Different people complain about things. News at eleven.
Also, how is it "toxic" for people to say concept art for a cancelled game looks ugly?
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Mega64 - "CANCEL METROID FEDERATION FORCE IMMEDIATELY!"
- Thread starter Setvan2734
- Start date
Also, how is it "toxic" for people to say concept art for a cancelled game looks ugly?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Okay? People saw concept art and didn't see a finished product. Here, Nintendo felt that this was something people would want to see and they didn't like it. It's not simply "oh, Metroid fans just don't appreciate anything."
direct_quote
Member
I swear Nintendo must get cold feet with the Metroid franchise all the time. How many rumored projects that were cancelled have we heard about? :/
Depends on what you consider a "cancelled project". IIRC we don't even know if Next Level Games' cancelled project was Metroid, people just assume it was based on a few pieces of concept art from one guy's portfolio.
you should check MamaRobotnik's articles out.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
direct_quote
Member
I'll check that out, thanks.
Yah it's not really that funny, and I feel people will use this as an excuse to trivialize concerns about Other M and/or people upset that Nintendo hasn't released another regular Metroid game in a while. At least indies are filling in the Metroid gap Nintendo has left.
I'm getting vibes of "it's just the hair" for people criticizing OG DMC fans being angry at the reboot.
Can we stop letting the sins of Other M cast a shadow on every other thing about the Metroid franchise (this is less directed at you and more in general)? Metroid is awesome. Samus is awesome. At first glance Federation Force doesn't look awesome but it shouldn't have (extra) shade thrown on it as a side effect of Other M existing
SMH
If they had, everybody who complained about Other M or Federation Force would complain about it, and trash Next Level Games anyway.
I mean, when you see the absurd hate that can spew in Metroid threads about the tiniest details, think about how a game with a Samus like this:
... would be received.
You have one group of people who'll go into holy war for any Metroid game that doesn't copy the Super Metroid canon, including for the silliest thing.
Next Level Games likes to play and turn around franchises given to them, look at what they did to the Mario crew in Mario Strikers. It would have been shot to Hell by so-called "fans" no matter what, the same "fans" that hate NES Metroid because it's too old, hate Metroid II because it's too linear or in black and white or without an automap, hate Fusion because of the Adam computer and linearity, hate Echoes because of the dual worlds and the corrosive air in the Dark World or the ammo for the beam, hate Corruption because Samus isn't stranded on a planet and communicates with people, hate Metroid Hunters and Metroid Pinball because they're spin-offs, and obviously hate Other M.
You know, the "fans" that like one or two games in the whole series and despise everything else.
You know? People would have been happy with that art style if the game was a 'standard' Metroid game (which it was going to be, as the original Next Level Game's Metroid concept was a 2.5D Metroid they was going to pitch to Nintendo but got push aside once Nintendo told them "Go make Luigi's Mansion 2!" and they were like "Welp, lets give that a shot guys
!"). The problem isn't that the 'fans' are pissed about anything not like Super Metroid/Metroid Prime.....they are mad due to not getting the game they wanted for over 8 years
. And its not like Nintendo said "We are done with the mainline series after Prime 3" or anything like that, they moved on to Other M a few years latter and that might as well been the Sonic 06 to the Metroid series; a game that is very, very polarizing for a number of reasons. Granted, Other M's quality is no were near close to 06 (Other M is a very polished game despite its many issues), but its impact was the same; shattered the series and making fans....livid, to put it lightly. But unlike Sonic 06 where we got Unleashed, Colors and Generations making up for how bad 06 was, Metroid fans got nothing to make up for Other M, thus coming back to Federation Force. It might be a good game (heck, with Next Level behind it, I expect it to be a great game
!) but after so many years (5 if you count Other M, 8 if you don't count it) without a Metroid game, people didn't get what they wanted.That is why that silly petition was made; to show Nintendo that they don't WANT Metroid spin-off, they want a full-on Metroid game. Was the anger justified? No, I don't think so; Next Level is a great developer for starters, so that will lead to Federation Force being a good/great game. Secondly, the 'Prime' label being used again after 8 years means a new console game is coming (similar to the Prime Pinball and Prime Hunters Spin-offs), likely on NX next year. Lastly, while not 'Metroid', people who love the series have a lot of games to play that fill that empty 'hole'.
