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[teh_pwn]

Whoa lots of banned people posting in this thread!
Are all those bans from this thread?

I would assume so. Most of them were off saying ignorant things about trans people. But yeah, it's a blood bath. I don't remember banned names being gray, so maybe it's more noticeable.

 

[samus i am]

popcorn.gif

I predict at least three bannings in this thread.

So was I right?

 

[Gaborn]

So was I right?

I believe we're up to 4 now. So, yeah.

 

[samus i am]

I believe we're up to 4 now. So, yeah.

I am making light of the situation, but it really is sad. My heart goes out to anyone that is a victim of intolerant assholes.

 

[Dead Man]

That is the issue. Attempting to place transgendered into the same category as say african americans minority-wise is foolish and counter productive. The amount of information and awareness in regards to transgendered peoples is miniscule relative to the information out there about other minorities. So to expect everyone you come across to be aware and open minded about it is expecting too much when we live in a society that has essentially kept that entire group behind some curtains like a dirty secret until relatively recently. It's the same issue I have when the gay community attempts to compare themselves to african americans. You are a different minority, with a different background and history. If you see yourself in the same light, you miss the fact that there is still an immense amount of work to be done in educating people before you can expect to weed out the people who are just ignorant from the people who are truly hateful and bigoted.

I can't believe you just did that and the thread didn't explode.

 

[Gaborn]

I can't believe you just did that and the thread didn't explode.

Why bother playing siddx's oppression Olympics?

 

[CrocMother]

I agree that people are more sympathetic to those that they know personally, and most people don't know a trans person.

They lack motivation to not be ignorant.

 

[siddx]

I can't believe you just did that and the thread didn't explode.

I dont' see why it would. It's not controversial or inflammatory, its fact. Different minority groups, different situations, different needs, different battles. It doesn't demean or reduce the importance of any one minority group over another, it just points out that every group is different and therefor should stop comparing themselves to each other and focus on the unique battle they have to face to gain the acceptance they deserve.

 

[Stellares]

The problem is all the same though. Bigoted thinking based on prejudice and ignorance.

 

[Dead Man]

I dont' see why it would. It's not controversial or inflammatory, its fact. Different minority groups, different situations, different needs, different battles. It doesn't demean or reduce the importance of any one minority group over another, it just points out that every group is different and therefor should stop comparing themselves to each other and focus on the unique battle they have to face to gain the acceptance they deserve.

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion that people need more education on trans issues, but normally when someone makes the comparison between any minority and black americans,. the thread goes apeshit. I do disagree with a couple of your premises, but for the sake of avoiding thread destruction, I'll just repeat that I agree with your conclusion that more education is needed!

 

[CrocMother]

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion that people need more education on trans issues, but normally when someone makes the comparison between any minority and black americans,. the thread goes apeshit. I do disagree with a couple of your premises, but for the sake of avoiding thread destruction, I'll just repeat that I agree with your conclusion that more education is needed!

I can tell you that this class I am taking at Uni on Trans history has been one of the most informative I have ever taken. I went from being completely ignorant to being able to help other people understand.

 

[Dead Man]

Why bother playing siddx's oppression Olympics?

No, I'm glad no one did. Especially since it was not a trans or gay person that brought up the comparison (I presume anyway, sorry if I have presumed incorrectly siddx).

I can tell you that this class I am taking at Uni on Trans history has been one of the most informative I have ever taken. I went from being completely ignorant to being able to help other people understand.

Things like this are always good to hear!

 

[siddx]

Why bother playing siddx's oppression Olympics?

I don't even know what it means but it smells like more Gaborn fuckery.

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion that people need more education on trans issues, but normally when someone makes the comparison between any minority and black americans,. the thread goes apeshit. I do disagree with a couple of your premises, but for the sake of avoiding thread destruction, I'll just repeat that I agree with your conclusion that more education is needed!

But thats my point. Comparisons to other minorities' struggles muddles the larger issue. Equality, tolerance, and rights. The ignorance towards transgendered members of society is different in content and reason from the ignorance towards blacks or gays or jews or women or mexicans and so and so on. The stereotypes are different, the fear is different, the reasons people act like hateful shits towards those peoples are different. There needs to be a clearer focus on what exact misinformation and lack of information is out there and address that so we can educate and eradicate specific stereotypes and prejudices.

