Naruto said:
This is my post. You stole my post! :lol These are my exact sentiments.
Though I guess I've discovered, through this thread (thanks to Matt's rightful but way overdone bitching
including a statement that sounds like a certain mod
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Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Matt calls out IGN... Zelda related.
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This is my post. You stole my post! :lol These are my exact sentiments.
Though I guess I've discovered, through this thread (thanks to Matt's rightful but way overdone bitching
deathkiller
Member
I played both Okami and Zelda and I liked more Okami. Zelda was technically better because the developers put more time/effort in it but that doesn't make it automatically GOTY. I feel that Okami was more original and had far better story and for me that is important.
Mmm, delicious bitter tears.
But oh well Matt, console yourself in the fact that you'll see 20 more slightly improved Zelda games in your lifetime, but we we may never again see another Okami or something that pushes the visual boundries and characterisation in-game ever again! WHO IS THE REAL WINNER NOW.
But oh well Matt, console yourself in the fact that you'll see 20 more slightly improved Zelda games in your lifetime, but we we may never again see another Okami or something that pushes the visual boundries and characterisation in-game ever again! WHO IS THE REAL WINNER NOW.
Kevtones said:
oops wait, no, can't let this one slide! Someone earlier listed loads of reasons as to why they preferred Okami, and theyre pretty much the same for me.
- The story in Okami far exceed's the tired legend of Link. TP started out good introducing the village characters, but halfway through the game the plotlines surrounding them turn to entropy and really icky nonsense like random conveniant amnesia. In Okami the characters play important roles all the way through, its written very very well. Zelda fans will say "but its never been about the story!" but yeah, say goodbye to one factor many people judge a game on.
- The brush techniques in Okami just felt very new. It was a fantastic game design idea, and you'd be hard pressed saying going to the menu and applying the hookshot to a button and exiting the menu to use it is better than the fluidity of drawing a vine from a hookflower to Ammy and woosh, off you go.
- Okami didn't needless abandon its strengths periodically by turning the character into a gimped 'otherself' for plot reasons. It played on its own strengths from beginning to end, and its curious why Nintendo always has to seemingly sabotage its own games with poorly conceived 'other versions'.
- The newness. Amusingly Matt says in his little teary outburst that Okami will just be replaced by the next visually striking game, when one could simply say "see you next Zelda". Not knowing the characters, the villains and the story structure in Okami made it feel completely new. It was building its own world and character straight from the start, whereas in Zelda you know 50% of the cast already, and that 'Link doesnt have a character because its tradition'.
- Music. Only nostalgia allows the Zelda themes in midi form be suggested better than a fully orchestrated Soundtrack, completely fitting and beautiful for the games style.
- The structure of the game in Okami was far better planned out. In Zelda games it simply becomes a case of "going to the next dungeon just because" out of 'tradition', but once again for those not clouded by nostalgia, tradition can only bring you so far. In Okami by the end you've completely changed the gameworld, visually and character-wise if you've helped everyone else out, which then all links into the final cutscene of worldwide support for the hero. In Zelda, its
lol looks like I have to fight Ganon again! the end
But yeah, I could go on all day. TP has better dungeons because thats all it does from each iteration to the next, improve dungeons. Okami went the whole hog and did everything else better.
Stormbringer
Member
Eh, I guess that "clouded by nostalgia" "is the new "fanboy !" to explain the fact that other people particularly appreciated a certain game.
Stormbringer said:
Nope, there is genuinely stuff that TP does better definitely. But often when you bring up the case of story, tedious menu navigation, main character speechless and characterless, and midi as music and get "but thats tradition" back, it certainly doesnt make it a better game rather that its 'allowed' to get away with more because of the attatchment people have to the series. But nice try dispelling me with the whole "lol fanboys" argument. *digs heels in*
buckfutter
Member
Maybe so, but conversely the worst part about lots more Zelda is more outbursts like Matt's.AniHawk said:
Does that include endlessly feeding animals and circling trees or not?
The wolf parts of twilight princess were great. Being able to explore new areas all by yourself in a pseudo-state was good.
