Forsaken82
Member
I loved Mass Effect and liked ME3...
The entire series ranks up there as my favorite new IP of the generation.
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Mass Effect 3: Just a bad ending? (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Sojgat
- Start date
I loved Mass Effect and liked ME3...
The entire series ranks up there as my favorite new IP of the generation.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Seriously though. Who comes up with a trilogy and literally makes shit up as they go along?
Cerberus was a prime example of this. The Cerberus from ME1 isn't even CLOSE to being the same entity it is in ME2 and 3.
Cerberus was a prime example of this. The Cerberus from ME1 isn't even CLOSE to being the same entity it is in ME2 and 3.
Typographenia
Member
I went with Ashley in the first game, but I romanced Tali in 2/3.
Her character was really annoying in ME2, and I wasn't too wild about her in ME3 (more the redesign than anything). Still, Ash had the coolest armor of anyone in the games (ME1), and the name is nice too. ; )
Oh, they didn't get rid of it, they just made it an on/off switch instead of a customizable build per weapon so each weapon could be designed toward a particular enemy or enemy type. All they really managed to do was make me end each encounter looking around for shiny tubes instead of just continuing on into the next room.
edit: Obviously combat evolved more than that, but I mean in reference to the weapons specifically.
TheIronChancellor
Member
Part of the reason that the single player was such a let down was that the series was hyped around the idea that your choices would matter, be they from the preceding games or from that game itself. In three literally none of your choices make a differences. Kill the Rachni queen in the first game, doesn't matter reapers magically have another despite the fact that the one in ME1 was the definitive last Rachni queen in existence. The ending was so bad that the fans created their own ending (indoctrination theory) that made much more sense the ending we got, and ending where you shepard, a shepard who had throughout the entire series challenged his supposed superiers (Sarin, Harbinger, etc.), just gives in to what magic space child says.
Oh don't remind me... playing an Infiltrator in ME2 is always a pain in the ass since you're always out of ammo for your sniper rifles.
At least this doesn't seem to be a case in ME3, guess they improved the drop rate on those thermal clips, thankfully.
Cerberus was a terrorist organization in both I and III, pulling a lot of crazy stuff. And it was absolutely nonsensical Shephard bought into the organization's sea change in the second game.
Looking back, making Cerberus an integral part of II was a terrible decision.
Typographenia
Member
I don't know, dude. If some organization dropped that much money and resources on reanimating your corpse, you'd probably feel a little tinge of guilt to do something in return.
Granted, it's making a deal with the devil, in this case, but still! That guilt...
Guilt is for the weak. ಠ_ಠ
I find it fascinating that everyone who holds the belief that LITERALLY NONE of your choices mattered can cite the Rachni queen as their only bit of evidence for that claim.
- Mordin dying or living
- Tali dying or living
- Geth/Quarian conflict outcome
- Conrad Verner (and the Matriarch writings and weapons licenses)
- any/all of your squad from ME2 appearing in ME3
- Wrex & the genophage
- love interest
All of these outcomes were determined by decisions made/quests completed in 1, 2 or both.
What were people expecting? They clearly had a specific story to tell, and they were just giving us slightly different - but parallel - routes to get there.
Well when They said that your choices would affect the ending and that the endings would not just be a simple options 1,2 & 3 it was pretty disappointing that it was exactly what you got. In the end all your decisions amounted to was numbers on a board and even that number barely affected the ending at all either.
WrenchNinja
Member
I dont see how getting a volus bombing fleet or a salarian stg squad or a geth prime platoon affected anything in the game.
But hey you got a number and your green bar that lets you pick what coloured explosion increased, choices mattered guys.
But hey you got a number and your green bar that lets you pick what coloured explosion increased, choices mattered guys.
So they didn't deliver on the last 10 minutes of the game, OK, so what? The rest of the game (and series) was pretty damn good. Again, what were people expecting? It's computer software, any decision you make is going to boil down to numbers inputted into a formula to give you an outcome.
It's been that way since ME1 when people started making spreadsheets to min/max your Paragon/Renegade ratings and map out all the percentages of the powers. In order for them to meet the expectations you're implying, ME3 wouldn't have come out for a very long time, if at all. Too many variables to account for and make content for.
Everyone keeps coming back to the advertising and marketing as if it was some sort of personal promise that Bioware reneged on, treating it as an infraction of Geek Fallacy #3.
"Welp, they didn't deliver, guess I can write them off...forever."
