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Media Create Sales: Week 31, 2013 (Jul 29 - Aug 04)

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Feb 11, 2007
21,700
0
0
nipponsalesage.blogspot.com
Misery loves company! Now fresh-faced warriors can enjoy the "Vanquish sold... what..." experience. Thankfully Rising was more of a net win in quality AND sales, but theres always the sour "how long is this company going to be around if this keeps up..." after-dinner mint for most Platinum outings, now paired with WiiU woe.
Cool?
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
22,885
0
865
29
theflyingthoughtsblog.wordpress.com
Misery loves company! Now fresh-faced warriors can enjoy the "Vanquish sold... what..." experience. Thankfully Rising was more of a net win in quality AND sales, but theres always the sour "how long is this company going to be around if this keeps up..." after-dinner mint for most Platinum outings, now paired with WiiU woe.
So...you're saying you're an horrible person. Good.
 

BlackJace

Member
Dec 24, 2011
16,521
0
0
Mobius
Misery loves company! Now fresh-faced warriors can enjoy the "Vanquish sold... what..." experience. Thankfully Rising was more of a net win in quality AND sales, but theres always the sour "how long is this company going to be around if this keeps up..." after-dinner mint for most Platinum outings, now paired with WiiU woe.
You're really interesting.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Apr 23, 2010
13,063
1
940
Evidence of owning God Hand is required proof for calling anyone else "horrible" in this situation.
 
Jul 24, 2013
804
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Misery loves company! Now fresh-faced warriors can enjoy the "Vanquish sold... what..." experience. Thankfully Rising was more of a net win in quality AND sales, but theres always the sour "how long is this company going to be around if this keeps up..." after-dinner mint for most Platinum outings, now paired with WiiU woe.
While I agree Platinum's questionable sales are going to hurt them, Bayo2 and W101 are all on Nintendo.

The only thing Platinum itself has to damage is relationship with Nintendo and their image as a developer.

All of the blame will be on Nintendo fans, and only on them, if this doesn't sell.
 

zroid

Banned
Nov 7, 2011
76,132
1
0
I'm glad the people giving in to maximum hype today will definitely have a great game to enjoy, but the unpleasant "why is no-one buying this?!" come down will be an equally fresh experience for that sudden and new subset of Platinum fanbase members.
So you think Platinum will have a new group of fans after this game? Sounds like a net win for the studio, actually.
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,528
0
0
Er Viewtiful Joe was on gamecube..it actually was best on gamecube so Kamiya fans have been on Nintendo platforms for a while not to mention the incredible RE2 cartridge port. Okami also had a Wii edition. The only kamiya game exclusive nintendo fans didn't get was bayonetta and it's hard to believe most people here only owned a Wii. There are also a lot of people excited about the game that don't even owna Wiiu.
 

Aquamarine

Member
May 24, 2012
18,812
119
650
While I agree Platinum's questionable sales are going to hurt them, Bayo2 and W101 are all on Nintendo.

The only thing Platinum itself has to damage is relationship with Nintendo and their image as a developer.

All of the blame will be on Nintendo fans, and only on them, if this doesn't sell.
A third-party developer like Platinum needs clients like Nintendo to give them constant funding.

If Platinum were to go without work for say... two years, they might have to shut down if they don't have enough savings.

You can't have all of this overhead without incoming revenues.

There's always a chance that, if Bayonetta 2 and The Wonderful 101 bomb, Platinum Games might not receive any more clients based on the poor sales of their software.

It's unlikely (considering the success of Metal Gear Rising with Konami), but they always run the risk. It would be best if they can establish a harmonious relationship with Nintendo, since NCL seems to be giving them a massive amount of creative freedom.
 
Jul 24, 2013
804
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Aside those Nintendo haters / dismissers, that wouldn't get a console from them no matter what you mean.
So called "Nintendo haters" could also people with no interest in Mario or Zelda.

Do you seriously think W101 is a system seller for them?

I personally will pick up WiiU for X and pretty much only for that, optionally FE x SMT.But I will do that later in the life cycle when the prices are at bargain level.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Apr 23, 2010
13,063
1
940
So you think Platinum will have a new group of fans after this game? Sounds like a net win for the studio, actually.
Lets hope theres 200k of new/old japanese ones total to match the 'bigger than Bayonetta' budget :/

Honestly, now the promotion wheel is finally rolling, what are peoples first week expectations? Vanquish was 60k, and I'm kinda hoping it can beat that with like 70k-80k? Or the pessimistic side of me is whispering "sub 50k bomba". Who to trust.
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,528
0
0
Lets hope theres 200k of new/old japanese ones total to match the 'bigger than Bayonetta' budget :/

Honestly, now the promotion wheel is finally rolling, what are peoples first week expectations? Vanquish was 60k, and I'm kinda hoping it can beat that with like 70k-80k? Or the pessimistic side of me is whispering "sub 50k bomba". Who to trust.
Right now i'm thinking 30-40k first week. 90-100k ltd
Like I said anything under 100k first week for W101 is a commercial failure.
It doesn't matter if it's 30,40,50,60,70k.

