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[Future]

Ugh, that is pretty fucking terrible.

I don't know if I would try to break that up or not though, sometimes breaking shit up like that leads to retaliation by more people.

The people in the vid were pretty young too. I remember seeing all kinds of fights when I was around high school. Never interfered. In fact, you tend to stare and watch just like this. Especially when girls are fighting. So I can understand why people just watched. At least the chick is ok

 

[mercenar1e]

I guess the thought is, what's the harm in recognizing a person the way they want to be recognized? Does it hurt you to refer to a Transgendered person in the manner in which they self-identify?

its the peoples choice and their business.. if they have family support and comfort then that's all they need but if i get asked for my opinion ill let them know regardless of whose heart is going to break

 

[SapientWolf]

To be fair, calling people who spout ignorance dipshits is a pretty typical response. Were we discussing any other type of minority in this thread I don't think you'd be seeing responses like this.

Anybody else watch the vid thinking....."Yea if I didn't know that was a tranny I'd hit it"?

Wow.

What are the good Samaritan laws like in a situation like this? What if you tried to gently stop the women from curb stomping the helpless victim and accidentally tiger uppercutted them for a one hit knockout? Would the law still be on your side?

 

[perfectnight]

Oh shit

this thread has come back from the dead.

To be fair, calling people who spout ignorance dipshits is a pretty typical response. Were we discussing any other type of minority in this thread I don't think you'd be seeing responses like this.

That is the issue. Attempting to place transgendered into the same category as say african americans minority-wise is foolish and counter productive. The amount of information and awareness in regards to transgendered peoples is miniscule relative to the information out there about other minorities. So to expect everyone you come across to be aware and open minded about it is expecting too much when we live in a society that has essentially kept that entire group behind some curtains like a dirty secret until relatively recently. It's the same issue I have when the gay community attempts to compare themselves to african americans. You are a different minority, with a different background and history. If you see yourself in the same light, you miss the fact that there is still an immense amount of work to be done in educating people before you can expect to weed out the people who are just ignorant from the people who are truly hateful and bigoted.

 

[scar tissue]

I always step in if someone is being mauled. Always.

"Hey, hey, she's had enough," is a universal principle.

this.
doesn't matter if the victim is man, woman, transgendered. same goes for the assailant.

 

[daffy]

Anybody else watch the vid thinking....."Yea if I didn't know that was a tranny I'd hit it"?

 

[mre]

Wow.

What are the good Samaritan laws like in a situation like this? What if you tried to gently stop the women from curb stomping the helpless victim and accidentally tiger uppercutted them for a one hit knockout? Would the law still be on your side?

Not a good Samaritan law per se, but most criminal self-defense statutes allow you use the same level of force to protect another's well being as you could legally use to protect your own, up to and including lethal force if you reasonably believe it was called for. Here's a snippet from Alabama's self-defense statute:

Section 13A-3-23

Use of force in defense of a person.

(a) A person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he or she may use a degree of force which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for the purpose. A person may use deadly physical force, and is legally presumed to be justified in using deadly physical force in self-defense or the defense of another person pursuant to subdivision (4), if the person reasonably believes that another person is:

(1) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force.

So if you thought the woman in the video was about to be curb-stomped, you would be able to utilize just about any means necessary to stop that from occurring.

Of course, civil law is a whole different ball game...

 

[Lucky Forward]

Rally planned to condemn McDonald's beating of transgender woman

The transgender community is organizing a rally outside a Baltimore County McDonald's Monday night to condemn the severe beating of a transgender woman at the fast-food restaurant.

 

[tiff]

That is the issue. Attempting to place transgendered into the same category as say african americans minority-wise is foolish and counter productive. The amount of information and awareness in regards to transgendered peoples is miniscule relative to the information out there about other minorities. So to expect everyone you come across to be aware and open minded about it is expecting too much when we live in a society that has essentially kept that entire group behind some curtains like a dirty secret until relatively recently. It's the same issue I have when the gay community attempts to compare themselves to african americans. You are a different minority, with a different background and history. If you see yourself in the same light, you miss the fact that there is still an immense amount of work to be done in educating people before you can expect to weed out the people who are just ignorant from the people who are truly hateful and bigoted.

