Support NeoGAF

[speculawyer]

Sorry man, but why do you come into sales threads if you want no part of what's inside? Seems rather masochistic to me.

+1

 

[Elios83]

It's a good thing there is stock, for those who want to buy it and to really see what kind of success the product is having. I'd wait for January NPD results, if PS3 is in the third place with available stock at retailers they're in trouble. If they are the best selling console of the month,supply or not this article has little meaning other that Sony is already able to produce enough consoles to satisfy demand.
Anyway don't understimate the importance of PS3 for all the Sony corporation, with PS3 they have already turned the table for Blu Ray sales in a few months,they want to use it also to push sales of HD televisions and of course they want to stay in the number one position in the gaming market. They have strict sales deadlines to respect if they want to keep a strong support (developers will decide where to put the games of the coming years looking at the sales this year), so if price is THE obstacle which prevents high sales,they will cut it as soon as possible,this is a product whose success is number one priority for all the company.






PS:I'd be glad if they diverted shipments to Europe and lanched in early March but probably won't happen :lol

 

[Krowley]

No I wasnt saying anything because I still havent recieved the memo when GAMING has become more about being interweb wanna be experts and mud slingers and less about actually enjoying games.

Dude, this is a sales-age thread. It's easy enough to avoid them. Most of the discussion is not meant to be offensive to anybody.

 

[Learn2read]

Canada's a different case because we're a fraction of the US market (roughly 10%)
That said, I haven't seen a PS3 in the wild yet, and I live in the GTA. Ditto the Wii. In fact, i'm lucky if I see games or accessories for the Wii sometimes. (It took me a week to find a classic controller)

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[KTallguy]

I think they DO know about the current PS3 library and that is why they are not biting. There is only one game (Resistance). worth getting that is not already available on the xbox 360.

I totally agree. Hopefully this will change in March.

 

[Days like these...]

No I wasnt saying anything because I still havent recieved the memo when GAMING has become more about being interweb wanna be experts and mud slingers and less about actually enjoying games.

But you did get the memo that stated that GAMING has become more about defending your console of choice from all the trolls and less about actually enjoying games right? :lol

 

[Crackerman16]

It's a good thing there is stock, for those who want to buy it and to really see what kind of success the product is having. I'd wait for January NPD results, if PS3 is in the third place with available stock at retailers they're in trouble. If they are the best selling console of the month,supply or not this article has little meaning other that Sony is already able to produce enough consoles to satisfy demand.
Anyway don't understimate the importance of PS3 for all the Sony corporation, with PS3 they have already turned the table for Blu Ray sales in a few months,they want to use it also to push sales of HD televisions and of course they want to stay in the number one position in the gaming market. They have strict sales deadlines to respect if they want to keep a strong support (developers will decide where to put the games of the coming years looking at the sales this year), so if price is THE obstacle which prevents high sales,they will cut it as soon as possible,this is a product whose success is number one priority for all the company.

I agree. The PS3 is an integral part of Sony Corp.'s success, not just SCE. They will do whatever necessary to make sure PS3 succeeds, because if PS3 succeeds, then all of their other divisions benefit as well.

If sales in 2007 tank due to price/lack of games, Sony will do their best to slash the price (I don't see them doing so, but they might drop up to $100 if need be) and pump out A LOT of PSN downloadable games.

And like I said in other PS3 d00m & gl00m/analyst threads...
"It's not how you start, it's how you finish."

 

[Haunted]

But you did get the memo that stated that GAF threads about the console wars have become more about defending your console of choice from all the trolls and less about actually enjoying games right? :lol

fixed?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The most fun thing in this thread isn't the Sony fans attempting a defense (most have given up) but watchign the circle-jerk of people who don't give a damn about games on a Sony system in the first place. People who wouldn't be caught dead having a positive impression of a Sony game or exclusive getting together for their daily jizz-fest.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

That makes absolutely no sense.

Perhaps I should elaborate then.

Canada only receives a percentage of what the states does, with a higher demand.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Especially since people do not file their taxes until April and the refunds usually come way after that.

WTF?