Between Kickstarter games that look to really play with the Metroid formula, games that heavily mirror the NES game like Axiom Verge, or games like Guacamelee or Shantae: Pirates Curse that while not copying the formula 1-to-1, have elements from the series present in creative ways; the spirit of Metroid is very alive and well.
Nintendo being behind the curve with the series is just this "Oh well :l". The series had some damn fantastic entrees that are ground breaking in the world of gaming; Super Metroid still is an amazing game, the Prime Trilogy is one of the best re-boots in gaming history and the original NES game alongside the GB/GBA games really show how timeless the series formula really is. I'm happy with those games, so I don't care what Nintendo does with the series going forward; it ended after Prime 3 for me and that's cool
. Looking foward to Federation Force and hoping that Prime NX is fantastic
.I know someone who has't played any Prime game and was so pissed that it wasn't metroid prime 4 that he signed the petition. Told him to play Prime Trilogy and he just said, "ehh"
goddammit bro
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
I mean, the petition is ridiculous, but most folks on gaming side have at least one franchise that they're passionate about. We are on a gaming discussion board, after all.
For Metroid fans, there's been one new release in eight years, and the follow up is apparently "3 VS. 3 SCI-FI SPORTS BATTLES." It's fine if people want to have such an experience, but it's pretty slim pickings as the lone release since Other M. People complain about Final Fantasy development cycles, but the FF release pace is, by comparison, quicker than Lighting.
For Metroid fans, there's been one new release in eight years, and the follow up is apparently "3 VS. 3 SCI-FI SPORTS BATTLES." It's fine if people want to have such an experience, but it's pretty slim pickings as the lone release since Other M. People complain about Final Fantasy development cycles, but the FF release pace is, by comparison, quicker than Lighting.
CreatureX3
Member
Lol. What a perfectly hilarious video by Mega64 on the embarrassing reaction to Federation Force by some people.
That's where they got me.
"Bringer of false Metroid: Terminated"
That and where the deadly female assassin just straight up puts a knife in the devs heart.
Simbabbad
Member
That's not my experience, though. What I'm telling you is that at any release, people are bitching. Even when VC games are re-released, people are negative about anything not Super Metroid or Zero Mission, and even then the emulation better be 100% perfect, or it's a blasphemy of gigantic proportions. People who prefer Fusion or whatever game to Super Metroid are met with over the top antagonistic replies, etc.The problem isn't that the 'fans' are pissed about anything not like Super Metroid/Metroid Prime.....they are mad due to not getting the game they wanted for over 8 years
I don't see this to that extent with any other series, and it explains that I don't really discuss the series online, it's a miserable experience.
So it amuses me that suddenly the bashed artwork from Next Level Games becomes the signal of a great game, after we know it won't happen (if it really ever was an actual project).
People are that upset
? Guess I was wrong then, so sorry for making that long post. At least you know my stance on the whole thing . I know the Sonic community is very divided at times but man, didn't think the Metroid community was that divided too
.....I laughed a bit.
You know the game won't sell if older people are already bashing on the game the way they are.
From my experience, kids play what older kids play. And older kids rely on reviews or responses from adults on how it is.
Long story short, as long as the hate lasts the game will fail.
You know the game won't sell if older people are already bashing on the game the way they are.
From my experience, kids play what older kids play. And older kids rely on reviews or responses from adults on how it is.
Long story short, as long as the hate lasts the game will fail.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
I like their message that telling Nintendo to cancel Federation Force is dumb, but the video itself wasn't all that funny or enjoyable, unfortunately. I'm a fan of Mega64, but this is one of their weaker videos of late.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Mhmm. If Nintendo wants to salvage this game, they must:
1. Release demos to win people over.
2. Really crunch on the graphics - improve the art style some and DEFINITELY make it look like a good 3DS game by release.
