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Melatonin - is this real or just a placebo?

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my understanding is that there's no evidence that it works, but just because there's no evidence that it does doesn't mean that it doesn't. I personally think it's placebo, but I've not any literature on it.
 
i have been taking it for 3 years now. I used to always wake up every night at 4 in the morning and have a tough time falling back asleep. This keeps me asleep now, have had great sleeps since I started.

I remember when I started taking it the dreams were super vivid. I don't know if I'm just used to how vivid they are now, or if that slowed down.
 
SteveMeister: I'm not 100% sure, but your thinking sounds reasonable.

genjiZERO said:
my understanding is that there's no evidence that it works, but just because there's no evidence that it does doesn't mean that it doesn't. I personally think it's placebo, but I've not any literature on it.
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There is very, very good evidence that it works. A Pubmed search will result in hundreds of articles on not only clinical studies, but on the underlying biological circuits and the molecules mechanism of action. Wikipedia may dispute this though! ;)

The in-vitro neural data is very persuasive, but without getting uber nerdy some of the best evidence that it works is from the med chem field (drug designers) new chemical entities which use the same mechanism, but are much stronger and yield great effect. (ie. melatonin has a short-half life and is just a weaker molecule in terms of it's binding to the melatonin receptor, MT1/2).

Takeda's Ramelteon is what I have in mind, but Tasimelteon also is an example.
 
Um OP? How the hell could it be a placebo effect when you're increasing the amount of a naturally occurring chemical in your body, one that directly causes drowsiness? I'm just curious as to how you could possibly think that.

It's like "Hey guys, I just took some adrenaline and only felt a little more energetic. Is it a placebo effect?"

If a chemical has a direct effect(sometimes 1 to 1) on your body's systems, it's not a placebo in any possible regard. Unless there's a cap or reverse effect when maxed out, of course, but that's fairly rare with common compounds.
 
Chet Rippo said:
For some reason I thought the thread title was

Melanin - is this real or just a placebo.
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images-1.jpg
 
Rur0ni said:
What kind of vivid dreams are we talking about? More lucid?
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Mudkips said:
What kind of lucid dreams are we talking about? More vivid?
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:lol

Never tried melatonin, I'm tempted though. I've always have sleeping problems (stay up all night, sleep all day). I just don't like to mess with my body's chemistry though...
 
BigSicily said:
SteveMeister: I'm not 100% sure, but your thinking sounds reasonable.



There is very, very good evidence that it works. A Pubmed search will result in hundreds of articles on not only clinical studies, but on the underlying biological circuits and the molecules mechanism of action. Wikipedia may dispute this though! ;)

The in-vitro neural data is very persuasive, but without getting uber nerdy some of the best evidence that it works is from the med chem field (drug designers) new chemical entities which use the same mechanism, but are much stronger and yield great effect. (ie. melatonin has a short-half life and is just a weaker molecule in terms of it's binding to the melatonin receptor, MT1/2).

Takeda's Ramelteon is what I have in mind, but Tasimelteon also is an example.
Click to expand...

As someone for which placebos have never worked, I can attest that melatonin does do something. I have also been on Ramelteon, which I believe, doesn't really work until you go to bed/sleep. It's not like a sleeping pill or something in cough medicine that knocks you out, but something that aids in reaching deeper sleep.

I think there should be some more talk about the dream changes and the side effects. Melatonin has given me very sunny dreams or dreams with lots of yellow in them. I didn't understand why until I thought about the day/night cycle. It would be curious if the melatonin is somehow triggering my thoughts upon day/night cycles and tainting my dreams with sun images and sun colors.

Other than the dreams, melatonin can give you stomach problems and I have also had it cause a metallic tastes in my mouth. Because of these things, I rarely take it for more than three days straight.
 
Real.

I use it every now and then to reset my circadian rhythm.

It helps combat the negative effects of exposing your eyes to light during what should be dark/night hours(computer monitors at night). Basically it can cure light induced insomnia.
 
