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[DeaconKnowledge]

So the Wii number for the week is in the 30's?

Wow, much lower than I would have expected, and I didn't expect much. It seems the Wiis third party Japanese software situation really did a number on the console there.

 

[charlequin]

I'm not sure if this is directed at me

Definitely not. I'm thinking of conversations too long ago for my poor addled brain to remember who they were with, which is the only reason I don't name names. :lol

More seriously, I always considered the "Nintendo has better things to focus on and/or don't have the right core competency to improve third-party relations" argument to be legitimate (even if now it appears to have possibly been proven wrong in retrospect), I'm just shit-talking the fanboy "Nintendo rules, everyone's gonna come crawling back to them" arguments.

You know, I'm speaking about the first impression and only about the technical aspect (that's why I said it looks like a lazy effort)

And my point is that the amount of information contained in even a 30-second TV spot for the game (i.e. that it's built around 4-player simultaneous multiplayer) is enough to dispel that impression.

If a game looks technically like the DS predecessor no one is going to celebrate that. Animal Crossing has shown how well that worked out

The idea that the graphical appearance of Animal Crossing Wii is what held back its sales is definitely one of the wackest arguments I've seen in ages. :lol

Animal Crossing is harder to encourage a double-dip on because it's an acquisition/investment game. You play to improve your house, town, and collection, effort that is lost when you switch over to a new iteration on a different system. Without fundamentally new and exciting changes, there's little reason to start over rather than simply continue where you left off in your existing town.

A platformer only needs a new set of levels to justify its existence compared to another platformer that someone may have already completed.

But also like cheating husbands the wife will realize sooner or later why she threw them out to begin with.

It was because he was spending all their money running up excessive charges all over town with his new girlfriends and putting on weight! He's slimmed down and started living frugally now, he's changed for real this time, he swears! :lol

 

[jcm]

This is true, which is why you need to wait for both trackers to see if the results are consistent before you make sweeping assertions.

Does it really make a difference? If MC has the Wii +5K over the PS3 would that suddenly shift anyone's opinion on the efficacy of the price cut?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I told you all months ago. Nintendo fucked the Wii in Japan.



There is only one image macro allowed for the M-C thread. Behold:

http://gcforums.ript.net/images/uhoh.gif[img][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x160/bmfrosty/gaf/fij.png

I think you're being unequally harsh.

 

[wrowa]

I'm not denying this. I just don't see the practical implications of such a difference, especially in regards to the gameplay mechanics that have made NSMB so successful on the DS. Yes, it's design may be suited especially well for a handheld, but this does not stop it also being suited for a console.

That's right. But if people liked the game primary because of its "mobility" it's a reason why the Wii version possibly isn't going to sell as good as Nintendo hopes. I am not saying that this will be the case, I'm only saying that we don't know for certain how well a 2D plattformer nowadays is received on a console, since no one (except of Sony) tried to release a major 2D plattformer on a console in the last 10-15 years. And anyway, I already said many posts ago that I forgot about the multiplayer of NSMB Wii. The multiplayer is probably what decides about hit or miss.

And if Nintendo was disappointed of Animal Crossing's performance, I can't imagine that they would be pleased if the important NSMB Wii only sells as good as AC did. So, selling one Million copies isn't enough.

 

[schuelma]

And if Nintendo was disappointed of Animal Crossing's performance, I can't imagine that they would be pleased if the important NSMB Wii only sells as good as AC did. So, selling one Million copies isn't enough.

Clearly, given that Iwata thinks it can sell 10 million worldwide by March. i think its very likely it is a major major success (2 million plus) and Wii hardware does very well in December. The question in my mind is whether it keeps hardware momentum going after the holidays, something Animal Crossing and Wii Music failed to do.

 

[gerg]

More seriously, I always considered the "Nintendo has better things to focus on and/or don't have the right core competency to improve third-party relations" argument to be legitimate (even if now it appears to have possibly been proven wrong in retrospect), I'm just shit-talking the fanboy "Nintendo rules, everyone's gonna come crawling back to them" arguments.

