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[GhostWriter24]

The series went to shit after they took out planet exploration, and I stand by that.

What a horrible, mind numbing thing it is mining for ore and upgrades. Stupid fucking design decision.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I'm still baffled that people think ME2 was an excellent game. Meh level design, meh shooting mechanics, terrible main story...like all it had going for it was some good dialogue, and even that wasn't anywhere near the majority of dialogue. The development of the franchise felt like it was in reverse: ME1 was the best by virtue of having the least problems and then it just kind of slid...

The ME2 main questline was garbage, but the recruitment and loyalty missions had a lot of great content. That was actually the bulk of the game by time, so it does make sense that a lot of love went into them. It had some great squad-members generally (and some shit ones), like Mordin, Legion, and my bro-bro Garrus. EDI / Joker interaction was awesome (and not creepy, like in ME3), and then we got some very enjoyable DLC in Kasumi, Overlord and Shadowbroker. Coming off ME1, it was AMAZING. I don't need to tell you about how improved the combat is.

 

[HK-47]

The series went to shit after they took out planet exploration, and I stand by that.

What a horrible, mind numbing thing it is mining for ore and upgrades. Stupid fucking design decision.

bubububu the mako controls!!!

Then they give us the hammerhead, which could take like 2 shots before blowing up.

Then we got nothing.

 

[sTeLioSco]

They put way more time and effort into her face than into Tali's, a prominent character from the Mass Effect series. That was significantly more offensive to me than any story stuff.

marketing deals from ea....just shows how the project was handled.

<insert comment from pr about artistic integrity here>

 

[WrenchNinja]

marketing deals from ea....just shows how the project was handled.

<insert comment from pr about artistic integrity here>

Oh god artistic integrity. I remember the press fucking throwing that around all the the time while ignoring all this garbage present in the game.

 

[sTeLioSco]

Oh god artistic integrity. I remember the press fucking throwing that around all the the time while ignoring all this garbage present in the game.

what press?

 

[WrenchNinja]

Right, I mean PR.

 

[megalowho]

The ME2 main questline was garbage, but the recruitment and loyalty missions had a lot of great content. That was actually the bulk of the game by time, so it does make sense that a lot of love went into them. It had some great squad-members generally (and some shit ones), like Mordin, Legion, and my bro-bro Garrus. EDI / Joker interaction was awesome (and not creepy, like in ME3), and then we got some very enjoyable DLC in Kasumi, Overlord and Shadowbroker. Coming off ME1, it was AMAZING. I don't need to tell you about how improved the combat is.

ME2 always felt like a season of Mass Effect: The TV Series in the way it handled story while 1 and 3 focused more on the overall arc. Each recruitment, loyalty or DLC mission played out like a new episode, with the suicide run acting as the finale. Despite the fact that they were essentially spinning wheels I actually found it really refreshing, especially since the missions themselves were such great little self contained nuggets of lore and character.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

A Mass Effect episodic series would be the best thing ever, because then I could discover things about the setting and (mostly) interesting characters without an overbearing plot about Space Cthulhus blowing the galaxy for flimsy reasons.

 

[HK-47]

ME2 always felt like a season of Mass Effect: The TV Series in the way it handled story while 1 and 3 focused more on the overall arc. Each recruitment, loyalty or DLC mission played out like a new episode, with the suicide run acting as the finale. Despite the fact that they were essentially spinning wheels I actually found it really refreshing, especially since the missions themselves were such great little self contained nuggets of lore and character.

Too bad there actually was a main story, cause that shit only served to continually cause problems and be unbearably stupid.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Too bad there actually was a main story, cause that shit only served to continually cause problems and be unbearably stupid.

where'd mordin get that bug from

oh god it's the me2 spoiler thread all over again hleppppp *sucked into time paradox*

 

[i-Lo]

This is apparently answered in one of those Liara comics.

I think this is a huge problem with games today. If something doesn't make sense, is amiss or is too sensitive to get into details of, an answer awaits outside the game in a different medium. It is the idiocy or laziness of the highest magnitude and undermines the story and plot of a game that sells itself as "story-driven".

