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Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes gameplay demo

Tookay said:
Then explain why he took an arm that functioned perfectly in MGS2 and then replaced it with a mechanical one in MGS4.

Explain why Liquid Snake's voice took over Ocelot in MGS2.

Explain what the original point of his connection with The Sorrow was.
Click to expand...

They don't say and it doesn't matter really.

Its for the player, so that you and I know when which is speaking. He wasn't actually speaking with Liquid's voice. They didn't need to do it in MGS4 since he completely took on Liquid's personality full time in it.

The Sorrow is his father, that's all. They never used him as an explanation for anything related to Ocelot, ppl just came up with their own theories until KojiPro explained it outright in MGS4.
 
BadWolf said:
They don't say and it doesn't matter really.

Its for the player, so that you and I know when which is speaking. He wasn't actually speaking with Liquid's voice. They didn't need to do it in MGS4 since he completely took on Liquid's personality full time in it.

The Sorrow is his father, that's all. They never used him as an explanation for anything related to Ocelot, ppl just came up with their own theories until KojiPro explained it outright in MGS4.
Click to expand...

You're just being purposefully obtuse at this point.

We all know what the connection was meant to imply, and how the characterization of Liquid's control changed between MGS2 and 4 (there's no reason to switch the arms otherwise). The Database (which was published by Kojima Productions so could be considered canon) and MGS2 digital comics (probably not, but interesting nonetheless) both referred to the MGS2 incident as possession.

Just because Kojima retconned it doesn't mean the evidence of possession gets erased, or that he gets a pass for such a confusing story decision in the first place.
 
Hideo Kojima (via Twitter) said:
This time we unveiled trailer upon PAX. Japan was their early morning but for Europe it ended up with their midnight. I have to make up for Eurogamer with something.
Click to expand...

he sure likes to tease..
 
Black_Stride said:
Not even remotely impressed....this is very old tech, very very old tech.
1QGDu.jpg


SC5 does it even better.
Click to expand...

Yes it does, yes it does.

But that pic, like the one of the guy sneaking up to the tank, is probably waaaaay behind where they have FOX now. I'm confident the final results will outclass SCV :)
 
Tookay said:
You're just being purposefully obtuse at this point.

We all know what the connection was meant to imply, and how the characterization of Liquid's control changed between MGS2 and 4 (there's no reason to switch the arms otherwise). The Database (which was published by Kojima Productions so could be considered canon) and MGS2 digital comics (probably not, but interesting nonetheless) both referred to the MGS2 incident as possession.

Just because Kojima retconned it doesn't mean the evidence of possession gets erased, or that he gets a pass for such a confusing story decision in the first place.
Click to expand...

So the database is canon but the actual game isn't? Whatever, the explanation is there, it is simple and it makes sense. I provided a direct quote from the actual game and that is all that needs to be done.

Enjoy your bitching.
 
BadWolf said:
So the database is canon but the actual game isn't? Whatever, the explanation is there, it is simple and it makes sense. I provided a direct quote from the actual game and that is all that needs to be done.

Enjoy your bitching.
Click to expand...

You're down with the IMPLICATION that Ocelot's dad is Sorrow, even though it's never stated and only acknowleged in material outside the games, but you're not down with the implication that he was possessed at one point (even both these implications are confirmed in official material published by KojiPro). Talk about being selective.

EDIT: And I don't have to choose between the Database and the actual game, because the Database doesn't have to contradict what BB says in the epilogue (because what he says could relate to what happened post-MGS2 anyway). You're setting up a false dichotomy.

So yeah I'll enjoy my bitching about a dumb plot point and its history of retcons that you seem determined to sweep under the rug.
 
BadWolf said:
So the database is canon but the actual game isn't? Whatever, the explanation is there, it is simple and it makes sense. I provided a direct quote from the actual game and that is all that needs to be done.

Enjoy your bitching.
Click to expand...

I was actually reading up on the whole arm/possession debacle after I finished my MGS4 replay some time ago. From what I could gather MGS2 more or less did directly state that Ocelot actually did get possessed by Liquid (note: I haven't played MGS2 myself, just going by what I read on the MGS wiki), which was why he eventually chopped off the arm, and then used drugs and hypnotherapy to transplant Liquid's personality onto his own in order to.. uh.. fool the Patriots' AI. Or something like that. Either way, regardless of what's the correct explanation, it's convoluted and obtuse storytelling.

whitehawk said:
Wait, how did MGS4 win GAF GOTY 2012? 2012 isn't over, and MGS4 came out in 2008...
Click to expand...