I just don't think it's as much to do with competency as it is with motivation. I find it hard to believe that there ate any significant differences between the "big three" in terms of skill and ability. Their differences in strategy generally come down to what they want to do, rather than what they can.

Although I'd imagine that, perhaps, "wanting to do X" (with "X" being the generally perceived right thing to do) may be considered a competency in itself (with a failing to want to do so being an incompetency). The question is then what X is, and all I can say to that is that hindsight is a bitch.

I have warmed to the idea of the practical benefits of strong third-party support, mind, but only in the sense of a contingency plan whereby after failing to attract Audience A, third-party game can try to attract the separate and distinct Audience B instead.

That's right. But if people liked the game primary because of its "mobility" it's a reason why the Wii version possibly isn't going to sell as good as Nintendo hopes.

The fact that NSMB is a "mobile" game is an indirect cause of the qualities which, I'd argue, were the real motivators of a purchase (of the game).

And if Nintendo was disappointed of Animal Crossing's performance, I can't imagine that they would be pleased if the important NSMB Wii only sells as good as AC did. So, selling one Million copies isn't enough.

I never said it would be.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I think you're being unequally harsh.

While you may be right, we are speaking on how Nintendo dropped the ball. Dragonas chart sums that up nicely.

 

[wrowa]

The idea that the graphical appearance of Animal Crossing Wii is what held back its sales is definitely one of the wackest arguments I've seen in ages. :lol

Animal Crossing is harder to encourage a double-dip on because it's an acquisition/investment game. You play to improve your house, town, and collection, effort that is lost when you switch over to a new iteration on a different system. Without fundamentally new and exciting changes, there's little reason to start over rather than simply continue where you left off in your existing town.

A platformer only needs a new set of levels to justify its existence compared to another platformer that someone may have already completed.

Well, that's not what I said. The first time I spoke about the "lazy effort" I was comparing NSMB Wii to AC, because many people were disappointed that AC was more or less the same game as its predecessor without any big changes. That's why AC is a lazy effort. Since AC Wii looked very similar to AC DS and NSMB Wii very similar to NSMB DS, it's possible that some people will look at NSMB Wii and will because of its appearance be reminded of AC Wii. And because of this they could think that NSMB Wii is as a lazy effort as AC Wii was and lose interest before they could take a closer look at the game.

Did I already said that I forgot about the multiplayer in the beginning?

It's hard to put thoughts like these correctly into words, if your English isn't that great! :lol

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I think you're being unequally harsh.

...I don't see xbox360 on there.

 

[charlequin]

The first time I spoke about the "lazy effort" I was comparing NSMB Wii to AC, because many people were disappointed that AC was more or less the same game as its predecessor without any big changes.

Again, anyone who has seen one 30-second commercial (and especially anyone who is familiar with the concept of platform games, and how they might be iterated over several sequels in a way that is not equivalently applicable to simulation games like AC) has the needed information to be clear on how NSMB Wii is not analogous to AC Wii.

If you forgot about the multiplayer, though, that does kind of explain why we are having this argument. :lol It's very prominently featured in the promotion the game's getting so far and I'm sure is/will be in the TV spots too.

 

[markatisu]

...I don't see xbox360 on there.

Does abortion or dead on arrival need a graph?

 

[wrowa]

...I don't see xbox360 on there.

Not possible. No chart of this world could ever show how much fucked the 360 is in Japan.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

...I don't see xbox360 on there.

Edit: superseded by better replies.

 

[jcm]

...I don't see xbox360 on there.

Corpses don't get fucked.

Spoiler

much

 

[DMeisterJ]

I told you all months ago. Nintendo fucked the Wii in Japan.

There is only one image macro allowed for the M-C thread. Behold:

http://gcforums.ript.net/images/uhoh.gif[img][/QUOTE]

Ha, :lol

[QUOTE=Frillen]You're REALLY enjoying this aren't you?[/QUOTE]

Nah, I just think that irony is quite hilarious.

 

[donny2112]

the Wii is supposed to be the market leader,

Supposed to be (on the console side). Release lists generally don't support that notion outside of Nintendo, though.

