DoctorFling
Member
8 is by far the best in my opinion. I love pretty much all the tracks and the driving is super-tight.
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Mario Kart 8 is the worst 3d mario kart
- Thread starter Retromelon
- Start date
DrROBschiz
Member
It funny cuz i accept his criticisms and still think its the best mario kart game
Love your detailed writeup OP and I feel you pain in a few of your examples
Love your detailed writeup OP and I feel you pain in a few of your examples
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Oh yeah, that's awful. In something like Double Dash, you didn't necessarily even want to be in first, and it was rare to maintain it for a single lap. In MK8, being first early is fucking crucial, because you will literally have nothing to be afraid of for the next 3 laps. Have fun being 2nd through 8th though and getting fucking every 5 seconds.
Milly Osworth
Member
It doesnt innovate or surprise and the battlemode is pathetic. Its very forgettable.
Mario Kart 8 is the best in the series. It has amazing graphics, wonderful music, an excellent selection of tracks and characters, some really awesome online functionality and some of the best DLC ever. It also does the unthinkable and actually balanced the items so you have more of a fighting chance in some cases (for example, an actual counter to Blue Shells) And this is still taking into account the fact its battle mode is quarter-arsed and the roster includes such amazing inclusions as Baby Rosalina and Pink Gold Peach. The Koopalings are such a good addition, so I'm not complaining about them.
If those were altered it would be so good there would never need to be another Mario Kart game again.
If those were altered it would be so good there would never need to be another Mario Kart game again.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Mario Kart 8 didn't ruin the items; it fixed them. Mario Kart Wii was a fucking mess, as strong items were far too overpowered and frequent.
Mario Kart 8 strikes a great balance between having items that feel useful while still making you have to race well in order to finish in a good position. Mario Kart Wii felt like the outcome was completely random, as you could do really well and then get completely fucked. Or do really badly and then get items that skyrocket you up the positioning in mere seconds.
I don't remember what Mario Kart 7 was like.
Mario Kart 8 strikes a great balance between having items that feel useful while still making you have to race well in order to finish in a good position. Mario Kart Wii felt like the outcome was completely random, as you could do really well and then get completely fucked. Or do really badly and then get items that skyrocket you up the positioning in mere seconds.
I don't remember what Mario Kart 7 was like.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Baby Park is shit no matter which game we're talking about, people like it because they're insane.
Captain Chaos
Member
Nonsense, its the best in the series
Diddy Kong
Banned
There are only two valid complaints for MK8. The trash roster, and the trash battle mode. I really hope Mario Kart NX fixes those two issues 
I agree in some aspects with OP. Roster in MK8 sucks. There's three Marios and three Peachs! Why??? instead of adding other cool characters missing they decide to add another mario but on his tanooki suit... or another peach but on her cat suit. Let's not even mention pink gold peach!
Items are not that rewarding as in past MK games and I found them useless sometimes, especially the star as OP mentions. Bullets and golden mushrooms as well. I'm also not a fan of the new Rainbow Road and I actually prefer the RR Remake from Mario kart 64 even though is short as hell. Especially on 200 cc. Bowser Castle in MK8 is great though. Other than that this is my most played Mario kart game and one of my favorites, if not my favorite.
Items are not that rewarding as in past MK games and I found them useless sometimes, especially the star as OP mentions. Bullets and golden mushrooms as well. I'm also not a fan of the new Rainbow Road and I actually prefer the RR Remake from Mario kart 64 even though is short as hell. Especially on 200 cc. Bowser Castle in MK8 is great though. Other than that this is my most played Mario kart game and one of my favorites, if not my favorite.
I cannot disagree more, especially when frustrating, ugly, and unbalanced messes like MKWii exist. That game almost made me give up on the series.
MK8 is the best entry in the series. The gameplay was great, the track selection ) especially with DLC) is top-tier, and the presentation is fantastic.
MK8 is the best entry in the series. The gameplay was great, the track selection ) especially with DLC) is top-tier, and the presentation is fantastic.
Evil's Bane
Member
Most MKs you'll find haven't aged well when you go back to them. Despite my hang ups with this one, it's still the second or third best one for me. Double Dash and DS win for tighter controls, faster races, better roster and more effective items. If Double Dash had online though I feel like nobody would play this one.
