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[andthebeatgoeson]

Yep. Little known fact: Nintendo actually moneyhatted ads for Madden GameCube. That didn't work out too well. :lol

I always viewed that as Nintendo really not wanting to be Dreamcasted. Madden sold poorly on the GCN, especially in light of the Xbox. They had no excuse and I'm sure EA had some leverage. They even tried to push that GBA link shit for awhile. I don't think EA could have really gone that route but with the way EA games sold on GCN vs Xbox with Xbox having a similar install base and SW sales that rivaled the PS2, I figured Nintendo had to do something to keep EA happy.

 

[Pachael]

Nintendo has already won Japan, and the Sony console/handheld are stuck in 2nd place. X360 will be last. (Despite any small 'blips'). Deal with it.

 

[D.Lo]

From 11/08/2006:

PS2 - 20,982 / 19,921,688
GC - 647 / 4,163,243
Xbox - 0 / 475,569

That's a total of 24560500 consoles.
PS2 - 81.11%
GC - 16.95%
XBOX - 1.94%

At the current rate it will take a very long time for the Wii to hit 81%

Well, yeah, but the PS2 had the advantage of the year head start (ie install base isn't neccessarily indicative of the 'current' market). As Japanese support dries up for the PS3, it's likely the Wii/PS3 ratio of software sales will be even higher then the PS2/GCN ratio. Sony doesn't have marquee titles like the GCN had (Mario Kart etc) to give themselves even niche relevance as a losing system.

I always viewed that as Nintendo really not wanting to be Dreamcasted. Madden sold poorly on the GCN, especially in light of the Xbox. They had no excuse and I'm sure EA had some leverage. They even tried to push that GBA link shit for awhile. I don't think EA could have really gone that route but with the way EA games sold on GCN vs Xbox with Xbox having a similar install base and SW sales that rivaled the PS2, I figured Nintendo had to do something to keep EA happy.

Xbox software sales did not rival the PS2. Maybe for a couple of key titles like that, but overall the GCN and Xbox sold very similar amounts of software.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Newly-created software groups:

Ace Attorney NEW Best Price! 2000
Pretty similar performances all around, though the first has the edge.
Bleach: Heat the Soul
Looks like the new fifth entry has the series best debut week yet, though not by much.
Battalion Wars
Second one has a slightly better opening week than the first.
Luminous Arc
Second one has a slightly better opening week than the first.
Wii Zapper
Looks like in its first few weeks Link's Crossbow Training is following a similar pattern to Umbrella Chronicles, though LCT doesn't have a big holiday sales time to help bump it coming up.
Wii Balance Board
Family Ski will have a tougher time catching Wii Fit than PS3 will have catching Wii.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

From 11/08/2006:

PS2 - 20,982 / 19,921,688
GC - 647 / 4,163,243
Xbox - 0 / 475,569

That's a total of 24560500 consoles.
PS2 - 81.11%
GC - 16.95%
XBOX - 1.94%

At the current rate it will take a very long time for the Wii to hit 81%

True, but given the cost of making games for the PS3 it is probably in worse trouble than the GC was.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Xbox software sales did not rival the PS2. Maybe for a couple of key titles like that, but overall the GCN and Xbox sold very similar amounts of software.

I always remembered Xbox EA games (probably should have been more specific) as doing extremely well. When I say 'rival', I mostly mean, compete. GCN Madden sales would have a tough time clearing 200K whereas Xbox Madden sales could touch a million. Now, PS2 was the leader, but that's a huge difference and the GCN suffered.

 

[botticus]

From 11/08/2006:

PS2 - 20,982 / 19,921,688
GC - 647 / 4,163,243
Xbox - 0 / 475,569

That's a total of 24560500 consoles.
PS2 - 81.11%
GC - 16.95%
XBOX - 1.94%

At the current rate it will take a very long time for the Wii to hit 81%

It will also take a very long time for the total consoles sold to hit 24,560,500 from their current 8,710,137. So there's time.

