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[Jezbollah]

He’s the antichrist and wants us all dead don’t you know. Lefties actually ducking believe that too.

Indeed. Of course, hardly anyone has mentiond that Sir Kier Starmer has been sending his kids to school the entire time. I wonder why that is?

 

[Majukun]

Makes me think of this which I came across the other day:

except a fence is not scientifically certified to stop mosquitoes, but several mask do with various degrees of efficiency in both protecting you or the others.

also, masks are not to stop the virus itself, but the droplets sneezed out of infected people which contain it

 

[Nymphae]

 

[Majukun]

Did Japan Just Beat the Virus Without Lockdowns or Mass Testing?

to put things in order, the strange case of japan is relative to the number of death, not cases, for the simple reson that since they barely tested anyone, they were left only with the self evident cases, that we already know are the relative minority.

like the article said, there are a myriad of possible reasons why their mortality is so low, same way why germany ended up with so few deaths compared to places like spain or the uk.

there are some i can think on the top of my head,

1) being an island surely help (i come from an island in Italy and we had relatively few cases and deaths compared to other less isolated zones)
2) in asia and japan in particular the culture of wearing masks was already there
3) japan's culture (but i'm no expert here) seems a little colder than other places, which could have helped with mantaining social distancing,
4) again not an expert on japanese culture, but they seem more inclined to follow rules for the greater good, although this mentality is wearing off in new generations
5) low levels of obesity, a possible deciding factor for the scientists, is also possibly a cause together with the rest.
6) japan, has started very early isolating clusters of infected when they were still small, much like germany did.
7) they still did a lot of tracking, just analog instead of digital, but in many countries it would not be possible, especially the US


the article is really interesting and really goes in depth on the various reason for this effective response, and it's a shame that the title kind of undermine the entire message, with many people that will probably just read the title and say "see? we could have just done nothing" (not specifically talking about you)

 

[The Scrivener]

"They were not simply names on a list."

Goes ahead and presents a simple list of names.

Take that, Trump!

So many really old people on the list. Why not just put "retired" instead...?

 

[EviLore]

 

[Majukun]

"They were not simply names on a list."

Goes ahead and presents a simple list of names.

Take that, Trump!

So many really old people on the list. Why not just put "retired" instead...?

can't understand why many people are still on about the age thing

yes the majority of victims are old people..but that's because that's the kind of people that STILL DIE despite treatment.
under them there's a lot of other people that still survive but after 2 to 4 weeks of ICu treatment, that from start is not a joke



and second would have not been able to receive ICU treatment if you left the virus run rampant because there's a finite amount of ICu bed in any given country/state.

 

[segasonic]

i mean, it's carbon dioxide. when we breathe normally, we exhale it. when we wear a mask, we just breathe it back in. it's not normal.

it's almost suffocation, in a way. you are getting less fresh air and that has to be doing something to your lungs, your circulatory system, your brain even. i don't have a car so i walk, but i don't wear a mask when i walk, cos i tried it and it made me dizzy.

You breathe back in the amount that is between your mask and your skin, which is like 50ml. If you want to apply critical thinking that‘s fine, but don‘t do it like a six year old kid

 

[pLow7]

can't understand why many people are still on about the age thing

yes the majority of victims are old people..but that's because that's the kind of people that STILL DIE despite treatment.
under them there's a lot of other people that still survive but after 2 to 4 weeks of ICu treatment, that from start is not a joke



and second would have not been able to receive ICU treatment if you left the virus run rampant because there's a finite amount of ICu bed in any given country/state.

Yeah like, why are we even treating old people? Why do old people get chemo? They're old lmao.

I swear it looks like many of the people here don't have grandparents or don't know what it means to loose one.

 

[hariseldon]

Some here are deliberately misunderstanding the age thing to make a point or they’re retarded. If you are one of them, please let me know which.

I’ll explain it like you’re retarded as the other option makes explanations pointless.

The lockdown is killing the economy which will kill a large number of people through poverty. The government can only do so much and the debt racked up comes with a cost to be paid back either through austerity or inflation, both of which will impact the poorest and most vulnerable in society and will cause deaths.

Outside the 70+ group the death rate is VERY low. The serious sickness rate is pretty low too, though with the media seeking out every single possible example it doesn’t look that way. Nobody here is saying let it kill the old however, the point is more that the young can cope just fine.