He was talking about people who get tax refunds. Most people in the US who are due to get refunds try to file as fast as they can after they get their W-2 paperwork from their employer. By law, your employer must give you a W-2 by January 31. So most people who do an EZ form or have a preparer like H&R Block try to get their filing done quickly.

With the advent of quick filing online and other services, people can get their money by the end of February at the latest. Why would you wait until April 15th to file and not get your money until May, when you can get your money back 2-3 months earlier? Most people like to get their money ASAP.

The vast majority of the people who wait until April to file do so because they OWE money, not because they will be getting money back.


Not that it matters though. I don't see that many people using their refunds to buy any game console, except maybe some young adults or high school summer job kids who don't like drinking and partying better.

 

[Learn2read]

Perhaps I should elaborate then.

Canada only receives a percentage of what the states does, with a higher demand.

Well if Canada is ~10% of the population and recieves ~10% of the consoles, it absolutely makes no sense. If that is not the case, I take it back.

 

[urk]

Let's talk benefits. If Sony is really having trouble moving PS3's early, for whatever reason, do you think they'll accelerate plans to lower the price. Obviously, much of that is based on hardware revisions and revenue, but this could have an effect, right?

 

[sonycowboy]

Heh. Nice call. You seem reasonable and well informed. What do you make of this news? Is this just Internet hyperbole, or is Sony really downtrending?

Too early to be definative, but IMO, it's troubling as the report states. Not because there is stock, but because I'm hearing that it's not moving well. It sold great the first couple of days, but are consumers already satiated. If January sales are less than ~250k or so, I'd say Sony needs a price drop instantly. But that only buys them another month. If February (one of the slowest months of the year) doesn't do ~200k, I'd again call for a price drop.

NOTE: Both of those amounts are comparable to PS2 sales those months.

IMO, I don't worry about availability, I worry about low sales.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Well if Canada is ~10% of the population and recieves ~10% of the consoles, it absolutely makes no sense. If that is not the case, I take it back.

What i'm implying is that the gaming population is higher here than the alottment that we receive.

 

[Krowley]

Let's talk benefits. If Sony is really having trouble moving PS3's early, for whatever reason, do you think they'll accelerate plans to lower the price. Obviously, much of that is based on hardware revisions and revenue, but this could have an effect, right?

Sure.

It's a good bet that if sales are slow enough they will try to lower the price. they're already eating 200 dollars per system but sony is a big company and they might be able to afford more.

If they drop the 500 dollar system down to 400, and manufacture it in bigger numbers than the 600 dollar systems that might be enough to spur faster sales.

 

[Moderation Unlimited]

Too early to be definative, but IMO, it's troubling as the report states. Not because there is stock, but because I'm hearing that it's not moving well. It sold great the first couple of days, but are consumers already satiated. If January sales are less than ~250k or so, I'd say Sony needs a price drop instantly. But that only buys them another month. If February (one of the slowest months of the year) doesn't do ~200k, I'd again call for a price drop.

NOTE: Both of those amounts are comparable to PS2 sales those months.

IMO, I don't worry about availability, I worry about low sales.

Well, we pretty much know that there will be a price drop in March...if reports out of Japan are anything to go by. I wonder by how much though--I'd say $50.00 USD less each SKU ($449.99 and $549.99).

 

[dammitmattt]

jebus, it's not even 2 months old.

Just wait for March Madness to start pumping out big titles so we can put an end to these friverless topics

What big titles are coming out in March? All that I see is Motorstorm and a bunch of Xbox 360 ports. I want Motorstorm as much as any PS3 owner on this board and I'll be picking it up, but don't delude yourself into thinking that it's a system seller or a huge game.

It's apples and oranges, but the Xbox 360 "re-launch" last March had a much stronger lineup with GRAW, Oblivion, and Fight Night, which were all three system sellers. The PS3-exclusive stuff like VF5, Eye of Judgement, and the aforementioned Motorstorm are just not in the same category. It's looking more and more like the PS3 heavy-hitters won't be hitting until this fall.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Sure.

It's a good bet that if sales are slow enough they will try to lower the price. they're already eating 200 dollars per system but sony is a big company and they might be able to afford more.

If they drop the 500 dollar system down to 400, and manufacture it in bigger numbers than the 600 dollar systems that might be enough to spur faster sales.