I think it was just a poll where GAF voted again for GOTY for the preceding years, and MGS4 won GOTY '08 again.
 
Tookay said:
You're down with the IMPLICATION that Ocelot's dad is Sorrow, even though it's never stated and only acknowleged in material outside the games, but you're not down with the implication that he was possessed. Talk about being selective.

EDIT: And I don't have to choose between the Database and the actual game, because the Database doesn't have to contradict what BB says in the epilogue (because everything he says relates to what happened post-MGS2 anyway; you're setting up a false dichotomy. So yeah I'll enjoy my bitching about a dumb plot point.
Click to expand...

From MGS3's game script:

Snake: "EVA, I wanted to ask you about Ocelot..."
EVA: "Yeah, I know. He's pretty infatuated with you, isn't he?"
Snake: "That's not what I meant. Aren't the Ocelots an elite unit?"
EVA: "Yeah."
Snake: "Then how'd he get to be their commander? He can't be any older than
18 or 19. I can't believe he's already a major..."
EVA: "I heard from the Colonel that he's been given...special treatment."
Snake: "Special treatment?"
EVA: "Yeah. He's the son of some legendary hero or something."
Snake: "No wonder he seems to have the right stuff... So who is this legendary
hero, anyway?"
EVA: "Beats me."
Snake: "..."
EVA: "The Colonel never told me. All I heard was that his mother was supposedly
shot in the gut during battle and that he was born right there, bullets
whizzing past them."
Snake: "A pregnant women in the middle of a battle?"
EVA: "That's what I heard. They say that when the stitched her up, the scar was
shaped like a snake."
Snake: "Well, that's battlefield medicine for you. What about his father, this
legendary hero?"
EVA: "He didn't tell me. I don't think Ocelot's ever met his parents."
Snake: "Are they dead?"
EVA: "Maybe, I don't know. There were a lot of MIAs back then, during the last
days of the war. Ocelot probably would have ended up the same way. But he
was taken in and raised by GRU and Volgin."
Snake: "Because he was special?"
EVA: "That's my guess."
Click to expand...

Unless you plan on denying the love connection between the Boss and the Sorrow, the above should satisfy you in regards to who Ocelot's parents are.

That quote from Big Boss in MGS4 is as clear as anything can get and relates directly to Liquid and Ocelot as a whole, not what happened after MGS2.

Combichristoffersen said:
I was actually reading up on the whole arm/possession debacle after I finished my MGS4 replay some time ago. From what I could gather MGS2 more or less did directly state that Ocelot actually did get possessed by Liquid (note: I haven't played MGS2 myself, just going by what I read on the MGS wiki), which was why he eventually chopped off the arm, and then used drugs and hypnotherapy to transplant Liquid's personality onto his own in order to.. uh.. fool the Patriots' AI. Or something like that. Either way, regardless of what's the correct explanation, it's convoluted and obtuse storytelling.
Click to expand...

Play MGS2.

Even in MGS4 they refer to it as a 'possession' a few times before Big Boss explains it at the end.
 
So, I never played MGS4 and all this Ground Zeroes stuff sort of has me wanting to try it out. I see it gets some hate but I'm really tempted to give it a go. I have it updating on my PS3 right now, questioning whether I'll actually play it or not.

I guess I can give it a go and if I'm not feeling it I'll just stop playing.
 
Tookay said:
Then explain why he took an arm that functioned perfectly in MGS2 and then replaced it with a mechanical one in MGS4.

Explain why Liquid Snake's voice took over Ocelot in MGS2.

Explain what the original point of his connection with The Sorrow was.

The point is this stuff has been retconned to hell and back over 3 games and the fact that Kojima even was apparently unhappy with each explanation signals that maybe it wasn't the greatest story decision on earth.

And for what it's worth, the Database was published by Kojima Productions, so the argument could be made it is canon too.
Click to expand...