I actually thought about adding something about understanding that difference in my post. I'm fully aware that ignorance about transgender issues is the norm in the Western world (or at least in America). My point is that it's hard to remain cordial when someone launches an attack on your identity, whether it be out of malice or genuine ignorance, and it's frustrating unlike ignorance of other groups, ignorance of the transgendered is so pervasive that the average person can't be expected to know better (or at least isn't expected to by many).

 

[Stellares]

Anybody else watch the vid thinking....."Yea if I didn't know that was a tranny I'd hit it"?

1. Don't use the word tranny

2. That statement was offensive and rude.

 

[scar tissue]

i'll just open up this can of worms:

why should a transgendered male person (=still has a dick) be allowed to go on the women's toilet?
can't quite wrap my head around this one

 

[lexi]

i'll just open up this can of worms:

why should a transgendered male person (=still has a dick) be allowed to go on the women's toilet?
can't quite wrap my head around this one

Transgendered people are not defined by their genitalia, nobody else is, why should they?

You would have someone who looks entirely female use the male restroom just because of her genitalia?

 

[CrocMother]

I hope we get vid of the rally!

To Scar Tissue: Going through life living as a woman then being forced to use the men's restroom with the appearance of a full on woman would be rather jarring to one's identity.

I personally don't care who uses what restroom so if it makes someone feel better it is a concession I would be more than happy to make.

In fact, I am a proponent of gender neutral bathrooms.

 

[Stellares]

i'll just open up this can of worms:

why should a transgendered male person (=still has a dick) be allowed to go on the women's toilet?
can't quite wrap my head around this one

She is not a transgendered male, she is a transgendered female. Calling her male is offensive and basically sounds like you are defining her by her genitals and not her mind.

Why does her genitals matter? She isn't showing them off in the bathroom.

 

[scar tissue]

Transgendered people are not defined by their genitalia. You would have someone who looks entirely female use the male restroom just because of her genitalia?

so if i dress up entirely female (and thus look entirely female), i can go to the ladies' toilet?
uh...

imo, the whole concept of gender separated toilets is stupid
a gay man could look at my dick at the urinal anyway, who cares if there's women there too?

 

[lexi]

so if i dress up entirely female (and thus look entirely female), i can go to the ladies' toilet?
uh...

Are you on Hormone Replacement Therapy? Nobody I interact with on a daily basis can tell I was born biologically male.

 

[scar tissue]

Why does her genitals matter? She isn't showing them off in the bathroom.

well, do my genitals not matter if i don't show them off?
so i can just walk into the ladies' room next time?

 

[Stellares]

so if i dress up entirely female (and thus look entirely female), i can go to the ladies' toilet?
uh...

imo, the whole concept of gender separated toilets is stupid anyway
a gay man can look at my dick at the urinal anyway, who cares if there's women there too?

You do not identify as female, you are a male. It would be inappropriate for you to go to a bathroom of the gender you do not identify as.
I sort of agree about the gendered bathrooms however.

 

[CrocMother]

well, do my genitals not matter if i don't show them off?
so i can just walk into the ladies' room next time?

No because you don't identify yourself as a woman. Just as with your sexuality, gender identity isn't something you can really choose.

If you dressed as a woman and went into a ladies restroom, you would be a voyeuristic crossdresser.

 

[scar tissue]

Are you on Hormone Replacement Therapy? Nobody I interact with on a daily basis can tell I was born biologically male.

i'm pretty sure it was your before/after picture that made me change my mind about transgendered people
if i may say so, you're really good looking and i wouldn't think that you were born male for a second

still, if you have a dick, you go to the men's urinal
everything else is a slippery slope

 

[Stellares]

still, if you have a dick, you go to the men's urinal
everything else is a slippery slope

Why? I can pee in a toilet just fine, thank you.