A logical outcome of those two things is that we should shield the elderly until this thing runs its course and open up the economy for everyone else to save lives. Let the country build up herd immunity.

As an aside, masks will do a decent job of preventing health services from being overwhelmed and most western countries have successfully built up extra capacity which makes that less of an issue anyway.

Shielding the elderly is tricky where they’re relied upon for childcare but the government can fund free childcare for families in such situations a hell of a lot cheaper than destroying the economy.

 

[The Scrivener]

Some here are deliberately misunderstanding the age thing to make a point or they’re retarded. If you are one of them, please let me know which.

I’ll explain it like you’re retarded as the other option makes explanations pointless.

The lockdown is killing the economy which will kill a large number of people through poverty. The government can only do so much and the debt racked up comes with a cost to be paid back either through austerity or inflation, both of which will impact the poorest and most vulnerable in society and will cause deaths.

Outside the 70+ group the death rate is VERY low. The serious sickness rate is pretty low too, though with the media seeking out every single possible example it doesn’t look that way. Nobody here is saying let it kill the old however, the point is more that the young can cope just fine.

A logical outcome of those two things is that we should shield the elderly until this thing runs its course and open up the economy for everyone else to save lives. Let the country build up herd immunity.

As an aside, masks will do a decent job of preventing health services from being overwhelmed and most western countries have successfully built up extra capacity which makes that less of an issue anyway.

Shielding the elderly is tricky where they’re relied upon for childcare but the government can fund free childcare for families in such situations a hell of a lot cheaper than destroying the economy.

Also, it's funny how every time the age thing comes up, we're presented with videos of survivors.

"Look! This guy has tattoos and is on Instagram and he got thinner! We're all gonna die!"

 

[The Scrivener]

Yeah like, why are we even treating old people? Why do old people get chemo? They're old lmao.

I swear it looks like many of the people here don't have grandparents or don't know what it means to loose one.

It's a cool list to read, like on the right there's a WWII Polish fighter pilot, 97, and he's the last to die of his kind. Sad times, for sure.

There's also that 27 year old car crash murder victim who died of COIVD-19 in 6th place on the list. Pretty cool too.

My grandad watched his mate's head get blown off in the Suez Canal war, and I saw my gran for the last time in hospital a few year's ago. Life sucks. Don't close the world for it.

 

[Majukun]

Some here are deliberately misunderstanding the age thing to make a point or they’re retarded. If you are one of them, please let me know which.

I’ll explain it like you’re retarded as the other option makes explanations pointless.

The lockdown is killing the economy which will kill a large number of people through poverty. The government can only do so much and the debt racked up comes with a cost to be paid back either through austerity or inflation, both of which will impact the poorest and most vulnerable in society and will cause deaths.

Outside the 70+ group the death rate is VERY low. The serious sickness rate is pretty low too, though with the media seeking out every single possible example it doesn’t look that way. Nobody here is saying let it kill the old however, the point is more that the young can cope just fine.

A logical outcome of those two things is that we should shield the elderly until this thing runs its course and open up the economy for everyone else to save lives. Let the country build up herd immunity.

As an aside, masks will do a decent job of preventing health services from being overwhelmed and most western countries have successfully built up extra capacity which makes that less of an issue anyway.

Shielding the elderly is tricky where they’re relied upon for childcare but the government can fund free childcare for families in such situations a hell of a lot cheaper than destroying the economy.

you are very quick to call people retarded but you are STILL missing the entire point.

Do you know why the death rate of people under 70 is low?
Is it because they don't ever get badly effected by corona virus? No.
It's because they survive the treatment (again, 2 to 4 weeks of ICU treatment) long enough to clear their bodies of the virus.

Now, what happens if you shield the elderly and let the youngsters go on with their lives?
A lot of youngsters get infected, the number of them that needs ICu treatment gets high, your hospitals cannot give icu treatment to everyone anymore, and now young people start dying too because they don't have access to the treatment they need.

Why do you think the focus of every single country in the world until now it has been to flatten the curve?

And you know the funny thing? if we go with your plan, a lot of people die, a lot of people have to take huge sick leaves from their jobs and the economy STILL tanks.

 

[Majukun]

Also, it's funny how every time the age thing comes up, we're presented with videos of survivors.

