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[EYEL1NER]

US military get medals for everything anyways.
Finish a course get a medal or a ribbon.
Do a major exercises get a medal or a ribbon
Etc
Etc

I'd be curious to hear some examples of this.
Mainly so I can make fun of whatever branch it is, because I can't think of any examples of this in the soft, moist, cookie-cutter Air Force.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

This is the future of the military, you're gonna have to get used to these guys getting something.

is an extremely brave soldier who strategically achieves very little more worthwhile than a chicken shit UAV operator whose skills are of great strategic value?

do you get medals for valorous but ultimately ineffective acts or sculpting whole conflicts with a starbucks in one hand?

It's amusing really, how many medals have been handed out for blokes charging machine gun nests and wiping them out single handedly. Yet these drone guys probably knock out dozens every other year with their hellfire missiles.

 

[Koomaster]

Prestige. Is that so hard to understand?

Yes? It doesn't make any sense to me. Is it just the gov't saying 'Oh this medal is better than this other medal'? If so, why would they do that. Why would they rank medals at all like that.

Seems if they were going to give out medals the only ranks should be within the same medal's category. Like a bronze drone pilot medal vs a gold drone pilot medal. Why are they pitting medals against each other?

 

[TheKaeptain]

Don't snipers get awards also? War changes and evolves, so I don't have a problem with it.

It should be rank lower than purple heart obviously.

Sitting in the middle of a war zone waiting for a guy to come out of his place isn't the same as sitting in a room in Texas waiting for a guy to show his face.

 

[IGotBillySoSpooked]

I'd be curious to hear some examples of this.
Mainly so I can make fun of whatever branch it is, because I can't think of any examples of this in the soft, moist, cookie-cutter Air Force.

The Army Service Ribbon is awarded for completing AIT. Also, the NCO Professional Development Ribbon is given out for completing Warrior Leader Course (a 3 week long "course").

I've seen lots of folks get Army Achievement Medals for participating in week long training exercises or creating a program for a random ceremony or Army ball.

Also, the National Defense Service Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal are awarded simply for being in the Army within the last 10 years.

 

[EYEL1NER]

The Army Service Ribbon is awarded for completing AIT. Also, the NCO Professional Development Ribbon is given out for completing Warrior Leader Course (a 3 week long "course").

I've seen lots of folks get Army Achievement Medals for participating in week long training exercises or creating a program for a random ceremony or Army ball.

Also, the National Defense Service Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal are awarded simply for being in the Army within the last 10 years.

Thanks.
I guess the Air Force does stuff like your first example. I thought to myself "It's not like the AF gives out a ribbon for completing ALS (airman leadership school) or anything!" only to realize that they in fact do. That is my bad. Aren't a lot of ribbons that are tied to PME courses not weighted though? Or maybe I am mistaken.

Medals for training exercises is something I have never heard of and do deserve to be scoffed at.

I don't consider the last two to be that frivolous. Yeah every single person gets them, but they are given them for a reason, because of the ongoing 'war.' A coworker of mine joined at the right time to get some stuff for Nam even though it was pretty much over at that point, it's just what happens when the government wants to call something a war.

 

[Tesseract]

old snakes yell at cloud.

 

[CornBurrito]

I'd be curious to hear some examples of this.
Mainly so I can make fun of whatever branch it is, because I can't think of any examples of this in the soft, moist, cookie-cutter Air Force.

Why make fun of it? It seems like they are borrowing solid psychological principles of positive reinforcement. If it leads to better soldiers (maybe it does) then who cares?

 

[Animator]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i'll let someone else address this

You seem super offended, whats wrong?

 

[DrSlek]

Nah...more like everyone else in the military calls anyone in the Air Force a member of the "Chair Force"

I think that's the irony of it.

 

[Kite]

The Army Service Ribbon is awarded for completing AIT. Also, the NCO Professional Development Ribbon is given out for completing Warrior Leader Course (a 3 week long "course").

I've seen lots of folks get Army Achievement Medals for participating in week long training exercises or creating a program for a random ceremony or Army ball.

Also, the National Defense Service Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal are awarded simply for being in the Army within the last 10 years.

You get the Good Conduct Medal for just being in the Army for 3 years and not getting into any major trouble. AAMs are easy to get if you just put a little bit of effort into winning a board or do a decent job at being a team/squad leader. COAs are toilet paper, our brigade SGM was a huge fan of sports and would hand those out to those who won the intramural championships.. bs promotion points. I got my ARCOM as an E4 doing an E5's duties while on deployment. It is the Combat Action Badge that is actually hard to get depending on where you are and will get you some respect as a support soldier. I had mortars land half a block away from me and got nothing while my buddies in Afghanistan slept through the attack where they got their CABs. Most of these awards are expected of you if you aren't a fuckup.