Okami's music and visuals are top notch though. Just too many holes in the design.
I suppose that is one way to spin 3 dungeons and tripple reuse of one of the few bosses into something positive.
Not to mention that okami's overworld design was done by a little script spreading evenly spaced animals to feed, trees to circle, enemies to fight, gates to clear and jugs to break on it
Magicpaint
Member
AniHawk said:
QFT.
Stormbringer
Member
Luckett_X said:
Personally, I found the story to be pretty enjoyable, I didn't find the menu navigation to be tedious, I appreciated the fact that the main character was speechless, and I loved the hell out of the soundtrack, despite it being MIDI. Didn't you think that this was simply because of...I don't know...my usual tastes, and not because I was under the influence of whatever mysterious "nostalgia cloud" which would modify my opinion of a certain game despite my tastes ? I, and a big bunch of people, have different tastes than you, so now what ? Are you just going to try to convince us that we are objectively wrong and that we are just a bunch of nostalgic, out-of-the-loop gamers unable to have a good enough opinion on what is a good adventure game when confronted to a certain game ? Come on...
[edit] See, I'm absolutely not denying that as a Zelda fan, there was always this bit of nostalgia that I was feeling when I was playing this game. However, I definitely don't think that this was that feeling that made me appreciate these same so called "facts" that you call "flaws". I just...like this game for what it is, just like I appreciated other original games despite certain particularities that some may have disliked, but that personally appreciated. And I don't think that TP is a perfect game either, it even has a bunch of particularities that I consider flaws...
We both just don't have the same opinion of this game, I guess. Yes, my conclusion is as simple as that.
MasterMFauli
Banned
White Man said:
But he´s right.
Frankly, it´s sad, when Nintendo´s 4-year-development-game, made of pure heart, blood and sould of EAD, gets over-voted by biased editors, AND all that because of Okami, an action-.adventure, that clearly doesnt have the deep and polish of TP. I, too, would have preferred to win GoW in that matter.
but of course it´s easier to paly down Matt as being a whiny fanboy...it´s always Nintendo´s and their fan´s fault, i know....it´s been 10 years that way, and seemingly it wont change.
MasterMFauli
Banned
Luckett_X said:
Except that TP´s story wasnt about the legend of Link, or Zelda.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I'm sure most of the editors didn't play Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday, one of the best games of the year, and they deserve a sound raping as a result, but you don't see anyone whining about that, do you?
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
AniHawk said:
Yes
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
[1] listen to ign's podcast
[2] try and care about this
[3] fail
[2] try and care about this
[3] fail
I don't really care who wins, so my only question is that if he himself ever reviewed a game without playing it all the way through, if he ever dismissed a game after just spending a short time playing, then it totally invalidate his rant, and makes him a hypocrite.
I think as gamers we have all done that at one point or another, and for someone who's been in the industry for this long, played more games than the majority of us, and not to be guilty of the exact same thing he's accusing others of, is pretty farfetched.
I think as gamers we have all done that at one point or another, and for someone who's been in the industry for this long, played more games than the majority of us, and not to be guilty of the exact same thing he's accusing others of, is pretty farfetched.
brandonh83
Banned
I think Okami is great and it's one of the best games I've ever played, but for me it's nowhere near Twilight Princess. I think Okami is more unique and original, but that's about it. Still, if I were to score the two games, Twilight Princess' score wouldn't be much higher. While I think a lot of Okami stands up to Twilight Princess in its own ways, I think about other things and gameplay designs/elements in Twilight Princess and it sorta makes Okami pale in comparison.
That said, they're both still infinitely better than Gears of War.
Oh and for the soundtrack discussion folks here, this is a disclaimer when you try to access The Hylia website:
I personally think Twilight Princess has the best Zelda soundtrack since A Link to the Past. The quality could have been better, I admit, but I think they're some of the best compositions in a Nintendo game.
That said, they're both still infinitely better than Gears of War.
^^^one man's opinion, no need for hatin'!