I have been taking 9mg every night for the past few weeks as a portion of my cluster headache treatment. I haven't had any noticeable reduction in pain, but I have slept a lot heavier.
 
Technosteve said:
if i can't sleep i use NyQuil it contains a drug call Alcohol
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I remember my roommate and his friend doing either nyquil or Robitussin in large amounts so they would 'trip'

I most clearly remember one of them sitting on the couch and getting angry and talking shit. Then finally trying to stand up and fight me. Next was me pushing them back down with one finger. Shit repeated like 20 times. haha.
 
I read this shit was pretty terrible for your body and its not doing anything your body doesn't do on its own.
I'm glad it works for some, but the side effects and risks scared me off. I just avoid caffeine and that does the trick on night when I need to operate like a human ans sleep.

Maybe the research I did was bunk?

EDIT: I imagine a sun lamp alarm would be sweet on its own.
 
BudokaiMR2 said:
I remember my roommate and his friend doing either nyquil or Robitussin in large amounts so they would 'trip'

I most clearly remember one of them sitting on the couch and getting angry and talking shit. Then finally trying to stand up and fight me. Next was me pushing them back down with one finger. Shit repeated like 20 times. haha.
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Yea tussen makes you trip, not nyquil. doesn't make you angry from my pretty extensive experience with it though.
 
As I got older, I started having a harder and harder time falling asleep, plus I have had some nagging lingering long term pain from a surgery years ago which would keep me up at times....

I've been taking melatonin for years, it really does help me fall asleep faster, and then deeper.

I've also started taking valerian root with it, knocks me out usually with in 30 minutes guaranteed if I go sit in a comfy chair on lay down on the couch....

I take it at about 9 to 9:30 pm, if I wait and take it later at night I do feel more groggy in the morning...
 
Trazodone, brah.

Non-habit forming, $5 a bottle, and makes me sleep like a baby.

Used melatonin for a bit and it didn't really do anything but give me more vivid dreams, and the sleep that I did get never felt very deep for some reason.
 
I took melatonin before I knew what it was supposed to do and it definitely gave me extremely strange and vivid dreams, which is pretty rare for me, so I don't think it's placebo.
 
My doctor seems to think it works since she has prescribed it to me a couple of times.

And IMO it works. The dreams are nice and you can get a nice, deep sleep with it.
 
genjiZERO said:
my understanding is that there's no evidence that it works, but just because there's no evidence that it does doesn't mean that it doesn't. I personally think it's placebo, but I've not any literature on it.
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Most likely because it appears to effect people differently. For me, I take 1/4 of a 2mg tab an hour before I want to sleep. By the time that hour rolls around, my eyes are heavy feeling, like I've been in a smoke filled room all day, or that I drank two beers and stopped, or had a huge turkey dinner, or I just got stoned or something. It just drains me after an hour and I HAVE to sleep. With my girlfriend, it doesn't do anything. We've tried low doses, we've tried higher doses... nothing. I don't know why that is.

One other side effect it has with me is, it makes everything 'comfy' .. Like when you wake up on a cold winter day and your bed is warm as hell, and you don't want to get out because it just feels warm and awesome and comfy. It makes me feel like that when I slide into bed. I don't have vivid dreams, though. I am VERY groggy if I don't get at least six hours sleep with it. And it doesn't particularly make me feel energetic the next day. But it does get me to sleep if I'm under stress or my internal clock is out of sync.
 
My first night using it I took 1mg and I don't think it did anything. I actually slept worse than I usually do. So the next night I took 2mg and it might've had an affect. Usually on weekends I get woken up early by my family but this time I slept through their noise and I managed to get my 8 hours. Maybe it's worth mentioning that I wasn't completely rested as later in the day I fell asleep studying. This was also after a night of drinking. I took 3mg last night and got about 7 hours. I woke up to my alarm and I was just as tired as I would've been if I didn't take melatonin (which is pretty damn tired so I snoozed for a bit). Last night I definitely had a more vivid dream than I tend to have. In fact it feels like I haven't been dreaming at all the past few months.

