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Mass Effect Legendary Edition made me just realize what a broken mess console gaming has become

Aug 5, 2009
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Games should be playable on the disc form, no excuses are accepted here, and you don't need to run DRM checks online like Microsoft forces you on Xbox Series X|S.

EA games ask you to log in to their servers just like quite a lot of games no matter the system or developer
This nonsense over online is just that, sheer nonsense! When everyone and their gran is online these days I would worry more about what is done when the consoles production run is over and then will the game developer allow the game to be played without the need to log in to their servers, but that's a worry for 6 years down the line


I grew up in the ZX Spectrum era and anyone who thinks these days are worse never had their brand new game chewed by their tape deck LOL
 

Bo_Hazem

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EA games ask you to log in to their servers just like quite a lot of games no matter the system or developer
This nonsense over online is just that, sheer nonsense! When everyone and their gran is online these days I would worry more about what is done when the consoles production run is over and then will the game developer allow the game to be played without the need to log in to their servers, but that's a worry for 6 years down the line


I grew up in the ZX Spectrum era and anyone who thinks these days are worse never had their brand new game chewed by their tape deck LOL

I don't know how you live, but sometimes we just take playstations to our camps in the wild using electricity motors (run by petrol) to play fifa and other games. You don't always have good access to internet, and for children some parents wanna monitor their children and want them to play without internet.

Those very people won't go to IGN or Gaf to express their opinion, but console and game sales will speak. The Crew and The Division get sales hit because of the DRM/constant internet requirement.
 
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Aug 5, 2009
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I don't know how you live, but sometimes we just take playstations to our camps in the wild using electricity motors (run by petrol) to play fifa and other games. You don't always have good access to internet, and for children some parents wanna monitor their children and want them to play without internet.

Those very people won't go to IGN or Gaf to express their opinion, but console and game sales will speak. The Crew and The Division get sales hit because of the DRM/constant internet requirement.
Please. I live in rural Wales (my house is far left)







Even here we have Fibre and a pretty good 4G signal (5G still a dream)). Forget playing games, even making games now need the internet since so many of the major Western studios work from home.
Speaking of work, unless you got an email address and online you can't even apply for a new job or a different role with my employer (NHS) The Division was a smash hit much like Destiny and many other games that need online. Remind us again how many players have Fortnite got again?

So please, the world is going digital like it or not.
 
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Goalus

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Mar 5, 2017
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Sigh, once again I am telling you that with my internet speed it would take like 8-10 hours to download 90GB. Sadly a 50Mbit connection is the fastest my provider can offer in the "third-world" area I live, aka Germany's 9th biggest city.
I bet it took more than 8-10 hours to deliver the physical discs from wherever you ordered them.

Also:
50 Mb = 6 MB
90000 MB / (6 MB/s) = 15000 s
15000 s / (3600 s/h) = 4.2 h

That's 4 hours and 15 minutes for 90 GB.

I happen to live in Germany too and happen to have a 50 Mb connection too and happen to have an Xbox too, and 4 hours is what it usually takes to download 90 GB.
 
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llOswaldll

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Physical games are cheaper, plus you can lend them to friends / borrow them / sell & trade them in.

Why would you not take that option?
 

kingkaiser

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I bet it took more than 8-10 hours to deliver the physical discs from wherever you ordered them.

Also:
50 Mb = 6 MB
90000 MB / (6 MB/s) = 15000 s
15000 s / (3600 s/h) = 4.2 h

That's 4 hours and 15 minutes for 90 GB.

I happen to live in Germany too and happen to have a 50 Mb connection too and happen to have an Xbox too, and 4 hours is what it usually takes to download 90 GB.
Well, very nice example for a theoretical case that never happens in real life cause my download speeds on Xbox never seem to be stable. Might have to do something with living in a household of three and everyone having at least two devices being connected with the home Wi-Fi 24/7, it gets ridiculous sometimes with speeds crashing to Kbyte level than jumping back to the range of 30-50Mbit/s for some seconds just to stop downloading completely. It’s not a fun experience at all and I actually like to have physical copies of my games, especially when they are part of my all-time favorites.
 