 

[BishopLamont]

It will also take a very long time for the total consoles sold to hit 24,560,500 from their current 8,710,137. So there's time.

That first year lead the PS2 had is going to make it really really hard for the Wii to capture an 80% marketshare, even the 360's lead is something worth nothing. Software wise, the Wii has to take on the DS. Goes to show though how much of a failure the PS3 has been.

 

[cw_sasuke]

With Shiren 3 and ToS2 there are to J-Rpgs comin next month for the wii for thise hungry hardcore-gamers. What for LTD numbers can we expect for those games ? I expect big numbers at least from ToS2 even if it isn`t a Team Symphonia Game - the Cube Game sold like 300K and there is really NO competition on wii and the userbase is higher.....

i expect :

shiren : 200K
tos2 : 250K

hope for :
shiren 250K
tos2: 400K


if those 2 games are successfully i expect more j-rpg announcments for wii at tgs...

 

[donny2112]

For ToS2, I think 150K 1st/300K LTD is a good expectation. I'm hoping for a 250K 1st/450K LTD, though. That would put it outselling the PS2 version of ToS1.

 

[JaMarco]

I'm hoping for a 250K 1st/450K LTD, though. That would put it outselling the PS2 version of ToS1.

that would be great if that happened

 

[cw_sasuke]

For ToS2, I think 150K 1st/300K LTD is a good expectation. I'm hoping for a 250K 1st/450K LTD, though. That would put it outselling the PS2 version of ToS1.

If tales of without competition can sell over 300k as an established ip - there isn`t much hope for future wii rpg announcments...i would think... ds/psp will keep those games...

 

[donny2112]

If tales of without competition can sell over 300k as an established ip - there isn`t much hope for future wii rpg announcments...i would think... ds/psp will keep those games...

Huh? Are you aware of how the handheld Tales games are selling and how 300K would be a 50% improvement over the best of them? And that's despite the development history of this game, and the negative impact it might have on sales to the hardcore Tales fans.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Huh? Are you aware of how the handheld Tales games are selling and how 300K would be a 50% improvement over the best of them? And that's despite the development history of this game, and the negative impact it might have on sales to the hardcore Tales fans.

i`m talkin about rpg announcments in general - psp is dominatin hardware right now and ds is the system to develop for.... besides that the dev costs for those hh-rpgs are far lower than for console rpgs.... if those wii rpgs don`t sell well, devs won`t stop releasin most rpgs on ds/psp .... i would guess....

 

[donny2112]

if those wii rpgs don`t sell well, devs won`t stop releasin most rpgs on ds/psp .... i would guess....

That would be well for Tales compared to the handhelds, and the hopeful 450K LTD would put it #7 out of all the Tales games, when you include the PS1 games. That won't change the default location of RPGs from being the DS, of course, but more RPG gamers on the Wii in Japan is still a good thing.

 

[cw_sasuke]

That would be well for Tales compared to the handhelds, and the hopeful 450K LTD would put it #7 out of all the Tales games, when you include the PS1 games. That won't change the default location of RPGs from being the DS, of course, but more RPG gamers on the Wii in Japan is still a good thing.

don`t get me wrong - 450K LTD would be great - no awesome....i just said that unter 300K LTD would be disappointing for me, since this would be worser than the cube one did with a smaller userbase...

 

[Koren]

From 11/08/2006:

PS2 - 20,982 / 19,921,688
GC - 647 / 4,163,243
Xbox - 0 / 475,569

That's a total of 24560500 consoles.
PS2 - 81.11%
GC - 16.95%
XBOX - 1.94%

At the current rate it will take a very long time for the Wii to hit 81%

I don't think it will ever reach 80%, and I'd expect the share to drop to ~60% when all is done, but... are we at a point where we only hope that PS3 will do better than GC ?

(by the way, the share of PS2 is mostly an effect of its greater longevity, they was still selling them at a high rate after GC was nearly dead)

 

[ComputerNerd]

I don't think it will ever reach 80%, and I'd expect the share to drop to ~60% when all is done, but... are we at a point where we only hope that PS3 will do better than GC ?