"Look! This guy has tattoos and is on instagram and he got thinner! We're all gonna die!"

i assume you can't read italian.
is not about him being thinner, but him getting delibilitating polmunary damage too.

that's another thing that many people miss about "surviving" corona virus

 

[The Scrivener]

i assume you can't read italian.
is not about him being thinner, but him getting delibilitating polmunary damage too.

that's another thing that many people miss about "surviving" corona virus

My Italian stretches about as far as Mario & Luigi, sorry.

Poor guy though. Looks like he has a positive mindset though, which will help him in life I guess.

 

[diffusionx]

you are very quick to call people retarded but you are STILL missing the entire point.

Do you know why the death rate of people under 70 is low?
Is it because they don't ever get badly effected by corona virus? No.
It's because they survive the treatment (again, 2 to 4 weeks of ICU treatment) long enough to clear their bodies of the virus.

Do you think every single person who gets COVID-19 ends up in the ICU and needs 2-4 weeks of treatment? The death rate is low because it's not dangerous for healthy people under 70. By the CDC's estimate, 35% of people show NO symptoms whatsoever. Showing no symptoms is pretty much the exact definition of "not badly affected."

Many, many people who do have symptoms fight it off like the flu or any other illness. Antibody testing in NY is showing that ~20% of people have antibodies. That is over 2 million people in NYC alone, and 2 million people have not been in the ICU I promise you. Obviously a very small amount of younger, healthy people get very sick and die, but again, same shit happens with the flu, it's just not treated like front page news when it does.

35% of COVID-19 patients are asymptomatic, CDC says

A new study from the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention said about 35% of COVID-19 patients are asymptomatic.

www.boston25news.com

 

[pLow7]

you are very quick to call people retarded but you are STILL missing the entire point.

Do you know why the death rate of people under 70 is low?
Is it because they don't ever get badly effected by corona virus? No.
It's because they survive the treatment (again, 2 to 4 weeks of ICU treatment) long enough to clear their bodies of the virus.

Now, what happens if you shield the elderly and let the youngsters go on with their lives?
A lot of youngsters get infected, the number of them that needs ICu treatment gets high, your hospitals cannot give icu treatment to everyone anymore, and now young people start dying too because they don't have access to the treatment they need.

Why do you think the focus of every single country in the world until now it has been to flatten the curve?

And you know the funny thing? if we go with your plan, a lot of people die, a lot of people have to take huge sick leaves from their jobs and the economy STILL tanks.

No dude, we are the retarded because we don't get it. He gets it, he and some other dudes here are the only sane persons, all others are retarded, including 95% of the government bodies.

so to you @hariseldon i'm not calling you retarded, since i'm not a piece of shit, i can tell you what's up.

Basically only old people die, yes. But young people get sick too. Very sick, sick to a point where you can't work. Let the virus free and you don't need to close things down to prevent the virus, but you have to close them because majority of your workers are sick.
You want to protect the elderlies and you have no fuckin clue how, am i right? Who cares for these elderlies? What about Nurses? What about Doctors?

I still don't get it in my head why you think you are so brilliant that you got the Solution to this. Do you really think 95% of the gov want to see their economies tank? DO you really think every fuckin country wouldn't like to reopen asap? Why do you think they don't? Surely because there's retarded people ruing every country in the world right? Man, Gaffers would make amazing presidents. The audacity from some people here thinking they're so much smarter than people that studied shit like this for years is mind boggling.

And you know the funny thing? if we go with your plan, a lot of people die, a lot of people have to take huge sick leaves from their jobs and the economy STILL tanks.

Yeah the so called "wonderland" Sweden, has seen their economy tank and many people dying. They're posting the same number of cases as germany ( Germany has only about 9 Times Swedens population) and there is no sign of that shit really slowing down. Meanwhile germany reopened when things got to a "managable" state, with sub 1000 cases a day. Italy, Spain and France all went to "Phase 2" when they reached really low numbers and for now it seems it payed off. People still don't get that reopening is possible, but reopening too fast like some here are suggesting is "retarded"-

 

[Majukun]

Do you think every single person who gets COVID-19 ends up in the ICU and needs 2-4 weeks of treatment?

no, never said it, but a small percent of a really huge number is still a huge number...from the studies i read this corona virus is considered more contagious than the seasonal flu. Culdn't find the r0 for the normal seasonal flu, but the h1n1 had around half the contagion rate this virus has.
consider how many dozens of million of people get the flu every year, and made the calculations from there, you are still looking at millions of people in need of an icu bed just for the worst cases .