 

[scar tissue]

No because you don't identify yourself as a woman. Just as with your sexuality, gender identity isn't something you can really choose.

If you dressed as a woman and went into a ladies restroom, you would be a voyeuristic crossdresser.

yes, but the point is: how can other people know if i'm a voyeur or i actually see myself as a woman?
and when is the exact point i can switch toilet?
can i start going to the women's toilet the moment i decide i feel as a woman, but i still look like a man?
or do i have to start hormone therapy first?

Why? I can pee in a toilet just fine, thank you.

then go to the men's toilet
but you don't go to the women's toilet, that's just....weird

 

[mre]

so if i dress up entirely female (and thus look entirely female), i can go to the ladies' toilet?
uh...

imo, the whole concept of gender separated toilets is stupid
a gay man could look at my dick at the urinal anyway, who cares if there's women there too?

Fuck that. It's great to be a guy anytime I go to a public event, such as a concert or a sporting event. The women's line is always backed up while the guys line is practically nonexistant.

 

[Treefingers]

still, if you have a dick, you go to the men's urinal
everything else is a slippery slope

Please do expand on what this slippery slope entails

 

[lexi]

i'm pretty sure it was your before/after picture that made me change my mind about transgendered people
if i may say so, you're really good looking and i wouldn't think that you were born male for a second

still, if you have a dick, you go to the men's urinal
everything else is a slippery slope

See, siddx wants me to be nice and try to explain things calmly, but how can you say that and maintain you're being serious? Don't you realize how many problems that would create? I'd be constantly told that I'm the wrong restroom, what would I respond with? I'm expected to out myself to random strangers?

 

[CrocMother]

still, if you have a dick, you go to the men's urinal
everything else is a slippery slope

imo, the whole concept of gender separated toilets is stupid

You're confusing.

To make things even more confusing for you, you could identify yourself as a woman, be born a man and be sexually attracted to women.

 

[Stellares]

yes, but the point is: how can other people know if i'm a voyeur or i actually see myself as a woman?
can i start going to the women's toilet the moment i decide i feel as a woman, but i still look like a man?
or do i have to start hormone therapy first?

But your missing the whole point. You could dress up as a woman regardless of your gentials. Regulating the bathrooms to post-op women does not mean you can't slip in and be a voyeur.

And if voyeurism is a problem, why do you not want gendered bathrooms?

 

[Songbird]

still, if you have a dick, you go to the men's urinal
everything else is a slippery slope

Why is this a slippery slope? It doesn't affect you negatively unless you're into checking out the junk of the guy at the urinal next door. But even then... heh

Fuck that. It's great to be a guy anytime I go to a public event, such as a concert or a sporting event. The women's line is always backed up while the guys line is practically nonexistant.

The cynic in me agrees with you here!

 

[scar tissue]

Please do expand on what this slippery slope entails

the slippery slope is that anyone can go to any toilet
"yeah, i may LOOK like a man, but i feel like a woman"
c'mon...

edit: maybe not really a slippery slope, but surely you can see what i'm saying?

 

[siddx]

so if i dress up entirely female (and thus look entirely female), i can go to the ladies' toilet?
uh...

imo, the whole concept of gender separated toilets is stupid
a gay man could look at my dick at the urinal anyway, who cares if there's women there too?

A transgendered person is more than just someone who dresses up in the opposite sex's clothing. If you woke up one day with female genitalia but nothing else about you had changed, you'd still feel like a man, think like a man, and behave like a man. If you had to go to the bathroom, you'd enter the men's bathroom. Someone who is transgendered is, for instance, living with a penis and yet thinks, feels, and behaves like a woman. The genitalia is in fact the least important aspect of the issue. It's just meat and nerves and doesn't indicate anything other than if you stick it or get stuck during sex. The mental and emotional aspects is what truly define your sexuality.