(by the way, the share of PS2 is mostly an effect of its greater longevity, they was still selling them at a high rate after GC was nearly dead)

The longevity will likely play into the Wii's hands vs. the PS3. #1 consoles always have a longer lifespan.

 

[donny2112]

I don't think it will ever reach 80%, and I'd expect the share to drop to ~60% when all is done, but... are we at a point where we only hope that PS3 will do better than GC ?

(by the way, the share of PS2 is mostly an effect of its greater longevity, they was still selling them at a high rate after GC was nearly dead)

So you're saying that you expect the Wii's sales to fall off at some point and not sell like this (or better) for a few more years?

 

[ccbfan]

The tales series is pretty much the most in trouble series this Gen.

Both the DS games bombed.

The PSP ports sold decently but even those are starting to drop. (The last one underperformed)

PS3 and 360 has no presence at all in Japan.

Wii is pretty much the last chance for this franchise. If it bombs there then they would have no where else to go. (Well they could finally try a real new tales game for the PSP considering the ports did pretty well but unlikely considering if they had any plan to they would have announced one before the ports' sales starting falling).

 

[Captain Smoker]

From 11/08/2006:

PS2 - 20,982 / 19,921,688
GC - 647 / 4,163,243
Xbox - 0 / 475,569

That's a total of 24560500 consoles.
PS2 - 81.11%
GC - 16.95%
XBOX - 1.94%

At the current rate it will take a very long time for the Wii to hit 81%

Dreamcast?


@ToS:
Let´s see how much it´ll manage.

300.000 - 400.000 would be good, everything over 400.000 would be great.

 

[AniHawk]

Dreamcast?

DC: 3,000,000

Total: 27,560,500

PS2: 72.28%
GC: 15.11%
DC: 10.88%
Xbox: 1.73%

 

[lowlylowlycook]

I don't think it will ever reach 80%, and I'd expect the share to drop to ~60% when all is done, but... are we at a point where we only hope that PS3 will do better than GC ?

Hope?

I'm pretty sure we are just waiting for FF13 to hit Japan so we can just close down these threads entirely.

Anyway why would we expect the PS3 to return to getting 40% of sales let alone building up a 40% install base?

(by the way, the share of PS2 is mostly an effect of its greater longevity, they was still selling them at a high rate after GC was nearly dead)

Which was because the PS2 was dominant in sales.

 

[cw_sasuke]

The tales series is pretty much the most in trouble series this Gen.

Both the DS games bombed.

The PSP ports sold decently but even those are starting to drop. (The last one underperformed)

PS3 and 360 has no presence at all in Japan.

Wii is pretty much the last chance for this franchise. If it bombs there then they would have no where else to go. (Well they could finally try a real new tales game for the PSP considering the ports did pretty well but unlikely considering if they had any plan to they would have announced one before the ports' sales starting falling).

There is a new tales of game comin for ds, which namco expects to sell 500K .....lol

 

[jarrod]

Both the DS games bombed.

The PSP ports sold decently but even those are starting to drop. (The last one underperformed)

Eh... underperformed is putting it mildly... especially compared to those DS bombs.

PSP
-Tales of The World: Radiant Mythology (97.156) 214.128
-Tales of Eternia (74.630) 193.541
-Tales of Destiny 2 (65.503) 114.757
-Tales of Phantasia: Full Voice Edition (65.417) 112.367
-Tales of Eternia: PSP The Best (N/A) 55.632
-Tales of Rebirth (44.888) 54.503

NDS
-Tales of Innocence (106.733) 210.697
-Tales of the Tempest (83.298) 196.073

There is a new tales of game comin for ds, which namco expects to sell 500K .....lol

Those expectations are flat out insane imo... makes me wonder if maybe Team Destiny is behind it, they've been pretty quiet since Destiny R wrapped and it might explain Namco's increased expectations over the previous outsourced efforts from Alfa System and DIMPS.