Oh and for the soundtrack discussion folks here, this is a disclaimer when you try to access The Hylia website:
I personally think Twilight Princess has the best Zelda soundtrack since A Link to the Past. The quality could have been better, I admit, but I think they're some of the best compositions in a Nintendo game.
thefro said:
I'm not here to argue the existence of a conspiracy against Zelda (or Nintendo games in general), only that Matt is hardly the person qualified to call people out for something he himself is probably guilty of, and thus his rant would be considered hypocritical and unprofessional. As far as I understood he is questioning the integrity of those that participated in the selection, but is he also blameless of the same accusation? Like I said, probably not.
What a predictable response. :lol
Posting this here not to 'defend' Matt, but because the usual suspects are all here.
Do you people do anything besides try to insult or raise the ire of other people by using words like 'babies' and 'little' and 'crying'? Hard to believe that people keep pretending to laugh at something so obvious and tired just because they hold the same point of view but can't be bothered to articulate it.
You anti-Nintendo fanboys are just as bad as the worst Nintendo fanboys, but you keep propping each other up because you've all somehow decided it's cool to make fun/insult other people with your whiny rants, rather than naively offering the whiny rant by itself. As if treating people like dirt (even if you disagree with them or if, god forbid, they make a silly mistake) is a wonderful thing.
Serious business, guys. Keep hurling those insults! Hopefully you make people feel bad about themselves. That's the goal, isn't it?
Posting this here not to 'defend' Matt, but because the usual suspects are all here.
Do you people do anything besides try to insult or raise the ire of other people by using words like 'babies' and 'little' and 'crying'? Hard to believe that people keep pretending to laugh at something so obvious and tired just because they hold the same point of view but can't be bothered to articulate it.
You anti-Nintendo fanboys are just as bad as the worst Nintendo fanboys, but you keep propping each other up because you've all somehow decided it's cool to make fun/insult other people with your whiny rants, rather than naively offering the whiny rant by itself. As if treating people like dirt (even if you disagree with them or if, god forbid, they make a silly mistake) is a wonderful thing.
Serious business, guys. Keep hurling those insults! Hopefully you make people feel bad about themselves. That's the goal, isn't it?
brandonh83
Banned
Kittonwy said:
I went back to Okami after beating the Wii version of Zelda, and I just don't agree. But that's okay, I mean we're all friends here.
Okami does have good control though.psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I donty get how anyone coudl say that. I would say that Zelda was as good as OoT, but it was still a brilliant game and it was very enjoyable, but the music in the game was a disappointment. Midna's desperate hour was the one track that I thought was brilliant. That track is one of the best pieces of music Ive heard in any game, but the rest of the soundtracks were dull. The OoT soundtrack is so much better than TP's soundtrack. This is definately one of my biggest problems with zelda. Music is so imnportant because it adds atmosphere. Zelda had some epic scenery, buty it didnt have the music to compliment it. If the music in TP had been better, then I would have enjoyed the game a lot more.brandonh83 said:
Magicpaint
Member
psycho_snake said:
People say so because TP's soundtrack is indeed fantastic. Music is subjective, but TP instead of going for short, memorable themes focused more on ambiance this time around and it really complimented many of the scenery and evoked mood and atmosphere. That's why people love it. The soundtrack is varied, too and is in no way dull.
brandonh83
Banned
Tracks that stood out to me, in addition to the piano piece you mentioned; and I also won't include remixes or older tunes:
-Hyrule Field (especially when it goes into that new theme later on, I can't explain it better than that but it's awesome)
-Hyrule Field night time music... just simply awesome and neat
-Boss music (I know some bosses have their own track like the 5th one, but there is a recurring boss theme that I love)
-Mini-boss music
-5th dungeon
-7th dungeon (maybe it doesn't stand out to you but I thought it was VERY ethereal and atmospheric)
-8th dungeon location
-final boss track(s)
-ogre jousting sequence on bridge
This is all just off the top of my head. When The Hylia gets back up and running tomorrow with all 200+ tracks, I can make a better list. I just know this game had amazing music.