TheMoon
Member
There has never been a single Mario Kart game with sound options. MK8 is the one that needs them the least, though.
Hysterical
Member
Not only is Mario Kart 8 my favorite Mario Kart, it is one of my favorite Nintendo games ever.
Agreed. He did a good job of forming his opinion and articulating it but I just disagree with most of it. MK8 is fantastic.
decoyplatypus
Member
I'll give you this: MK8 Bowser's Castle is boring. But MK8 Rainbow Road is a much more interesting and technical course than its SMK, MK64, and Double Dash equivalents.
The fact they came later and cost money doesn't mean we dismiss them when we're talking about the game. DLC tracks (weighing both their price and their quality) are very much part of the value of MK8. And they happen to include some of the strongest course design in series history.
I don't really follow this. Antigravity may be *mostly* cosmetic, but boosting from collisions with players and spinners (you were mentioning a lack of course obstacles earlier -- what about an entirely new kind of speed booster?) is at least as influential as Double Dash's 2 characters per kart and MK7's glider and underwater sequences--none of them radically change the gameplay.
MK8 also has 200cc, which is not just a smooth progression from 150cc but practically a whole different game mode. I wouldn't call that conservative.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Needs a competitive mode that exclude red shells and blue shells.
Great write up OP. I agree with a lot of your points. I think I might concede and agree with it being the worst. I still enjoyed it a ton though.
Great write up OP. I agree with a lot of your points. I think I might concede and agree with it being the worst. I still enjoyed it a ton though.
TheMoon
Member
Is there a sickness going around? I mean, how can you both agree and provide examples that are just not true?
If you suck at item management you're dead in MK8. You're just plain old wrong.^^
PSFan
Member
I have to agree with the OP. IMHO, MK8 is the first in the series where I didn't bother unlocking all the characters because it just became boring and samey after a bit.
One of the things that bugged me was how characters got unlocked randomly after winning a cup. I liked the previous ones which had specific challenges to unlock characters and stuff.
This game just wasn't as fun as previous ones either. And I've played them all. I couldn't put MK Wii down, but this one, I had enough after completing the 50cc cups.
Go ahead and pile on me like you did the OP NintendoGAF, but that's how I honestly feel.
One of the things that bugged me was how characters got unlocked randomly after winning a cup. I liked the previous ones which had specific challenges to unlock characters and stuff.
This game just wasn't as fun as previous ones either. And I've played them all. I couldn't put MK Wii down, but this one, I had enough after completing the 50cc cups.
Go ahead and pile on me like you did the OP NintendoGAF, but that's how I honestly feel.
TheMoon
Member
This seriously reads like a joke post, with the battle mode comment to throw you off the scent lol.
You can select items to disable. You can play shrooms only, for example.
Steve McQueen
Member
Yup. Awesome game.
Since you also gave a summary of what people like about the game the thread can be closed?
It pains me to have to make this thread. I downloaded MK8 12 AM on release night and was blown away by the graphics upon booting it up. I even came in 1st place in my first 7 races online. The more I played, though, the more it dawned on me: this is the worst mario kart I've ever experienced. The reason for the title is because super circuit and the original are the only ones I have not extensively played. My criticisms are based upon over 3,300 online races in MK8 played and a lifetime of appreciation and enjoyment of prior mario kart games.
Most Of The Tracks Are Boring
>
They have little in the way of hazards, unique quirks, or interesting level design. After playing as long as I have, the only two standouts I can remember are Mount Wario and the other wario one, with all the mud and speed jumps. There are like three different mario circuits/stadiums in the game and the only difference I can tell between them is that one of them takes place at night. Can you believe that they somehow managed to make bowser's castle AND rainbow road both boring? It's unbelievable. Comparatively, Double Dash's and MKWii's percentage of good tracks as opposed to all the tracks in game was like a solid 60% in both games, and even mario kart 7 and DS had a decent amount of classics to race on. They were brimming with imagination and fun. Many of the added dlc tracks were really good, but they came far after release and cost money to play. Nearly all of the included tracks in 8 are bland and forgettable, and its a fuckin' shame, man.