For my part, I think the uptick this week had at least as much to do with Wii Fit Plus as with a price drop. As I've said before (I think), Nintendo should've dropped to 15K Yen or so as a start for the region without a pack-in game. There's no point in keeping price parity when there isn't SKU parity.

Wii + Wii Fit Plus w/Board = old Wii price

That might've been a good start for Nintendo.

Also the meme has shifted from holding back software for motion plus

It was never a meme. It was a theory that astoundingly proved not to be the case. I have no idea what Nintendo's developers have been spending their time on, since it obviously isn't on Wii games.

They are simply the first few things I thought of that might show what I believe to be appropriate alarm and concern for Nintendo's current situation.

I think most of us have shown appropriate alarm and concern for Nintendo's current situation (in Japan) for quite awhile now. 32K is worse than most everyone expected, but I don't think too many are seriously surprised that Wii is doing that bad in Japan, by this point.

as the punch which has historically been the most significant -- a price drop -- has done so little.

So the sky is falling. Thanks for the heads up.

Mightn't it be more beneficial to wait to see if your "PS3 in Sept-Dec > Wii in Sept-Dec in Japan" idea would play out first?

You are confusing Wii situation in Japan (mainly) with Nintendo situation worldwide.

I don't think he posts in the MC threads as much as he should.

Regarding your initial salvo about being outsold in its price drop week, let's wait for the MC numbers.

If Wii > PS3 in MC, it'll change that, but it still doesn't change the ineptness of Wii's sales this week.

Now I can imagine that many potential buyers of NSMB Wii be reminded of AC Wii when they look at NSMB. Which can't be good.

AC Wii had its legs killed by bad word of mouth. NSMB Wii, which could very well see an initially softer opening than expected due to AC Wii, should have the opposite result.

Wii's chance to overcome the PS2 LTD number in Japan are almost non-existent in my opinion.

It's probably been out of the question since coming into Fall 2008, I'd say.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Slight sideward step --

What does the Wii lineup for Winter look like in Japan right now? I've got:

New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Samurai Warriors 3
Taiko Wii 2
Tales of Graces

plus continued sales from:

Wii Fit Plus
Wii Sports Resort

IIRC, Darkside Chronicles fell into early 2010.

What else is there in the next couple of months?

 

[schuelma]

What else is there in the next couple of months?

10/29- SRW Neo
11/5- Mario and Sonic
11/12- FF:CC:CB
11/19- Taiko Wii 2
11/19 or 11/26 is probably NSMB Wii
12/10- Tales of Graces
December- Samurai Warriors 3

1/14- RE: DC


Definitely Wii's best lineup since launch.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

...How could I forget Crystal Bearers and Mario & Sonic?

Yeah, it's definitely its strongest couple of months for a while in terms games of that have good recognition, apparently high quality or a good track record on the system.

 

[oldie-newbie]

...I don't see xbox360 on there.

It is normal. The previous picture is just a zoom from this original picture...

 

[markatisu]

It is normal. The previous picture is just a zoom from this original picture...

Thats great :lol

 

[faridmon]

It is normal. The previous picture is just a zoom from this original picture...

:lol :lol :lol

 

[bafflewaffle]

Why not? People are not only reminded of the nostalgia of Super Mario Bros. some X years ago, but they also get the same feeling of that great DS game they bought a year or two ago.



Why?



If it isn't accurate, why make it?

Again, you're comparing a game that is different in many fundamental aspects to NSMB Wii. I don't see why the comparison is worth the effort, really.



What's your evidence for this?



You have to switch your DS on to play a game on it (or at least go through the "hassle" of finding it in your bag and opening it).



This is an effort?!



Ditto. Why is this a problem?



Why is this a problem when you're at home?



Accessibility is generally created through game mechanics. I don't see how these are in any way compromised by the game's transition to the Wii.



We haven't had a major 2D platformer on a console in the past 10 to 15 years.



How do we know what Nintendo's expectations for the game (outside of their relatively inducible expectations for its ability to push hardware)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentative

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

10/29- SRW Neo
11/5- Mario and Sonic
11/12- FF:CC:CB
11/19- Taiko Wii 2
11/19 or 11/26 is probably NSMB Wii
12/10- Tales of Graces
December- Samurai Warriors 3

1/14- RE: DC


Definitely Wii's best lineup since launch.

