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[fvng]

Most of the resistance was probably due to certain egos not wanting to give up the design of the console to a westerner.

I think they got over that hump a long time ago since Cerny has been a Sony contributor for quite some time.

 

[RibbedHero]

x86 is too complex? ....What?

 

[szaromir]

Why did they think that x86 was too complex for games if that's what PC games run on?

I think it means it's complex in manufacturing/has extra features that would perhaps not be seen as necessary in a games console. My guess anyway.

 

[Audible Phonetics]

I really wonder what the other options on the table were.

 

[R-User!]

Hilarious.

 

[pizza dog]

But how many pixels were in the slide decks he presented? How many transistors in the machines he used to make the decks?

 

[HypnoDarkrai]

15 presentations
November 15 2013

Is what I first thought it. I admire his persistence.

 

[RedAssedApe]

This is a man with a vision.

 

[Skeff]

Vintage Cerny!

x86 is good, it is a standard tat can hopefully remain throughout multiple generations and give us the Backward Compatibility we deserve.

 

[Cat Party]

Sounds like he saved Sony from itself.

 

[daveo42]

It looks so disturbing...where's his neck?

 

[tokkun]

I find that a bit puzzling too. What else is there they could've used that doesn't cost insane amounts of money in this day and age? We all know how Sony ended up with making a custom chip like Cell (even if it wasn't a Sony-only thing). What does IBM offer that isn't POWER (unless they can scale it down) and fits in a console besides the Wii U's CPU? I am honestly curious.

Also what is so surprising about x86? The Xbox basically used a Pentium III.

They could have used ARM. And in retrospect, that may have been a wiser move.

 

[Zok310]

This will only matter if next gen games cost less to develop than current gen, if Sony accomplish that then Cerny should be considered a god.

 

[BeauRoger]

In Lord Cerny we trust.

 

[Kickz]

Should've spent some of that time on his game

 

[Instigator]

Should've spent some of that time on his game

Thread shitting!

















Nah, you're right.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

What are people's problem with Knack? Can't they recognize when a game is not geared towards them?

 

[Madao]

Nice, I guess Reggie didn't do enough presentations then.

he's more useless than the box where i keep my old unused shoes.

Nintendo really needs someone like this guy to convince the blockheads at japan to use powerful and cheap tech.

 

[diehard]

This is a man with a vision.

.. to use the most popular architecture there is?

correct decision absolutely.

vision? lol no

 

[PureGone]

Isnt Xbox One also x86?

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

They could have used ARM. And in retrospect, that may have been a wiser move.

I don't think there are ARM cores that as fast as the AMD ones yet.

And that also doesn't allow for one of the bigger advantages of X86: They could get a gpu on die, fromt he same maker.

They did go arm for the Vita though, and that was smart. Let them make easy use of mobile graphics libraries and economies of scale versus a custom chip, as well as have a clear upgrade path for future generations of Vita.

 

[OldRoutes]

What are people's problem with Knack? Can't they recognize when a game is not geared towards them?

I feel significant resources have been put towards a title that appeal so little to the early adopters...

 

[Confused101]

Best thing I've seen all day.

 

[Celestial Mortal]

 

[Instigator]

I feel significant resources have been put towards a title that appeal so little to the early adopters...

The issue is not that it's platformer, but rather that it looks like an utterly boring example of a platformer.

 

[Lesiroth]

What was the alternative though? Seeing how Sony and MS ended up with x86 (and APUs from the same vendor), it seems like they both came to the conclusion PowerPC was a dead-end in one or more factors.

A supercharged Cell that allowed for BC would've been pretty cool though.

 

[Sporran]

MS are doing exactly the same thing, not really sure what's so noteworthy about this.

You know the deal. New news, new thread.

 

[DBT85]

I feel significant resources have been put towards a title that appeal so little to the early adopters...

Could you explain what you mean by significant resources?

 

[Skeff]

I'm reasonably confident the resources put into Knack will have been worth it purely on the basis that the system architect gets direct feedback on the console design and the use of GPGPU physics systems for Knacks body will be usable for all Sony teams, I'm pretty sure the Budget for Knack is very low and is mainly for Developer feedback.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Sounds like he saved Sony from itself.

.

Sony would be pretty boned right now without him.

 

[OmahaG8]

I'm reasonably confident the resources put into Knack will have been worth it purely on the basis that the system architect gets direct feedback on the console design and the use of GPGPU physics systems for Knacks body will be usable for all Sony teams, I'm pretty sure the Budget for Knack is very low and is mainly for Developer feedback.

This.. this makes incredibly good sense to me.

 

[Nachtmaer]

They could have used ARM. And in retrospect, that may have been a wiser move.

Yeah, perhaps. However, isn't the performance gap between ARM and x86 still relatively big? Then you'd also need a GPU and try to fit everything into one chip for convenience's sake.

I guess it's more about AMD being able to offer them everything they need than trying to go with the most efficient design, performance and cost-wise. Even when it comes to that, it seems like they did a pretty decent job.

 

[OldRoutes]

Could you explain what you mean by significant resources?

Well... an entire dev team, most likely a few dozen of people. I'm sure these have been managed wisely, and they know what they're doing.

I'm just struggling to find any kind of excitement toward this project when we could have gotten, with no guarantees for sure, something else that might've been more interesting.

It's all very selfish.

Keep in mind I'm not hating on the game, I'm just not pretending it's the next Mario 64.