 

[Riposte]

ME2 always felt like a season of Mass Effect: The TV Series in the way it handled story while 1 and 3 focused more on the overall arc. Each recruitment, loyalty or DLC mission played out like a new episode, with the suicide run acting as the finale. Despite the fact that they were essentially spinning wheels I actually found it really refreshing, especially since the missions themselves were such great little self contained nuggets of lore and character.

Mass Effect 1 was like the exposition-heavy blockbuster movie. Mass Effect 2 was like the spin-off TV season. Mass Effect 3 was like the bloated trilogy (or multiple unplanned sequels) all rolled up in one.

I think Mass Effect 2's heist-movie theme is an excellent formula that lends itself well to that style of game.

 

[TacticalFox88]

That being said, I will stand by that Garrus is the best character in the whole goddamn series by a country mile, and in my top ten characters of all time in ANY medium, not just video games.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I really don't get why people like the Quarian/Geth arc at all, it was hot garbage. Legion's character was assassinated, the geth lost everything that made them interesting so they could become real boys and the Quarian's were evil morons. Tuchanka was excellent, one of the best missions in the series, but the rest of the game was utterly abysmal.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

they should make a game about garrus

either before me1 where he's solving kooky crimes as a lovable wiseacre, or after me3 where's a depressed drunk struggling with Shepard being gone, which wreaks havoc with his obvious dependent personality disorder

I really don't get why people like the Quarian/Geth arc at all, it was hot garbage. Legion's character was assassinated, the geth lost everything that made them interesting so they could become real boys and the Quarian's were evil morons. Tuchanka was excellent, one of the best missions in the series, but the rest of the game was utterly abysmal.

i got to go inside a computer okay

 

[thetrin]

I think this is a huge problem with games today. If something doesn't make sense, is amiss or is too sensitive to get into details of, an answer awaits outside the game in a different medium. It is the idiocy or laziness of the highest magnitude and undermines the story and plot of a game that sells itself for as "story-driven".

The standing issue in that respect is that too many video game devs don't know how to offer lore and a better sense of the world without intermittent info dumps. When they realize that info dumps are stupid, they just take it out without replacing it with a story telling mechanic that isn't braindead.

they should make a game about garrus

either before me1 where he's solving kooky crimes as a lovable wiseacre, or after me3 where's a depressed drunk struggling with Shepard being gone, which wreaks havoc with his obvious dependent personality disorder

I'd play a garrus game where you play as Archangel. it's basically Alien batman.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

i got to go inside a computer okay

You didn't even get the opportunity to become a toilet inside of it.

 

[Riposte]

i got to go inside a computer okay

It turns out the inside of a computer looks exactly like Mass Effect 3. Who would have known?

 

[HK-47]

Mass Effect 1 was like the exposition-heavy blockbuster movie. Mass Effect 2 was like the spin-off TV season. Mass Effect 3 was like the bloated trilogy (or multiple unplanned sequels) all rolled up in one.

I think Mass Effect 2's heist-movie theme is an excellent formula that lends itself well to that style of game.

Its also basically sets up dlc as new ministories or episodes.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

This is apparently answered in one of those Liara comics.



Right, because that is totally an ME3 problem, not a problem with the whole series.

(THAT WAS SARCASM)

Mass Effect 3 is the only game that depicts the Reapers invading a galaxy. Explain how Mass Effect 3's ambitiously underwhelming depiction is the fault of the entire series, and not just of Mass Effect 3. The way Sovereign acted in Mass Effect, and that it devastated the Citadel fleet by itself, one would expect the Reapers to be bristling with weapons and have an efficient plan. Rather than landing and firing the same single laser at everything they see. Also, HOOOOOOOONNNNNKKKKK.

 

[i-Lo]

The standing issue in that respect is that too many video game devs don't know how to offer lore and a better sense of the world without intermittent info dumps. When they realize that info dumps are stupid, they just take it out without replacing it with a story telling mechanic that isn't braindead.

I think every major discovery/introduction of a major plot point has and will inevitably continue to be "info dumps". The real question lies as to how better to deliver these large segments of story that are needed to be told to the player (if it isn't possible to convey the entire thing by visuals/audio alone). It's about breaking down the large info dumps into smaller chunks and distributing them more evenly which not only would help the pacing but would seem more logical.