This is a high budget game, not Mind=Zero.
Not really. If the game can break even it doesn't need to sell as much as Bsayonetta particularly because the bill is footed by nintendo so the royalty fees are going to the publisher anyway.
 

Cosmozone

Member
Oct 10, 2005
4,389
0
0
Europe
So called "Nintendo haters" could also people with no interest in Mario or Zelda.
And why? Because they're Nintendo franchises? They're very different genres. Or the old kiddy argument?

Do you seriously think W101 is a system seller for them?
They say "not for one game" for each good game that comes out. That's pretty evident, at least if you want to believe GAF posters. But there's undeniably more than one worthwhile game in its lifetime. So, they could adjust the argument with "...that interests me". Which outs them as gamers with very narrow tastes.

I personally will pick up WiiU for X and pretty much only for that, optionally FE x SMT.But I will do that later in the life cycle when the prices are at bargain level.
That's also something I hear pretty constantly. As if a good game is worth less when it comes out on a Nintendo console. That's pretty arrogant.
 
Jul 24, 2013
804
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Like I said anything under 100k first week for W101 is a commercial failure.
It doesn't matter if it's 30,40,50,60,70k.

This is a high budget game, not Mind=Zero.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
23,613
2
1,130
That's also something I hear pretty constantly. As if a good game is worth less when it comes out on a Nintendo console. That's pretty arrogant.
I think its more that people dont want to invest a lot of money into a system just to play a few games.
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,528
0
0
So a new IP from a developer with a history of commercial disappointments should sell more than Pikmin 3?

Come on.
That's not what he is saying. It can't open that high, but the budget of the game means it will be a failure opening below that number. Nintendo never expected wiiu to bombs hard when they greenlit this game. I think it can sell less and still possibly break even worldwide but a sub 50k opening would surely be a failure.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Apr 8, 2005
15,737
4
1,500
twitter.com
That's not what he is saying. It can't open that high, but the budget of the game means it will be a failure opening below that number. Nintendo never expected wiiu to bombs hard when they greenlit this game. I think it can sell less and still possibly break even worldwide but a sub 50k opening would surely be a failure.
Your speculations = facts

Ok then.

Like I said anything under 100k first week for W101 is a commercial failure.
It doesn't matter if it's 30,40,50,60,70k.

This is a high budget game, not Mind=Zero.
Joke post, right?
 

Dragon

Banned
Jul 7, 2007
24,879
0
0
If DC does 180k first week in Japan and has a budget of 1 million, how is performing worse than that on a budget obviously many times bigger than that, anything but a financial disappointment for Nintendo/Platinum?
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Feb 11, 2007
21,700
0
0
nipponsalesage.blogspot.com
Based on everything we've heard about this game's budget you really think the game can sell so low and still pull a profit?
I have no idea- I do know it is incredibly premature to base the games financial success on 2 days sales in one region.

I would also add that if Nintendo really spent that much money on this game they are not really acting like it in terms of a heavy duty push (compared to even something like Pikmin 3)
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,528
0
0
Well apparently people dont think that much was spent on development because if any other game with a supposedly decent budget opened so low people would deem it a failure. I mean how low of a budget do you have to have to sell sub 50k and not be a failure.
 

Cosmozone

Member
Oct 10, 2005
4,389
0
0
Europe
I think its more that people dont want to invest a lot of money into a system just to play a few games.
It's a bit more than that, or else those people wouldn't constantly brag about it in posts. But yeah, it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. Bigger market would mean more games, of course. Smaller market, less games.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Feb 11, 2007
21,700
0
0
nipponsalesage.blogspot.com
Well apparently people dont think that much was spent on development because if any other game with a supposedly decent budget opened so low people would deem it aa failure
So just to get this straight, we are arguing over a hypothetical, completely arbitrary number for two days worth of sales in one region of the world.
 

metalslimer

Member
Jun 9, 2012
26,528
0
0
So just to get this straight, we are arguing over a hypothetical, completely arbitrary number for two days worth of sales in one region of the world.
Well we can project to the rest of the world, but this is a japanese sales topic, and let's not pretend the majority of the sales won't be in those first 2 days

So TW101 has a higher budget than Bayonetta, with Platinum even saying the game had 50% more resources than it.

Would people have considered a sub-100K two day debut good for that game?

Honest question.
Or even lower it to 50k since apparently its only speculation to assume that would be a bad opening. And let's not forget how low the potential is for sales in the west in comparison to bayonetta.
 
Mar 8, 2012
3,036
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So TW101 has a higher budget than Bayonetta, with Platinum even saying the game had 50% more resources than it.

Would people have considered a sub-100K two day debut good for that game?