I really don't see the issue here. I am not saying in any way that someone's struggle is any less significant than another's, just that it's different in the details. That is logical and obvious to me, unless someone is purposefully trying to mangle those words to make it appear like a negative statement (cough*gaborn*cough) there should be no reason for it to create thread destruction.

 

[BloodySinner]

I would assume so. Most of them were off saying ignorant things about trans people. But yeah, it's a blood bath. I don't remember banned names being gray, so maybe it's more noticeable.

No. The bans were because someone got personally offended. That's how NeoGAF works.

 

[Arozay]

Hmm, after careful consideration...

 

[Neuromancer]

3 casualties in this thread already? damn



I'm pretty sure it was the decision of the individuals, not the McDonalds restaurant to avoid intervention. It would make better sense to protest the cameraman's house.

Yeah that's true but the intent isn't to protest the restaurant, just what happened there.

Either way it's a moot point, I don't think I could make it anyway.

 

[Byakuya769]

a woman produces eggs, they have both a uterus and ovaries (XX chromosome)
a male produces sperm, they have penis and testicles (XY chromosome)

scientifically speaking hes still a man.. your ways of seeing things is different from mines so please take no offense

Even focusing on purely physical manifestations of "sex" it is much more complicated than that. So obviously you didn't know what you were talking about, and it's good that your ass got banned.

 

[Dead Man]

But thats my point. Comparisons to other minorities' struggles muddles the larger issue. Equality, tolerance, and rights. The ignorance towards transgendered members of society is different in content and reason from the ignorance towards blacks or gays or jews or women or mexicans and so and so on. The stereotypes are different, the fear is different, the reasons people act like hateful shits towards those peoples are different. There needs to be a clearer focus on what exact misinformation and lack of information is out there and address that so we can educate and eradicate specific stereotypes and prejudices.

I really don't see the issue here. I am not saying in any way that someone's struggle is any less significant than another's, just that it's different in the details. That is logical and obvious to me, unless someone is purposefully trying to mangle those words to make it appear like a negative statement (cough*gaborn*cough) there should be no reason for it to create thread destruction.

PM'd.

 

[Gaborn]

But thats my point. Comparisons to other minorities' struggles muddles the larger issue. Equality, tolerance, and rights. The ignorance towards transgendered members of society is different in content and reason from the ignorance towards blacks or gays or jews or women or mexicans and so and so on. The stereotypes are different, the fear is different, the reasons people act like hateful shits towards those peoples are different. There needs to be a clearer focus on what exact misinformation and lack of information is out there and address that so we can educate and eradicate specific stereotypes and prejudices. .

No, the reason is exactly the same. It's all based around the fundamental notion that one person (the bigot we're talking about) is superior than the other, and that the person we're talking about (the person attacked by the bigot), because of a quality they happen to possess is worthy of scorn.

 

[Stellares]

On a positive note, the facebook page for Chrissy Lee Polis has tons of people showing support.

 

[MWS Natural]

I dont' see why it would. It's not controversial or inflammatory, its fact. Different minority groups, different situations, different needs, different battles. It doesn't demean or reduce the importance of any one minority group over another, it just points out that every group is different and therefor should stop comparing themselves to each other and focus on the unique battle they have to face to gain the acceptance they deserve.

*slow clap*

 

[siddx]

No, the reason is exactly the same. It's all based around the fundamental notion that one person (the bigot we're talking about) is superior than the other, and that the person we're talking about (the person attacked by the bigot), because of a quality they happen to possess is worthy of scorn.

I hate to continue this line of conversation because as Dead Man pointed out, it often leads to super thread derailment and tends to result in groups of likeminded people arguing over the wording of a post.
My only point I wanted to clarify before I drop the issue is that when I say it's different, I mean that for instance, someone may hate a transgendered person because they think it's unnatural to switch sexes. While someone might hate black people because they have the misconception that black people are dangerous, someone might hate mexicans because they think they steal jobs, and another person might hate gay people because they simply think it's disgusting.
You are right, it's all hate. Hate is hate. But each hate is fueled by a different source, and thats what I think needs to be looked at more closely. The fact that the reason behind the hate is different means that the education and information needed to stop that hate needs to be different as well.

 

[Mumei]

The ignorance towards transgendered members of society is different in content and reason from the ignorance towards blacks or gays or jews or women or mexicans and so and so on. The stereotypes are different, the fear is different, the reasons people act like hateful shits towards those peoples are different. There needs to be a clearer focus on what exact misinformation and lack of information is out there and address that so we can educate and eradicate specific stereotypes and prejudices.