For example, given ME was always supposed to be a trilogy, the writing should have been done before the first game out, outlining major component that would act as stepping stones on which the plot would move forward including "broad" issues and their potential solution. Had the idea of Crucible or the simple fact that older assimilated generations were working on a solution was mentioned in ME1 or 2, the whole "solution" would have been a touch easier to swallow. The same goes with Leviathan. It was both out of the blue and felt out of place in ME3. In the end, it came across as perhaps what they wanted it to be, a nigh retcon patchwork.

 

[HK-47]

I really don't get why people like the Quarian/Geth arc at all, it was hot garbage. Legion's character was assassinated, the geth lost everything that made them interesting so they could become real boys and the Quarian's were evil morons. Tuchanka was excellent, one of the best missions in the series, but the rest of the game was utterly abysmal.

Exactly. What happened to building their own future without reaper tech or their collectivist network culture being neither inferior or superior to individualistic species? Or the hub station they were building so all the geth programs could be together? It was sorta of mentioned once in 3 that the quarians destroyed it and that was the end of that goal of the entire species, let get some of that individualism!

 

[Meicyn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

It's cute what you're trying to do, but I'll play along anyway. There's hyperbole, and then there's bad hyperbole that's just so utterly ridiculous that it's difficult to take the individual who said it seriously. I can just imagine having a casual conversation about Mass Effect 3 among a group of friends and you rushing to exclaim that the game was so bad that it felt like having your dick cut off. Frankly, I think an awkward silence followed by an "um, OK?" would be the only appropriate response. It's as if there is an unofficial competition to see who can make the most extreme hyperbolic statement as to how bad Mass Effect 3 is.

"Yeah, Mass Effect 3 was so bad, it was like being raped."

I mean, really? The game was disappointing. I get it. I understand the lack of satisfaction. I only did one playthrough of Mass Effect 3 versus the dozens I did for the first game and the handful I did of the sequel because the third game left me annoyed. That being said, people shouting hyperbolic statements like yours only serves to dilute the constructive criticism delivered by gamers, especially when you consider how much more chaff we have versus wheat in the gaming industry. Mass Effect 3 certainly deserves to be criticized, but the hyperbole is getting really silly.

 

[Typographenia]

It turns out the inside of a computer looks exactly like Mass Effect 3. Who would have known?

This made me laugh harder than anything else in this thread, haha




So much love for ME1... brings a tear to my eye.
I wonder if anyone ever made a pc mod to change the gravity/speed on some of the planets you explore? It would have made going to the various surfaces and dealing with the hazardous environments more exciting from time to time.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Exactly. What happened to building their own future without reaper tech or their collectivist network culture being neither inferior or superior to individualistic species? Or the hub station they were building so all the geth programs could be together? It was sorta of mentioned once in 3 that the quarians destroyed it and that was the end of that goal of the entire species, let get some of that individualism!

or EDI afterwards explaining that the quarians "made a mistake" in making the geth a collective intelligence instead of an intelligence like our own (when the geth were never intended to be truly intelligent in the first place when they were designed)


see also: garrus deciding after me2 that he doesn't really want to be a spectre or a leader and is content to spend the rest of his life hanging out as shepard's buddy

 

[Psychoward]

HEY, LOCO


Though, this game did have Javik. Kind of.

Honestly, Vega wasn't terrible. It's just that the cast was kind of mediocre overall. And I love Liara and Garrus. Javik was nice yes, but he was also $10 Day 1 DLC. Tali was worse than she was in 2, EDI was lolworthy, and they made Ashley even worse and didn't improve on Kaidan at all.

 

[HK-47]

Honestly, Vega wasn't terrible. It's just that the cast was kind of mediocre overall. And I love Liara and Garrus. Javik was nice yes, but he was also $10 Day 1 DLC. Tali was worse than she was in 2, EDI was lolworthy, and they made Ashley even worse and didn't improve on Kaidan at all.

Vega didnt have anything to really work with. No mission, few talking opportunities.