 

[AgentP]

Medals, serious business.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Do you get medals for piloting a navy ship?

 

[Nekofrog]

How could you say that? I'm not the most educated on this topic, but to just throw that out the window like that comes off as pretty disturbing.

I mean...are we not murdering innocents? What is your excuse?

If my post comes off as ignorant, well, I am pretty ignorant on this subject. Educate me.

And to stay on topic, I feel that veterans have every reason to be upset with this

Because the topic at hand is the medal and the award, not your political contrivances.

edit: yes, the medal system in the entire military is fucked up (to a degree)

medals that are worth points for promotion? they're not as badly fucked up.

i got the global war on terrorism expeditionary and OND/OEF (new dawn/enduring freedom, or iraq and afghan campaign medal) just for deploying to an undisclosed location in southeast asia in direct support of missions over the middle east. while there i got hazardous duty pay, imminent danger pay, and hostile fire pay. in a country that would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever see any of that. but i don't think they're worth any promotion points so it really doesn't matter.

With 3+ years in, I have almost 3 full rows on my ribbon rack. some with oak leaf cluster. By the end of the year I'll probably be into my fifth row. this compared to a ground pounder at the same level as me, who probably has one full row, maybe some change in addition.

 

[Nekofrog]

You seem super offended, whats wrong?

no, not offended. aghast at the concept of air force personnel calling other air force personnel "chair force". that's not how it works. the generalization is that the entire air force = chair force, not just rpa pilots.

 

[Kite]

The Chair Force thing is just jealousy, they get nicer stuff and their women are generally more attractive. I will never admit to this again.

 

[Animator]

no, not offended. aghast at the concept of air force personnel calling other air force personnel "chair force". that's not how it works. the generalization is that the entire air force = chair force, not just rpa pilots.

Ah I had no idea.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Much safer job than construction worker: give that man a medal.

Way to devalue the concept of a medal.

 

[Nekofrog]

Ah I had no idea.

i won't exaggerate, unless I'm deployed (where I work 14 hour days. 6 days on 1 off) in support of RPA missions, I'm in a chair 7 hours out of the day.

The only other exception is when I get to go out and bitch out NCOs and SNCOs (as an E4, too) that they're stupid and fucked shit up. And they have to take it.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

I had my bronze star downgraded to an ARCOM because my SCO was a piece of shit. I called in a medevac during a mortar shelling during patrol. Instead all the captains in the TOC got bronze stars for making pretty PowerPoint reports of the incident. I'm still bitter.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I wonder what people will say once they give the soldier robots and drones medals.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

This is like a horse based calvaryman complaining that the tank drivers are getting medals. Progress is a bitch.

work on those analogies.

Has anyone posted the story about the finance worker winning the bronze star yet?

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/04/air-force-tech-sergeants-take-heat-bronze-stars-041612/

Jesus H. Christ, they'll hand out medals to the whiny generation soon...

What is the Purple Heart but a medal for not ducking fast enough? I bet some of these drone operators get bad carpal tunnel and that shit is unavoidable, unlike bullets which are pretty much harmless when running in a serpentine pattern.

are you...? no, sarcasm levels detected.

I had my bronze star downgraded to an ARCOM because my SCO was a piece of shit. I called in a medevac during a mortar shelling during patrol. Instead all the captains in the TOC got bronze stars for making pretty PowerPoint reports of the incident. I'm still bitter.

fuck officers, fuckers can't do shit without the NCOs holding their hand.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

At least the medal of honor mantains some value, even after those stupid fucking shitstain soldiers who massacred a bunch of native americans back in the day (wounded knee) recieved some twenty of them.

 

[Dead Man]

I had my bronze star downgraded to an ARCOM because my SCO was a piece of shit. I called in a medevac during a mortar shelling during patrol. Instead all the captains in the TOC got bronze stars for making pretty PowerPoint reports of the incident. I'm still bitter.

Officers need that shit to feel good, real troopers do their job. You did your job. Fuck the officers.

 

[Kite]

Has anyone posted the story about the finance worker winning the bronze star yet?

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/04/air-force-tech-sergeants-take-heat-bronze-stars-041612/

heh I was a finance soldier for the Army so I can actually talk about this. Tech Sgt seems to be equivalent to our E6 SSG and her position is roughly the same as our Disbursement Agent (DA). Ours all got ARCOMs for their year of deployment, one step below the Bronze Star iirc.