The Gameplay Is Conservative As Fuck
Nothing particularly innovative was added to the formula. Now, innovation is not really needed when you're working with a framework as prolific and successful as mario kart, and yet each game added huge new features: Mario kart 64 moved the series into 3d, Double Dash had 2 characters per kart, DS added wireless play, MKWii added 12 player racing, 7 added flight and underwater segments as well as car customization. In this regard, MK8 is a letdown. Antigravity is a primarily cosmetic addition. If you bump someone while in antigravity you get a small speed boost, that's about it. Furthermore antigravity negatively impacts the flow of the race because it often manifests in the form of a choice; there are two paths forward, and the player must go down one or the other. This breaks packs of players up and can halt your progression up the ranks for ten or twenty seconds as the person in front of you chooses a different route and gets away. This leads to my next point.
The Mario Kart 8 Caste System (AKA Items have been RUINED)
The mechanics of the way races occur have evolved into something foreign and disgusting. Simply put, items are not good enough to help you make comebacks anymore. In MK8, if you don't break away from the pack of other players at the first item box, you will spend the whole race fighting the same 3 players to break out of ninth place. While the poor bastards in the back keep belting each other and holding each other back like crabs, the rosalina or metal mario in first place speeds away, never to be seen again. This is allowed because items rarely catapult you to high positions like they would do in past mario karts. In MKWii, getting a star would bring you up four or five places, if you were at least ok at racing and didn't constantly fall off the trac or bump into walls. In MK8, when you use a star no noticeable speed increase happens whatsoever, it functions like a temporary invincibility shield, and you will be lucky to move up one or two places, if that. Hundreds, and hundreds of times I would spend entire laps around the same position I started in, not making progress, because 1) items don't have the potency/game changing factor they used to, like the star, and 2) you and the losers around you will keep smacking each other with boomerangs and shells while the players in 2nd and 1st place get away. If I can be allowed to speak anecdotally for a moment, MK8 allows two players to race 10 other people online from the same WiiU, locally. I played local online with an associate, estimating conservatively, 20 to 30 hours of online races before they came in 1st place ONCE. (It was funny for me to laugh at and constantly tease him that somehow he could never manage to win a race, but it must have been so frustrating for him) And it might surprise you to hear that this person was no novice to mario kart and competed against me tons of times before in the older titles.
Heavy Characters Are Overpowered
Because breaking away from the rest of the participants of the race is so important to winning, heavy characters are gifted with a pronounced advantage. They have inherently higher speed than medium and light characters. I strictly play Yoshi, a medium weight character, and no matter what wheels or car I pick my speed stat will be mediocre at best. It's even worse for light characters, who must console themselves with acceleration, which will surely help them the millions of times they will get hit per race because they cannot build up enough speed to break away from other players. Again, anecdotally, I win noticeably more on the rare occasions I opt for Rosalina (a heavy character) instead of Yoshi. She has higher speed, she goes faster, she can build up a sizable distance from other players, she doesn't get hit as much.
Tracks Are Wide As Shit
This is one of the biggest flaws of MK8. Every track in this game has the width of a god damn highway. It is an enormous contributing factor to the tracks all feeling bland and boring. It's really noticeable when you play retro tracks like peach's castle or yoshi's circuit (dlc track) and they are so much wider than they originally were, ruining the tightly designed nature of them and sapping the fun they elicit as an outcome. According to the developers, the tracks were given increased width because it needed to accommodate the space needed for 12 players racing simultaneously. I vehemently disagree with this design decision. During a race, you will never see 12 players racing side by side to warrant the need for all that additional room. Gee, the tracks in MKWii, which introduced 12 player racing, were normal sized and I never noticed a problem with space in between all the fun I was having. How did MKWii manage to do it?! Truly an answer in search of a problem.
The Roster Is Wack
Its packed with baby characters, metal reskins, and koopalings! None of these characters are particularly interesting or feel like their own original concept. They are a tremendous wasted opportunity. Let's look at all the beloved characters from previous MK games that didn't make the cut so these abominations could be included (shout out to honey queen who I forgot about while photoshopping):
Melt Pink gold Peach for scrap.
Battle Mode Still Sucks
Its been 12 and a half years since the last console mario kart with a battle mode that didn't suck. MKWii removed balloon limits in favor a stupid scoring system. MK8 brought hope back by reinstating the balloon limit system, so you couldn't just die over and over online, but promptly squandered it by lazily copy pasting entire race tracks as battle fields.