So I guess my question is, should I take an even greater dose so I don't wake up tired? Or is the melatonin responsible for me waking up tired since I have to interrupt such a deep sleep?
 
Just received my shipment today (in AU), 2x 180 caps @ 3mg (as well as some 5-HTP) and it was opened for inspection by customs but nothing removed at all. Eager to try this tonight as the troubles I've been having have persisted for a short while now.

If I can wake up feeling refreshed without feeling the need to sleep on the train or be in a shitty mood, I'll be happy.
 
got my melatonin the other day (it isn't freely available here) but it sounded interesting :D
It certainly helps me fall asleep and sleep deeper (at least it feels that way). Not sure about the vivid dreams as i usually dream pretty vivid anyways :lol
 
I work nights, and take it before sleeping.

I've found the more you take it- you build up a tolerance.

It does work if you don't overdo it though.
 
I take it and I feel that it works. While it doesn't make me drowsy or send me to sleep, it definitely gives me a better nights rest when i do fall asleep.
 
I should mention that there was a study in which they found that long term usage (6 months or more) can lead to temporary infertility due to its suppresive effects on estrogen production.
 
For me, it had the net effect that you would expect if it actually worked. Haven't been able to reproduce it the same way via other means. Placebo or not, the cost isn't prohibitive for me and the lack of functional alternatives drives me to keep using it.
 
Some quick googling says:

No it does not work.

Yes it's just placebo.

Stop wasting money(or just keep wasting money if it makes you feel good).


*edit*

Holy shit people thinks it cures everything :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

"Orally, melatonin is used for jet lag, insomnia, shift-work disorder, circadian rhythm disorders in the blind, and benzodiazepine and nicotine withdrawal. Melatonin is also used orally for Alzheimer's disease, tinnitus, depression, delayed sleep phase syndrome (DSPS), chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), fibromyalgia, migraine and cluster headaches, idiopathic stabbing headache, and insomnia associated with attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). Other uses include hypertension, hyperpigmentation, osteoporosis, breast cancer, brain cancer, lung cancer, prostate cancer, head cancer, neck cancer, and gastrointestinal cancer. It is also used for thrombocytopenia, cachexia, neuropathy, and asthenia associated with cancer chemotherapy. Melatonin is also used orally for epilepsy, as an antiaging agent, for menopause, as preanesthetic medication, and for birth control.
Transbuccal and sublingual forms of melatonin are also used for insomnia, shift-work disorder, and as preanesthetic medication.
Topically, melatonin is used as a skin protectant against ultraviolet (UV) light and sunburn.
Intramuscularly, melatonin is used for treating cancer."
 
i've been taking it regularly, getting up at 5am and going to sleep at 10pm, exercising a lot more, and i don't know, it's just helping me shed the pounds. this melatonin is a miracle drug. it's like, i just take the pill, keep a regular sleep schedule, exercise, and my life is turned upside down! you gotta get this pill.
 
In our pharmacy melatonin use is not very high, but seems to work better for some patients who don't respond as well to benzodiazepines (Valium and the likes...:lol ) One of the GPs in the area sometimes prescribes it as an alternative for insomnia and jet-lag.

As a pharmacist I should inform you that evidence of the general efficacy of melatonin on insomnia and sleep-related disturbances is not very strong. Some test are being performed with selective melatonin-receptor agonists (ramelteon and tasimelteon), but more results and trials are needed to provide a clear understanding of the mechanism of action of these substances on melatonin receptors.