I really don't see the issue here. I am not saying in any way that someone's struggle is any less significant than another's, just that it's different in the details. That is logical and obvious to me, unless someone is purposefully trying to mangle those words to make it appear like a negative statement (cough*gaborn*cough) there should be no reason for it to create thread destruction.

What do you mean by "the ignorance towards transgendered members of society is different in content and reason"?

 

[Gaborn]

I hate to continue this line of conversation because as Dead Man pointed out, it often leads to super thread derailment and tends to result in groups of likeminded people arguing over the wording of a post.
My only point I wanted to clarify before I drop the issue is that when I say it's different, I mean that for instance, someone may hate a transgendered person because they think it's unnatural to switch sexes. While someone might hate black people because they have the misconception that black people are dangerous, someone might hate mexicans because they think they steal jobs, and another person might hate gay people because they simply think it's disgusting.
You are right, it's all hate. Hate is hate. But each hate is fueled by a different source, and thats what I think needs to be looked at more closely. The fact that the reason behind the hate is different means that the education and information needed to stop that hate needs to be different as well.

See, I still don't quite agree because hate isn't the quite the root cause. Hate is a direct effect of ignorance. I agree that education is important, but the details of why people hate a group don't honestly matter. The first thing we need to teach kids is not to judge a group of people by the actions of some. The second thing we need to teach is that everyone is worthy of respect and dignity. We should encourage people to get to know others before making judgments about them. We should encourage people to challenge preconceived ideas and to actually think. You're right that every struggle certainly has unique challenges but why fight separately when our causes are together so much stronger? At the end of the day all any of us are fighting for are dignity, equality, and the freedom to live our lives like everyone else. Our goals are universal, and so are our struggles.

 

[Desi]

I call girls dude all the time. Now I know I can't especially if the chick is a tranny because I'll be seen as some forum bigot.

On topic of the fight. I'll just call the cops, nothing more nothing less.

 

[mollipen]

Hmm, after careful consideration...

I really think it's harder to get banned via threads like this than a lot of people think. All you really have to do is not say insulting things just to say them. There have been plenty of people who are on the other side of the opinion on the whole transgender topic, but they actually express their thoughts and don't just get rude about it.

As dangerous as threads like this are, I'm glad they happen. On one hand, sure, sometimes you have people come out of the woodwork with statements and feelings that really made me sad to read, but on the other hand you'll get people who don't typically read threads that are strictly about trans-issues, and those people - through the back and forth arguments / comments - might come away with a better understanding of a group of people they had given little thought to before.

I've seen a number of people on here who have said, "you know, before I thought people who are trans were weird or just a fetish or something, but now I realize why those thoughts weren't fair." Situations like that are always a positive thing. And, even if you still aren't totally cool with the whole transgender thing, at least you may come away with a bit more understanding.

 

[Gaborn]

I call girls dude all the time. Now I know I can't especially if the chick is a tranny because I'll be seen as some forum bigot.

On topic of the fight. I'll just call the cops, nothing more nothing less.

pro-tip: "tranny" is not a good word to use.

 

[lexi]

I call girls dude all the time. Now I know I can't especially if the chick is a tranny because I'll be seen as some forum bigot.

On topic of the fight. I'll just call the cops, nothing more nothing less.

I am not going to flip out if someone refers to me as 'dude'. Something like 'dude, really?' is fine.

The issue is / was people going 'he is a dude' when referring to a transwoman.

 

[Dead Man]

I am not going to flip out if someone refers to me as 'dude'. Something like 'dude, really?' is fine.

The issue is / was people going 'he is a dude' when referring to a transwoman.

Such restraint, Lexi!

Edit: And yeah, I think it like when I call my female friends, mate. I don't say he is my good mate, I say she is.

 

[siddx]

I call girls dude all the time. Now I know I can't especially if the chick is a tranny because I'll be seen as some forum bigot.

On topic of the fight. I'll just call the cops, nothing more nothing less.

Oh god....Do you really not understand the difference between calling a girl "dude" as slang and calling a girl "dude" in a deliberate act of attempting to ignore her gender change? And that wont make you appear to be a bigot, but calling someone a tranny will. Bigot.