 

[Songbird]

the slippery slope is that anyone can go to any toilet
"yeah, i may LOOK like a man, but i feel like a woman"
c'mon...

edit: maybe not really a slippery slope, but surely you can see what i'm saying?

No I really don't. A slippery slope suggests a negative outcome, decline of moral standards, etc.

 

[scar tissue]

A transgendered person is more than just someone who dresses up in the opposite sex's clothing. If you woke up one day with female genitalia but nothing else about you had changed, you'd still feel like a man, think like a man, and behave like a man. If you had to go to the bathroom, you'd enter the men's bathroom. Someone who is transgendered is, for instance, living with a penis and yet thinks, feels, and behaves like a woman. The genitalia is in fact the least important aspect of the issue. It's just meat and nerves and doesn't indicate anything other than if you stick it or get stuck during sex. The mental and emotional aspects is what truly define your sexuality.

yeah, i get that
i also get that someone who is far along the hormone therapy will go to the appropriate toilet

but what about someone who just came to terms with his inner struggle?
should he go to the women's toilet just because he FEELS like a woman?

No I really don't. A slippery slope suggests a negative outcome, decline of moral standards, etc.

yeah, that's not really what i meant
it's just a grey zone, that's what i'm trying to say

 

[lexi]

I would love a response to my earlier question, scar tissue.

but what about someone who just came to terms with his inner struggle?
should he go to the women's toilet just because he FEELS like a woman?

I'm going to speak on behalf of myself here. I went through this. I would never have dreamed of imposing on a women's space when I still looked obviously male. I guess you are right that there IS a slippery slope here, because some people are well into transition yet unfortunately, are not able to 'pass' as well as others. I don't know.

 

[Stellares]

People are going to find out pretty quickly if you are just in there to gawk.
And regardless, there is nothing currently stopping a male non-transgendered person who can disguise themselves as female from entering the bathroom. And its unlikely you'd be concerned about the reverse of women entering mens bathrooms.

 

[scar tissue]

And its unlikely you'd be concerned about the reverse of women entering mens bathrooms.

actually, i've got that one all the time
it kinda bugs me that i'd be called a pervert if i went to their toilet but them gawking at me standing at the urinal is A-OK, tbh

See, siddx wants me to be nice and try to explain things calmly, but how can you say that and maintain you're being serious? Don't you realize how many problems that would create? I'd be constantly told that I'm the wrong restroom, what would I respond with? I'm expected to out myself to random strangers?

yeah, didn't think that one through...it's pretty late over here and i've been awake for about 19 hours
sorry, didn't mean to offend you

I'm going to speak on behalf of myself here. I went through this. I would never have dreamed of imposing on a women's space when I still looked obviously male. I guess you are right that there IS a slippery slope here, because some people are well into transition yet unfortunately, are not able to 'pass' as well as others. I don't know.

thanks, good to see i'm not the only one seeing it

 

[Treefingers]

the slippery slope is that anyone can go to any toilet
"yeah, i may LOOK like a man, but i feel like a woman"
c'mon...

edit: maybe not really a slippery slope, but surely you can see what i'm saying?

But any guy can just dress up as a woman and go into the women's restroom. Anyone can already go into any toilet.

 

[How About No]

To make things even more confusing for you, you could identify yourself as a woman, be born a man and be sexually attracted to women.

This makes the best porn.

 

[The Technomancer]

Why do we have separate toilets? If its just social stigma, then theres the possibility of an argument against it.

 

[CrocMother]

yeah, i get that
i also get that someone who is far along the hormone therapy will go to the appropriate toilet

but what about someone who just came to terms with his inner struggle?
should he go to the women's toilet just because he FEELS like a woman?

In a time where we have gender binary bathrooms, if you were dressed completely male you would not be able to use a woman's bathroom. Should you be able to? Maybe, but social conventions make that impossible in today's day and age.

 

[scar tissue]

This makes the best porn.