God, Nintendo and now Hideo Kojima move in mysterious ways...
 
gogojira said:
So, I never played MGS4 and all this Ground Zeroes stuff sort of has me wanting to try it out. I see it gets some hate but I'm really tempted to give it a go. I have it updating on my PS3 right now, questioning whether I'll actually play it or not.

I guess I can give it a go and if I'm not feeling it I'll just stop playing.
Click to expand...

You've played 1-3 right? You wont like it if you didn't.
 
slackboy72 said:
God, Nintendo and now Hideo Kojima move in mysterious ways...
Click to expand...

Kojima puts the Zelda timeline to shame in terms of crazy.

Though, to be fair, he hasn't created a mythology where there are three splits, one of which being a timeline where Solid Snake "fails."
 
gogojira said:
So, I never played MGS4 and all this Ground Zeroes stuff sort of has me wanting to try it out. I see it gets some hate but I'm really tempted to give it a go. I have it updating on my PS3 right now, questioning whether I'll actually play it or not.

I guess I can give it a go and if I'm not feeling it I'll just stop playing.
Click to expand...

Play it. It's worth playing, and if you enjoyed the other games in the series, it's a must play to see how it all ends. Hell, even though there's a vocal minority of Gaf that talks shit, there was a revote held for different years of gaming, looking back what should have been GoTY, well anyway, when revoting in 2012, Gaf once again said MGS 4 was the best game of 08'. So if it wasn't enough the first time, Gaf agreed once more.

I really, really suggest playing it. It's really a great experience, and a fun game.


Tookay said:
Kojima puts the Zelda timeline to shame in terms of crazy.

Though, to be fair, he hasn't created a mythology where there are three splits, one of which being a timeline where Solid Snake "fails."
Click to expand...

I don't get that. I mean he keeps adding more and more stuff to it, but it's not the complete bungled, clusterfuck of a mess that the Zelda one is. That franchise doesn't even need a timeline. Those games should be played for what they are, and as separate experiences with similar themes and some recurring names, that's all.
 
BadWolf said:
Play MGS2.

Even in MGS4 they refer to it as a 'possession' a few times before Big Boss explains it at the end.
Click to expand...

I'll play MGS2 as soon as the HD collection arrives (postal service, y u so slow?) ;)

But even if it was just drugs and hypnotherapy all along, it still doesn't explain why he removed Liquid's arm and replaced it with a cybernetic arm.
 
Black_Stride said:
Not even remotely impressed....this is very old tech, very very old tech.
1QGDu.jpg


SC5 does it even better.
Click to expand...

Honestly, this could be a much more economical way to do transparent clothing, which isn't actually something easy to do when you have an open world, and multiple characters.

Not saying SC5's isn't impressive. It is, but remember that there's much less to render in SC5.
 
Inorigo said:
Amanda.

Please don't let them have killed Amanda :(
Click to expand...

I think they
probably killed Paz. Chico has always had a crush on Paz, and from the voiceover in the trailer, Chico and Paz are imprisoned together in that military base.

He probably gave the information up because he knew that they might just torture her to death instead.
 
We promised you big names! Here's the first one. To help mark the 25th anniversary of Metal Gear, series creator Hideo Kojima will be at this year's Eurogamer Expo to deliver one of our many famous developer sessions.

Kojima will be on stage on the afternoon of Thursday 27th September. The latest Metal Gear title, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, will also be playable on the show floor - along with every previous Metal Gear title in a special anniversary showcase.

"We're amazingly pleased and humbled that Konami and Hideo Kojima have decided to celebrate Metal Gear's 25th anniversary at the Eurogamer Expo," said Eurogamer events director David Lilley in words that sound suspiciously like I wrote them for him.

Kojima himself was unavailable for comment, although judging by his latest tweets he is celebrating with some excellent-looking food.
Click to expand...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-07-hideo-kojima-to-speak-at-eurogamer-expo-2012

Kojima recent tweet:

This time we unveiled trailer upon PAX. Japan was their early morning but for Europe it ended up with their midnight. I have to make up for Eurogamer with something.
Click to expand...
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/j53mbd

MARK YOUR CALENDARS.
 
ASTROID2 said:
You've played 1-3 right? You wont like it if you didn't.
Click to expand...