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Memorabilia

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Oct 25, 2013
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Physical will be really dead once Starlink is fully deployed. Having a bad internet connection due to your location will be a thing of the past.
We're in rural Pacific Northwest US. I wouldn't move back to the city if a gun was put to my head. But, internet speeds out here in the "boonies" are bad enough to make us at least fleetingly consider it. 😉

So, for us, what Starlink promises is quite literally both a way to save our country lifestyle and our sanity. Signed up immediately and we're supposed to have Starlink available in our area "mid to late 2021". Our family is almost irrationally excited about this possibility. But I am cautioning everyone not to get their hopes up. Early reports of Starlink performance are mostly solid, but there are many challenges/hurdles they still need to clear to provide seamless connections with close to zero downtime.

For US, though, Starlink is a potential game changer. The cost isn't an issue. We pay more than twice as much per month for two separate Wi-Max connections - a decent 25mbps for $130/month that is pretty consistent & a shitty 10mbps setup from a competitor for $115/month (that only really delivers 5-8 most of the time). I feel we have to keep them both bc the nature of Wi-Max in the country is unreliable so if one tower is down the idea is the other will be up.

So, theoretically, Starlink could allow us to ditch both of those and cut our monthly cost from $245/month for a combined 42mbps to $99/monthn for 100+mbps. If Starlink turns out to be highly reliable this is what we'll do. But I'm counting on needing to keep the 25mbps Wi-Max as a "backup" for at least the first 6-12 months while Starlink works out all the kinks and gets more satellites into orbit.

Having said all that, I don't think Starlink is ever going to be the be all, end all solution for slow internet. It's at best going to end up a nice complementary service to better terrestrial systems that will ultimately need to be widely expanded at great cost if the "all digital future" is ever going to happen. I'm excited as hell for Starlink but the hype of it being THE systemic solution likely exceeds the reality.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Please. I live in rural Wales (my house is far left)







Even here we have Fibre and a pretty good 4G signal (5G still a dream)). Forget playing games, even making games now need the internet since so many of the major Western studios work from home.
Speaking of work, unless you got an email address and online you can't even apply for a new job or a different role with my employer (NHS) The Division was a smash hit much like Destiny and many other games that need online. Remind us again how many players have Fortnite got again?

So please, the world is going digital like it or not.

Nice place you live in, but seems like you didn't read carefully what I wrote. I'm fully digital here since 2014 anyway, but there are occasions and sometimes countries that would benefit from more offline-friendly games as we're just talking about 220M consoles gamers out of 7B population. That's why mobile gaming is more popular as some in play when they get access to internet, and for poor families it can mean public internet.
 

Bo_Hazem

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We're in rural Pacific Northwest US. I wouldn't move back to the city if a gun was put to my head. But, internet speeds out here in the "boonies" are bad enough to make us at least fleetingly consider it. 😉

So, for us, what Starlink promises is quite literally both a way to save our country lifestyle and our sanity. Signed up immediately and we're supposed to have Starlink available in our area "mid to late 2021". Our family is almost irrationally excited about this possibility. But I am cautioning everyone not to get their hopes up. Early reports of Starlink performance are mostly solid, but there are many challenges/hurdles they still need to clear to provide seamless connections with close to zero downtime.

For US, though, Starlink is a potential game changer. The cost isn't an issue. We pay more than twice as much per month for two separate Wi-Max connections - a decent 25mbps for $130/month that is pretty consistent & a shitty 10mbps setup from a competitor for $115/month (that only really delivers 5-8 most of the time). I feel we have to keep them both bc the nature of Wi-Max in the country is unreliable so if one tower is down the idea is the other will be up.

So, theoretically, Starlink could allow us to ditch both of those and cut our monthly cost from $245/month for a combined 42mbps to $99/monthn for 100+mbps. If Starlink turns out to be highly reliable this is what we'll do. But I'm counting on needing to keep the 25mbps Wi-Max as a "backup" for at least the first 6-12 months while Starlink works out all the kinks and gets more satellites into orbit.

Having said all that, I don't think Starlink is ever going to be the be all, end all solution for slow internet. It's at best going to end up a nice complementary service to better terrestrial systems that will ultimately need to be widely expanded at great cost if the "all digital future" is ever going to happen. I'm excited as hell for Starlink but the hype of it being THE systemic solution likely exceeds the reality.

Great example here, but I honestly view projects like Starlink much more crucial than just entertainment and usual internet usage. This access could mean that some hikers got injured in a very bad spot with no cellular access can still call for emergency, send their locations via google maps and get help. It can be a life saving service, like even lost on the sea as well. Some people here die in the Empty Quarter desert as well, this would be massive and you don't have to purchase expensive satellite cellphones for such emergency calls.

