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[Busaiku]

It'll be interesting to see how Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate does.
Monster Hunter Freedom Unite was the only "G" version game in the entire genre that wasn't a decline, but it was also the only other Monster Hunter with its predecessor on the same platform.

I don't think Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate's growth over Monster Hunter 3 will be indicative of anything, since it was a very different circumstance.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Onto the PS4 chalk board. You know it's coming.

Seriously somebody get the chalkboard

I can whip one up later if I remember

 

[Thorgal]

Does it contradict somehow what I said above ?

I thought you said there is no tales game that sold higher then 450.000 on PS3 while PS2 had the 3 you listed ? .

If i read your post wrong i apologize .

 

[AquaWateria]

I wonder how well Freedom Wars will do on Vita, my guess would be pretty great.

 

[Days like these...]

Which part of my 'most' users gave u the impression that I pretended there weren't any

Even more people thought wiiu would absolutely dominate the JP market you know..fun times those

And yes wiiu is not an indication..if it was the home console market would be dead in the west too. Mobile game sales show a bigger threat to the home console market and can actually be used as an indication of the changes in the market. WiiU is, as much as some will hate to admit, an unappealing console overall for the home console market. This is not just in Japan but worldwide

I'm not disputing that the Wii u is unappealing to many. Now would you say the ps4 doing 35k in its 3rd week indicative of the home console market in japan?

 

[UberTag]

Didn't take long for the PSV+PSP combo to start outselling the PS4.
Will be interesting to see at the end of the year if they trend higher and whether my prediction of PSV outselling the PS4 in Japan over its lifetime gains traction.

 

[mclem]

Oh for the love of God...

Oh, it's minor as hell, don't get me wrong. It's not accounting for a difference of 1M. I'm just acknowledging that it is a difference.

 

[B.O.O.M]

I'm not disputing that the Wii u is unappealing to many. Now would you say the ps4 doing 35k in its 3rd week indicative of the home console market in japan?

Not really no. Sony or third parties have yet to really push any substantial software on the system still and three weeks is an insanely small amount of time to judge a sales trajectory. This is especially true for sony home consoles given how the ps3 did.

As for my personal expectations, I don't think things will change too much until end of next year in Japan to be honest. Sales for ps4 will be low/average until the Japanese devs/pubs start transitioning from ps3 to ps4.

 

[wrowa]

I thought you said there is no tales game that sold higher then 450.000 on PS3 while PS2 had the 3 you listed ? .

If i read your post wrong i apologize .

He said there's no second Tales game that sold more than 450k on PS3. It's kind of an arbitrary line to draw, but his point remains that the PS2 Tales game by and large sold better than the PS3 Tales games.

Though, I don't think that limiting the comparison to a few selected series makes a lot of sense to begin with. It ignores that there have been a lot of medium-seller titles on PS2 that just vanished on PS3 and got replaced by nothing. Software sales were a lot healthier on PS2 than they were on PS3, even if you take the series into account that successfully made the jump from PS2 to PS3 without losing alot (or any) of their audiences.

 

[jeremy1456]

Didn't take long for the PSV+PSP combo to start outselling the PS4.
Will be interesting to see at the end of the year if they trend higher and whether my prediction of PSV outselling the PS4 in Japan over its lifetime gains traction.

That's hardly a bold prediction. It's inevitable.

 

[Metallix87]

and how are those 1st party games going for Ninty huh?

That just further strengthens my argument. People in Japan want handhelds, not consoles, and console sales are suffering as a result.

lol didn't you notice..he added yet ANOTHER condition to his 'argument' in that comment

Japan-centric software

How is this another condition? We're discussing Japanese sales. All the Call of Duty releases in the world won't make Japanese consumers line up in droves to buy a PS4. On the contrary, those types of experiences will push them further towards 3DS and Vita.

 

[ambientmystic]

At this juncture, it almost seems like the mega-hype for the PS4 worldwide is non-existant in Japan.

Week after week the console is incredibly hard to find in the US and Europe. It is consistantly sold out on Amazon and other e-tailers everywhere. Except Japan.

As others have already mentioned, the PS4 is currently selling based on pure hype and future utility, not based on what it currently has right now, which is a rather mediocre line up that is mostly available on previous gen consoles and the leading competitor.