 

[lastplayed]

See I look at it like this: ME2: infinitely replayable, ME3: finished it once and forgot most of it.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Mass Effect 3 is the only game that depicts the Reapers invading a galaxy. Explain how Mass Effect 3's ambitiously underwhelming depiction is the fault of the entire series, and not just of Mass Effect 3. The way Sovereign acted in Mass Effect, and that it devastated the Citadel fleet by itself, one would expect the Reapers to be bristling with weapons and have an efficient plan. Rather than landing and firing the same single laser at everything they see. Also, HOOOOOOOONNNNNKKKKK.

It took the Reapers a hundred years to wipe out the Protheans, when they actually successfully sprung their Citadel trap and took them by surprise. We KNEW it was a slow, meticulous process. We also knew from ME2 that they wanted to harvest new Reapers from humans, so of course they didn't just Base Delta Zero the planet Earth. This is one of those systemic problems that had its seeds planted in ME1, but because ME1 didn't actually show or explain anything in detail (just alluded to a bunch of mysterious, vague things), we didn't get people whining about it until the sequels. News flash: 80% of the stuff people complain about in the story was there in ME1, they just hadn't revealed it yet.

And man, the Reapers DID devastate the human fleet in a short space of time. Did you miss that bit of ME3?

EDIT: And if you want to complain about the Reapers being inefficient, you're going to have to also complain about ME1, where Sovereign has been putting his plan into motion for a thousand years (Rachni war caused by Sovvy), allowing the Citadel races to gather strength the whole time. Then, instead of attempting subterfuge and infiltrating Citadel government with the easy-access that Saren provided by indoctrinating increasing numbers of agents and taking full control, he decided to wait decades after he first corrupted Saren, search for a Beacon that he didn't know was going to be there, have Saren interact with the beacon which he can't understand, go find the Thorian and get Prothean mental something something, chase down a missing Mass Relay, go to a secret lost planet, and all so that they can use a back-door to the Citadel which they didn't need because Saren had direct access to the Citadel for the past 20 years anyway.

They only need a back door onto the Citadel because Saren got busted as a Spectre, which he wouldn't have if he hadn't searched for the back door to begin with. LOL. The council meeting area where you talk to them? It's one foot away from the citadel computer Saren needs two minutes of access to in order to open the Citadel and summon the Reaper Armada. Whoops!

I think this is a huge problem with games today. If something doesn't make sense, is amiss or is too sensitive to get into details of, an answer awaits outside the game in a different medium. It is the idiocy or laziness of the highest magnitude and undermines the story and plot of a game that sells itself for as "story-driven".

I agree, but even ME1 launched with novels pretty much straight away. This has been a long time problem of the series that came to a head between ME2 and ME3 when the amount of ME EU stuff skyrocketed to fifteen thousand different comic series, a host of shitty novels and an animated movie.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Honestly, Vega wasn't terrible. It's just that the cast was kind of mediocre overall. And I love Liara and Garrus. Javik was nice yes, but he was also $10 Day 1 DLC. Tali was worse than she was in 2, EDI was lolworthy, and they made Ashley even worse and didn't improve on Kaidan at all.

"Even worse"? When before ME3 was she bad?

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Import my face, I want to play the game,
Alas, it cannot load my female Shep.
I bought the DLC in Hudson's name,
And salivated while my wallet wept.

How hyped I was, how eager to complete
This epic saga set in outer space,
But overwrought this story was, replete
With stupid fucking fetch quests, killed the pace.

All my choices made, the things I've seen,
Were found to have no consequence, it sucked.
And all we got were endings: Blue, red, green.
Thus Mass Effect was well and truly fucked.

Such deep betray'l, such rage it did inflame.
I'll never play another BioWare game.

- William Shakespeare

 

[Jake Tower]

they should make a game about garrus

I'd play a garrus game where you play as Archangel. it's basically Alien batman.

Garrus Vakarian: The Dark Knight of Omega

 

[TacticalFox88]

I still find it utterly hilarious that, according to the Lore, that the Reapers and the Fleets only have weapons in the kiloton range.