As Mario Kart 64, Double Dash, DS and 7 can all attest, the foundation of a fun battle mode are compact arenas to do battle in. By going the quick and easy route, Nintendo dropped the ball yet again with battle mode, leaving fans to play the older games and wait 5 more years to see if they will fuck it up again next time.
You Can't Knock Players Off Track Anymore
I know there will be disagreements on this one, and I can see why they did this. Having the lakitu instantly swoop in and bring your car right back onto the track minimizes downtime, and eases the burden of punishment for sloppy racing on the less skilled. Acknowledging these reasons, from the standpoint of fun I must give a full throated condemnation of this change. Some of the most fun moments I have ever had in local multiplayer were laughing riotously at friends who sailed over cliffs and careened down mountains on the final lap, as they were winning. Double Dash players, I'm talking to you now.
Magical moments like these will never happen in Mario Kart 8. Even if it scars the player its happening to, its a part of what makes mario kart special, and I will not stand to see this removed. At the very least, Nintendo could give us the option in a settings menu to disable fast lakitu recovery in local multiplayer.
In Conclusion: The Game Fails On All Fronts
The fans of this game will try to defend it by saying the graphics are amazing, that there is so much content, that they thought the tracks were great, and that I suck at it and I'm bitter.The graphics are great, aliasing problems aside, that is the one thing for which I cannot fault it. To this day I am wowed by MK8's visuals. There is a lot of content; but dlc that costs money should not be a viable defense for the base game. The tracks were not great and compared to the majesty of past ones like wario colosseum, koopa cape, wuhu Island, dk mountain, and tons more, they are PATHETIC. Compare bowser's castle and rainbow road to the ones that came before it, or don't because there is no comparison. The tracks in MK8, for the most part, unequivocally and irrefutably suck. As to whether I suck, saying it might comfort you if you disagree with me, and I have no evidence to the contrary except my word that I have been playing these games for well over a decade now and I feel quite proficient at them, having earned two star rank in Mario Kart Wii, and 1 star rank in mario karts 7 and 8. This game is the worst 3d mario kart because MK64 has unquestionably the best battle mode, Double Dash debatably has the best racing and the second best battle mode along with additional battle modes no other game has like shine thief and bomb battle, MKWii has perhaps the best collection of tracks in any mario kart game, and DS and 7 both have excellent tracks, better battle modes, and more fun and balanced racing instead of the high speed getaways of higher place players and awful item changes in 8. MK8 can at times be fun, but in light of its predecessors it is an unworthy successor.
That is all I have to say, here is a pic of daisy cruiser in MK8.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Is there a sickness going around? I mean, how can you both agree and provide examples that are just not true?
If you suck at item management you're dead in MK8. You're just plain old wrong.^^
To you, Is item management holding a green shell behind you while in first place?
Retromelon
Member
Can't you get banned for going into threads and asking for them to be closed while having nothing to add to the conversation? Just because you don't like my opinion, I should be silenced? Sad!
MyleMan1010
Member
I have to agree with what most folks are saying here. MK8 is amazing. I understand the complaints about the roster and battle mode, but the gameplay has never been better. Well, Double Dash does offer something special there. But I would say MK8 is the best or second best Mario Kart game to date.
Simbabbad
Member
OP is hyperbolic and Mario Kart 8 is the best in the series, but I agree with most of his points. Frankly, it puzzles me the game gets this much praise when most of the series issues are still there, or made even worse:
- The driving is still too shallow, like it is for every Mario Kart after Super Mario Kart. The physics and controls feel good, probably the best of the 3D games, but once you understand the basics, it's way too easy, and you're on autopilot the whole time. Having to slow down before a turn, counterdrift or other mechanics that are in F-Zero for example would make it less dull.
- Many of the pre-DLC tracks are really dull.
- The move to 12 players is problematic and is the worst thing that happened in the series. Tracks are WAY too big and wide because of this, and the already busted item system is made even worse...
- ... because the same old problem is there: not only the driving is dull, but items make it all random anyway, and online made that worse. Double Dash was tedious, but at least it was less chaotic/random thanks to only 8 players being there, and there was some skill involved with items since you could for example dodge red shells. To accommodate for online and allow better synchronization, you can't do that any more: no way to dodge a red shell, and those things even fly now. The lack of basically any skill or even gameplay mechanics tied to items make them boring, and the lack of balance ruins any sort of competition: if you're lucky you can quickly get ahead first and the chaos will be behind you and you'll be nearly alone the whole race, or if you're unlucky you'll get hit after hit without possibility to avoid them. The worst is the lighting, which can screw you completely randomly without warning. It's all as fun as Mario Party with strangers online.