 

[JaMarco]

Why do people keep saying bombed? Yes they sold poorly but that doesn't mean they bombed, or else the would have stopped at TotT. Ninja Giaden DS bombed, the tales DS games just underperformed/

edit: well forget Tempest then

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Tales of the Tempest didn't bomb.

It did way worse.

 

[jarrod]

Why do people keep saying the DS tales games bombed? Yes they sold poorly but that doesn't mean they bombed, or else the would have stopped at TotT. Ninja Giaden DS bombed, the tales DS games just underperformed/

Tempest bombed (with a pretty famous price collapse). Innocence did alright though.

On the the PSP side, Eternia did amazing (thanks launch rush), Radiant Mythology did exceptionally (better than the GB NDs), Destiny 2 was mediocre, Phantasia FVE was okay (considering it was the 4th release), Rebirth bombed hard.

 

[test_account]

np

I didn't really see indie85 do anything really ban hammerable, though. Or am I missing something? All he did was express crazy support for Sony.

I dont know, he didnt write that much, atleast not what i can see. As you said, he only wrote that PS3 would dominate in the future sometimes. Maybe he was banned so there wouldnt be a huge discussion around if PS3 will dominate in the future or not, but i am not sure why he was banned.

 

[Datschge]

I think Media Create threads have an unwritten rules of banning users who inflate the thread by spouting nonsense. The inflation is usually caused by the nonsense not being apparent as such to non-regulars of the threads, who then join in joy thinking they saw a change of tide or alike. Since that effect is the same as that of a masterful trolling (if it isn't that to begin with) I guess the banning is justified even if the starting post seems innocent in itself.

Spoiler

That got way to wordy for its own good...

 

[test_account]

I think Media Create threads have an unwritten rules of banning users who inflate the thread by spouting nonsense. The inflation is usually caused by the nonsense not being apparent as such to non-regulars of the threads, who then join in joy thinking they saw a change of tide or alike. Since that effect is the same as that of a masterful trolling (if it isn't that to begin with) I guess the banning is justified even if the starting post seems innocent in itself.

Spoiler

That got way to wordy for its own good...

I guess indie85's comments could have been understood as trolling, so that might be why he was banned indeed. I dont know if that was his intention though.

 

[Phife Dawg]

I don't think it will ever reach 80%, and I'd expect the share to drop to ~60% when all is done, but... are we at a point where we only hope that PS3 will do better than GC ?

(by the way, the share of PS2 is mostly an effect of its greater longevity, they was still selling them at a high rate after GC was nearly dead)

For the share to drop to 60%, Wii would either have to fall flat to the ground, or PS3 would need to accelerate to insane sales to offset Wii's already established lead.

I dont know, he didnt write that much, atleast not what i can see. As you said, he only wrote that PS3 would dominate in the future sometimes. Maybe he was banned so there wouldnt be a huge discussion around if PS3 will dominate in the future or not, but i am not sure why he was banned.

Uhm looking at his post-history he posted some pretty dumb shit in the "Konami asked not to talk about cutscene length" thread. I guess that in addition to the dumb shit he posted here and his attitude did it. Being stupid is one thing but being stupid and a douche is just asking for trouble.

 

[Lightning]

Well, yeah, but the PS2 had the advantage of the year head start (ie install base isn't neccessarily indicative of the 'current' market). As Japanese support dries up for the PS3, it's likely the Wii/PS3 ratio of software sales will be even higher then the PS2/GCN ratio. Sony doesn't have marquee titles like the GCN had (Mario Kart etc) to give themselves even niche relevance as a losing system.

No, Sony they do have 2 Final Fantasy games which should see them keep some market share and outsell the Gamecube.

 

[HK-47]

No, Sony they do have 2 Final Fantasy games which should see them keep some market share and outsell the Gamecube.

And Wii, as it stands, is outpacing PS2...

 

[Lightning]

And Wii, as it stands, is outpacing PS2...

Ah, but will it sell for as long as the PS2? Here begs the big question.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Tempest bombed (with a pretty famous price collapse). Innocence did alright though.