Can we talk about how pathetic the consoles' (all of them) lineups have been since this gen started? 7 B profile and up games in 3 months is nothing to get excited about. There's a reason the 3 consoles are performing so shitty.

 

[onken]

Wii sales don't surprise me, I've been saying all along that 2,5000Y is a good price, 5000Y isn't going to make a significant difference. Hell, the bump barely makes up for the pre-drop dip.

 

[thestopsign]

10/29- SRW Neo
11/5- Mario and Sonic
11/12- FF:CC:CB
11/19- Taiko Wii 2
11/19 or 11/26 is probably NSMB Wii
12/10- Tales of Graces
December- Samurai Warriors 3

1/14- RE: DC


Definitely Wii's best lineup since launch.

Winning Eleven is also coming out in November.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

It is normal. The previous picture is just a zoom from this original picture...

I will also permit this image to be used in conjunction with mine.

 

[Threi]

It is normal. The previous picture is just a zoom from this original picture...

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/23/fuckedinjapan.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
:lol

 

[donny2112]

Winning Eleven is also coming out in November.

No release date in Japan, but at least it's launching on time elsewhere. It's also probably good that they dropped the unique naming scheme they were using for it, since now it can share advertising across systems.

 

[Replicant]

It is normal. The previous picture is just a zoom from this original picture...

*awesome.gif*

 

[Serenity]

No release date in Japan, but at least it's launching on time elsewhere. It's also probably good that they dropped the unique naming scheme they were using for it, since now it can share advertising across systems.

Do you think this will help increase sales of the Wii versions I know in the past they have launched late I'm not sure if they were also accompanied by their own unique marketing push or not.

 

[Tmac]

Wow, finally a chart where the 360 beats the competition in japan.

 

[Paracelsus]

Can we talk about how pathetic the consoles' (all of them) lineups have been since this gen started? 7 B profile and up games in 3 months is nothing to get excited about. There's a reason the 3 consoles are performing so shitty.

Well, there's a portable console which's getting zillion of projects which last gen would have been on homeconsoles, not mentioning the homeconsole software split is much more "fair" this time around.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

It is normal. The previous picture is just a zoom from this original picture...

Clearly awesome.

 

[test_account]

Hmm...

GT does better than the leak let on.
And the Wii numbers are true. Tragic.

Ye, there were quite some difference (like 40k or so) on the GT PSP between the leaked numbers and the Famitsu numbers. But some of the other games seems to be rather close between the leaked numbers and the Famitsu numbers at least

10/29- SRW Neo
11/5- Mario and Sonic
11/12- FF:CC:CB
11/19- Taiko Wii 2
11/19 or 11/26 is probably NSMB Wii
12/10- Tales of Graces
December- Samurai Warriors 3

1/14- RE: DC


Definitely Wii's best lineup since launch.

That seems like a pretty good lineup indeed. I think that the Wii will sell well (or perhaps even pretty well?) for the rest of 2009.

 

[kswiston]

NSMB Wii might be a big software seller, but I have this nagging suspicion that it won't be a huge hardware driver like people here are hoping. Sales will still increase in December. Last year they went from 50-55k a week in November to 100-150k a week in December, but I'm going to predict that total sales for the 4 weeks ending on a December date will be under 320k (so <80k a week on average).

 

[schuelma]

Sales will still increase in December. Last year they went from 50-55k a week in November to 100-150k a week in December, but I'm going to predict that total sales for the 4 weeks ending on a December date will be under 320k (so <80k a week on average).

I really doubt that- I think Wii sales were higher than that in December last year.

 

[test_account]

NSMB Wii might be a big software seller, but I have this nagging suspicion that it won't be a huge hardware driver like people here are hoping. Sales will still increase in December. Last year they went from 50-55k a week in November to 100-150k a week in December, but I'm going to predict that total sales for the 4 weeks ending on a December date will be under 320k (so <80k a week on average).