I personally think it would be better for them to lift the damned NDAs that they keep devs locked behind and start actually hyping the hell out of the games coming.
And before a price drop they should take the money that they would eat from dropping the price and lock in some exclusives and take a more proactive stance instead of the whole idiotic quiet approach.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

It's still too early to tell what's going to happen. Not that I subscribe to the "It's not how you start, it's how you finish" axiom as an application to console success. Historically, it has been all about the first 6-8 months. Launches and the period that follow them are absolutely crucial in this business, and except in a couple of cases where the lead was very small, there are no "come from behind victories" in the late frame.

The eventual fate of the Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox could be easily inferred from their first 8 months, as with the Saturn, Playstation, and N64. Even the PSP/DS war showed where it was going after about 8 months.

It's obviously not all dependent on the first three months, but saying the finish tells us more than the broad starting period is being a little naive. The sentiment is one I agree with however. It's too early to tell anything. By the end of this year, we should know more or less how the chips are going to fall, though. It's going to be an interesting battle for once.

 

[hadareud]

the question is if Sony can afford a pricedrop this soon. I don't think they can.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Sure.

It's a good bet that if sales are slow enough they will try to lower the price. they're already eating 200 dollars per system but sony is a big company and they might be able to afford more.

If they drop the 500 dollar system down to 400, and manufacture it in bigger numbers than the 600 dollar systems that might be enough to spur faster sales.

That's a huge gamble. The PS3 is already reportedly a huge loss-leader. taking another 100 dollars off the price would throw off their revenue forecasts by millions with the same manufacturing processes. You're going to see the PS3 at 500/600 for a while.

 

[sphinx]

tides can definitely still change.

PS3 only needs a killer app. It needs its "gears" or its " Zelda", something that resistance doesn't manage to be.

PS3 needs a game called final fantasy XIII because that game will show the system true power and the reasoning behind the bigger space and possibilities philosophy.

you can quote me: metal gear solid 4 and all the new "great" new IPs like heavenly sword, Liar, etc. will do for the console as much as resistance did for the ps3 on launch.

 

[Moderation Unlimited]

the question is if Sony can afford a pricedrop this soon. I don't think they can.

The question is this...can Sony afford not to sell 250k to 500k (and associated software and peripheral sales) more units as a result of a price drop. I think the answer is pretty clear if indeed they do need to take drastic measures. If these "worries" are grossly overstated, then Sony won't drop the price a dime.

 

[Krowley]

I personally think it would be better for them to lift the damned NDAs that they keep devs locked behind and start actually hyping the hell out of the games coming.
And before a price drop they should take the money that they would eat from dropping the price and lock in some exclusives and take a more proactive stance instead of the whole idiotic quiet approach.

Yeah, game hype certainly couldn't hurt. Nintendo currently has more hyped first party games coming up... Obviously first party has always been nintendo's main attraction, but sony shouldn't keep things secret if they've got some cool stuff on the horizon.

There are some cool 3rd party games like the FF stuff and MGS, but they don't seem like they're coming very soon.

 

[TTP]

Yeah, game hype certainly couldn't hurt. Nintendo currently has more hyped first party games coming up... Obviously first party has always been nintendo's main attraction, but sony shouldn't keep things secret if they've got some cool stuff on the horizon.

There are some cool games like the FF stuff and MGS, but they don't seem like they're coming very soon.

Hironically, games are coming out... on the PlayStation Store. I guess it's hard for retailers to pimp their PS3s with that tho.

 

[kiUNiT]

tides can definitely still change.

PS3 only needs a killer app. It needs its "gears" or its " Zelda", something that resistance doesn't manage to be.

PS3 needs a game called final fantasy XIII because that game will show the system true power and the reasoning behind the bigger space and possibilities philosophy.

you can quote me: metal gear solid 4 and all the new "great" new IPs like heavenly sword, Liar, etc. will do for the console as much as resistance did for the ps3 on launch.

Hopefully they do much more, we don't need MS holding all the chips by the time the next Xbox launches.

Edit
A little off and on topic can someone translate the general jist of this video:lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM8pxZcebfg&mode=related&search=

 

[J-Rzez]

If there is to be a price-drop, it'd better coincide with a month that there's going to be a bunch of new games, that's all I'm going to say... If there's not a libraray to choose from at the time, then the drop won't do anything...