 

[DR2K]

Because drones are doing such an amazing job killing innocent people.

 

[Nekofrog]

Because drones are doing such an amazing job killing innocent people.

someone already made this stupid post, sorry.

 

[CornBurrito]

Much safer job than construction worker: give that man a medal.

Way to devalue the concept of a medal.

Are medals only awarded for putting yourself in danger? Why shouldn't medals also be rewarded for results obtained?

I can see rewarding medals for results, rather than braveness being a change in the concept of a medal. But how is it a devaluation?

This is a thread where I wish people would elaborate on their opinions some more. I'm honestly not sure why anyone has a problem with awarding medals for skill and results. It's a bit different than awarding bravery, but people are acting like it is some alien concept.

 

[GungHo]

Points for promotion, actually.

Edit:

Allow me to fully clarify this. Promotions work on a point-based system. You get a certain number of points for TIG (Time in Grade) and TIS (Time In Service). The longer you go without promoting, the more points you accrue and the more likely you are to get your promotion. This is in combination with a test that you take. You get X number of points for the test, add the X number of TIG/TIS points, and X number of points for your commendations.

RPA (remotely piloted aircraft, STOP using the term drone as it is 100% inaccurate) pilots currently have no way of earning many of the high valued wartime medals, simply because they're not actually present in the warzone. This means that their promotion rate has stagnated, and a lot of people leave the force because of it. This is the reason for the new medal, to recognize the RPA pilot's achievements. It's not meant to outclass or outshine battlefield medals. It's meant to recognize their contribution to warfighting capabilities.

I'm really ok with them getting bronze, silver, and gold desks and getting REMF theater badges. They aren't risking their asses, but if they're doing a good job, they should get promotions. Some ribbons are almost like boy scout badges for pitching a tent, honestly, so who gives a shit if a bunch of junior chairmen need a better reason to blow each other. However, I do reserve the right to piss on them if they start bragging about it like it's a valor award, as I do on the butterbar who led us to "victory" in the Battle of Where The Fuck Are We And Why Did You Shoot That Sheep?

Do you get medals for piloting a navy ship?

If it's under fire or you're in dangerous waters, yes.

 

[Steelrain]

I'm really ok with them getting bronze, silver, and gold desks and getting REMF theater badges. They aren't risking their asses, but if they're doing a good job, they should get promotions. Some ribbons are almost like boy scout badges for pitching a tent, honestly, so who gives a shit if a bunch of junior chairmen need a better reason to blow each other. However, I do reserve the right to piss on them if they start bragging about it like it's a valor award, as I do on the butterbar who led us to "victory" in the Battle of Where The Fuck Are We And Why Did You Shoot That Sheep?


If it's under fire or you're in dangerous waters, yes.

Lost my shit.

The real shitty thing is when they started giving blanket Combat Action Ribbons after my first tour to Iraq. When I come back from the BP and I see some fat fuck in the Comm shop telling me why he cant fix our Blue Force because he has to go to mid-rats show up to the next Marine Corps Ball with his new CAR...yeah....I pretty much stopped caring about awards. I don't even want to get started on bullshit NAM's.

 

[jimi_dini]

I think people give drone operators too much shite sometimes. I think it would be dramatically easier on me to kill from a fighter jet, or even as a foot soldier than to kill as a drone operator.

yeah sure. Because looking someone directly into the eyes in real life and then pulling the trigger is much easier than pressing a button on a joystick to shoot someone miles away without being in any danger whatsoever and seeing b/w video of your doings (looks just like a videogame) and even being able to go home afterwards to family and have a nice dinner. I think I got to puke.

Fighter jet pilots risk a bit as well. There could be an accident (or theoretically shot down) and they could get killed that way. The drone operator is instead outside of any danger.

And again: it's their damn choice. Noone forces them to do it. At least actual soldiers risk a bit. Of course not much, because they are still far better equipped and have way better support than their "enemies". Just look at the death tolls as comparison.

For example look at Gulf War.
294 US troops dead - of those 114 soldiers because of enemy action. The rest is either "friendly fire" or accident.
On the other side - at least 3600 civilians directly killed, some 100.000 from the war's other effects. Soldiers not known, estimated around 20.000-35.000 fatalities.

I wouldn't call this a war. It's like Mike Tyson beating up (and killing) little children.

Now include those drones and those stats will be even crazier. Maybe 2 US troops dead in total - both because of heart attack during their drone sessions.