The appalling thing is, it doesn't even make casuals have fun. All the people I know who had fun with Mario Kart Wii don't have fun in Mario Kart 8, items don't even help them at all, it just angers everybody. Kirby Air Ride made a much better job at being accessible, or even Smash Bros. thanks to the handicap system.
- I don't understand why Mario Kart 8 wasn't bashed for its incredibly minimalistic online options compared to Mario Kart Wii. In MKW there were online competitions, bosses, you could watch tons of statistics very easily worlwide or vs. your friends, send ghosts to each others, there was the ghost race mode... MK8 doesn't have any of that, it even obliges you to use Miiverse to send ghosts online... WTF?!
- Obviously, battle mode is inexcusable.
- I don't understand why there aren't different item categories online. Not the lame clubs they implemented, but very clear default categories like regional/worldwide, with "no item", "skill items only" (no red shells, only items where you have to aim), etc.
Yes, the game looks great, art style is great, and there are tons of spectacular sceneries. But gameplay-wise? It's the same old problems, none of them solved. If I hadn't bought it digitally, I would have sold my copy, I regret buying it.
- The driving is still too shallow, like it is for every Mario Kart after Super Mario Kart. The physics and controls feel good, probably the best of the 3D games, but once you understand the basics, it's way too easy, and you're on autopilot the whole time. Having to slow down before a turn, counterdrift or other mechanics that are in F-Zero for example would make it less dull.
- Many of the pre-DLC tracks are really dull.
- The move to 12 players is problematic and is the worst thing that happened in the series. Tracks are WAY too big and wide because of this, and the already busted item system is made even worse...
- ... because the same old problem is there: not only the driving is dull, but items make it all random anyway, and online made that worse. Double Dash was tedious, but at least it was less chaotic/random thanks to only 8 players being there, and there was some skill involved with items since you could for example dodge red shells. To accommodate for online and allow better synchronization, you can't do that any more: no way to dodge a red shell, and those things even fly now. The lack of basically any skill or even gameplay mechanics tied to items make them boring, and the lack of balance ruins any sort of competition: if you're lucky you can quickly get ahead first and the chaos will be behind you and you'll be nearly alone the whole race, or if you're unlucky you'll get hit after hit without possibility to avoid them. The worst is the lighting, which can screw you completely randomly without warning. It's all as fun as Mario Party with strangers online.
The appalling thing is, it doesn't even make casuals have fun. All the people I know who had fun with Mario Kart Wii don't have fun in Mario Kart 8, items don't even help them at all, it just angers everybody. Kirby Air Ride made a much better job at being accessible, or even Smash Bros. thanks to the handicap system.
- I don't understand why Mario Kart 8 wasn't bashed for its incredibly minimalistic online options compared to Mario Kart Wii. In MKW there were online competitions, bosses, you could watch tons of statistics very easily worlwide or vs. your friends, send ghosts to each others, there was the ghost race mode... MK8 doesn't have any of that, it even obliges you to use Miiverse to send ghosts online... WTF?!
- Obviously, battle mode is inexcusable.
- I don't understand why there aren't different item categories online. Not the lame clubs they implemented, but very clear default categories like regional/worldwide, with "no item", "skill items only" (no red shells, only items where you have to aim), etc.
Yes, the game looks great, art style is great, and there are tons of spectacular sceneries. But gameplay-wise? It's the same old problems, none of them solved. If I hadn't bought it digitally, I would have sold my copy, I regret buying it.
The way it's implemented, it's totally useless. It's impossible to find a game with actual people and start an actual race.
KenzinFive
Member
Even if it's not someone's favorite, I think the addition of being able to drive upside down and on walls is an awesome game-changer for the series.
Yes, Battle Mode sucks but I fail to see how MK8 is the worst Mario Kart.
Yes, Battle Mode sucks but I fail to see how MK8 is the worst Mario Kart.