EDIT: also, do we really know what Sony's cost per unit is other than some 3rd party guesstimates on stuff? Especially if Sony is producing on their own, it's hard to tell...

 

[urk]

If there is to be a price-drop, it'd better coincide with a month that there's going to be a bunch of new games, that's all I'm going to say... If there's not a libraray to choose from at the time, then the drop won't do anything...

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply a price drop short term. I don't think Sony can sustain any more losses on the hardware right now. What I meant to examine was whether or not they would accelerate their plans to lower the price. For instance, the 360 should start to make profit on hardware sales when they make the move to 65nm, but it's still doubtful they will drop the price right away, especially if their direct competition is at a higher point (let's not debate the Wii as direct competition here please). In the same vein, it is doubtful Sony wants to drop the price at the first profit opportunity, but if their hardware sales lag, they'll have to make adjustments to please both consumers and publishers, right?

In short, I really want a PS3, but I don't have $600 right now. I accept Paypal.

 

[KeithFranklin]

games coming out in march will help, plus its tax return season, so people are gonna be itching to waste on something.

Ya know not everyone gets a tax return check. Some of us are smarter and withold only the required amount and pay taxes on April 15th rather then give the government an interest free loan all year.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Yeah, game hype certainly couldn't hurt. Nintendo currently has more hyped first party games coming up... Obviously first party has always been nintendo's main attraction, but sony shouldn't keep things secret if they've got some cool stuff on the horizon.

There are some cool 3rd party games like the FF stuff and MGS, but they don't seem like they're coming very soon.

Even little things, Heavenly Sword could be big but Ninja Theory is locked behind an NDA, and why is it when you go on IGN and other sites when it talks about games like Assassin's Creed, GRAW2, The Darkness and others it always says Xbox360 next to them and you do not see mention of the fact that they are coming on the PS3 unless you click the link and go into them.
It is not IGN and other sites faults, it is Sony because for some reason they just seem completely retarded about pushing their games and have some gameplan they are sticking too that is obviously not really doing them alot of good.

 

[Busty]

tides can definitely still change.

PS3 only needs a killer app. It needs its "gears" or its " Zelda", something that resistance doesn't manage to be.

PS3 needs a game called final fantasy XIII because that game will show the system true power and the reasoning behind the bigger space and possibilities philosophy.

you can quote me: metal gear solid 4 and all the new "great" new IPs like heavenly sword, Liar, etc. will do for the console as much as resistance did for the ps3 on launch.

I can't help but feel that you're less than enthusiastic about these upcoming games.

To be honest, I agree with you, up to a point, the games that re going to make or break the PS3 aren't the games that are announced. They're the games that aren''t announced.

Sony really needs to knock it out of the park this year with great new IPs, killer apps and even third party exclusives. Like I've said in the past and you do too, if all Sony have in terms of a killer app to really push the PS3, a game that (for whatever reason) can't be done on the 360, is the FF XIII games in 2008 then they're in trouble.

They need these games ASAP.

 

[meltpotato]

Even little things, Heavenly Sword could be big but Ninja Theory is locked behind an NDA, and why is it when you go on IGN and other sites when it talks about games like Assassin's Creed, GRAW2, The Darkness and others it always says Xbox360 next to them and you do not see mention of the fact that they are coming on the PS3 unless you click the link and go into them.
It is not IGN and other sites faults, it is Sony because for some reason they just seem completely retarded about pushing their games and have some gameplan they are sticking too that is obviously not really doing them alot of good.

i'd venture a guess that that has more to do with development leads.

you and sphinx sure have a lot of posts in here for people who only cares about teh gamez and want this "non-news" locked :lol

 

[FirstInHell]

Lemme give you the email addy's of quite a few people I know then waiting to do this... you can tell them how absurd it really is... Like i said, there's quite a few, around 11 that I know off the top of my head... which, for a backwards hick-city, is pretty good... and a couple people are waiting on seeing what kinda games are coming for it, which, March would be a good deciding factor time for them...

March I'm speaking of is when there's to be an onslaught of games if all holds true... and, there WILL be a sales spike because of the EU release... that's all...