The death rate is low because it's not dangerous for healthy people under 70. By the CDC's estimate, 35% of people show NO symptoms whatsoever. Showing no symptoms is pretty much the exact definition of "not badly affected."

that's just not true. You are treating the desease like if you are under 70 you get the cold and over 70 you die, which is not true, of course the virus has an higher chance of becoming lethal on immunocompromised individuals, like every virus does, but again, you are just looking at the death rate not realizing that the death rate for younger people is low because they survive the treatment, not because it doesn't get bad ever, without treatment available for everyone that number would rise too.

hell, in spain in the highest period they were taking off respirators old people, can you guess who they were giving it to? Yup, younger, more fit and likely to survive people that STILL NEEDED ICU.

Many, many people who do have symptoms fight it off like the flu or any other illness. Antibody testing in NY is showing that ~20% of people have antibodies. That is over 2 million people in NYC alone, and 2 million people have not been in the ICU I promise you. Obviously a very small amount of younger, healthy people get very sick and die, but again, same shit happens with the flu, it's just not treated like front page news when it does.

35% of COVID-19 patients are asymptomatic, CDC says

A new study from the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention said about 35% of COVID-19 patients are asymptomatic.

www.boston25news.com

once again, never said that every covid affected person goes into icu, thank god, but it doesn't take much to overwhelm the hospital system, because no hospital system is designed to give icu treatment to all those people at once[/quote]

 

[diffusionx]

No, the death rate is low for people under 70 because it does not affect them as much. Bottom line, period. It is true that they have a greater chance of surviving the treatment IF they need the treatment, but the far more relevant factor is that not as many of them need treatment. Again, for a lot of people, they show no symptoms, and for a lot more, it’s an illness they get over. This is just an objective fact.

Most research is indicating that this virus was circulating in this country as early as October or November, and definitely in January or February. We had no lockdowns and there’s no way we got to millions of COVID-19 cases in NY without significant spread pre-lockdown. We didn’t see ICUs getting overwhelmed in February.

I will also point out that you can go back to 2018 and find articles about hospitals being overwhelmed with flu patients. It’s not unheard of.

 

[hariseldon]

I’ll reply later when I’m at a PC but diffusionx is doing a good job of covering most of the salient points. I note that the usual suspects seem to still be insisting that we’re all going to die, but that’s based on outdated information. On current info, it’s just not true. None have addressed the damage caused by economic destruction, merely hand waving by claiming not locking down would hurt the economy more - this would be true if the virus was more deadly but it really isn’t. As I said - proper post coming later.

 

[Majukun]

No, the death rate is low for people under 70 because it does not affect them as much. Bottom line, period. It is true that they have a greater chance of surviving the treatment IF they need the treatment, but the far more relevant factor is that not as many of them need treatment. Again, for a lot of people, they show no symptoms, and for a lot more, it’s an illness they get over. This is just an objective fact.

then you will have no issue showing me the numbers of this undeniable and self evident fact.

Most research is indicating that this virus was circulating in this country as early as October or November, and definitely in January or February. We had no lockdowns and there’s no way we got to millions of COVID-19 cases in NY without significant spread pre-lockdown. We didn’t see ICUs getting overwhelmed in February.

I will also point out that you can go back to 2018 and find articles about hospitals being overwhelmed with flu patients. It’s not unheard of.

question, do you know what exponential growth is and how it works?
also, as far as i know the hypothesized cases dating earlier than december have been researched and debunked as simple bad cases of flu.

 

[prag16]

New study casting doubt on the "rampant asymptomatic spread" assumptions.

A study on infectivity of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers

An ongoing outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has spread around the world. It is debatable whether asymptomatic COVID-19 virus carriers are contagious. We report here a case of the asymptomatic patient and present clinical characteristics ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

you are very quick to call people retarded but you are STILL missing the entire point.

Do you know why the death rate of people under 70 is low?
Is it because they don't ever get badly effected by corona virus? No.
It's because they survive the treatment (again, 2 to 4 weeks of ICU treatment) long enough to clear their bodies of the virus.