How About No
Member
(Today, 03:27 AM)

 

[MIMIC]

Why do we have separate toilets? If its just social stigma, then theres the possibility of an argument against it.

Why do we wear clothes?

 

[scar tissue]

Why do we have separate toilets? If its just social stigma, then theres the possibility of an argument against it.

yes, it's stupid and stems from a heteronormative society
same with separate showers/locker rooms
why do gay guys get to see me naked at the gym but i don't get to see any naked women?
gay people have all the fun, fuck that...

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Why do we have separate toilets? If its just social stigma, then theres the possibility of an argument against it.

Cuz women take too goddamn long in the bathroom.

Plus, not interested in smelling fem-farts.

 

[CrocMother]

There actually are places that have gender neutral bathrooms.

My friend at Vassar has a gender neutral hallway, bathroom and shower in his dorm.

 

[scar tissue]

Why do we wear clothes?

protection against heat, cold, UV radiation, dirt,...
imagine sitting in public transportation, naked
gross...

There actually are places that have gender neutral bathrooms.

My friend at Vassar has a gender neutral hallway, bathroom and shower in his dorm.

seriously?
that is pretty great
less segregation = always better

 

[The Technomancer]

There actually are places that have gender neutral bathrooms.

My friend at Vassar has a gender neutral hallway, bathroom and shower in his dorm.

Unfortunately given the naturally "perverted" nature of, lets be honest, a lot of people of both sexes, I can't see that ending well on a broad scale.

Shame really.

 

[SapientWolf]

still, if you have a dick, you go to the men's urinal
everything else is a slippery slope

That would be incredibly unsafe for some people. They don't put pictures of genitals on the bathroom door anyway.

I guess you could be a dick about dicks, but there's no point in going out of your way to make life even more sucky for another person who's just trying to feel comfortable in their own skin. You don't have to like everybody but everyone deserves their human dignity, and politeness costs nothing.

 

[scar tissue]

Unfortunately given the naturally "perverted" nature of, lets be honest, a lot of people of both sexes, I can't see that ending well on a broad scale.

Shame really.

i don't see how heterosexual people are more voyeuristic than gay people, who already have the chance to gawk

That would be incredibly unsafe for some people. They don't put pictures of genitals in the bathroom picture anyway.

I guess you could be a dick about dicks, but there's no point in going out of your way to make life even more sucky for another person who's just trying to feel comfortable in their own skin. You don't have to like everybody but everyone deserves their human dignity, and politeness costs nothing.

yeah, you've already convinced me guys

 

[MIMIC]

protection against heat, cold, UV radiation, dirt,...
imagine sitting in public transportation, naked
gross...

Those are the only reasons we wear clothes?

EDIT: I'm just passing through this thread and I really hope no one takes my posts too seriously

 

[mre]

Why do we have separate toilets? If its just social stigma, then theres the possibility of an argument against it.

Speaking as a father of two girls (who are still young enough at this point to have to be accompanied into the restrooms), I'm glad that there are separate toilets. When my daughters get to be a little bit older to the point where they can go into the restroom by themselves and do their business, I know that I'll be more comfortable knowing that they're going into a bathroom reserved only for females. It's probably a slightly irrational fear, but I'm more comfortable with them being around strange women than I would be around strange men. If the bathroom were unisex, then I imagine that I will still feel the need to accompany them into the restroom (rather than walking them to the door) for a much longer period of time than I will be with the current set up.

And to speak slightly on what Scar Tissue was talking about, if I saw a person who outwardly looked like a guy attempting to go into the woman's restroom where my daughter currently was, I would probably follow them in there just to make sure that my kid is safe. It is one thing once a transgendered female has reached the point where she is publicly holding herself out in public to be a woman, but at any point before that I would be uncomfortable trusting that person to be in a public bathroom with my child, the same as I would be if a male walked into it. [<== this sentence obviously applies to strangers and not every male or transgendered female]