If the aforementioned worldwide hype was present in Japan, sales wouldn't have dropped to these levels, not at this precipitous rate. The curent Week on Week decline is catastrophic and only solidifies the notion that the PS4 only sold to Japanese hardcore gamer enthusiast (hence the okay-ish 1st week sales from fulfilling pre-orders), and has failed to catch on with the Japanese mainstream at all.

 

[Mpl90]

Home consoles in Japan have portable systems as real challengers for most of the possible support they can get, it's not like the West. With handheld systems becoming more powerful, this trend will get stronger and stronger. Heck, if things continue to stay like this for PS4, I can see some PS4 mid-big titles being released on next Nintendo handheld (assuming it's a portable Wii U, spec-wise) as well, in order to sell in Japan.

 

[leatherhat]

Home consoles in Japan have portable systems as real challengers for most of the possible support they can get, it's not like the West. With handheld systems becoming more powerful, this trend will get stronger and stronger. Heck, if things continue to stay like this for PS4, I can see some PS4 mid-big titles being released on next Nintendo handheld (assuming it's a portable Wii U, spec-wise) as well, in order to sell in Japan.

I don't see debs kneecapping their worldwide sales for a small shot at bigger success in Japan. Also, could you give some examples of what you think a mid big title is?

 

[B.O.O.M]

How is this another condition? We're discussing Japanese sales. All the Call of Duty releases in the world won't make Japanese consumers line up in droves to buy a PS4. On the contrary, those types of experiences will push them further towards 3DS and Vita.

Japan Centric software aren't the only one matters...even in the Japanese market.

and I also said you were wrong even then. Mobile and handheld markets are definitely the priority for pubs/devs in Japan. But they will also release titles for home consoles..and on the home console market, ps4 will be the clear choice. Xbone and WiiU are a non issue in the long run for the ps4 in Japan.

Also no need to have Japanese buyers line up in 'droves'....PS4 will do just fine. It's in a great position in the west and that alone will ensure strong third party support going forward, especially from the bigger publishers. XBone will get some ports too...wiiu is gonna wiiu. This is exactly why Sony is prioritizing the western markets over Japan

 

[Black Republican]

Home consoles in Japan have portable systems as real challengers for most of the possible support they can get, it's not like the West. With handheld systems becoming more powerful, this trend will get stronger and stronger. Heck, if things continue to stay like this for PS4, I can see some PS4 mid-big titles being released on next Nintendo handheld (assuming it's a portable Wii U, spec-wise) as well, in order to sell in Japan.

True that, happened with monster hunter.

 

[Fisico]

I thought you said there is no tales game that sold higher then 450.000 on PS3 while PS2 had the 3 you listed ? .

If i read your post wrong i apologize .

Well I said "there isn't a single other" and by other I meant "other than Xillia".
No harm done anyway

 

[B.O.O.M]

Home consoles in Japan have portable systems as real challengers for most of the possible support they can get, it's not like the West. With handheld systems becoming more powerful, this trend will get stronger and stronger. Heck, if things continue to stay like this for PS4, I can see some PS4 mid-big titles being released on next Nintendo handheld (assuming it's a portable Wii U, spec-wise) as well, in order to sell in Japan.

Some will..sure. But most devs/pubs will not overlook the potential sales in the west just because of the Japanese market. This is true especially with bigger publishers

 

[Chris1964]

So where are all these big console titles going to go huh:

FF, KH, MGS, RE, GTA, Yakuza, Tales etc

You've gone off the deep end making hyperbolic comments like the one in bold. Hard to take you seriously now.

There aren't only "big console titles".

PS2 sold 197m of software
PS3 sold 62m and will reach 80-85m when it's done.
I don't see PS4 reaching neither PS3 numbers.