Now, what happens if you shield the elderly and let the youngsters go on with their lives?
A lot of youngsters get infected, the number of them that needs ICu treatment gets high, your hospitals cannot give icu treatment to everyone anymore, and now young people start dying too because they don't have access to the treatment they need.

Why do you think the focus of every single country in the world until now it has been to flatten the curve?

And you know the funny thing? if we go with your plan, a lot of people die, a lot of people have to take huge sick leaves from their jobs and the economy STILL tanks.

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. Got stats to back up any of those claims?

 

[Majukun]

New study casting doubt on the "rampant asymptomatic spread" assumptions.

A study on infectivity of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers

An ongoing outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has spread around the world. It is debatable whether asymptomatic COVID-19 virus carriers are contagious. We report here a case of the asymptomatic patient and present clinical characteristics ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. Got stats to back up any of those claims?

merely fro italy

for us a quick google search made this pop up

Think you’re too young to be hospitalized by coronavirus? This chart shows why you’re wrong.

Of the more than 500 people known to be hospitalized in the US from the novel coronavirus, 18% were 45-54 years and 20% were aged 20-44 years.

www.weforum.org

admittedly old data and on a small sample

here some from france

Coronavirus: patients age in intensive care in France 2023 | Statista

Since the start of the pandemic caused by the novel coronavirus (COVID-19), it appeared that people were more vulnerable depending on their age group.

www.statista.com

again, the majority is old, but i'd say that 1/3 being younger than 65 years old it's way different than sayin "if you are not 75 years old you can walk it off"

 

[diffusionx]

then you will have no issue showing me the numbers of this undeniable and self evident fact.


question, do you know what exponential growth is and how it works?
also, as far as i know the hypothesized cases dating earlier than december have been researched and debunked as simple bad cases of flu.

What numbers do you want to know? That 35% of cases are asymptomatic - just posted that.

here is the NYC health department’s page on the topic:

COVID-19: Latest Data - NYC Health

www1.nyc.gov

Their official numbers are about 200k cases, 50k hospitalizations, and 16k deaths. In reality, the case number is probably 10x higher or even more, but let’s go with it.

You can see the chart on the bottom shows the vast majority of deaths are very old people. You can also see that hospitalizations skew heavily old as well. However, click on the cases section and you can see the cases are spreads across age cohorts as expected. So, objectively, a very large percentage of younger people (young in this case being <64) who tested positive did not need to go to the hospital. Just eyeballing it, it seems that 70-80% of people from 45-64 do not go to the hospital, and probably closer to 90% of 18-44. But for people older than 65, that number is more like 25%. I took the trouble to post screenshots of the chart, because I think it is important we cut through the hysteria and start to actually understand what is going on.

I would also theorize that the vast majority of those hospitalizations for <64 people have some form of pre-existing condition - obesity, diabetes, heart problem, etc. But that is beyond the scope of these charts.

 

[cryptoadam]

What happens if you shield the group of people who take up most of the beds in the ICU and Hospital? You wind up with more beds duh.

You probably still want to flatten the curve as they say but that can probably be done with social diastancing and masks.

But if the west invested more in protecting old age homes 40 to 50% of the deaths and hospitilizations could have been prevented.

 

[cryptoadam]

Iranian 107-year-old woman recovers from coronavirus - state-run Fars

"She defeated the virus with the help of doctors and nurses at the hospital," Fars said.

m.jpost.com

One tough old lady.

 

[DeepBreath87]

What numbers do you want to know? That 35% of cases are asymptomatic - just posted that.

here is the NYC health department’s page on the topic:

COVID-19: Latest Data - NYC Health

www1.nyc.gov

Their official numbers are about 200k cases, 50k hospitalizations, and 16k deaths. In reality, the case number is probably 10x higher or even more, but let’s go with it.

You can see the chart on the bottom shows the vast majority of deaths are very old people. You can also see that hospitalizations skew heavily old as well. However, click on the cases section and you can see the cases are spreads across age cohorts as expected. So, objectively, a very large percentage of younger people (young in this case being <64) who tested positive did not need to go to the hospital. Just eyeballing it, it seems that 70-80% of people from 45-64 do not go to the hospital, and probably closer to 90% of 18-44. But for people older than 65, that number is more like 25%. I took the trouble to post screenshots of the chart, because I think it is important we cut through the hysteria and start to actually understand what is going on.