I'm very excited for this Starlink and similar services around the globe, it could provide internet access in poorer countries as well that can't afford the infrastructure costs.
 
Aug 5, 2009
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Nice place you live in, but seems like you didn't read carefully what I wrote. I'm fully digital here since 2014 anyway, but there are occasions and sometimes countries that would benefit from more offline-friendly games as we're just talking about 220M consoles gamers out of 7B population. That's why mobile gaming is more popular as some in play when they get access to internet, and for poor families it can mean public internet.
There are countries without electricity 24 hours a day, countries without a government. For billions of people, forget about worrying if a console is offline or online, they have far more pressing issues to worry about like staying alive for the day.
Let's be sensible and a little real about it, most gamers in the western world have access either to the internet or mobile phone network and almost everyone buying a new console today, one of the very 1st moves they make is to set up and connect their brand new consoles to their WI-FI

To make out otherwise is just fanboy nonsense and silly point scoring. More so from ones who on another day praise the 60 FPS online patch for Last Of Us 2 ;)
 
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Bo_Hazem

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There are countries without electricity 24 hours a day, countries without a government. For billions of people, forget about worrying if a console is offline or online, they have far more pressing issues to worry about like staying alive for the day.
Let's be sensible and a little real about it, most gamers in the western world have access either to the internet or mobile phone network and almost everyone buying a new console today, one of the very 1st moves they make is to set up and connect their brand new consoles to their WI-FI

To make out otherwise is just fanboy nonsense and silly point scoring. More so from ones who on another day praise the 60 FPS online patch for Last Of Us 2 ;)

Maybe take it here then:

 
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I'm surprised by the "go digital / lol physical is dead" sentiment in this thread. I thought NeoGAF was historically on the other side of that issue, just like DRM, because it's an older gamer culture here that doesn't appreciate the corporate "games as a service" / "pay to license" future.
 

Soodanim

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There are countries without electricity 24 hours a day, countries without a government. For billions of people, forget about worrying if a console is offline or online, they have far more pressing issues to worry about like staying alive for the day.
Let's be sensible and a little real about it, most gamers in the western world have access either to the internet or mobile phone network and almost everyone buying a new console today, one of the very 1st moves they make is to set up and connect their brand new consoles to their WI-FI

To make out otherwise is just fanboy nonsense and silly point scoring. More so from ones who on another day praise the 60 FPS online patch for Last Of Us 2 ;)
None of this changes the fact that you should be able to buy a disc, install the game, and play it. There's a very consumer unfriendly forced dependence that you're ignoring in favour of talking about people who aren't relevant to the discussion. If you want to make a thread about those people, go make one. This thread is about this issue, a discussion started by someone to whom the installation problems do matter even if they aren't big enough of a problem as to meet your requirements.
 
Aug 5, 2009
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None of this changes the fact that you should be able to buy a disc, install the game, and play it. There's a very consumer unfriendly forced dependence that you're ignoring in favour of talking about people who aren't relevant to the discussion. If you want to make a thread about those people, go make one. This thread is about this issue, a discussion started by someone to whom the installation problems do matter even if they aren't big enough of a problem as to meet your requirements.
What next a gaming forum is very unfriendly because you need to be online. I don't know how you got the next-gen systems or most of the games during the pandemic, but for most, it was via online. The UK had to teach all the school kids via online for most of last year, the food shop done via online, staying in contact with the family via handled online, working for home via online and most games last year, games also had to de developed with staff in the home, yep via online


Still online is a massive barrier to consoles in 2021 :messenger_smirking:
 
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Soodanim

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What next a gaming forum is very unfriendly because you need to be online. I don't know how you got the next-gen systems or most of the games during the pandemic, but for most, it was via Online online.The UK had to teach all the school kids via online for most of last year, the food shop via online, staying in contact with the family via online, worked for home via online and most games last year also had to de developed with staff in the home.


Still online is a massive barrier to consoles in 2021 :messenger_smirking:
My Virgin media connection cuts out several times a day, not to mention whole areas having outages that take however long to fix. I’m not that confident in the permanence of internet connections.

There’s also the future argument, where people that want to collect games could easily be an a position where their bought and paid for games aren’t playable in the entirely likely circumstance that the games cannot be verified.

Essentially what you’re saying is fine in the ideal world where everything is always online and always will be. But others are saying that isn’t the case.
 