Like...lol, really? So apparently using ancient alien technology 160 years or so in the future species across the entire galaxy don't have on board weapons barely more powerful than Nagasaki and Hiroshima....GTFO Bioware.

 

[Dany]

dat lazy writing.

 

[Slygmous]

They only need a back door onto the Citadel because Saren got busted as a Spectre, which he wouldn't have if he hadn't searched for the back door to begin with. LOL. The council meeting area where you talk to them? It's one foot away from the citadel computer Saren needs two minutes of access to in order to open the Citadel and summon the Reaper Armada. Whoops!

I never noticed this, it's pretty shoddy.
They could have fixed this plothole by having the required computer in a new location, only reached by the keepers and the back door. Easy.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I still find it utterly hilarious that, according to the Lore, that the Reapers and the Fleets only have weapons in the kiloton range.

Like...lol, really? So apparently using ancient alien technology 160 years or so in the future species across the entire galaxy don't have on board weapons barely more powerful than Nagasaki and Hiroshima....GTFO Bioware.

Um KT yield railguns and beam weapons on spacecraft of that size are pipedreams in real life. Why should it be automatically assumed that such weapons must be more powerful than what they are in ME? Because they are in Star Wars? The Reapers et al are capable of creating atomic weapons, certainly, but projectiles travelling .013 C are nothing to sneer at. I would suggest that there is a problem in that what is reflected in the lore is very different than what we see on screen in game (slow moving beam weapons and missiles), but the figures they're throwing out aren't problematic in and of themselves. There is a headscratcher involving how ME fields work (e.g. how conservation of energy can be present in a system where you can just "lower" or "raise" the mass of vast objects with a trivial electric charge), but that's a discussion for another time.

 

[K.Jack]

EDIT: And if you want to complain about the Reapers being inefficient, you're going to have to also complain about ME1, where Sovereign has been putting his plan into motion for a thousand years (Rachni war caused by Sovvy), allowing the Citadel races to gather strength the whole time. Then, instead of attempting subterfuge and infiltrating Citadel government with the easy-access that Saren provided by indoctrinating increasing numbers of agents and taking full control, he decided to wait decades after he first corrupted Saren, search for a Beacon that he didn't know was going to be there, have Saren interact with the beacon which he can't understand, go find the Thorian and get Prothean mental something something, chase down a missing Mass Relay, go to a secret lost planet, and all so that they can use a back-door to the Citadel which they didn't need because Saren had direct access to the Citadel for the past 20 years anyway.

They only need a back door onto the Citadel because Saren got busted as a Spectre, which he wouldn't have if he hadn't searched for the back door to begin with. LOL. The council meeting area where you talk to them? It's one foot away from the citadel computer Saren needs two minutes of access to in order to open the Citadel and summon the Reaper Armada. Whoops!

Well played sir.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

or EDI afterwards explaining that the quarians "made a mistake" in making the geth a collective intelligence instead of an intelligence like our own (when the geth were never intended to be truly intelligent in the first place when they were designed)


see also: garrus deciding after me2 that he doesn't really want to be a spectre or a leader and is content to spend the rest of his life hanging out as shepard's buddy

Pft! Garrus has always been Shepard's lackey.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

If you want to talk about sloppy writing in ME1, examine the entire starting sequence where you're trying to prove Saren guilty. Think about what proof Shepard actually has of Saren's guilt versus what the player alone has been shown, and observe how the game tries to make it seem like Shepard's reasonable and supported accusations are falling on stupid deaf ears. Think about how Tali's recording of Saren and Benezia has no reason to exist, completely contradicts the actual conversation between the two, and had to have been recorded before Eden Prime was attacked. Think about how the Council actually acts given all the information available to them, and what the game expects you to think that the Council is acting like. Remember how Shepard figures out The Most Important Thing Ever (what the Reapers are and what happened to the Protheans) within like five seconds of hearing the word "Reaper," coupled with a dream that he himself didn't think was important previously.