TheMoon
Member
No, it's knowing when to save a shroom/star for a specific shortcut, staying behind to increase chances of boost items, not fucking yourself up with a bob-omb, saving a Bullet Bill for the best possible spot, using a boomerang to destroy someone's shells ...
You know, actual item management. Which is in this game. And deep as fuck
dragonzdogma
Member
I haven't played MK8
Disappointed that you didn't elaborate in why you disagree (Being first post and all)
If it's true what the OP is saying , the battle mode sucks for copy and pasting an entire track, instead of designing battle stages like the N64 version did.
Well, I guess I would have to play it for myself .
Edit:
Also
Why is the OP wrong,
I would love to know what the counter arguments are.
LOL I heard MK8 was 23 bucks at best buy and I was just to buy earlier today.
Simbabbad
Member
You can't be serious. Even Double Dash was better in this department.You know, actual item management. Which is in this game. And deep as fuck
stan423321
Member
Most Of The Tracks Are Boring - I sort of see this but it's arguably less of a problem than what happened to Smash Wii U with a bunch of stages being absolutely boring and the rest being absolutely crazy. And hey, they're still better than 2D Mario Karts. Yes I said that.
The Gameplay Is Conservative As Fuck - Again, I don't see this as much of a problem. 3D in MK64, the parts in MK7... were a sorta obvious addition. What would satisfy you here? 32 players? 12 players locally? MORE vehicle modes (sleighs? motorboats? pogo sticks?)? Coin powered character special moves?
The Mario Kart 8 Caste System (AKA Items have been RUINED) - Okay, that's sort of interesting. It's a case of game pandering to competitive players (I started winning? Then now you better get twice as better you silly loser). But besides, a huge part of the mess here is that they disabled item holding which IMHO completely screwed up the whole dynamic of existing items. I wonder how late in the whole dev process this happened. Hopefully they will rebalance it the other way in the next instalment.
Heavy Characters Are Overpowered - Something like this definitely was the case in MKWii too. It's a minor issue overall unless you don't decide your favorites by the gameplay.
Tracks Are Wide As Shit - Seems like someone really, really wanted to reduce the impact of items, while you really, really don't like that happening. Makes sense.
The Roster Is Wack - Partially true. Koopalings are alright. Pink Gold Peach is intentional trolling.
Battle Mode Still Sucks - True.
You Can't Knock Players Off Track Anymore - True, but this arguably partially counterbalances the fact that items aren't as useful. Also, this really was NOT fun at all.
The Gameplay Is Conservative As Fuck - Again, I don't see this as much of a problem. 3D in MK64, the parts in MK7... were a sorta obvious addition. What would satisfy you here? 32 players? 12 players locally? MORE vehicle modes (sleighs? motorboats? pogo sticks?)? Coin powered character special moves?
The Mario Kart 8 Caste System (AKA Items have been RUINED) - Okay, that's sort of interesting. It's a case of game pandering to competitive players (I started winning? Then now you better get twice as better you silly loser). But besides, a huge part of the mess here is that they disabled item holding which IMHO completely screwed up the whole dynamic of existing items. I wonder how late in the whole dev process this happened. Hopefully they will rebalance it the other way in the next instalment.
Heavy Characters Are Overpowered - Something like this definitely was the case in MKWii too. It's a minor issue overall unless you don't decide your favorites by the gameplay.
Tracks Are Wide As Shit - Seems like someone really, really wanted to reduce the impact of items, while you really, really don't like that happening. Makes sense.
The Roster Is Wack - Partially true. Koopalings are alright. Pink Gold Peach is intentional trolling.
Battle Mode Still Sucks - True.
You Can't Knock Players Off Track Anymore - True, but this arguably partially counterbalances the fact that items aren't as useful. Also, this really was NOT fun at all.
Let's see what is the first part of my post that reveals that I did not play MK8.
Everything you asked for here is in the game, although slowing down is only in 200cc. And lol about the gameplay being the same. The driving model is fine tuned to be the best driving experience in Mario kart. And the items have been well tuned, as I've gotten and seen blue shells at 2nd place. You can't honestly go from MKWii to this and say they feel the same, because they don't.
Retromelon
Member
Loled so much at this. Dark souls kart sounds awesome
PreyingShark
Member
MK8 went from my least favorite to favorite 3d Mario kart once 200cc came out tbh