 

[Desi]

nah, but I will call anybody dude. just like I would call anybody I'm cool with by the "N word". As a "transgender" issue I just call them by whatever they want, after you spent so much money and/or time to go through the procedure all I can do is say "Miss" or "Mister". The real conundrum here is how that dude that manned the camera got the best picture.

 

[Londa]

I'm confused, if a person who still has a penis is dressed like a woman, I have to call them a woman? This is a honest question.

 

[Dead Man]

I'm confused, if a person who still has a penis is dressed like a woman, I have to call them a woman? This is a honest question.

No, but you should call her, her, if that is what she wants. And transwomen are not just people with penises dressed as women.

 

[notworksafe]

I'm confused, if a person who still has a penis is dressed like a woman, I have to call them a woman? This is a honest question.

You don't HAVE to do anything. But it is commonly considered polite to refer to someone as they gender with which they identify. It's really not difficult.

 

[Stellares]

I'm confused, if a person who still has a penis is dressed like a woman, I have to call them a woman? This is a honest question.

If they identify as a woman, then yes.

 

[Gaborn]

I'm confused, if a person who still has a penis is dressed like a woman, I have to call them a woman? This is a honest question.

If somebody is transitioning? Absolutely. And it's a helluva lot more than someone who " still has a penis is dressed like a woman" for the people we're talking about.

 

[Londa]

If they identify as a woman, then yes.

How would you know this, if its the first time meeting them?

I mean, if you need to get their attention. You can't say excuse me Mr or Mrs.

Well the person in the video still has their adams apple. So I am unsure on what to call them.

 

[Desi]

Ah I see how it is. No one wants to talk to me no more. Aight fine, I was going to go and take pictures of the crime scene for you guys and everything.

Well the person in the video still has their adams apple. So I am unsure on what to call them.

that is sort of inconsequential. Everyone doesn't shave it off, views on keeping it or not are vary from person to person.

 

[Stellares]

How would you know this, if its the first time meeting them?

I mean, if you need to get their attention. You can't say excuse me Mr or Mrs.

How do you know they have a penis then?

 

[Dead Man]

How would you know this, if its the first time meeting them?

I mean, if you need to get their attention. You can't say excuse me Mr or Mrs.

Well the person in the video still has their adams apple. So I am unsure on what to call them.

Really? Do you know that lots of women have prominent adam's apples?

 

[Derwind]

How would you know this, if its the first time meeting them?

I mean, if you need to get their attention. You can't say excuse me Mr or Mrs.

Well the person in the video still has their adams apple. So I am unsure on what to call them.

Call 'em freak. That always works. :/

 

[Londa]

How do you know they have a penis then?

question are you being defensive? Because I'm asking a question to try and get educated on this. I'm not trying to attack or hurt your feelings. Not everyone is out to get you.

Really?

I saw it moving in the video.

 

[Stellares]

question are you being defensive? Because I'm asking a question to try and get educated on this. I'm not trying to attach or hurt your feelings. Not everyone is out to get you

Its an honest question. If you don't know them personally, how do you know they have a penis?

If you are unsure of their gender, simply ask them.

 

[water_wendi]

Well the person in the video still has their adams apple. So I am unsure on what to call them.

What would you call a genetic woman with an adams apple?

 

[Dead Man]

I saw it moving in the video.

That is not what I was referring to. I edited for clarity.

Here's a tip though. If they are wearing female clothes, call them by female pronouns, if they are wearing male clothes, use male pronouns, and if they are wearing gender neutral clothing use gender neutral pronouns if you can't tell, or just ask them what they prefer.

 

[GQman2121]

He/she is about to be crazy fucking paid. That is all........

 

[Stellares]

Transwomen aren't the only ones with adam's apples.
And even if they were, that does not change how you address them...

Regardless, if you are trying to get someone's attention, its a safe bet to address them by the type of clothing they are wearing. If you got it wrong, they'll most likely correct you

He/she is about to be crazy fucking paid. That is all........

She.

 

[water_wendi]

He/she is about to be crazy fucking paid. That is all........

Yea i bet shes been getting lots of calls from law firms lol

 

[Londa]

What would you call a genetic woman with an adams apple?

Never came in contact with one.

I guess trying to understand what I should call someone correctly wont be here because its wasted on defensive reactions. Don't expect people to understand if you are going to get defensive.

 

[Stellares]

Who is being defensive? Seriously...what the heck? We are honestly trying our best to educate you.