3. Make sure that we don't see any shitty naming conventions, like calling an enemy "Ice Beast".
4. And perhaps more importantly than making the game good, Nintendo has to assure fans that there's more to come with the franchise.
To be fair, it used to be my least favourite game ever. Now it's only my third!
Simbabbad
Member
In my experience, yes (don't know about GAF specifically, wasn't around years ago). And it's especially painful when you like all the games in the series like I do. To me it's not surprising Nintendo stopped making them.People are that upset
I stick by my analysis: this is a failing of Nintendo's brand cultivation. They want to have distinct, instantly recognizable characters and names that convey certain game experiences. Sparse releases are a part of this. But at a certain point, you've got to give the fans some water or they go mad from thirst.
All that said this video is great. Mega64 puts out quality stuff.
All that said this video is great. Mega64 puts out quality stuff.
mr teaspoon
Member
It's definitely funny.
I simply think they're completely lost after Other M bombing and the fans despising it for being put out (Which they probably still don't get why). They're simply throwing mud against the wall at this point.
I know people talk about great Metroid like games from indies, but they all feel pretty much the same to me. They're not memorable and all kinda blend together after a while. Last Miyamoto said that there are lots of people that hold the series in high regard. When I look at Federation Force, I can't help but feel those people are not at Nintendo.
I think something else people forget about Metroid is that the growth of the series has not been really big. In fact, it has barely grown at all since its inception. The series is in desperate need of growth if it is to survive outside of handhelds and 2D releases. Side games are one way to increase brand awareness in hopes that people may transfer to mainline games, but this also means Nintendo will need to be more committed to keep the franchise fresh within people's minds.
Tanabe described this game almost like it's meant to be a segue into the next mainline Metroid Prime title and I do hope that is the case. The outrage about this game has honestly been embarrassing to watch unfold.
Tanabe described this game almost like it's meant to be a segue into the next mainline Metroid Prime title and I do hope that is the case. The outrage about this game has honestly been embarrassing to watch unfold.
Chie Satonaka
Member
It gets tiring.
I'm with you. It's flawed, but I had a lot of fun with it.
On topic, this video is hilarious.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
What part of "Other M praise will not be tolerated" do you guys not understand?
Video is perfect.
Video is perfect.
This should come in handy.
That part of the video wasn't a joke.
I mean, the petition is ridiculous, but most folks on gaming side have at least one franchise that they're passionate about. We are on a gaming discussion board, after all.
For Metroid fans, there's been one new release in eight years, and the follow up is apparently "3 VS. 3 SCI-FI SPORTS BATTLES." It's fine if people want to have such an experience, but it's pretty slim pickings as the lone release since Other M. People complain about Final Fantasy development cycles, but the FF release pace is, by comparison, quicker than Lighting.
Talk about shoving gameplay mechanics forcefully into an existing franchise. I bet Nintendo saw the game Next Level Games were making and were like... alright, throw a Metroid aesthetic on it and ship it in a few months (which they've done... a lot)
jediyoshi
Member
Then I'll say in aggregate, this specifically, isn't remotely the case at all. The fact that you're distinguishing separate 'parts' to this exactly runs counter to that. The typical extent of a beheading video is just what you've described, a stationary shot, someone speaking, a victim, and visual identifiers to a group in the background. What you're picking it isn't distinct from a typical, multishot/edited, propaganda piece.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Sometimes I wonder if this is a new Zelda cycle. Everyone started looking at Twilight Princess with less outrage once Skyward Sword pissed them off.
Maybe they just cobbled this game together because they want to make Other M 2, hahaha.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Is Other M a legitimately bad game, or is it just the usual drama queens being hyperbolic as usual?
I find it doubtful though. When Next Level Games were told that Nintendo would like them to make Luigi's Mansion 2 it was pretty much out of the blue. Tanabe said he had been thinking about Federation Forces for over 10 years now when he was developing the Prime games. Also Hunters is canon and the ship you saw at the end of Prime 3 was Sylux.
