Punisher, do they ever have villains that are as well-developed as Joker or Lex Luthor or Magneto? I haven't read any Punisher, so maybe I'm missing out, but I've gotta imagine that it's hard to create epic, memorable, fleshed-out villains if you keep killing them off.

Cliches are cliche for a reason, after all. This particular device is used often because it works very well.

 

[CloudWolf]

I always thought it was really stupid how in You Only Live Twice (?), Blofeld holds an unarmed James Bond at gunpoint and decides to shoot a random henchman instead of Bond.

EDIT: Heh, ninja'd

 

[Kitschkraft]

It's really two completely different things for hero's and villains. For hero's, it's more about showing their "compassion" or "moral code" as Sculli said. For villains, it's just silly writing.

For better or for worst, if you have a protagonist that kills, that can change the way the audience has to view the character and even the entire tone of the work as a whole. It's like, "instant anti-hero". If that's not what the writer wants than it makes sense for them to write around the main character killing.

Villains not killing the hero right away and setting up intricate death traps and stuff does irk me, but they are completely different things. Villains are usually evil so when they set up these traps, it's just a stupid way for writers to give hero's an easy way out, or to drag the story out, or two gives the villain a chance to explain his plans, make them seem more "diabolical", etc.

If Batman kills every thug and nemesis, it might be more "practical" in the real world, but it does change his character quite a bit.

A bond villain who has captured Bond, and decides to put him in some room with a gas trap or something, is just pure stupidity and should always be avoided assuming that the villain doesn't have some other justifiable reason for not killing.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

I always wondered this when I watched TMNT and Inspector Gadget. Like, why doesn't Shredder grab a gun and just shoot the turtles? Or why doesn't... fuck, I forgot the villain's name in Gadget, do the same?

But, then, eh, there wouldn't be a show.

 

[Moppet13]

In Dragonball Z, the one time it kinda worked was when Goku beat Frieza and was just gonna leave him because he was like... a torso lol, but Frieza tried to use a surprise attack and Goku fucked him up with the "YOU FOOL" beam

but of course he wasn't really dead and came back anyway so w/e lol

I really like how the only reason they brought Frieza back was to just kill him again at the beginning of the new season.

 

[MrHicks]

CAIN didn't destroy the head/brain???
really??????

PROTIP everything else can be rebuilt

so stupid

 

[pieatorium]

I always wondered this when I watched TMNT and Inspector Gadget. Like, why doesn't Shredder grab a gun and just shoot the turtles? Or why doesn't... fuck, I forgot the villain's name in Gadget, do the same?

But, then, eh, there wouldn't be a show.

Dr Claw

 

[Jex]

It's always useful as a crutch for a writer who doesn't want to kill off a major antagonist because they have no-one else as good in the pipeline. Case in point SETSUNA F SEI from Gundam 00 refusing to kill a certain red-haired terrorist on multiple occasions.

 

[Enco]

These idiots need to learn some fucking pattern recognition. I don't care if he says he has some valuable information you need, employ knowledge of past events and shoot him right now before he fucks up your shit again! He is literally standing defenseless in front of you and you have death lasers!

This.

It infuriates me how the writers always find a shitty way to bring them back. How many times does The Doc have to wipe them out? Jesus.

We need a realistic villain that kills people without explaining their plan too.

 

[Keio]

Isn't "he who fight monsters should see the it that he himself does not become a monster, for when you gaze into the abyss..." thing pretty much the answer: killing sucks, makes you lose sleep and turns you into what you are fighting. I'm happy to hopefully never have to kill anyone.

 

[strafer]

 

[gerg]

The Incredibles sends up this trope marvellously.

 

[Kinyou]

What I really hate is the "justified" kill at the end of the movie. Usually the good guy spares the villain's life and walks away. Then all of the sudden the villains pulls some kind of hidden gun, blade etc. and the good guy spins around and shoots him.
Bad Boys 1 did it for example.

If you want to kill the bad guy kill him, if you don't want to kill him SECURE HIM PROPERLY, LIKE HANDCUFFING HIM

Holy fucking Christ, Helo

Spoiler

foiling the plan to commit genocide against the Cylons

in BSG had me yelling at the tv. What a traitorous pussy.

The most annoying part was that it was just some kind of filler episode. You can't make big decisions like this without getting any consequences out of it.