WrenchNinja
Member
Oh Im sorry, was priority earth only five minutes long? Thats the entirety of the fucking final mission, and not one of those stupid war assets did anything.
You were referring to war assets which only affect which color the ending was, aka the last 5 minutes of the game. What decisions are there in Priority Earth besides kill every enemy on the screen?
Ignoring the list of events that I posted that were dependent on decisions from the previous games does not a convincing argument make. It's only confirming your bias.
WrenchNinja
Member
That is my problem with the entirety of the game. I expected the war assets to play a part in the final mission. You are amassing an army. I assumed we would be making choices by preparing and making choices on a grander scale than the suicide mission.
Instead I got another generic shooting mission where absolutely nothing I did in the game affected how the mission would play out. Instead all those stupid fucking fetch quests and side missions amounted to being able to choose different coloured explosions. What difference did it make if you settled the geth and quarian conflict or cured the genophage or not?
Are you happy that thats what the game builds up to?
TheIronChancellor
Member
None of these mattered in the grand scheme at all. If my choices had mattered they would have had some impact on the ending of the game, they didn't. The game ended the same for everyone, thus your choices did not matter.
Cerberus was rogue black ops in 1. In 3 they are a galactic organization with huge reach and recruitment.
Not the same at all.
How many years is there between ME1 and ME3? 3 years? I guess that can be enough time to grow into a bigger organization. Even if in the real world, that would probably take 10 years for the size Cerberus is in ME3. But then again, this isn't the real world.
Just finished this after skipping it at launch. Apart from some horrendous filler sidequests and the whole Rachni thing, i thought it was pretty excellant, ending and all.
It was made pretty clear in ME2 that Shepherd wasn't buying it, and was doing it because she (femshep all the way) had no real choice. At no point does Shepherd think that Cerberus are suddenly the good guys.
Yeah, sucky in the context of the series i guess, but it's no different to doing your sidequest log in any other RPG. You get exp and your level goes up, that's it.
Well, they were essentially under Reaper control for an unspecified amount of time.
It was made pretty clear in ME2 that Shepherd wasn't buying it, and was doing it because she (femshep all the way) had no real choice. At no point does Shepherd think that Cerberus are suddenly the good guys.
Yeah, sucky in the context of the series i guess, but it's no different to doing your sidequest log in any other RPG. You get exp and your level goes up, that's it.
Well, they were essentially under Reaper control for an unspecified amount of time.
Eh. Except for Wrex and Conrad Verner, all of those choices were specifically from ME2. There are a ton of choices that you can make in the first game that have no consequence. Council, Anderson/Udina, Feros colonists, Shiala, etc. Plus your LI doesn't really matter as you can dump him/her in the following game and move .to somebody else with no consequence.
My love interest in the first game was Kaiden. After my fling with Garrus in 2, he was extremely off with me in the 3rd one. Every encounter was clearly awkward.
The Anderson/Udina thing is BS, yes, but i guess that having Udina in Cerberus' pocket required too big a rewrite.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
If the ending didn't suck so hard I would venture people wouldn't be so hard/critical on ME3's other failings, heh.
Basileus777
Member
If it wasn't for the ending, those other failures would get more attention, like what happened with ME2.
The Anderson/Udina isn't even saved when you beat ME1. It's why Miranda/Jacob asks you who you chose in the "interview" they did in the beginning of ME2. :lol
But yes, having Udina being a traitor and Anderson staying on Earth in ME3 probably wouldn't have work the other way around if that particular choice mattered. But i guess it wouldn't have stop Udina to help Cerberus even if he was just an advisor rather than a Councilor. And Anderson... well, do Councilors ever leave the Citadel?
But yes, having Udina being a traitor and Anderson staying on Earth in ME3 probably wouldn't have work the other way around if that particular choice mattered. But i guess it wouldn't have stop Udina to help Cerberus even if he was just an advisor rather than a Councilor. And Anderson... well, do Councilors ever leave the Citadel?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Really? I feel like people were/are still so pissed off about the ending they began to amplify their negativity towards any other failings on the game, not that I wouldn't blame them though, hahaha.
What kind of low expectations did you have for that one to be fulfilling in any kind of way? It was a mess that didn't even knew what it was just two installments ago.
Or fans can let negative critique go through instead of complaining about it too?
captainnapalm
Member
Mass Effect 3's biggest sin was the same sin that Dragon Age 2 committed. Everything's so dumbed down and streamlined, so many corners were cut, that there is no real reason to ever replay these games. And even while playing them, you get the idea that you are just being led from one point to another with very little actual engagement in what you're doing. This really is poor form for any RPG.