Refunds are much quicker now thanks to direct deposit by the way, and online filing... Income tax refund time is much broader than March anyways... I know this, but it's a generalized time frame...

It still has nothing to do with tax season. Look at this data I historically posted. Has March historically seen a spike in sales?

http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=PS2&name2=XB&type=0

17 PS2 Feb 02 489,000 9,489,500 XB Mar 03 181,500 5,656,000
18 PS2 Mar 02 424,000 9,913,500 XB Apr 03 139,000 5,795,000
19 PS2 Apr 02 231,000 10,144,500 XB May 03 136,500 5,931,500

28 PS2 Jan 03 532,500 19,008,000 XB Feb 04 222,000 8,953,500
29 PS2 Feb 03 575,000 19,583,000 XB Mar 04 220,500 9,174,000
30 PS2 Mar 03 471,000 20,054,000 XB Apr 04 330,000 9,504,000

41 PS2 Feb 04 417,000 26,727,500 XB Mar 05 249,500 13,727,000
42 PS2 Mar 04 347,500 27,075,000 XB Apr 05 169,500 13,896,500
43 PS2 Apr 04 222,500 27,297,500 XB May 05 145,500 14,042,000

Your anecdotal evidence does not jive with historical console sales trends. So you are saying that tax returns and the spike of people with direct deposit bank accounts is going to fuel the PS3 sales in March? :lol

 

[birdchili]

If February (one of the slowest months of the year) doesn't do ~200k, I'd again call for a price drop.

NOTE: Both of those amounts are comparable to PS2 sales those months.

it just seems nutty that anyone would expect hd consoles, which really want a four-digit-dollars tv to accompany them to sell as fast as their predecessors - particularly at twice the price (more-or-less). surely there's an expectation within sony that the ps3 will take longer to gain traction than the ps2 did.

i would hate to be a third party trying to decide today on a single dev platform for a ps3/360 destined game. tricky business, this.

 

[bill0527]

..../yawn

I'm off to play JPN Motorstorm.

I'm getting pretty good at it. I can't wait to emabarass my fellow Gaffers online come March.

 

[PROOP]

If there is to be a price-drop, it'd better coincide with a month that there's going to be a bunch of new games, that's all I'm going to say... If there's not a libraray to choose from at the time, then the drop won't do anything...

EDIT: also, do we really know what Sony's cost per unit is other than some 3rd party guesstimates on stuff? Especially if Sony is producing on their own, it's hard to tell...

Good points, but we can safely assume that Sony is taking at least a substantial loss on every console.

An immediate price drop would confuse consumers because it's only 2 months old. People would say to one another: "Wow, PS3 must suck if it's price is getting dropped already" or "360 has better games atm, and it's still $100 less".

The only thing that can save Sony now are games games and more games. The problem with this gen is that games are tangibly more expensive. +$10 for all games, and awful prices for used games, make game purchases less of an instant impulse buy, and turn it into completely planned purchases, which we all know to be less frequent and [bold]friverless[/bold] than impulse buys.

 

[urk]

The only thing that can save Sony now are games games and more games. The problem with this gen is that games are tangibly more expensive. +$10 for all games, and awful prices for used games, make game purchases less of an instant impulse buy, and turn it into completely planned purchases, which we all know to be less frequent and [bold]friverless[/bold] than impulse buys.

I agree that Sony would benefit from having a larger library, but that's to be expected in the launch window. Still, console hardware typically drives itself in the first several months and that doesn't seem to be happening for the PS3. I don't think it's the price of games. The 360 is enjoying a very nice attach rate on it's systems. It's the lack of games, specifically good games on store shelves.