I would also theorize that the vast majority of those hospitalizations for <64 people have some form of pre-existing condition - obesity, diabetes, heart problem, etc. But that is beyond the scope of these charts.

No I read on NPR that this all wrong. They interviewed a couple of scientists I’ve never heard of that said the CDC is all wrong. See I agree with NPR, only bad news is real. Optimism is just false hope. Stay home, stay safe.

 

[llien]

The death rate is low because it's not dangerous for healthy people under 70.

Germany, with it's 'record low" death rate and excess testing capacity, has CFR at 4-5%.
How does it go with "not dangerous for healthy people under 70" pretty please?

As a colleague of UK guy, non-smoker, regularly working out guy with rugby player body type, in his mid 40s, who said "it was hell" even before complications and then got blood blockage in hand and had to be operated, I want to know.

 

[Majukun]

What numbers do you want to know? That 35% of cases are asymptomatic - just posted that.

not that, never debated that.

You can see the chart on the bottom shows the vast majority of deaths are very old people.

again, never debated that, we are talking about how many younger people need treatment, not how many old people die, we already agreed that the majority of the deaths are older people.

You can also see that hospitalizations skew heavily old as well.
However, click on the cases section and you can see the cases are spreads across age cohorts as expected. So, objectively, a very large percentage of younger people (young in this case being <64) who tested positive did not need to go to the hospital.

First thing, let's define the threshold here...until now you talked about elders 75+ to defend now you are cuttin out the entire subsection of 65-74.
side note, just noticed with a google search that the pension average age in the us is between 59 and 62 years old..damn it's nice..in italy is more around 67/69

Just eyeballing it, it seems that 70-80% of people from 45-64 do not go to the hospital, and probably closer to 90% of 18-44. I took the trouble to post screenshots of the chart, because I think it is important we cut through the hysteria and start to actually understand what is going on.

But the very graph you posted shows that of all the people in need of hospitalization, basically half of them are younger than 75 years old, and 20% of them are under 65 years old so part of that age group that you said didn't need any defending and was gonna be fine by just staying home and rest.

going back to how this thing is more contagious than the normal flu, do you know how many people get the flu every year in the us? i didn't but according to google is between 39 and 50 mln,that's without any masks, lockdowns and social distancing because we don't do those for the flu, going for something more official is 8% on average according to cdc website with 10% in the peak season.

now h1n1 had a little lower than half the r0 of corona virus, so multiply that and then start cutting down percentages.

it's still a lot of people that you have to treat, way more of any realistic capacity a country or a state has.And when you have the capacity people start dying.

and that's without considering that when the hospital system goes haywire, people start losing teh access to other life saving treatments

 

[MisterFalcon]

Fatties and diabetes combined is a majority of the US population.

 

[cryptoadam]

You do you but this is not my thing. This is the type of activities i will be avoiding. But was never really my thing anyways.

Hopefully no super spreader there.

 

[-Minsc-]

A 1960's artists conception of 2022.

edit:

You do you but this is not my thing. This is the type of activities i will be avoiding. But was never really my thing anyways.

Hopefully no super spreader there.

Are we allowed to build a wall around these gatherings?

 

[pLow7]

You do you but this is not my thing. This is the type of activities i will be avoiding. But was never really my thing anyways.

Hopefully no super spreader there.

This is exactly what CAN happen if you open everything up. Those advocating that people will social dinstance and care for themselves don't see how stupid humanity can be.

 

[diffusionx]

But the very graph you posted shows that of all the people in need of hospitalization, basically half of them are younger than 75 years old, and 20% of them are under 65 years old so part of that age group that you said didn't need any defending and was gonna be fine by just staying home and rest.

That's actually not what I said. This is what I said - ""No, the death rate is low for people under 70 because it does not affect them as much." You asked for data to prove that, I sent it. You're just choosing to ignore it, by ignoring all the people that don't need hospitalization. NYC's own data says that about 90% of people under 45 recover on their own. Chances are the remaining, all have some other health problem.

Now, here's the twist - if the antibody tests the city is conducting are accurate, the number is actually more like 99%, as there are 10x more infected people than the official case count. I'm sick of reading hysterical doom-mongers who are unable to or choose not to look at the data that is coming out.