I remember before Mass Effect 3 looking forward to starting the trilogy again at some stage and making different choices and doing things a bit differently, but ME3 killed any desire I had to do it, because really I'd just be playing the exact same boring game over again.
I'd say ME3 really deserves a lot of the criticism it received. As did Dragon Age 2, particularly because of what they did to great franchises.
I don't know if EA is definitely to blame, but it does seem like Bioware cashed in and starting turning in half-assed efforts. A real shame.
I remember before Mass Effect 3 looking forward to starting the trilogy again at some stage and making different choices and doing things a bit differently, but ME3 killed any desire I had to do it, because really I'd just be playing the exact same boring game over again.
I'd say ME3 really deserves a lot of the criticism it received. As did Dragon Age 2, particularly because of what they did to great franchises.
I don't know if EA is definitely to blame, but it does seem like Bioware cashed in and starting turning in half-assed efforts. A real shame.
heliosRAzi
Banned
You forgot your choice on whether the Council lives or dies... oh wait...
Also choosing Anderson to be on the council... fuck
At least choosing to keep the Collector base or not matters... Shit
Anyway, when most people say that your choices don't matter, they mean in relation to the ending. People wanted to see more than just red, blue, and green. They wanted to see a result of all of their choices played out organically. Unfortunately, Bioware didn't plan out the entire trilogy so that they could pull this off. So yeah, they didn't deliver in the last ten minutes, but those last ten minutes were crucial. It's the ending to a massive trilogy, a trilogy you helped to shape. And to see it all result in a set of arbitrary numbers and a technicolor explosion was disheartening.
Basically, people wanted to say "Hey, I got this ending by saving the krogan, keeping Anderson on the Council, and killing the Rachni Queen." not "I chose the Control ending. Next time, I'll choose the destroy ending."
Well you're implying a lot of things from my post that I never said.
Regarding the advertising I don't really feel Bioware reneged on anything as these interviews took place around release. The game was already done so there wasn't time to renege on anything. They just didn't tell the truth or displayed a strange lack of understanding of what they had made for the end game.
And yeah for the most part yeah I do just dislike the last half hour of the series but that is a big deal. when you build three games building up to something that, in my opinion at least flopped THAT badly it's not surprising the backlash happened.
I'm still a fan of the series and will likely buy any more DLC they release and any future games in the series but man I can't pretend the ending is good. Even the extended cut only changed it from being awful to just bad but by then the damage was done and I don't think there's anything more that Bioware could do about it.
Seeing this thread reminded me that I still needed to finish the last 20 minutes of the game.
Sooo how bad was the original ending in comparison?
My biggest issue was the lack of Harbinger, who had this monologue at the end of 2, marking him as some kind of nefarious space devil. Then bam, AI child is behind it all and kind of reasonable. Don't even see Harbinger again.
Sooo how bad was the original ending in comparison?
My biggest issue was the lack of Harbinger, who had this monologue at the end of 2, marking him as some kind of nefarious space devil. Then bam, AI child is behind it all and kind of reasonable. Don't even see Harbinger again.
Well, you do see him... for 2 minutes. And he doesn't even say a single word.
They really ruined him in ME3, and it's not like it's because the voice actor wasn't there. He didn't mind coming back for the multiplayer Collectors trailer, so...what happened?
Cerberus in Mass Effect has bases all over the place, in multiple star systems. It's conducting horrible experiments and messing with Alliance forces. The original Mass Effect doesn't beat you over the head with Cerberus' scope and abilities, but you can imagine it takes a lot of $$$ and manpower to operate all those bases.
The Cerberus in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 3 are the same organization, just brought to the fore in the third game. It's the sea changes in the group between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effects 2 and 3 that are problematic.
I don''t think I can explain why I wasn't bothered by the way the game went, at least not to an extent which would satiate the desire to paint me as an abnormality. I simply consumed the product and found it to be satisfying, by no conscious choosing of my own. I never thought to myself that it had to be anything.
My anticipations leading up were that I'd be presented with multiple choices, to answer the question of what to do with the Crucible. I knew it wouldn't be an "I Win!" button. So my only concern was whether they'd be believable or not, and the three of them made sense to me in the context of the situation.
That's pretty much it.
AI child isnt reasonable at all. You only have to think about it for a little bit to realize everything he says is contradictory and stupid.
Oh no, I picked up on his contradictions, etc. By reasonable I meant, he basically goes "okay Shepard, you're obviously smarter than me. What should I do?" As opposed to "gonna need you to convince me not to blow shit up!"