Honest question.
Is this a ceterus paribus thing? What was the install base of of X360/PS3 when it launched, compared to that of Wii U? Any consideration given to Nintendo games not being as front-loaded as other games? etc
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Feb 11, 2007
21,700
0
0
nipponsalesage.blogspot.com
Is this a ceterus paribus thing? What was the install base of of X360/PS3 when it launched, compared to that of Wii U? Any consideration given to Nintendo games not being as front-loaded as other games? etc
The install base excuse is just that- sales are sales, whether you want to account for user base or not.

Now your second point is something I had in mind- comparing a PS3/360 titles first week to a Nintendo published and promoted game isn't always going to give you an accurate idea of the LTD, especially worldwide.
 
Is this a ceterus paribus thing? What was the install base of of X360/PS3 when it launched, compared to that of Wii U? Any consideration given to Nintendo games not being as front-loaded as other games? etc
If we account for a horrid situation, sure, even 50K looks good.

That said, if we're doing P/L and ROI here, these kinds of considerations aren't really relevant.

Also I would like to reject the notion that all Nintendo games have great legs. Looking at core titles like Pandora's Tower, Xenoblade, and The Last Story can help illustrate this.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Feb 11, 2007
21,700
0
0
nipponsalesage.blogspot.com
If we account for a horrid situation, sure, even 50K looks good.

That said, if we're doing P/L and ROI here, these kinds of considerations aren't really relevant.
I wonder if the porting costs Sega paid for the PS3 version are included in whatever hypothetical we are discussing here?
 
Jul 24, 2013
804
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What I don't understand is that when someone points that W101 kinda looks like something you would download on the E-Shop (which at first glance isn't that weird) everyone rushes to point it's high production value.

But...when we are talking about potential sales the high budget suddenly doesn't matter?
 

michaelius

Member
Jan 5, 2012
15,510
1,216
845
And why? Because they're Nintendo franchises? They're very different genres. Or the old kiddy argument?


They say "not for one game" for each good game that comes out. That's pretty evident, at least if you want to believe GAF posters. But there's undeniably more than one worthwhile game in its lifetime. So, they could adjust the argument with "...that interests me". Which outs them as gamers with very narrow tastes.


That's also something I hear pretty constantly. As if a good game is worth less when it comes out on a Nintendo console. That's pretty arrogant.
When you have platform or platforms that give you dozens of good games each year why would one care that he will miss a few that got released as Wii U exclusives when there are plenty of replacements fightning for your free time on other platforms ?

And that's merely time constraint.

Then you have money limitations - and the choice of dumping $400 on wii u with pikmin 3 or buying 7-8 more games for other platforms or new gpu for pc which will work for dozens of games.
 
What I don't understand is that when someone points that W101 kinda looks like something you would download on the E-Shop (which at first glance isn't that weird) everyone rushes to point it's high production value.

But...when we are talking about potential sales the high budget suddenly doesn't matter?
One is a P/L concern, the other is a marketing and perception issue.

Yes, it is possible to make a very expensive game that looks cheap, but that doesn't make low sales suddenly more profitable.

Edit: I think I misread your post.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Feb 11, 2007
21,700
0
0
nipponsalesage.blogspot.com
If we account for a horrid situation, sure, even 50K looks good.

That said, if we're doing P/L and ROI here, these kinds of considerations aren't really relevant.

Also I would like to reject the notion that all Nintendo games have great legs. Looking at core titles like Pandora's Tower, Xenoblade, and The Last Story can help illustrate this.
Absolutely, though even in the case of Xenoblade it had better legs than Bayonetta and most PS3/360 games.
 
Absolutely, though even in the case of Xenoblade it had better legs than Bayonetta and most PS3/360 games.
It is definitely possible.

Edit:

Code:
Bayonetta PS3

2009-10-26 	1 	138,430 138,430
2009-11-02 	8 	29,120 	167,550
2009-11-09 	17 	10,017 	177,567
2009-11-16 	24 	5,121 	182,688
2009-11-23 	0 	4,691 	187,379
2009-12-21 	0 	0 	196,150
2010-12-20 	0 	0 	206,142

Xenoblade:

2010-06-07 	1 	79,163 	79,163
2010-06-14 	5 	20,276 	99,439
2010-06-21 	21 	10,064 	109,503
2010-06-28 	28 	6,397 	115,900
2010-07-05 	30 	4,223 	120,123
2010-12-20 	0 	0 	141,059
I guess it's a bit better?
 
Jul 24, 2013
804
0
0
One is a P/L concern, the other is a marketing and perception issue.

Yes, it is possible to make a very expensive game that looks cheap, but that doesn't make low sales suddenly more profitable.

Edit: I think I misread your post.
Well, I meant that certain posters here bring up the budget issue as they see fit, instead of accepting W101 for an actually high budget title and every concern that comes with it.