 

[cryptoadam]

We also got these people in Canada too

 

[The Scrivener]

We also got these people in Canada too

Just imagine a newspaper calling you an idiot.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

People don't care anymore.

 

[pLow7]

More than 100 people got infected because of a church service here in germany this week.

We will decide this evening if we return to local services, but it's pretty unlikely.

 

[prag16]

People don't care anymore.

Largely for good reason. Keep the elderly sheltered within reason, get everybody else (who is not currently sick) out there.

 

[hariseldon]

What numbers do you want to know? That 35% of cases are asymptomatic - just posted that.

here is the NYC health department’s page on the topic:

COVID-19: Latest Data - NYC Health

www1.nyc.gov

Their official numbers are about 200k cases, 50k hospitalizations, and 16k deaths. In reality, the case number is probably 10x higher or even more, but let’s go with it.

You can see the chart on the bottom shows the vast majority of deaths are very old people. You can also see that hospitalizations skew heavily old as well. However, click on the cases section and you can see the cases are spreads across age cohorts as expected. So, objectively, a very large percentage of younger people (young in this case being <64) who tested positive did not need to go to the hospital. Just eyeballing it, it seems that 70-80% of people from 45-64 do not go to the hospital, and probably closer to 90% of 18-44. But for people older than 65, that number is more like 25%. I took the trouble to post screenshots of the chart, because I think it is important we cut through the hysteria and start to actually understand what is going on.

I would also theorize that the vast majority of those hospitalizations for <64 people have some form of pre-existing condition - obesity, diabetes, heart problem, etc. But that is beyond the scope of these charts.

Thanks for putting the stats together, saves me a job. No doubt if we put fatties on a diet the numbers for young people would drop considerably too.

llien You seem to be doing your maths wrong. 4-5% CFR doesn't tell us anything useful when the whole population has not been tested. Most antibody tests out there for high death-count areas are saying 15-20% of the population has had it - assuming say 10% of the population of Germany has had it, that would mean 8.3m people have had covid, with 8371 deaths as of current worldometers. That gives a 0.1% CFR. However, considering the distribution is almost certainly going to mirror what we see above that means it's likely much higher among 70+ but much lower among the rest of the population, sub-flu even. Nobody is saying that getting the disease isn't unpleasant, and it's very nice of you to tilt emotions with your tail of woe, but it doesn't stop the facts, which are that most people will get over it without much suffering, the NHS will cope just fine, and lockdown is going to cause rampant poverty which will cause considerable deaths.

Consider the leftist view of post 2008 austerity in the UK. According to https://www.theguardian.com/society...tor-in-rising-suicide-rate-among-uk-men-study austerity led to 30-40000 additional suicide attempts in the UK, feel free to poke around https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_government_austerity_programme#Mortality to see the kind of figures being mentioned. Now this is going to create a VASTLY bigger debt for governments, and unemployment rates the likes of which we've not seen since the 30s (which I don't think was great for people's health), severely limiting their ability to help the economy, when we've not really fully recovered from the 2008 crash fully yet, how many deaths do you think that will cause?

Now I don't argue that on the early data lockdown made sense, but it's becoming increasingly clear as more data comes in that it's not. It's ok to change your mind on things as you get more information and the facts become more clear. In this case they have but we have people on this forum burying their heads in the sand and refusing to note the updated state of the problem.

Have people wear masks to keep numbers down (because now we know droplets are the big problem, surfaces not so much), shielding the vulnerable, one can restart the economy and crack on.

 

[DeepBreath87]

A 1960's artists conception of 2022.

edit:



Are we allowed to build a wall around these gatherings?

Do you know anything about the transmissions rates of this outside?

 

[The Scrivener]

The sixth name on that list (the 27 year old) is a murder victim.

Case of man found dead in car off of I-380 in Cedar Rapids ruled a homicide, police say

The Cedar Rapids Police Department said the case of a man found dead in a crashed vehicle off I-380 is being investigated as a homicide.

www.kcrg.com

I can't quite accept this lol so I did some sleuthing.

Here, "It was a very hard week, and ended with the news that we were most afraid of: we now know that Jordan died in a car crash that night. His wrecked car was discovered six days later on private property off I-380. It appears that he died on impact. The police are still investigating the circumstances around Jordan’s death."