 

[kaching]

Yeah I want to like the guy when he's talkin about hardware and systems design, but once he starts championing Knack it sort of undermines the rest for me. What a boring shitty lookin game.

His championing of the game has always been modest. He's never tried to oversell it. The problem, as ever, is mostly in the way the audience here tries to assign some kind of high significance to the game just because it was the first PS4 game unveiled.

If the game is not to your tastes, you don't have to keep paying attention to it any more than you would any other game that doesn't interest you.

I'm just not pretending it's the next Mario 64.

Who is?

 

[Caronte]

MS are doing exactly the same thing, not really sure what's so noteworthy about this.

I don't think that's a coincidence. Probably both companies knew what the other was working on.

I'm reasonably confident the resources put into Knack will have been worth it purely on the basis that the system architect gets direct feedback on the console design and the use of GPGPU physics systems for Knacks body will be usable for all Sony teams, I'm pretty sure the Budget for Knack is very low and is mainly for Developer feedback.

And Cerny has said multiple times that Knack is a small title.

Keep in mind I'm not hating on the game, I'm just not pretending it's the next Mario 64.

No one is pretending that. Not even Cerny.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

I'm reasonably confident the resources put into Knack will have been worth it purely on the basis that the system architect gets direct feedback on the console design and the use of GPGPU physics systems for Knacks body will be usable for all Sony teams, I'm pretty sure the Budget for Knack is very low and is mainly for Developer feedback.

To me, this sounds about right. Knack is, much like other early games, something of a showcase title for some particular aspect of the system.

The end game is, I dunno, good, but not amazing, at least not yet. Very difficult for me to judge it so far with as little as we have seen. I can see some things I really like, and some that seem iffy.

 

[OldRoutes]

Who is?

No one! It's just the implication of being a launch title that is also a platformer.

Anyway, is this derailing the thread? Sorry about that!

 

[Jonboy]

Perfection!

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Keep in mind I'm not hating on the game, I'm just not pretending it's the next Mario 64.

Cerny has gone on record to say that Knack is the type of game that's "a second purchase for the PS4" not a flagship title. He's been very modest about the scope of this game in particular, because he knows what people expect from someone with his pedigree.

 

[Cryoflar3]

love the swagger, but that is kinda horrifying.

 

[lyrick]

I hope one of them was him bringing in an original Xbox and plopping it on the conference table.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I imagine this is how he walked in for every presentation.
Cerny is nothing but good for Sony. Thankfully they're really listening to him now.

 

[NoirVisage]

MS are doing exactly the same thing, not really sure what's so noteworthy about this.

you're trying too hard to appear unbiased, Its news to me and I'm glad they went with Cerny , otherwise things may have been different.

 

[H_Prestige]

Look, at the end of the day Sony went with AMD because what they were offering was ready made, super cheap, and had good performance. Ditto for MS. This has nothing to do with x86 vs PPC.

 

[jediyoshi]

MS are doing exactly the same thing, not really sure what's so noteworthy about this.

Because they weren't going to. How are those goggles treating you?

 

[tokkun]

I don't think there are ARM cores that as fast as the AMD ones yet.

And that also doesn't allow for one of the bigger advantages of X86: They could get a gpu on die, fromt he same maker.

They did go arm for the Vita though, and that was smart. Let them make easy use of mobile graphics libraries and economies of scale versus a custom chip, as well as have a clear upgrade path for future generations of Vita.

Yeah, perhaps. However, isn't the performance gap between ARM and x86 still relatively big? Then you'd also need a GPU and try to fit everything into one chip for convenience's sake.

I guess it's more about AMD being able to offer them everything they need than trying to go with the most efficient design, performance and cost-wise. Even when it comes to that, it seems like they did a pretty decent job.

There are companies that make their own ARM CPU and GPU - Nvidia, Qualcomm, and Samsung all do. As far as x86 being inherently better performance than ARM, that is a myth that has persisted due to ARM CPUs being consistently designed at lower power budgets. If you compare Intel's mobile offerings with the latest ARM designs, they are pretty competitive. It's true that Sony would have needed to convince someone to make a higher TDP ARM chip, and maybe Sony just doesn't have the resources for that these days.

Here are the advantages of choosing ARM:
1. Lots of vendors available. If you want an x86 SoC, you are stuck deciding between Intel and AMD (and possibly only Intel by the time the next generation comes around as AMD seems to be shifting towards ARM development).
2. Sony could make their own ARM CPU if they wanted to. That's not true with x86's licensing. This may be an issue in the future with backwards compatibility on new platforms.
3. It would allow easier cross system compatibility between PS4, Vita, and Sony's Xperia phones.
4. ARM-based platforms are rapidly gaining in marketshare due to large sales of tablets and smartphones. It may overtake x86 as the most popular platform for games.

 

[NotMyRealName]

What are the benefits of x86 again? Better power consumption?

 

[tinfoilhatman]

Just glad they did, hopefully this means more\better PC<>PS4<>X1 ports and less development costs.

 

[Durante]

4. ARM-based platforms are rapidly gaining in marketshare due to large sales of tablets and smartphones. It may overtake x86 as the most popular platform for games.

I agree with your other points, but does the ISA really matter in any way for the more mainstream tablet/smartphone game market?

 

[idlewild_]

Funny so much work had to go into convincing people to use the most popular architectures of today.

Well... an entire dev team, most likely a few dozen of people. I'm sure these have been managed wisely, and they know what they're doing.

Not so sure, have you seen SCEJ's output this gen?