 

[Mpl90]

...I've said "release on next Nintendo handheld as well", which should mean they'll be released on both PS4 and next Nintendo handheld, not that they'll go to being Nintendo-exclusive immediatly. Certainly some of them (MGS, RE) would NEVER be portable exclusive, even in the case PS4 really continues selling very bad in 2015 and beyond...some could become exclusive as time goes by, but some others won't ever be.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Home consoles in Japan have portable systems as real challengers for most of the possible support they can get, it's not like the West. With handheld systems becoming more powerful, this trend will get stronger and stronger. Heck, if things continue to stay like this for PS4, I can see some PS4 mid-big titles being released on next Nintendo handheld (assuming it's a portable Wii U, spec-wise) as well, in order to sell in Japan.

How is it getting more of a threat when the handheld industry is declining severely?

What are these imaginary mid big titles your talking about?

The only big third party franchises you will see on a Nintendo handheld are the ones where 90% of their sales come from Japanese handheld sales. Basically MH and DQ.

Hilariously wrong versus the numbers you're pulling out of your ass.

Yakuza 1 and 2 did in fact do better than any yakuza on the ps3. Additionally, as someone else already pointed out, no PS3 Tales game has matched Destiny 2.

'Hilariously wrong' is a pretty fitting term.

I'm using the garaph database which is accurate.

Y5 outdid 2 and 3 since we are not counting best releases.

I had no idea Tales of Destiny 2 sold so well.

The point still remains:

Out of all the franchises I have listed, 3 have performed better, 1 has performed more or less the same, 1 has declined by 100k, and 1 has declined by 400k. All of this on a base 10 million lower than the predecessor. Yeah your point is still hilariously wrong.

 

[B.O.O.M]

...I've said "release on next Nintendo handheld as well", which should mean they'll be released on both PS4 and next Nintendo handheld, not that they'll go to being Nintendo-exclusive immediatly. Certainly some of them (MGS, RE) would NEVER be portable exclusive, even in the case PS4 really continues selling very bad in 2015 and beyond...some could become exclusive as time goes by, but some others won't ever be.

Don't think Sony will mind that at all

Keep in mind with your line of thinking the opposite cna be true. If the portable console market keep shrinking, then the publishers might move their franchises to mobile and/or Home console markets (due to western sales)

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

There aren't only "big console titles".

PS2 sold 197m of software
PS3 sold 62m and will reach 80-85m when it's done.
I don't see PS4 reaching neither PS3 numbers.

I never said they were just that some of the biggest franchises in Japanese gaming will remain on consoles.

I don't see PS4 numbers being that good either simply because the output will be lower.

 

[Days like these...]

Not really no. Sony or third parties have yet to really push any substantial software on the system still and three weeks is an insanely small amount of time to judge a sales trajectory. This is especially true for sony home consoles given how the ps3 did.

As for my personal expectations, I don't think things will change too much until end of next year in Japan to be honest. Sales for ps4 will be low/average until the Japanese devs/pubs start transitioning from ps3 to ps4.

So Wii u doing horribly is not indicative of the home console market and the ps4's numbers are also not indicative of the home console market in japan? Gotcha!

 

[jeremy1456]

I'm using the garaph database which is accurate.

Y5 outdid 2 and 3 since we are not counting best releases.

I had no idea Tales of Destiny 2 sold so well.

The point still remains:

Out of all the franchises I have listed, 3 have performed better, 1 has performed more or less the same, 1 has declined by 100k, and 1 has declined by 400k. All of this on a base 10 million lower than the predecessor. Yeah your point is still hilariously wrong.

I was counting the best re-releases. I don't want to cause you another meltdown, but let's take a look at direct FF sequels as well as Gran Turismo, Sly Cooper, and Ratchet and Clank just for grins and giggles.

 

[sörine]

How is it getting more of a threat when the handheld industry is declining severely?

What are these imaginary mid big titles your talking about?

The only big third party franchises you will see on a Nintendo handheld are the ones where 90% of their sales come from Japanese handheld sales. Basically MH and DQ.

At this point MH and DQ are the only really big Japanese 3rd party franchises on any platform, PS3/4/Vita included, but if you lower the bar into Yakuza/Tales/RE/etc territory then there's also been PDZ, Taiko, Yokai Watch, Disney Magic Castle, DQ Monsters, Run for Money, Ace Attorney, IE Go and a lot of other stuff.

 

[kswiston]

I was counting the best re-releases. I don't want to cause you another meltdown, but let's take a look at direct FF sequels as well as Gran Turismo, Sly Cooper, and Ratchet and Clank just for grins and giggles.