On the the PSP side, Eternia did amazing (thanks launch rush), Radiant Mythology did exceptionally (better than the GB NDs), Destiny 2 was mediocre, Phantasia FVE was okay (considering it was the 4th release), Rebirth bombed hard.

Innocence bothers me, it was a full Tales game for the DS, and sold out its initial shipment without a price collapse. Of course Namco gave it a pretty small shipment for a full Tales release.

Anyway, that leads me to my question, from what I hear about TOI, it's a very good portable Tales game, but lacks the depth of a console Tales game. What I'm curious about is if that is a problem with the platform capabilities, or the perceived handheld demographic?

Personally, I'd love a game as big as ToS or Star Ocean:TEOT(minus the 70 years of cutscenes) on the DS, just for convenience sake (quick save a must), but they don't really follow the portable "pick up and put down" perception. Plus the PSP was often criticized for offering a "console experience" on a handheld.

I think with the smaller texture size and smaller resolution, a lot of space is freed, and with a larger ds cart, they could make a large scale Tales game for a handheld. (Voice acting and videos might have to be sacrificed some, though.) But would it have sold better than ToI?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Ah, but will it sell for as long as the PS2? Here begs the big question.

Right now we have no reason to think it won't. Just like we have no reason to believe the PS3 will ever have a "resurgence".

 

[Tenbatsu]

05./00. [NDS] Glory of Hercules: Proof of Spirit (Nintendo) - 23,155 / NEW

Yeah!!! Tried my friend's copy, its a really good RPG, hope it still can be in the top 10 next week.

 

[Vinnk]

Aww.. I don't check GAF for a few days and I miss a great poster like indie85.

I remember hen every week we would have 1 or 2 "stupid argument posters" to keep things lively. I guess the denial is finally going away.

MGS4 can't come fast enough.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

but... are we at a point where we only hope that PS3 will do better than GC ?

Oh, I'm pretty sure PS3 is destined to outdo GCN; it's just taking much longer to do so than we initially thought. FF XIII won't be a savior, but it should be much bigger than pretty much anything GCN had past 2003.

2003 was a pretty big year for GameCube: Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Tales of Symphonia, Mario Kart Double Dash!!, Mario Party 5. However, it was also the final year GCN managed to sell a million, so there's not much tail to keep up with PS3.

Ah, but will it sell for as long as the PS2? Here begs the big question.

I don't see why not yet, but if it can stack up a big enough lead in earlier years it won't need to match all of the tail, like DS doesn't need to now. In the last two years PS2 has only sold ~1.9 million in Japan.

 

[thestopsign]

Oh, I'm pretty sure PS3 is destined to outdo GCN; it's just taking much longer to do so than we initially thought. FF XIII won't be a savior, but it should be much bigger than pretty much anything GCN had past 2003.

2003 was a pretty big year for GameCube: Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Tales of Symphonia, Mario Kart Double Dash!!, Mario Party 5. However, it was also the final year GCN managed to sell a million, so there's not much tail to keep up with PS3.

I don't see why not yet, but if it can stack up a big enough lead in earlier years it won't need to match all of the tail, like DS doesn't need to now. In the last two years PS2 has only sold ~1.9 million in Japan.

How much did Final Fantasy X bump the PS2 when it first came out?

 

[Stumpokapow]

How much did Final Fantasy X bump the PS2 when it first came out?

The 14 weeks surrounding FFX's release:

1	33,919
2	43,275
3	75,693
4	77,869
5	79,867
6	88,286
7	156,471
8	103,263
9	75,283
10	69,158
11	69,159
12	60,019
13	51,236
14	44,844

So if you count the FFX bump from week 3 to week 13, that's ~500k.
If you count the FFX bump from week 7 to week 8, that's maybe ~100k.

I don't know what other software was being released or if there was anything else to cause the period from week 3-week 13. FFX was released July 19, and that graph starts at the beginning of June, so FFX was released on week 7 AFAIK.