 

[Eusis]

If you want to talk about sloppy writing in ME1, examine the entire starting sequence where you're trying to prove Saren guilty. Think about what proof Shepard actually has of Saren's guilt versus what the player alone has been shown, and observe how the game tries to make it seem like Shepard's reasonable and supported accusations are falling on stupid deaf ears. Think about how Tali's recording of Saren and Benezia has no reason to exist, completely contradicts the actual conversation between the two, and had to have been recorded before Eden Prime was attacked. Think about how the Council actually acts given all the information available to them, and what the game expects you to think that the Council is acting like. Remember how Shepard figures out The Most Important Thing Ever (what the Reapers are and what happened to the Protheans) within like five seconds of hearing the word "Reaper," coupled with a dream that he himself didn't think was important previously.

Yeah, Bioware stories are more fun for being interactive than actually good. Hell, KotOR's ending was pretty poor, seemed to me Jade Empire was about as good as a Bioware ending gets.

 

[TacticalFox88]

If you want to talk about sloppy writing in ME1, examine the entire starting sequence where you're trying to prove Saren guilty. Think about what proof Shepard actually has of Saren's guilt versus what the player alone has been shown, and observe how the game tries to make it seem like Shepard's reasonable and supported accusations are falling on stupid deaf ears. Think about how Tali's recording of Saren and Benezia has no reason to exist, completely contradicts the actual conversation between the two, and had to have been recorded before Eden Prime was attacked. Think about how the Council actually acts given all the information available to them, and what the game expects you to think that the Council is acting like. Remember how Shepard figures out The Most Important Thing Ever (what the Reapers are and what happened to the Protheans) within like five seconds of hearing the word "Reaper," coupled with a dream that he himself didn't think was important previously.

Furthermore, this is a century and a half in the future and they say Saren's guilty over a TAPE recording? Are you fucking with me right now? Not only was the recording incredibly contrived and had no REAL incriminating evidence, that could've been EASILY faked.

But nope, Council seems "shocked" (I used that loosely as they have the emotional capacity of a fucking brick) and revokes Saren's Spectre status.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

If you want to talk about sloppy writing in ME1, examine the entire starting sequence where you're trying to prove Saren guilty. Think about what proof Shepard actually has of Saren's guilt versus what the player alone has been shown, and observe how the game tries to make it seem like Shepard's reasonable and supported accusations are falling on stupid deaf ears. Think about how Tali's recording of Saren and Benezia has no reason to exist, completely contradicts the actual conversation between the two, and had to have been recorded before Eden Prime was attacked. Think about how the Council actually acts given all the information available to them, and what the game expects you to think that the Council is acting like. Remember how Shepard figures out The Most Important Thing Ever (what the Reapers are and what happened to the Protheans) within like five seconds of hearing the word "Reaper," coupled with a dream that he himself didn't think was important previously.

I was just bringing up examples of Reaper inefficiency in the first game, but I'm always happy to bash a ME game! I was shouting at my screen for an option that read "keep your mouth shut and search for proof" or "I understand your skepticism council, and will investigate things further". Shepard sounds like such a fucking idiot during that part of the game. The actual recording itself is such fucking weak ass proof anyway, and I was expecting a sarcastic reply from the Turian Councillor where he laughs me out of the room again. At least, they should have had the recording verified by the Citadel VI or something like that just to confirm it's their voices, and not a future high tech audio-doctoring job.

As for the Geth recording, that's something I'd have to investigate further. If one Geth witnessed it, it's possible the information could have transmitted to the whole collective (likely even), and Tali would have found the data core on an unrelated Geth somewhere near where she was doing pilgrimage. Although the timeline is fuzzy because it's been a while since I played these quests without mashing the skip button and ignoring all the dialogue. So the open questions are: where did Tali find the Geth? When did she find the Geth?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

And then they decide that the best thing to do is immediately promote Shepard to Spectre because everybody else is busy, I guess.


Also nobody at the beginning ever seems surprised that Saren looks like the devil and has a crazy robot arm and wires on his face.

I was just bringing up examples of Reaper inefficiency in the first game, but I'm always happy to bash a ME game! I was shouting at my screen for an option that read "keep your mouth shut and search for proof" or "I understand your skepticism council, and will investigate things further". Shepard sounds like such a fucking idiot during that part of the game. The actual recording itself is such fucking weak ass proof anyway, and I was expecting a sarcastic reply from the Turian Councillor where he laughs me out of the room again. At least, they should have had the recording verified by the Citadel VI or something like that just to confirm it's their voices, and not a future high tech audio-doctoring job.