I don't think FFXIII-2 and Lightning Returns are the best sales indicators. Final Fantasy X was pretty much Japan's favorite Final Fantasy Title of all time. Final Fantasy XIII had a pretty poor reception. Makes sense that more people wanted a follow up to X than XIII. Do you really expect Final Fantasy XV to sell 500k LTD because Lightning Returns couldn't manage that number?

Ratchet and Clank suffered the same cross generation fate as Professor Layton or Crash Bandicoot

 

[jeremy1456]

I don't think FFXIII-2 and Lightning Returns are the best sales indicators. Final Fantasy X was pretty much Japan's favorite Final Fantasy Title of all time. Final Fantasy XIII had a pretty poor reception. Makes sense that more people wanted a follow up to X than XIII. Do you really expect Final Fantasy XV to sell 500k LTD because Lightning Returns couldn't manage that number?

Ratchet and Clank suffered the same cross generation fate as Professor Layton or Crash Bandicoot

I expect XV to be at 1-1.5 million.

 

[braves01]

It must be unusually cold in Japan right now. That's the only way to explain these numbers. Real talk though, if I were Nintendo, I'd be really concerned about how 3DS numbers have been slipping relative to Vita over the past few months.

 

[B.O.O.M]

So Wii u doing horribly is not indicative of the home console market and the ps4's numbers are also not indicative of the home console market in japan? Gotcha!

WiiU has been in the market for well over a year. It has also failed msierably in the west. It just an indication that it's a very weak product without appeal..it's not unique to the Japanese market. Nintendo has already released lot of their heavy hitters on the system. This is a simple point to understand...if you are capable of snarky comments this shouldn't be beyond your comprehension.

PS4's sales in the first three weeks of launch when sony or third parties haven't yet made a significant push for it is not indicative of the market either. If like with wiiu the sales don't improve with software releases, then yeah. I don't blame the Japanese fans for taking a wait and see approach, especially with so many pubs releasing games for PS3 still.

So I hope you 'get' those points too. If not please make a detailed counter argument or stop wasting my time

 

[Busaiku]

What was the PSP Kuroko's Basketball's LTD?

 

[jeremy1456]

WiiU's has been in the market for well over a year. It has also failed msierably in the west. It just an indication that it's a very weak product without appeal..it's not unique to the Japanese market. Nintendo has already released lot of their heavy hitters on the system. This is a simple point to understand...if you are capable of snarky comments this shouldn't be beyond your comprehension.

PS4's sales in the first three weeks of launch when sony or third parties haven't yet made a significant push for it is not indicative of the market either. If like with wiiu the sales don't improve with software releases, then yeah. I don't blame the Japanese fans for taking a wait and see approach, especially with so many pubs releasing games for PS3 still.

So I hope you 'get' those points too. If not please make a detailed counter argument or stop wasting my time

What big exclusives are releasing this year for the PS4?

The situation is a lot more dire than you think.

 

[B.O.O.M]

What big exclusives are releasing this year for the PS4?

The situation is a lot more dire than you think.

Read above..I said the proper transition by devs and pubs in Japan won't happen that fast and the situation won't improve until 2015 or so

I am someone who argued sony should delay the JP launch and focus on the west, even before they revealed the launch dates for the system. Japan is rather slow with these generation transitions compared to the west.

It's not all about the short term, sony, at least with the ps4, have their priorities straight

 

[Yaoibot]

It must be unusually cold in Japan right now. That's the only way to explain these numbers. Real talk though, if I were Nintendo, I'd be really concerned about how 3DS numbers have been slipping relative to Vita over the past few months.

Vita has some fun games, particularly a richer and more diverse library over in Japan. Plus, the technology simply is aging better. I think Vita could be a late-bloomer, and get a MH like rise from who knows what game - possibly even a MH 5 - later in this gen.

 

[Busaiku]

Japan is rather slow with these generation transitions compared to the west.

This isn't true. In fact, it's the opposite.

 

[jeremy1456]

Read above..I said the proper transition by devs and pubs in Japan won't happen that fast and the situation won't improve until 2015 or so

I am someone who argued sony should delay the JP launch and focus on the west, even before they revealed the launch dates for the system. Japan is rather slow with these generation transitions compared to the west.