I have been thinking about how big of a system seller NSMBWii will be as well. Seeing that Wii Sports Resort and Monster Hunter 3 didnt really have that long effect on the Wii hardware sales, how will it be with NSMBWii? New Super Mario Bros Wii is a different game though and it is being released close to the holiday season (when people buy more hardware in general), i think that these 2 things combined (both the holiday season and the release of NSMBWii) will most likely lead to some pretty good Wii hardware sales I am wondering how long NSMBWii will keep affecting the Wii hardware sale though. I think that it shall be interesting to see what happends

I really doubt that- I think Wii sales were higher than that in December last year.

Yep, there were 3 weeks in December 2008 where the Wii sold about 150k in each week.


By the way, i see that Garaph.info has 2 weeks in December where the Wii sold 151,865 units 2 weeks in a row. Is this a typo or did Famitsu report 2 weeks in a row where the Wii sold the exact same amount of units?

EDIT: I added some text.

 

[Jonnyram]

Dark days for the Wii now.
Nintendo must be relieved that the DS is selling strong, at least.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Dark days for the Wii now.
Nintendo must be relieved that the DS is selling strong, at least.

Nintendo doesn't give a rat's ass. That's why they're in this trouble to begin with.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Nintendo doesn't give a rat's ass. That's why they're in this trouble to begin with.

Hyperbole.

Others have been in better positions in the past, but Nintendo is currently in a significantly better position now than either of their credible competitors. At worst, they could be said to have a weakness or an opening that could be exploited. I have no faith that either of their competitors are capable of exploiting it any significant way.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Hyperbole.

Others have been in better positions in the past, but Nintendo is currently in a significantly better position now than either of their credible competitors. At worst, they could be said to have a weakness or an opening that could be exploited. I have no faith that either of their competitors are capable of exploiting it any significant way.

Do I have to post the chart again?

 

[Road]

Famitsu September (08/31 - 09/27)

Top 20: (top 10 done by bttb)

01. [NDS] Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver (Pokemon) - 2,067,609 / NEW
02. [NDS] Tomodachi Collection (Nintendo) - 320,767 / 1,156,103
03. [PS3] Tales of Vesperia (Bandai Namco Games) - 272,465 / NEW
04. [PS3] Kidou Senshi Gundam Senki (Bandai Namco Games) - 210,092 / NEW
05. [NDS] Dragon Quest IX: Hoshizora no Mamoribito (Square Enix) - 159,825 / 3,925,285
06. [PSP] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu Portable 4 (Konami) - 151,146 / NEW
07. [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo) - 144,499 / 1,194,491
08. [NDS] SaGa 2: Hihou Densetsu - Goddess of Destiny (Square Enix) - 130,051 / NEW
09. [NDS] Love Plus (Konami) - 81,279 / NEW
10. [PSP] Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's Tag Force 4 (Konami) - 66,352 / NEW

11. [PSP] Ys Seven (Nihon Falcom) - 53,102 / NEW
12. [NDS] Sloane to MacHale no Nazo no Monogatari 2 (Level 5) - 52,141 / NEW
13. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (BEST) (Capcom) - 49,964 / 1,007,098
14. [WII] Monster Hunter 3 (Capcom) - 42,953 / 908,693
15. [PS3] Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (BEST) (Square Enix) - 40,818/ NEW
16. [NDS] Idolmaster: Dearly Stars (Bandai Namco Games) - 37,307 / NEW
17. [360] Halo 3: ODST (Microsoft) - 33,020 / NEW
18. [NDS] Nihon Keizai Shinbunsha Kanshuu: Shiranai Mama dewa Son wo Suru - Mono ya Okane no Shikumi DS (Nintendo) - 29,744 / 47,080
19. [NDS] Puyo Puyo 7 (Sega) - 29,327 / 169,181
20. [PS3] 428: Fuusa Sareta Shibuya de (Spike) - 27,086 / NEW



DS Top 10:

01. [NDS] Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver (Pokemon) - 2,067,609 / NEW
02. [NDS] Tomodachi Collection (Nintendo) - 320,767 / 1,156,103
03. [NDS] Dragon Quest IX: Hoshizora no Mamoribito (Square Enix) - 159,825 / 3,925,285
04. [NDS] SaGa 2: Hihou Densetsu - Goddess of Destiny (Square Enix) - 130,051 / NEW
05. [NDS] Love Plus (Konami) - 81,279 / NEW
06. [NDS] Sloane to MacHale no Nazo no Monogatari 2 (Level 5) - 52,141 / NEW
07. [NDS] Idolmaster: Dearly Stars (Bandai Namco Games) - 37,307 / NEW
08. [NDS] Nihon Keizai Shinbunsha Kanshuu: Shiranai Mama dewa Son wo Suru - Mono ya Okane no Shikumi DS (Nintendo) - 29,744 / 47,080
09. [NDS] Puyo Puyo 7 (Sega) - 29,327 / 169,181
10. [NDS] Penguin no Mondai X: Tenkuu no 7 Senshi (Konami) - 22,134 / 145,937



PS2 Top 10:

01. [PS2] SD Gundam G Generation Wars (Bandai Namco Games) - 15,015 / 303,054
02. [PS2] J-League Winning Eleven 2009 Club Championship (Konami) - 10,999 / 75,341
03. [PS2] Kamen Rider: Climax Heroes (Bandai Namco Games) - 8,583 / 93,011
04. [PS2] Pro Yakyuu Spirits 6 (Konami) - 7,706 / 110,874
05. [PS2] Sweet Honey Coming (Kadokawa Shoten) - 6,676 / NEW
06. [PS2] Melty Blood: Actress Again (Ecole Software) - 6,629 / 56,484
07. [PS2] Hakuouki: Zuisouroku (Idea Factory) - 6,052 / 25,411
08. [PS2] Hisshou Pachinko*Pachi-Slot Kouryoku Series Vol. 14 CR Shinseiki Evangelion: Saigo no Shimono (D3 Publisher) - 5,078 / 60,126
09. [PS2] Canvas 3: Tanshoku no Pastel (GN Software) - 4,365 / NEW
10. [PS2] Momotarou Dentetsu 16: Trip to Hokkaido! (Playstation 2 the Best) (Hudson) - 3,347 / 47,643


--------------------------------

Mightn't it be more beneficial to wait to see if your "PS3 in Sept-Dec > Wii in Sept-Dec in Japan" idea would play out first?

Oh, the hopes.

Looking good so far, though:

Cumulative sales starting Sept. 2009 (Difference)

     PS3        Wii   (PS3-Wii)

1  150,832    18,087   132,745 
2  205,121    33,366   171,755 
3  260,266    48,809   211,457 
4  309,939    61,691   248,248 
5  346,939    93,691   253,248

(Famitsu.)

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Do I have to post the chart again?

Meh. The chart is just contradiction.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Why the hell didn't we get Joysound 2 and Taiko 2 a lot earlier ? The first ones were virtually the only third-partiy successes between last holiday and MH3...

You think they should've rushed for a turnaround time significantly less than a year?

This is not an excuse, but I think one difference is the timing. Nintendo announced the drop like 3 days before it happened, which no doubt minimized the sales it would have lost out on between the anniuncement and the drop. If Nintendo had announced the drop two weeks before it hit like Sony did, I imagine the first number would probably have been closer to 50-55k. Still not good and in reality no different than what we have, but it looks like a bigger impact.

The difference was ~3 days in the States, but the price drop in Japan was held back a few more days to coincide with Wii Fit Plus. So there was a full week.

If a game looks technically like the DS predecessor no one is going to celebrate that. Animal Crossing has shown how well that worked out I'm not speaking about changing the style, I'm speaking about graphics that don't look like a DS game in the first moment.

City Folks's problem isn't that it shares the same style as the DS, GCN, and N64 Animal Crossings that came before it--it's that it shares 90% of its content with them.

 

[bttb]

.

 

[AniHawk]

I think Sony's goal this gen might have been to kill all their franchises aside from Hot Shots. Sad Gran Turismo sales. Just sad.

 

[VegaShinra]

Can't wait for the MC numbers. Those should be out soon, right?

 

[cvxfreak]

Non-game haters rejoice. Wii Fit finally fell off the charts!