As for the Geth recording, that's something I'd have to investigate further. If one Geth witnessed it, it's possible the information could have transmitted to the whole collective (likely even), and Tali would have found the data core on an unrelated Geth somewhere near where she was doing pilgrimage. Although the timeline is fuzzy because it's been a while since I played these quests without mashing the skip button and ignoring all the dialogue. So the open questions are: where did Tali find the Geth? When did she find the Geth?

She talks about seeing the Geth and tracking them to a planet and then going to the Citadel to contact someone about it, and then you learn that she got shot and went to Dr. Michel's clinic on the Citadel "a week ago." So there's a random geth carrying an overheard exposition recording of Saren and Benezia, talking about Eden Prime in the past tense, at least over a week before Shepard finds Tali.

Shepard first gets to the Citadel something like 18 hours or two days after he's knocked out on Eden Prime (Anderson gives you a precise timeframe after you wake up, but I can't remember exactly). I guess time flows differently on the Citadel and you're supposed to assume that walking around the Citadel and talking to a handful of random people took several weeks.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Furthermore, this is a century and a half in the future and they say Saren's guilty over a TAPE recording? Are you fucking with me right now? Not only was the recording incredibly contrived and had no REAL incriminating evidence, that could've been EASILY faked.

But nope, Council seems "shocked" (I used that loosely as they have the emotional capacity of a fucking brick) and revokes Saren's Spectre status.

I found it weirder that they had a single, local cop investigating the Citadel for less that a day, for a crime that took place, like, literal lightyears away.

I was just bringing up examples of Reaper inefficiency in the first game, but I'm always happy to bash a ME game! I was shouting at my screen for an option that read "keep your mouth shut and search for proof" or "I understand your skepticism council, and will investigate things further". Shepard sounds like such a fucking idiot during that part of the game. The actual recording itself is such fucking weak ass proof anyway, and I was expecting a sarcastic reply from the Turian Councillor where he laughs me out of the room again. At least, they should have had the recording verified by the Citadel VI or something like that just to confirm it's their voices, and not a future high tech audio-doctoring job.

As for the Geth recording, that's something I'd have to investigate further. If one Geth witnessed it, it's possible the information could have transmitted to the whole collective (likely even), and Tali would have found the data core on an unrelated Geth somewhere near where she was doing pilgrimage. Although the timeline is fuzzy because it's been a while since I played these quests without mashing the skip button and ignoring all the dialogue. So the open questions are: where did Tali find the Geth? When did she find the Geth?

Doesn't Tali say she had the recording for at least a few days?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

And then they decide that the best thing to do is immediately promote Shepard to Spectre because everybody else is busy, I guess.

That's a bit shoddy, but he was at least being actively evaluated as a candidate for the position. Tbh if I was on the council, he would have been instantly disqualified when he tried to bring up a dream as evidence though.

Any good strategy game with no emphasis on how quickly you click buttons? something you can be play and be relaxed.

I don't remember, although you are unconscious for a day or something after EP blows up, and you could probably say there was more travel time / waiting on the citadel if you really wanted to stretch the timeline out a bit.

 

[TacticalFox88]

And then they decide that the best thing to do is immediately promote Shepard to Spectre because everybody else is busy, I guess.


Also nobody ever seems surprised that Saren looks like the devil and has a crazy robot arm and wires on his face.

lol, I know right? At that point in time, Shepard had done NOTHING to impress the Council enough with to say "Hey, human, you deserve to be a Spectre!"

All of Shepards recognitions came from the Alliance...humans...

Recognitions which a Council of a Turian, Salarian, and Asari have no reason to give two fucks about.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

It took the Reapers a hundred years to wipe out the Protheans, when they actually successfully sprung their Citadel trap and took them by surprise. We KNEW it was a slow, meticulous process. We also knew from ME2 that they wanted to harvest new Reapers from humans, so of course they didn't just Base Delta Zero the planet Earth. This is one of those systemic problems that had its seeds planted in ME1, but because ME1 didn't actually show or explain anything in detail (just alluded to a bunch of mysterious, vague things), we didn't get people whining about it until the sequels. News flash: 80% of the stuff people complain about in the story was there in ME1, they just hadn't revealed it yet.