Aug 5, 2009
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My Virgin media connection cuts out several times a day, not to mention whole areas having outages that take however long to fix. I’m not that confident in the permanence of internet connections.

There’s also the future argument, where people that want to collect games could easily be an a position where their bought and paid for games aren’t playable in the entirely likely circumstance that the games cannot be verified.

Essentially what you’re saying is fine in the ideal world where everything is always online and always will be. But others are saying that isn’t the case.
We can all give sob stories. I can't even get Virgin Media in my neck of the woods, never mind get a Freeview signal for standard TV (in my area you need satellite) excetions to the rule.
Even in 2005 with the launch of 360 online bashings would be wearing thin but now in 2021 when the Government advice was to work, educate, shop, even speak to your GP all from home over the network
It's beyond silly...
 
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Soodanim

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We can all give sob stories. I can't even get Virgin Media in my neck of the woods, never mind get a Freeview signal for standard TV (in my area you need satellite) excetions to the rule.
Even in 2005 with the launch of 360 online bashings would be wearing thin but now in 2021 when the Government advice was to work, educate, shop, even speak to your GP all from home over the network
It's beyond silly...
Call something a sob story to dismiss it, very smart.

What about the services run by for-profit companies that get shut down when they no longer benefit from it? Do those bought and paid for games still work because you did an e-consult, or do the discs become useless to everyone that wants to keep theirs in their collection? It’s not unreasonable to want to have a guarantee that what you paid for can continue to be used.

Just because you are in a situation where you aren’t affected by it, it doesn’t mean that others aren’t or won’t be. You’ve even said it yourself: even if it is 6 years down the line it will happen.
 
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Call something a sob story to dismiss it, very smart.
In 2021 almost every gamer in a half-decent country will have the internet, mobile or in most cases both and in the age of covid internet is now how many people not only have shopped, talked to their GP, stayed in contact with family members, educated their kids and more and more did their day job. In short, it's a way of life. A worry is to be had some 6 years down the line when console manufacturers move on and discontinue their console. When that day comes trying to prove you actually own a legit copy of the game goes out the window and hopefully you would be able to play your games with no issues with DRM

But keep on posting on a forum while worrying over the internet
 
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LiquidMetal14

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I sympathize for the fact that internet providers still have bandwidth caps and not all of us can afford or have access to the highest speed internet.

It used to be like this for me for years and just maybe about 4 or 5 months ago I just bit the bullet and got the unlimited tier with Xfinity.

And in case you are wondering, I only have them because that's all that there is around my area so I have the gigabit internet and I can't complain on that front but competition wouldn't hurt anything.

I look at other providers and see how fiber is coming along and you can gigabit up and down where Comcast you may get 40MB at most.

That being said that install process does sound like a pain but like most other people I am mostly digital these days except for a few select PS5 titles.
 

Soodanim

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In 2021 almost every gamer in a half-decent country will have the internet, mobile or in most cases both and in the age of covid internet is now how many people not only have shopped, talked to their GP, stayed in contact with family members, educated their kids and more and more did their day job. In short, it's a way of life. A worry is to be had some 6 years down the line when console manufacturers move on and discontinue their console. When that day comes trying to prove you actually own a legit copy of the game goes out the window and hopefully you would be able to play your games with no issues with DRM

But keep on posting on a forum while worrying over the internet
“I agree with you but I’m still going to end with a statement that doesn’t actually say anything to try and prove some sort of point”
 
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“I agree with you but I’m still going to end with a statement that doesn’t actually say anything to try and prove some sort of point”
It's a worry to have when the current gen of consoles is discontinued like in 6 years time, it's not an issue for today When consoles are discontinued I hope the likes of MS and developers then drop the need to check if the game is legit or not and move DRM to the successor console. If they don't, they deserve to get bashed to high heaven for it.
 
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JLB

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Sigh, once again I am telling you that with my internet speed it would take like 8-10 hours to download 90GB. Sadly a 50Mbit connection is the fastest my provider can offer in the "third-world" area I live, aka Germany's 9th biggest city.
then thread title would be “Mass Effect Legendary Edition made me just realize what a broken mess are the internet providers in Germany”
 
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This thread makes me love the Switch even more, to be honest. We have a zip-case full of our little plastic games which could be fired up on a new switch out of the box in a remote corner of Antarctica in the year 2500 and still work.