For an AI set in his ways to destroy everything we hold precious, he seemed pretty chill.
WrenchNinja
Member
Yes, its a lot different when The game keeps making a big deal about your galactic readiness and the war assets. Exp makes you more experienced stronger, money lets you buy new equipment, war assets fill out a green bar that gives you a rbg explosions. What is the connection between obtaining a fleet of turians and turning them into circuit boarded freaks?
Jake Tower
Banned
Namely, Cerberus goes from an organization that requires you to spend an entire game recruiting a 'dirty dozen' for one mission, to a galaxy-wide military organization better manned and equipped than the Alliance, or any other military you see.
Yeah there were some issues with Cerberus between all 3 games.
I don't see that as problematic, honestly. I suppose if you wanted to, you could imagine the Illusive Man threw Shephard at the Collectors while marshaling forces against the true threat.
BioWare had to change Cerberus in Mass Effect 2, to whitewash the group's terrorist activities to the point where it wouldn't seem like Shephard was wholly compromising himself when he took on its mission. And it had to fool the good people who fell in with Cerberus: Jacob, the engineers, Joker, the doctor, etc. That meant a Shakespearian sea change -- but it wasn't at all believable.
And, of course, Cerberus went back to being a terrorist organization in Mass Effect III because the game's plot demanded it.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I bought the digital deluxe edition (includes From Ashes) and picked up Leviathan along with it during the Origin Christmas sale. I had completely ignored the game before this after being disappointed with Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age 2, TOR, and hearing all of the negativity surrounding the original release Mass Effect 3.
I just finished it now after 25 hours and damn, I'm sure glad I gave it an honest play through. What a blast. The original game is still may favorite, but this one comes pretty close. I loved what they did with the story and how they concluded most party members' stories. Honestly, the only complaint I have about the story was Kai Leng. He just annoyed the shit out of me. I mean, Shepard and team kill fucking Reapers, and get out of all sorts of crazy situations, but they are bested by some dumbshit anime boy? Something about the character and his ridiculous superiority (until it came time to actually kill him) just irked me. I bet the same person that created that emo mage-killing elf in Dragon Age 2 created Kai Leng. Yuck.
Anyway, other than that, I really liked most everything about the game and how it all wrapped up. I went through the "shoot the kid" and "control the universe" endings, but I still haven't seen the "kill all synthetic life" ending. I chose to save the Geth, so that one didn't sit well with me.
I look forward to see what they do with this series in the future. I hope they get a chance to make a more proper RPG along the lines of the original vision in future games, but we'll probably only end up getting more shooters.
edit: wow, I just read all of the changes they made to the extended cut, which was the version I played through. Without that and the Leviathan DLC, I probably would be feeling very differently about the game right now. Glad I waited this long.
I just finished it now after 25 hours and damn, I'm sure glad I gave it an honest play through. What a blast. The original game is still may favorite, but this one comes pretty close. I loved what they did with the story and how they concluded most party members' stories. Honestly, the only complaint I have about the story was Kai Leng. He just annoyed the shit out of me. I mean, Shepard and team kill fucking Reapers, and get out of all sorts of crazy situations, but they are bested by some dumbshit anime boy? Something about the character and his ridiculous superiority (until it came time to actually kill him) just irked me. I bet the same person that created that emo mage-killing elf in Dragon Age 2 created Kai Leng. Yuck.
Anyway, other than that, I really liked most everything about the game and how it all wrapped up. I went through the "shoot the kid" and "control the universe" endings, but I still haven't seen the "kill all synthetic life" ending. I chose to save the Geth, so that one didn't sit well with me.
I look forward to see what they do with this series in the future. I hope they get a chance to make a more proper RPG along the lines of the original vision in future games, but we'll probably only end up getting more shooters.
edit: wow, I just read all of the changes they made to the extended cut, which was the version I played through. Without that and the Leviathan DLC, I probably would be feeling very differently about the game right now. Glad I waited this long.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
The Rakni Queen is also one of the bigger dropped balls in ME3.
Prequels.
Though I don't think prequels are inherently bad, the most appealing aspect of the ME verse was that humanity had just made its debut on the council and had much to show for itself.
RPGCrazied
Member
I thought they were great. Of course my first time through I had From Ashes and Leviathan installed. My favorite was the synthetic ending.
For what it's worth, I was big fan of the first two games but I avoided the third game until recently because of all the bad word of mouth.