The first game in the series was actually the best selling, probably due to being a NES bundle.
But after that, the only growth Metroid saw was from Super Metroid to Prime. Prime actually did impressively for a franchise revival, again probably due to being a bundle. Then Prime 2 and Zero Mission sales dropped off a cliff compared to their predecessors, Prime 3 got barely any advertising and did just okay as a result, and Other M bombed.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
How is it a cycle? I know Fusion, Prime 2, and Prime 3 all got a fair amount of criticism for different reasons, but there's really nothing compared to the outright hate Other M got.
Think of it as the Final Fantasy XIII of the Metroid franchise.
The complaints about the two games are even pretty similar.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The story is universally regarded as trash for a myriad of reasons. Gameplay-wise is more contentious, but I think the best way to describe it would be as a Metroid-lite: there's very little exploration, becoming even more linear than Fusion was back in the day, and the combat is simplified to the point of instantly auto-targeting enemies.
It is legitimately a bad game that constantly tries to nullify the very heart and sole of what makes Metroid Metroid through the story and newly introduced mechanics.
WrenchNinja
Member
Yeah it was.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
It's not. That's why I said 'new'. Maybe I should've said 'the start of a cycle'.
Ah, right. Thanks for the correction! I probably should have said "since Super Metroid" instead
Yeah, Prime 1 and Super Metroid are/were pretty close in number IIRC around 2m sold? I think, it's been forever since I've last looked into that. Now, 2 million is a nice number, and we know Nintendo really knows how to budget a game well to get money back but I don't think that would be enough if people want a large and highly detailed worlds with pretty graphics, especially if it skips this generation and moves to their next console which would increase development cost even further.
It's rough.
direct_quote
Member
It's not a 'new" cycle. The arguments about Fusion's linearity doesn't magically disappear because time has passed. Other M's terrible plot and linearity doesn't go away with time either.
I think Mega 64 is just kind of being Mega 64 and lampooning the whole situation. They don't necessarily think the game is great or that Other M isn't bad.
I agree that signing a petition to get a game cancelled is dumb. For one, it's futile, for another, people worked on the game and some people may want it, so let it come out. Who's it going to hurt? It's just -- whatever.
I think the game looks horrible and is almost assuredly going to flop. I hate the game, in fact, but yeah, if you made it, release it. Knock yourselves out.
And Other M is a game I hate with a white hot passion. The only other game I can think of off hand that I actually hate is Watch Dogs, but with Other M the height goes higher because while Aiden is just some random douche with an iconic hat they made up, with Other M they actually ruined a good thing.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
About the only criticism that has died over time seem to the Metroid Prime 3 controls.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
I mean, the petition is ridiculous, but most folks on gaming side have at least one franchise that they're passionate about. We are on a gaming discussion board, after all.
For Metroid fans, there's been one new release in eight years, and the follow up is apparently "3 VS. 3 SCI-FI SPORTS BATTLES." It's fine if people want to have such an experience, but it's pretty slim pickings as the lone release since Other M. People complain about Final Fantasy development cycles, but the FF release pace is, by comparison, quicker than Lighting.
But it's not 3 v. 3 sci-fi sports battles. That's the side mode. The main mode is a co-op mission based thing.
It actually was, and I have explained multiple times in this thread why it was a bad game and most people's minds are made up and refuse to recognize that the game they love is actually bad.
Metroid sold 2.73 million, Prime sold 2.78 million... So I was actually off when I said the first game sold the most. Huh.
And yeah, it's rough. I'd be fine with lower budget 2D Metroids. I feel like a 2D handheld title in the vein of Metroid Fusion or Zero Mission would be cheap to make and much appreciated.
I should really keep those threads bookmarked for future reference, haha. I guess I was off a bit too, lol.
EDIT: Agreed. A new 2D Metroid would very much be appreciated and shouldn't break the bank to create.
Gnome Scat
Member
Well that Metroid does look really disappointing though.
Edit: That video's hilarious.
Edit: That video's hilarious.