The Protheans were a galaxy-wide empire. We also know the Protheans were not nearly as incompetent as the current cycle, whose "galactic leadership," the Council, is so cripplingly stupid that the plot wouldn't exist as it does were it not for their convenient idiocy. Why are they meticulous? We don't know. Except now we do. Turns out they aren't "meticulous," they're just astonishingly slow and inefficient. Orbital bombardment? No, let me just get right in there and blow their shuttles up, one by one. I sure hope there's a miserably transparent attempt at pathos inside them.

And man, the Reapers DID devastate the human fleet in a short space of time. Did you miss that bit of ME3?

We all missed it, seeing as it happened off-screen in the first 5 minutes of the game and is never mentioned again. Very ambitious storytelling.

EDIT: And if you want to complain about the Reapers being inefficient, you're going to have to also complain about ME1, where Sovereign has been putting his plan into motion for a thousand years (Rachni war caused by Sovvy), allowing the Citadel races to gather strength the whole time. Then, instead of attempting subterfuge and infiltrating Citadel government with the easy-access that Saren provided by indoctrinating increasing numbers of agents and taking full control, he decided to wait decades after he first corrupted Saren, search for a Beacon that he didn't know was going to be there, have Saren interact with the beacon which he can't understand, go find the Thorian and get Prothean mental something something, chase down a missing Mass Relay, go to a secret lost planet, and all so that they can use a back-door to the Citadel which they didn't need because Saren had direct access to the Citadel for the past 20 years anyway.

They only need a back door onto the Citadel because Saren got busted as a Spectre, which he wouldn't have if he hadn't searched for the back door to begin with. LOL. The council meeting area where you talk to them? It's one foot away from the citadel computer Saren needs two minutes of access to in order to open the Citadel and summon the Reaper Armada. Whoops!

Yeah, but then we wouldn't have a plot.

Turns out Mass Effect's plot doesn't stand up as much to scrutiny either. Like how Shepard is utterly convinced Saren shot Nihlus when all we know is that Nihlus was shot in the back of the head and some guy says he heard him call the other turian "Saren." But it actually has some mystery, doesn't leave gaping holes as it goes along (I think. Not until the end, where we see that the Conduit is just an independent mass relay that goes to the Citadel, like you said), and establishing the universe that it gets overlooked. Mass Effect 3, the conclusion of the trilogy, doesn't have those luxuries, and commits the same crimes, only worse. Under any scrutiny, the whole series falls apart (not even getting started on ME2), and you pretty much nailed the absurdity of the Conduit plot point. But Mass Effect 3 manages to be the low point on its own, not just as a lackluster conclusion.

 

[TacticalFox88]

"Aww yes, Reapers....we have dismissed that claim."

...I wanted to throw my controller at my tv in rage.

 

[eot]

The ME2 main questline was garbage, but the recruitment and loyalty missions had a lot of great content. That was actually the bulk of the game by time, so it does make sense that a lot of love went into them. It had some great squad-members generally (and some shit ones), like Mordin, Legion, and my bro-bro Garrus. EDI / Joker interaction was awesome (and not creepy, like in ME3), and then we got some very enjoyable DLC in Kasumi, Overlord and Shadowbroker. Coming off ME1, it was AMAZING. I don't need to tell you about how improved the combat is.

I'm not going to say that ME2's plot made a whole lot of sense when you examine it in more detail, but that doesn't bother me because the plot in ME2 is not much more than the premise. Structurally I think the game worked great because it was about getting to know your crew which then paid off in the suicide mission. If you wanted it to be focused more on the main plot like KotOR or ME1 then of course you might've been disappointed but I never thought the main plot was the best part of those games anyway, for me it was always the characters. ME3 just proves that to me, it's dead focused on the main plot and I thought it was worse for it. The complaint that ME2 is just treading water in the overall storyline is valid, but that doesn't invalidate ME2 on its own, only in the context of the series.