 

[DarkFlow]

How could you say that? I'm not the most educated on this topic, but to just throw that out the window like that comes off as pretty disturbing.

I mean...are we not murdering innocents? What is your excuse?

If my post comes off as ignorant, well, I am pretty ignorant on this subject. Educate me.

And to stay on topic, I feel that veterans have every reason to be upset with this

Because this topic is about medals, not civilian drone strike victims. This is not a soapbox for that.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Hey, how are Drone operators supposed to prestige otherwise? The US military just wants to provide an equal flow of XP for each playstyle.

 

[way more]

Wow at the what people presume being a drone pilot means. Should FOBBITS get medals? What about doctor on base?

What a fucking joke. A bunch of guys who have played COD so much they think they know what it means it be in the military.

yeah sure. Because looking someone directly into the eyes in real life and then pulling the trigger is much easier than pressing a button on a joystick to shoot someone miles away without being in any danger whatsoever and seeing b/w video of your doings (looks just like a videogame) and even being able to go home afterwards to family and have a nice dinner. I think I got to puke.

Fighter jet pilots risk a bit as well. There could be an accident (or theoretically shot down) and they could get killed that way. The drone operator is instead outside of any danger.

And again: it's their damn choice. Noone forces them to do it. At least actual soldiers risk a bit. Of course not much, because they are still far better equipped and have way better support than their "enemies". Just look at the death tolls as comparison.

For example look at Gulf War.
294 US troops dead - of those 114 soldiers because of enemy action. The rest is either "friendly fire" or accident.
On the other side - at least 3600 civilians directly killed, some 100.000 from the war's other effects. Soldiers not known, estimated around 20.000-35.000 fatalities.

I wouldn't call this a war. It's like Mike Tyson beating up (and killing) little children.

Now include those drones and those stats will be even crazier. Maybe 2 US troops dead in total - both because of heart attack during their drone sessions.

I love the argument that because our ordinance is more sophisticated it's somehow more evil. "That militia killed thousands of civilians but they used hacksaws and small arms fire. We use 10k missiles so clearly they are in the right."

 

[HiiiLife]

Where are you guys getting the impression that they joined because of Call of Duty? Lol. GAF at its best. I've already agreed that these types of medals should be awarded to soldiers IN combat, but y'all hitting low with the actual operators. Calm down.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

You know, if the Navy gets that proposed air-to-air drone
I would actually consider becoming a drone pilot.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

You know, if the Navy gets that proposed air-to-air drone
I would actually consider becoming a drone pilot.

You probably have no chance. Lot's of Ex-Pilots and what not would fill that position for the next 20 years or so.

 

[WanderingWind]

How many times does it have to repeated that people in the military get awards for all types of things? Yes, Corpsmen and Army medics get medals. Yes, people in support (ie, anybody not in infantry or a pilot) get awards. This has always been the case. These are not disputable facts.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

You probably have no chance. Lot's of Ex-Pilots and what not would fill that position for the next 20 years or so.

Yeah you're probably right.

 

[astroturfing]

what about military/government hackers? when are they going to get medals?

uhh why should persons who don't even kill anyone get medals? don't you get it.. killing is what's heroic and reward-worthy.

 

[WanderingWind]

uhh why should persons who don't even kill anyone get medals? don't you get it.. killing is what's heroic and reward-worthy.

And only killing if your technology is of equal or lesser complexity as the other guy firing at you. Oh, and only if you can look him directly on the eyes, because apparently this is 1776 and we're all using muskets still.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

How many times does it have to repeated that people in the military get awards for all types of things? Yes, Corpsmen and Army medics get medals. Yes, people in support (ie, anybody not in infantry or a pilot) get awards. This has always been the case. These are not disputable facts.

Most people aren't in the military, so it's not surprising that most people have no idea about it. But people don't need to know anything to form strong opinions about things. In this case the idea of a drone operator getting a medal violates their simplistic mental model of how medals work while also summoning up the righteous indignation that appears en masse in every thread related to UAVs.

 

[daycru]

I mean, they're make believe nonsense achievements anyway, why not give them to the joystick jockeys too.

 

[bggrthnjsus]

a lot of uav operators are actual pilots who were assigned these roles and actually wanted to be really flying so i have no problem with this medal. the whole idea of medal ranking is kind of silly though, they should just say that some are harder to receive than others

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

a lot of uav operators are actual pilots who were assigned these roles

This is a trend that is going to continue into the future, too.

 

[Odoul]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/04/15/hagel-drone-pilot-medal-change/2085035/

I guess enough hell was raised.