-Hyrule Field (especially when it goes into that new theme later on, I can't explain it better than that but it's awesome)
-Hyrule Field night time music... just simply awesome and neat
-Boss music (I know some bosses have their own track like the 5th one, but there is a recurring boss theme that I love)
-Mini-boss music
-5th dungeon
-7th dungeon (maybe it doesn't stand out to you but I thought it was VERY ethereal and atmospheric)
-8th dungeon location
-final boss track(s)
-ogre jousting sequence on bridge
This is all just off the top of my head. When The Hylia gets back up and running tomorrow with all 200+ tracks, I can make a better list. I just know this game had amazing music.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I dont agree with that at all. Okami had some very good gameplay. The paintbursh was a really unique item and weapon. The only problem with Okami is that its a bit too easy. Usually Capcom are very good at making games challenging, but they certainly made Okami too easy. Zelda's gameplay is better, but Okami's gameplay isnt laughable compared to Zelda, thats just a big over exaggeration.Naruto said:
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Thats not the way I felt about it. Id rather have short, emeorable themes like those in OoT because they added more atmosphere. In TP I loved going around hyrule on Epona. At times I would rather have gone to my next location with epona instead of warping because it was so much fun, but the hyrule filed music wasnt good to listen to. The hyrule field music from ooT works so much better creating a good atmosphere. Its the same with the dungeon music; the OoT soundtrack was so much better at creating a special atmosphere.Magicpaint said:
At least Amaterasu runs faster than Link climbs. Slow bitch.
I loved Zelda TP and consider it probably the best game created (although it is probably an untenable position in my mind the more I consider the game's faults), but the Okami hate on this page in particular is extremely exaggerated for obvious reasons.
I loved Zelda TP and consider it probably the best game created (although it is probably an untenable position in my mind the more I consider the game's faults), but the Okami hate on this page in particular is extremely exaggerated for obvious reasons.
brandonh83
Banned
My only problem with the music is this "dynamic" crap they've been doing. Some people like it but like we were discussing in the official topic, I'm not a fan of it changing to "uh oh enemy approaching" music.
I think Twilight Princess has the best music of any of the Zelda games. The only problem is there's so many good tracks for each little different area that it's hard to remember them all.
Plus you have a ton of the old themes remixed/revisited on top of that, like in Wind Waker.
Plus you have a ton of the old themes remixed/revisited on top of that, like in Wind Waker.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
What do you mean by that?brandonh83 said:
Zelda was almost a perfect experience for me. The only major problem was the music. If TP had the OoT soundtrack, then the game would have been faultless.
Magicpaint
Member
psycho_snake said:
I actually agree with you about dungeon music. Nothing comes close to those of OoT's in the entire series.
But as to OoT's soundtrack adding more atmosphere? No way. Short memorable themes are good, but when much of your soundtrack comprises of those, then that doesn't make for a rich soundtrack. TP on the other hand knows when to go for certain approaches and overall is just a much more intelligently done soundtrack.
brandonh83
Banned
psycho_snake said:
OOT actually had one of the weaker OST's IMO. I guess we just have much different taste. That's cool though.
By dynamic music I mean, when an enemy comes at you the music changes to accompany this and it breaks into the (better, IMO) music that was previously playing.
Stormbringer
Member
brandonh83 said:
Yep, I also think that Zelda TP has the best soundtrack of the series. I'm just a fan of the ambient feel of the compositions (especially the dungeon tracks). I know that some would have hoped that the music would be more powerful, but personally, I really liked what they did here.
At first, I expected basically a OoT OST Deluxe, but I was pleasantly surprised by the variety or even sometimes the exotism of the tracks. It seems like they experimented a lot of different styles, and adapted them to the theme of the game. And it totally worked ! I love that ! Total props to Minegishi and Kondo for their, once again (see Majora's Mask fantastic OST), fabulous, and very clever work.
brandonh83
Banned
I'm not on very good terms with Majora's Mask--I even recently gave it another shot, and it still ****ing blows. But the music is pretty decent. :lol
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