I decided to give it a chance because I never thought the writing in the games was all that great, especially Mass Effect 2, so I figured that even if the ending was a little weak I could still enjoy the characters and world building.
Nope, the ending really is bad enough to retroactively ruin the entire game and the entire series. I really didn't think such a thing would be possible but now I don't want to ever play another Mass Effect game again.
With regard to choices not affecting the ending, I personally feel that people have way too high expectations for games where you make choices - sorry, no commercial game developer is going write different scenarios for every possible choice you make, so that every individual player only experiences 5% of the content in the game. It's a massive waste of resources. I had no issue with your choices not influencing the ending and barely influencing the game. The problems with the ending go way beyond that.
Maybe two years from now or whenever the next one comes out I'll be willing to give it a chance if it gets good buzz, but I'll definitely be extremely wary and I'm sure most of the fans are in the same boat. BioWare really has their work cut out for them and judging by their recent output I don't have a lot of faith they can pull it off.
I figured that has to be the direction they'll be going. Did they confirm it yet? I'm one of those who thinks that prequels are inherently bad, so that would probably be a dealbreaker for me.
If it were up to me, I'd just make the destruction ending canon and go from there, having a smaller-scale story.
That's not really a fair criticism. TIM was indoctrinated. Also - lots of people think that the Crucible was a deus ex machina - I disagree, I thought that having a weapon that was worked on and improved from species from every previous cycle to stop the reapers was an interesting idea. It's how the device actually functioned that I have a problem with.
I decided to give it a chance because I never thought the writing in the games was all that great, especially Mass Effect 2, so I figured that even if the ending was a little weak I could still enjoy the characters and world building.
Nope, the ending really is bad enough to retroactively ruin the entire game and the entire series. I really didn't think such a thing would be possible but now I don't want to ever play another Mass Effect game again.
With regard to choices not affecting the ending, I personally feel that people have way too high expectations for games where you make choices - sorry, no commercial game developer is going write different scenarios for every possible choice you make, so that every individual player only experiences 5% of the content in the game. It's a massive waste of resources. I had no issue with your choices not influencing the ending and barely influencing the game. The problems with the ending go way beyond that.
Maybe two years from now or whenever the next one comes out I'll be willing to give it a chance if it gets good buzz, but I'll definitely be extremely wary and I'm sure most of the fans are in the same boat. BioWare really has their work cut out for them and judging by their recent output I don't have a lot of faith they can pull it off.
I figured that has to be the direction they'll be going. Did they confirm it yet? I'm one of those who thinks that prequels are inherently bad, so that would probably be a dealbreaker for me.
If it were up to me, I'd just make the destruction ending canon and go from there, having a smaller-scale story.
That's not really a fair criticism. TIM was indoctrinated. Also - lots of people think that the Crucible was a deus ex machina - I disagree, I thought that having a weapon that was worked on and improved from species from every previous cycle to stop the reapers was an interesting idea. It's how the device actually functioned that I have a problem with.
This truly boggles my mind.
You were fine with Shepard making an decision that will change the very core of every single species? What happens to the Geth now? Why is everyone glowing green? What is that ending supposed to fix? How does it prevent any further conflicts between the races?
I mean what the hell do they mean with by everyone is synthetic? Do we have circuit boards under our skin? Do we still need to eat, drink or sleep? Why did they show the trees as synthetic too? Why is Jokers hat glowing green?
It's such a strange ending. They don't explain anything.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Oh man, I sure hope it's not prequels. Since we're inevitably going to be playing humans (can't have a main character that's an alien in a big budget title), I'd much rather it take place after all of this. I don't much care to see what humans were doing before the Reaper threat.
Bioware should just pick the control or "kill all synthetic life" ending as canon, since those are the only two that preserve humans as they are. I'd be interesting in seeing a continuation of the story after either of those endings (either with there being no Reapers or Reapers controlled by god Shepard).
If they are done with the universe and don't want to go back to it then the only option other than prequels are interquels featuring other characters, which would be nice.
I kinda just don't want Bioware to make a new IP because we'll just get KOTOR/DA1/ME1's plot all over again.
I kinda just don't want Bioware to make a new IP because we'll just get KOTOR/DA1/ME1's plot all over again.
RPGCrazied
Member
I never have enough paragon/renegade for the last scenes in all the games. 
I'm guessing those are for more than one playthrough? I'm guessing that carries over. Can you import a 3 character into 1?
I'm guessing those are for more than one playthrough? I'm guessing that carries over. Can you import a 3 character into 1?