 

[kiUNiT]

It still has nothing to do with tax season. Look at this data I historically posted. Has March historically seen a spike in sales?

http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=PS2&name2=XB&type=0

17 PS2 Feb 02 489,000 9,489,500 XB Mar 03 181,500 5,656,000
18 PS2 Mar 02 424,000 9,913,500 XB Apr 03 139,000 5,795,000
19 PS2 Apr 02 231,000 10,144,500 XB May 03 136,500 5,931,500

28 PS2 Jan 03 532,500 19,008,000 XB Feb 04 222,000 8,953,500
29 PS2 Feb 03 575,000 19,583,000 XB Mar 04 220,500 9,174,000
30 PS2 Mar 03 471,000 20,054,000 XB Apr 04 330,000 9,504,000

41 PS2 Feb 04 417,000 26,727,500 XB Mar 05 249,500 13,727,000
42 PS2 Mar 04 347,500 27,075,000 XB Apr 05 169,500 13,896,500
43 PS2 Apr 04 222,500 27,297,500 XB May 05 145,500 14,042,000

Your anecdotal evidence does not jive with historical console sales trends. So you are saying that tax returns and the spike of people with direct deposit bank accounts is going to fuel the PS3 sales in March? :lol

This may have been true in the past because most people could afford $300.00 more or less (depending on the console and games purchased at the time)off of your weekly paycheck. But with the 360 and now to a larger extent the PS3 your talking a $500.00 to$800.00 purchase to get up and running. I know that I could not just buy that with the extra disposable income left over from my weekly pay, but it is a purchase that I and many other may make this march after the tax refunds come in.

 

[LJ11]

the question is if Sony can afford a pricedrop this soon. I don't think they can.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If Sony finished last this gen, can you imagine the losses then? They would have to consider the risk/reward of entering the next race, and Stringer seems like the type to take a more conservative approach than his predecessors.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

There's a pretty big disparity in the price between the two consoles. As long as that's the case, with the games being pretty much the same between them from a technical standpoint (to be fair), the 360 will always be the preferred console. Only exclusives and a more complete online infrastructure can turn that around at this point.

That isn't up for debate.

What are you paying extra for when getting a PS3? BluRay? Well, that comes at a cost as well since one has to shell out even more for the movies.

Sony has no choice but to make the PS3's price more competitive. I say June.

 

[The Innocent X]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If Sony finished last this gen, can you imagine the losses then? They would have to consider the risk/reward of entering the next race, and Stringer seems like the type to take a more conservative approach than his predecessors.

A price drop would immediatley be matched by MS, and Nintendo would probably do something too. Difficult call to make

 

[DaCocoBrova]

A price drop would immediatley be matched by MS

No it would not... Unless they feel like throwing a ton of money away. I was really surprised when the PS3's price was announced. But then I figured the console was just that amazing and people would be able to see a tanglible difference between it and the 360. Being that that has not been the case, I knew Sony would face this very dilemma, sooner rather than later.

MS reaped the benefits of a price drop already because of this.

 

[Learn2read]

the question is if Sony can afford a pricedrop this soon. I don't think they can.

Even if they went ballls out and said screw it, we'll lose another few hundred bucks a console, then they'd have zero money left for moneyhats. MS would be scoring exclusives left and right.

 

[Beer Monkey]

There's a pretty big disparity in the price between the two consoles. As long as that's the case, with the games being pretty much the same between them from a technical standpoint (to be fair), the 360 will always be the preferred console. Only exclusives and a more complete online infrastructure can turn that around at this point.

Theoretically that is where the 'over 100' in-house titles in development come into play. Time will tell if these prove to be the draw that is needed.

 

[Javaman]

the question is if Sony can afford a pricedrop this soon. I don't think they can.

That's ok, Ebay is handling the pricedrop for Sony just fine...

60GB Shipped for $574

 

[Luckyman]

Wii ships 2 million units

Where is this info from?

 

[The Innocent X]

No it would not... Unless they feel like throwing a ton of money away.

Why wouldn`t they? They are in a much better position to drop the price, and would stop the PS3 gaining traction. Whats the argument for not dropping?

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Theoretically that is where the 'over 100' in-house titles in development come into play. Time will tell if these prove to be the draw that is needed.

Good games take years to develop. They need them shits *now*.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Why wouldn`t they? They are in a much better position to drop the price, and would stop the PS3 gaining traction. Whats the argument for not dropping?

I was really surprised when the PS3's price was announced. But then I figured the console was just that amazing and people would be able to see a tanglible difference between it and the 360. Being that that has not been the case, I knew Sony would face this very dilemma, sooner rather than later.

MS reaped the benefits of a price drop already because of this.

'Tis true.