Usually non-pharmacological methods are preferred to balance your sleep-rhythm. Just Google that shit for great tips.
 
beelzebozo said:
i've been taking it regularly, getting up at 5am and going to sleep at 10pm, exercising a lot more, and i don't know, it's just helping me shed the pounds. this melatonin is a miracle drug. it's like, i just take the pill, keep a regular sleep schedule, exercise, and my life is turned upside down! you gotta get this pill.
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You realise that your exercise and sleeping routine could be exclusively responsible for this?
 
akachan ningen said:
find some seroquel. most amazing wtf vivid dreams I've ever had.
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Yea, take an anti psychotic so you can have vivid dreams. :lol

I fucking hate seroquel, it turned me into a zombie and made me go from 200 - 265 pounds in like 6 months.
 
jakershaker said:
Some quick googling says:

No it does not work.

Yes it's just placebo.
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Argh. No. Don't trust what you read on google.

It's not merely a placebo artifact when the same molecule is intricately involved in SCN synchronization and downstream gene regulatory network activity. It was explained in a post on the previous page (here).

The 'problem' is that it's not a seroquel, it's a neurohormone, yet people expect it to be. The effects are much more subtle due to the molecule and it's Ki. The MT1/2 receptor itself is the same one hit by ramelteon and tasimelteon to great effect.

StevePharma said:
In our pharmacy melatonin use is not very high, but seems to work better for some patients who don't respond as well to benzodiazepines (Valium and the likes...:lol )

As a pharmacist I should inform you that evidence of the general efficacy of melatonin on insomnia and sleep-related disturbances is not very strong. Some test are being performed with selective melatonin-receptor agonists (ramelteon and tasimelteon), but more results and trials are needed to provide a clear understanding of the mechanism of action of these substances on melatonin receptors.
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I've never heard of such a correlation to GABAr, interesting if true. I don't immediately see why, but I'll sleep on it. Thanks!

Disagree with the categorization of ramelteon and tasimelteon as completely incorrect. The pathway has been extensively studied and elucidated in vitro and it's effectiveness in vivo has been verified through at least 4 longterm trials and FDA approval of Roserem.


EDIT: Zoltrix, sleep is funny and melatonin isn't a cure-all. You need to look at your sleep schedule and health in total: hours, stress, light exposure, etc; if you think you're getting enough and this one change produced an undesirable result, stop it. I'm not into the whole dream enhancement thing, so can't help too much.
 
Zoltrix said:
So I guess my question is, should I take an even greater dose so I don't wake up tired? Or is the melatonin responsible for me waking up tired since I have to interrupt such a deep sleep?
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Anyone?

I really love that I'm dreaming again / more vividly, but if this continues I think I'm only going to use it on weekends when I don't have to get up early.
 
Az987 said:
I fucking hate seroquel, it turned me into a zombie and made me go from 200 - 265 pounds in like 6 months.
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Seroquel is interesting as the views on it are very... polarized. It's a promiscuous molecule, it has affinity for a whole slew of receptors, but it's an open question what part of it's effectiveness is derived from this dirtiness and what part is from the typical dopamine blockade and serotonergic effect.

Unfortunately, it's often utilized incorrectly as many doctors are too stupid to understand that effectually it's an entirely different medication at 150mg Vs 600mg.
 
10mg is a shit-ton, I've read of effective doses in the 300mcg (.3mg) range. There's little doubt it's not a placebo--it's just not well-marketed due to lack of profit potential.


I've had insomnia since 8th grade give or take and the only thing that knocks me out nowadays are benzodiazepines, lots of alcohol, or seroquel.
 
jakershaker said:
Yes you do when the links go to quackwatch, and to sites which are reputable.

http://www.quackwatch.com/

Sure seems like placebo to me, if you don't find any good information stating otherwise.

In other words, it's placebo - deal with it.
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After a brief search @ quackwatch, I will agree that melatonin will not cure cancer, act as an AIDS therapy, act as a lifespan increasing agent, or is a miracle drug.

Thankfully, we weren't discussing this!

If you want to learn some stuff, drop the attitude and you can read this post and then search around http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed for more primary research on the topic.
 
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