Played MGS and MGS2, never played the third. It's a prequel, right? I guess I didn't figure it'd impact my experience much. It's worth noting that I don't honestly know what the hell is going on with the story anyways as it's been so many years since I've played an MGS.

I think the last one I played was the MGS remake on Gamecube. I'd like to get back into the series though, so if it's crucial that I play through MGS3 first, I'll hold off.
 
gogojira said:
Played MGS and MGS2, never played the third. It's a prequel, right? I guess I didn't figure it'd impact my experience much. It's worth noting that I don't honestly know what the hell is going on with the story anyways as it's been so many years since I've played an MGS.

I think the last one I played was the MGS remake on Gamecube. I'd like to get back into the series though, so if it's crucial that I play through MGS3 first, I'll hold off.
Click to expand...

MGS3 is a prequel, telling Big Boss' story. It's not really required to have played MGS3 before playing MGS4.
 
gogojira said:
Played MGS and MGS2, never played the third. It's a prequel, right? I guess I didn't figure it'd impact my experience much. It's worth noting that I don't honestly know what the hell is going on with the story anyways as it's been so many years since I've played an MGS.

I think the last one I played was the MGS remake on Gamecube. I'd like to get back into the series though, so if it's crucial that I play through MGS3 first, I'll hold off.
Click to expand...

Jest make note the character you play in mgs3 is big boss. You can probably wait but play it at some point it's great.
 
I remember someone kept arguing with me that 3 wasn't a prequel. I said I was like a bit disappointed we weren't picking up with Snake and Raiden right from 2's end. They kept telling me that 3 was integral to the story, and made sense as the next game. I agreed to that, but it still didn't change the fact that 3 is indeed a prequel, at least in the timeline sense, but they wouldn't even give me that, just kept dancing around what they said earlier.

Weird and totally lame story, but kind of funny at the time.
 
no way it's realtime, all the time....

My 670 gtx pc could barely handle that animation/shadowing....first 10 minutes were cg....

Coming from a lifetime MGS Fan.
 
Izick said:
I remember someone kept arguing with me that 3 wasn't a prequel. I said I was like a bit disappointed we weren't picking up with Snake and Raiden right from 2's end. They kept telling me that 3 was integral to the story, and made sense as the next game. I agreed to that, but it still didn't change the fact that 3 is indeed a prequel, at least in the timeline sense, but they wouldn't even give me that, just kept dancing around what they said earlier.

Weird and totally lame story, but kind of funny at the time.
Click to expand...

The worlds jest filled with weirdos. I knew a kid in school that said he had played every zelda game and thought you played as zelda.
 
gogojira said:
Played MGS and MGS2, never played the third. It's a prequel, right? I guess I didn't figure it'd impact my experience much. It's worth noting that I don't honestly know what the hell is going on with the story anyways as it's been so many years since I've played an MGS.

I think the last one I played was the MGS remake on Gamecube. I'd like to get back into the series though, so if it's crucial that I play through MGS3 first, I'll hold off.
Click to expand...

Definitely play MGS3 before MGS4.

MGS4 has a ton of spoilers for MGS3 and references events and characters from it often.
 
echothreealpha said:
Honestly, this could be a much more economical way to do transparent clothing, which isn't actually something easy to do when you have an open world, and multiple characters.

Not saying SC5's isn't impressive. It is, but remember that there's much less to render in SC5.
Click to expand...

That's an SC4 screen.

echothreealpha said:
I think they
probably killed Paz. Chico has always had a crush on Paz, and from the voiceover in the trailer, Chico and Paz are imprisoned together in that military base.

He probably gave the information up because he knew that they might just torture her to death instead.
Click to expand...

:(
Chico seems like a fucking punk (I've only played an hour or so of PW)
 
Solid warrior said:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-07-hideo-kojima-to-speak-at-eurogamer-expo-2012
Click to expand...

TGS and Eurogamer. September will be full of MGS news. :D

Vossler said:
no way it's realtime, all the time....

My 670 gtx pc could barely handle that animation/shadowing....first 10 minutes were cg....

Coming from a lifetime MGS Fan.
Click to expand...

As a lifetime MGS fan, you should know that Kojima never uses CGI in his games. All cutscenes are done in engine and realtime.

And btw, gtx670 could play that ~ 1080p without any problems.
 
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