 

[Shiv47]

Surprised no one has mentioned DC's Kingdom Come series, where the old guard heroes basically quit after a newcomer hero, Magog, kills the Joker and receives public adulation for it. The Joker has just killed a bunch of people yet again, and Magog basically says what most of this thread has been: why didn't you do it when you had a chance? Of course, Kingdom Come doesn't handle the issue with much subtlety, as Magog then tries to waste another villain (who wants to surrender) and causes a nuclear disaster as a result. The old heroes are shown to be superior because of their moral code that separates them from the villains. Otherwise, we are told, what is the difference between them?

 

[JGS]

I get the hero not doing it. It is understandable why someone would want to be a hero to save people but not want to kill doing it. Villians are a different story.

Some that didn't die that I liked or didn't mind.

Quantum of Solace - The oil can was a nice touvch although it's technically cheating as Bond has no issues killing anyone or having someone die for the sake of the mission.
Princess Bride - Another cheat since there was a very satisfying death of a bad guy.
Return of the Jedi
Dark Knight - Just because I like the conversation and neat camera angle at the end

 

[DEO3]

This is probably one of my biggest pet peeves re: popular Western fiction. I detest the continual precedence setting of killing as morally unjustifiable. It's unrealistic, naive and childish.

I don't know if its really a Wastern/Eastern thing, I broke my ankle a couple of weeks ago and so have been sitting home trying to keep myself entertained by watching a lot of Netflix - anime in particular, which is rather uncharacteristic of me, and this tortured 'if we kill him we'll be just as bad as he is' bullshit shit happens all the fucking time.

 

[chalkitdown1]

CAIN didn't destroy the head/brain???
really??????

PROTIP everything else can be rebuilt

so stupid

Pretty sure he shot him in the head. Isn't Robocop's head a machine like the rest of him but with a synthetic face mask to make it look less scary?

 

[Powdered Toastman]

7. When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you kill me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll say, "No." and shoot him. No, on second thought I'll shoot him then say "No."

From http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Trigun

Pretty much the whole series is this guy not killing the guy. All his problems would be solved if he would kill people.

The entire point of the series is that he's trying desperately to win a philosophical battle with his genocidal counterpart. Vash certainly takes it too far, as he nearly gets killed facing several of the Gung-Ho Guns, but his outlook on life is admirable.

 

[Error]

Batman is as crazy as his rogue gallery, the only thing that separates him from the villains is the fact that he doesn't kill.

if he killed then he'd just be what he is trying to fight.

 

[HappyBivouac]

"Not killing the guy" may be one of the biggest cliches in film/tv/games/literature, but I've always been a big fan of it. I often don't like endings in which the bad guy dies.

And I unabashedly look down upon people who get frustrated by this if they're over the age of 14. Annoys the shit out of me.

 

[MrHicks]

Pretty sure he shot him in the head. Isn't Robocop's head a machine like the rest of him but with a synthetic face mask to make it look less scary?

NO
the reason robocop is still "murphy" is because they could save parts of his brain
its the reason why he was OCP's only success

in R2 they use the brain of the main villian to create "robocop 2" with disastrous results

 

[f0rk]

You expect me to talk?
No Mr Bond I expect you to die!

 

[Jex]

"Not killing the guy" may be one of the biggest cliches in film/tv/games/literature, but I've always been a big fan of it. I often don't like endings in which the bad guy dies.

And I unabashedly look down upon people who get frustrated by this if they're over the age of 14. Annoys the shit out of me.

You look down on people who get frustrated by overused cliches?

 

[tokkun]

Here you go, OP. Tuco agrees with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYGRIGwR7Uo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The same Tuco that tries to kill Blondie from dehydration.

 

[Something Wicked]

Man, why won't he just kill that guy?

I say that every time to anyone standing next to Zach Braff in a TV show or movie.

 

[LuCkymoON]

This is the number one reason I stopped reading superhero comics.

 

[nothing]

transformers tv series

 

[Baconsaurus Rex]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhyDontYouJustShootHim

What have you done! Now I'm going to spend the next hours aimlessly browsing that website.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

These idiots need to learn some fucking pattern recognition. I don't care if he says he has some valuable information you need, employ knowledge of past events and shoot him right now before he fucks up your shit again! He is literally standing defenseless in front of you and you have death lasers!

So what if their previous experience tells them that they already did that and it ended very, very badly for them?