It's not all about the short term, sony, at least with the ps4, have their priorities straight

I was confused because you kind of admitted the Wii U was a failure because of its first year performance, and then said for the PS4 that the first year doesn't matter.

 

[Griss]

3 weeks in and people are already calling for the chalkboard.

Don't you ever change, GAF. Don't you dare.

Spoiler

But seriously, consoles are fucked in Japan.

 

[B.O.O.M]

This isn't true.

Looks pretty evident to me, at least with home consoles this gen. West is transitioning much faster

I was confused because you kind of admitted the Wii U was a failure because of its first year performance, and then said for the PS4 that the first year doesn't matter.

It has been well over a year. And WiiU already had 2d mario games, 3d mario games, donkey kong etc released on it. Sales still suck. Not comparable at all

Seriously how is this so hard to understand? lol If major releases on PS4 doesn't improve it's situation in Japan then right on, it's a failure too

 

[jeremy1456]

Looks pretty evident to me, at least with home consoles this gen. West is transitioning much faster



It has been well over a year. And WiiU already had 2d mario games, 3d mario games, donkey kong etc released on it. Sales still suck. Not comparable at all

Seriously how is this so hard to understand? lol If major releases on PS4 doesn't improve it's situation in Japan then right on, it's a failure too

What major releases are you talking about? Aside from Kh and FF there's nothing big announced that isn't cross-gen.

The only thing that's hard to understand is why you're relying on what basically equates to 'secret PS4 game' to save the system.

There's very little evidence that these unannounced games you're throwing around won't release on PS3.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Monster Hunter 4 Gets Luffy And Zoro’s Weapons From One Piece

Capcom is so 2000 and late.

It's time for Youkai Watch collab.

 

[B.O.O.M]

What major releases are you talking about? Aside from Kh and FF there's nothing announced that isn't cross-gen.

and you think we already know majority of the upcoming releases? geez people..it has been three weeks! lol Like I said the proper results of devs/pubs transitioning won't likely be evident until well into next year..thanks to them still focusing on ps3.

I am not going to repeat that again

edit: saw your edit. What secret game? Are you actually joking around or something here? Do you think all the major third parties in Japan gonna abandon the ps4? I'm not expecting one game to turn fortunes around for a system...just that there will be a steady stream of releases for ps4 going forward and it will help sustain the sales. This will not happen properly until pubs/devs transition from ps3 which takes time.

I can't believe so many here are trying hard to equate the wiiu and ps4 situations lol

 

[Chris1964]

What was the PSP Kuroko's Basketball's LTD?

83k. 3DS will beat it.

 

[Tripon]

What major releases are you talking about? Aside from Kh and FF there's nothing big announced that isn't cross-gen.

The only thing that's hard to understand is why you're relying on what basically equates to 'secret PS4 game' to save the system.

Hey, using facts is against the rules!

 

[Principate]

Capcom is so 2000 and late.

It's time for Youkai Watch collab.

Please, this a manga that used to sell 3 million a volume last year and the year before that (that's every 2-3 months). and is still by far the biggest franchise in Japan .

 

[jeremy1456]

and you think we already know majority of the upcoming releases? geez people..it has been three weeks! lol Like I said the proper results of devs/pubs transitioning won't likely be evident until well into next year..thanks to them still focusing on ps3.

I am not going to repeat that again

Okay 'secret PS4 game' is going to save the system. I'm glad that problem is solved.

 

[Metallix87]

I was confused because you kind of admitted the Wii U was a failure because of its first year performance, and then said for the PS4 that the first year doesn't matter.

He's just saying that PS4 is destined to outsell Wii U in Japan because stuff.

 

[ambientmystic]

The first 3 weeks of PS4 sales is like the Wii U redux but seemingly worse.

Only difference is that the talking points for both sides of the divide have swapped around lol.