I think it's always an oversimplification to ascribe a bump to one piece of software. In the absolute worst case scenario, you get something like Blue Dragon which clearly moved X360s, but the widespread reports of people pretty much immediately trading in their X360s after finishing the game were likely true, so there's no question that it DID NOT contribute to increased software sales later or a higher hardware sales "base point".

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

How much did Final Fantasy X bump the PS2 when it first came out?

Here's the week of, and three weeks before and after. Up to nearly 160K that week, but normal was around 80K at that time, so it already had quite a running start.

EDIT: Since Stumpokapow went over a longer period, here's an accompanying image. He's right, in the longer view FFX was like a bump on a bump.

 

[test_account]

Uhm looking at his post-history he posted some pretty dumb shit in the "Konami asked not to talk about cutscene length" thread. I guess that in addition to the dumb shit he posted here and his attitude did it. Being stupid is one thing but being stupid and a douche is just asking for trouble.

Ye, maybe. I checked his post history, but i havnt really followed what he quoted and what he replied to, but it seems like his just saying his opinion. Maybe he has alittle attitude, but it doesnt seem to be "over the top" and ban worthy to me. But i have no idea, i am just wondering

 

[Pureauthor]

Ye, maybe. I checked his post history, but i havnt really followed what he quoted and what he replied to, but it seems like his just saying his opinion. Maybe he has alittle attitude, but it doesnt seem to be "over the top" and ban worthy to me. But i have no idea, i am just wondering

I think in general mods just come down harder on bullshit in the MC threads because there's so much data that anyone who really wants to pay attention should realize full well when he is wrong.

 

[jesusraz]

There is a new tales of game comin for ds, which namco expects to sell 500K .....lol

It was actually 400,000, which isn't too bad considering Tales of Innocence managed to get through more than its initial 150,000 unit shipment and then some. Bandai Namco has also said the feedback to the game was very positive, which they felt bodes well for the future. Clearly Tempest was a big mistake, but Innocence has laid down a strong foundation for a Tales resurrection on DS. If this third Tales DS hits around the holiday period without the threat of a FF or DQ DS remake then it could stand a much greater chance of hitting 300,000+ easily.

 

[Stumpokapow]

It was actually 400,000, which isn't too bad considering Tales of Innocence managed to get through more than its initial 150,000 unit shipment and then some. Bandai Namco has also said the feedback to the game was very positive, which they felt bodes well for the future. Clearly Tempest was a big mistake, but Innocence has laid down a strong foundation for a Tales resurrection on DS. If this third Tales DS hits around the holiday period without the threat of a FF or DQ DS remake then it could stand a much greater chance of hitting 300,000+ easily.

Presumably this third Tales game business game from financial reports, right? Was there anything about this game that suggested it was Japanese only? ... Because localization is bound to rack up a minimum of 100k. Hell, ToP GBA did half that with no promotion, releasing on a dead system.

 

[Pureauthor]

Presumably this third Tales game business game from financial reports, right? Was there anything about this game that suggested it was Japanese only? ... Because localization is bound to rack up a minimum of 100k. Hell, ToP GBA did half that with no promotion, releasing on a dead system.

Knowing Namco, they'd release it exclusively in South Korea.

 

[test_account]

I think in general mods just come down harder on bullshit in the MC threads because there's so much data that anyone who really wants to pay attention should realize full well when he is wrong.

Ye, that might be the reason. He wrote something in a MGS4 threas as well as Phife Dawg pointed out, so that might be the reason as well, i dunno I would assume that the ban isnt perm anyway (but who knows).

 

[JaMarco]

It was actually 400,000, which isn't too bad considering Tales of Innocence managed to get through more than its initial 150,000 unit shipment and then some. Bandai Namco has also said the feedback to the game was very positive, which they felt bodes well for the future. Clearly Tempest was a big mistake, but Innocence has laid down a strong foundation for a Tales resurrection on DS. If this third Tales DS hits around the holiday period without the threat of a FF or DQ DS remake then it could stand a much greater chance of hitting 300,000+ easily.

Im really anxious to see this new Tales DS game. If Namco is that confident in it then it must be a big step over Innocence.