Help with Jordan Haynes Funeral Expenses, organized by Megan Black

Friends and family: Thank you for your support over the past week as we have… Megan Black needs your support for Help with Jordan Haynes Funeral Expenses

www.gofundme.com

WTF kind of journalism is the NYT doing man? I hope someone with some social media clout runs with this story.

 

[Jezbollah]

This Cummings thing isnt going away until 1) he resigns (will not happen) or 2) they prove with cast iron evidence he only made the one trip so the media and left can shut the fuck up.

 

[hariseldon]

This Cummings thing isnt going away until 1) he resigns (will not happen) or 2) they prove with cast iron evidence he only made the one trip so the media and left can shut the fuck up.

In a way the government could do with riding it out to remind the press that they have no power here. Consider it worked with Priti Patel (the press were so racist going after her.. oh wait, wrong side, it's ok to go after her because she's not really a woman of colour).

What exactly is the story? What did he do exactly? I could do with knowing a bit more about it, as much as I'd love to give the press a black eye.

 

[cryptoadam]

Wasn't the Cummings guy the guy who wanted herd immunity?

If he wanted herd immunity and he broke the lock downs I don't see anything hypocritcal in his actions.

Contrast that with Levine in PA who puller "her" mom out of an old age home while ordering infected in there. Or DeBlasio showing up in a park in Brooklyn while he gave stay at home orders and banned non-essential travel.

The pandemic has melted peoples brains. Oh my god you drove to see your family time to send you to the electric chair for crimes against humanity.

 

[JordanN]

Waited in line today for almost 40 minutes in what is basically 30 degrees [Celsius] weather.

I don't know how people can do this everyday.

And yeah, the line actually started to go around the store and to the street.

 

[cryptoadam]

Waited in line today for almost 40 minutes in what is basically 30 degrees [Celsius] weather.

I don't know how people can do this everyday.

And yeah, the line actually started to go around the store and to the street.

1970's USSR called and they want their bread lines back LOL.

Of all the new normal stuff, this waiting in line to get into stores it the one that pisses me off the most. I swear I never thought I would see the day that in Canada this is what we would have to deal with.

 

[JordanN]

1970's USSR called and they want their bread lines back LOL.

Of all the new normal stuff, this waiting in line to get into stores it the one that pisses me off the most. I swear I never thought I would see the day that in Canada this is what we would have to deal with.

I just wanted to get a new fan but they were almost sold out of that stuff.

If you have any summer shopping, go do it now. Or else you'll wait in line forever only to come inside and find nothing.

 

[cryptoadam]

I just wanted to get a new fan but they were almost sold out of that stuff.

If you have any summer shopping, go do it now. Or else you'll wait in line forever only to come inside and find nothing.

I went to Maxi yesterday ( I am not sure if you have those in Ontario, its probably some english name though) and didn't have to wait to long to get in. But after I got my few groceries and I left there was a huge line up. Probably 50 or more people deep.

I was really glad I got there 30 minutes earlier because I hate waiting in lines.

At least its summer so I can deal with this, but if we still have these bread lines come winter time forget about it I basically will refuse to go shopping in person.

 

[Jezbollah]

In a way the government could do with riding it out to remind the press that they have no power here. Consider it worked with Priti Patel (the press were so racist going after her.. oh wait, wrong side, it's ok to go after her because she's not really a woman of colour).

What exactly is the story? What did he do exactly? I could do with knowing a bit more about it, as much as I'd love to give the press a black eye.

So the story seems to be that knowing that his wife had come down with COVID19, he took his kids up to their grandparents in Durham from London so they could look after them if he came down with it too. So people are losing their shit at this, even though the care of children is a consideration in judging what you can do in the lockdown restrictions.

So people don't like the fact 1) he travelled so far and 2) he is Dominic Cummings, even though kids were involved. So Boris is backing him on that basis

The press however seem to believe due to two witness statements that while up in Durham he was seen at a castle, which is very much against all lockdown guidelines. But this is based on two people saying so, nothing else.

So the press and left are frothing at both these things, Boris is defending based on the first point, in which he is justifying due to kids being involved, and everyone else is shouting loudly because they hate Dominic Cummings, Tories and Boris because they're rich lying cunts.

Meanwhile, people still silent on the fact Kier Starmer sent his kids to school during the same lockdown rules.