 

[Chris1964]

new relases

{2014.03.19}

[PSV] J-Stars Victory Vs # <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥6.980)
[PSV] J-Stars Victory Vs [Anison Sound Edition] <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥9.980)

[PS4] Nobunaga's Ambition Online: Tenka Mugen no Shou # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥8.190)
[PS4] Nobunaga's Ambition Online: Tenka Mugen no Shou [Treasure Box] <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥14.490)

[PS3] J-Stars Victory Vs # <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥7.980)
[PS3] J-Stars Victory Vs [Anison Sound Edition] <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥10.980)


{2014.03.20}

[3DS] Mario Party: Island Tour <ETC> (Nintendo) (¥4.800)
[3DS] Retro Game Challenge: 3-Choume no Arino # <ETC> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥5.480)
[3DS] Retro Game Challenge: 3-Choume no Arino [Bandai Namco Special] <ETC> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥7.480)
[3DS] Hero Bank <RPG> (Sega) (¥5.550)

[PSV] Phantasy Star Online 2 Episode 2: Deluxe package <RPG> (Sega) (¥5.229)
[PSV] Samurai Warriors 4 <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) (¥7.140)
[PSV] Pro Baseball Spirits 2014 <SPT> (Konami) (¥7.600)
[PSV] Hyperdimension Neptunia Re:Birth2 - Sisters Generation # <RPG> (Compile Heart) (¥6.090)
[PSV] Hyperdimension Neptunia Re:Birth2 - Sisters Generation [Limited Edition] <RPG> (Compile Heart) (¥8.190)
[PSV] Assassin's Creed III: Liberation (Ubi the Best) <ACT> (Ubisoft) (¥3.129)

[PSP] Pro Baseball Spirits 2014 <SPT> (Konami) (¥7.600)
[PSP] Chou Ezaru wa Akai Hana: Ookawa wa Mirai o Tsumugu <ADV> (HuneX) (¥6.825)
[PSP] Nayuta no Kiseki (PSP the Best) <RPG> (Nihon Falcom) (¥2.940)

[PS4] Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes <ADV> (Konami) (¥2.980)

[PS3] Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes <ADV> (Konami) (¥2.980)
[PS3] Samurai Warriors 4 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) (¥7.560)
[PS3] Samurai Warriors 4 [Anime Box] <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) (¥10.290)
[PS3] Samurai Warriors 4 [Treasure Box] <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) (¥13.440)
[PS3] Pro Baseball Spirits 2014 <SPT> (Konami) (¥7.600)
[PS3] Motto! SoniComi # <ADV> (Kadokawa Games) (¥7.140)
[PS3] Motto! Sonikomi [Limited Edition] <ADV> (Kadokawa Games) (¥9.240)
[PS3] Assassin's Creed: Connor Saga <ACT> (Ubisoft) (¥9.975)
[PS3] Assassin's Creed III (Ubi the Best) <ACT> (Ubisoft) (¥3.129)

[360] Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes <ADV> (Konami) (¥2.980)
[360] Zoo Tycoon <SLG> (Microsoft Game Studios) (¥6.195)

 

[B.O.O.M]

Okay 'secret PS4 game' is going to save the system. I'm glad that problem is solved.

Some of you nintendo fans need to stop catching feels and face reality

WiiU is not an indication on ps4 will perform in Japan. The system is selling like a joke even in the west. Third parties have given up on it almost completely. The system had ton of nintendo heavy hitters, price cuts, bundles etc etc over the year+ time in the market and the sales have still sucked

I will say the same for ps4 if it's in the same boat with time. It's called being logical and using proper context. You should use it some time

He's just saying that PS4 is destined to outsell Wii U in Japan because stuff.

Don't make me dig up that wiiu is destined to rule the JP market thread lol come on you guys are hilarious thinking there's a chance for wiiu to outsell the ps4 LT in Japan. You have already moved goal posts at least 3 times in this very thread. Still ain't happening unless wiiu turn things around in a big way

 

[Metallix87]

The first 3 weeks of PS4 sales is like the Wii U redux but seemingly worse.

Only difference is that the talking points for both sides of the divide have swapped around lol.

The big difference is that Wii U seemingly had content on the horizon to appeal to Japan (Monster Hunter 3G, Dragon Quest X Online, The Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3), but those seemingly didn't help much at all. PS4, on the other hand, seems to have absolutely nothing for Japan lined up for this year, so that should tell you all that you need to know.