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Metal Gear Solid V Has The Most Needless Sexualization Since Bayonetta (Spoilers)

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Mesoian said:
Let's put it this way

When the game reveals that isn't not that Quiet can't speak, it's that she doesn't speak, I was a little disappointed.
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I actually thought
the choice in not speaking was better than not being able to. She never spoke because she was protecting everyone, not because she couldn't. It does fall apart when she doesn't write or doesn't speak through Code Talker.
 
MGS having sexualized characters should be a suprise to no one who has ever played an MGS game. Either get off your high horse, or don't buy the game. Simple.
 
mindsale said:
Halfway through the game I can't tell what to make of Metal Gear V's depiction of women.

I have four options for help in the field right now.

1: A horse
2: A dog
3: A robot
4: A woman

Note the other choices are animals and machines.

The woman is clad only in a slight bikini top and torn tights. She positions herself suggestively (bent over) and often her cleavage takes center frame in shots (such as taking her in the helicopter). When left alone in my base she lays on her stomach and undoes the string of her top to reveal even more of her ample breasts. When in my helicopter during a mission-select sequence she will stretch with her butt facing Snake (and by extension, the spectator).

Her breasts have their own jiggle physics.

She does not speak. Her abilities include disappearing entirely. She takes commands without question.

Thus far, she's the only woman I've encountered in the game, beyond the name of Mother Base.

The men on Mother Base hate her and initially try to kill her but instead restrain her and keep her locked in a cell. Men who try to clothe her leave the encounter "breathing through tubes."

The reason she refuses to wear clothes is that she takes air and water through her skin.

Whereas in Bayonetta it can be argued that the voyeuristic posing and framing was Bayonetta taking charge of her sexuality, Quiet seems the victim of it. (Fitting, as she was experimented on). Often the camera feels like it is experimenting on her still.

I should note that I completely adore the character. She's absolutely badass, she's my favorite sidekick by a mile, and she's the most interesting character in the game by a landslide. But I feel a little odd that her only alternate attire are liquids applied to her near-naked body. I always feel like I'm leering at her, and the game encourages that.

Whereas watching Bayonetta I felt like the guy trying to avoid the aging stripper begging for private dances, looking at Quiet I feel like a creep hanging outside an ice cream parlor in a 1986 Chevrolet Astro.
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If she had one alternate costume that was like the one she wears in the opening cutscene, there would be zero issue.
 
Mesoian said:
There are smarter ways of doing it. When your idea to bring in the fanbase is to just take the clothes away from your female characters, you're being lazy and you need to figure out whether or not your stuff is good enough to sell if you don't adhere to the lowest common denominator.

NOW THAT BEING SAID, the audience you're describing does consist of a LOT of hardcore japanese gamers. So you're still right. The question then becomes, is your franchise afloat because of the people who into it for the cheesecake? Or is it because the package your creating is something that multiple can get behind?
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I don't understand, why is sex such a sin to you? This is game where you
recruit child soldiers, you butcher people and you take part in bloody massacres
all while earning points for doing so and being encouraged to do it. Why is the desire for sex such a sin when the desire for violence and death isn't? I don't think it's bad to find Quiet attractive. I don't think it's a problem that there are characters created for the purpose of being attractive.
 
actually now that i think about it, the way her boobs jiggle around like they are water balloons....has kojima seen a pair of tits move before?

it looks like they are made from the same material as a water bed
 
I haven't played the game yet, but there is cloth and material that let air and water through them. I can take a thin t-shirt, cover my nose and mouth, and still breath just fine.


The explanation of why she is not wearing much doesn't make sense to me.
 
I would say the MGS series actually had a pretty good track record of strong, interesting female characters. Barring the beauty and the beast unit who are all sort of shallow. It has also had a fair amount of male objectification. I'll need to finish V to see what's up with quiet.
 
jaxapollo said:
MGS having sexualized characters should be a suprise to no one who has ever played an MGS game. Either get off your high horse, or don't buy the game. Simple.
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It's a valid complain. She's one of the main characters and clearly bothers some people.

Doesn't mean you can't enjoy the game otherwise.

shandy706 said:
I haven't played the game yet, but there is cloth and material that let air and water through them. I can take a thin t-shirt, cover my nose and mouth, and still breath just fine.


The explanation of why she is not wearing much doesn't make sense to me.
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That's like... having a stuffy nose all over your body. Yuck.
 
I just came across the "Playing in the Rain" scene yesterday. That had to be the most cringeworthy thing I've ever seen in a video game. I was praying that no one walked into my room while that scene was on. I felt like I was watching one of those Japanese animes. Other than that I have no problem with Quiet, she had a lot of badass scenes in the game. That one was just too much though.
 
jaxapollo said:
MGS having sexualized characters should be a suprise to no one who has ever played an MGS game. Either get off your high horse, or don't buy the game. Simple.
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I'm a massive fan of the franchise but its really a new low as far as the series history goes. It crosses the line from silly cheesecake to disturbing objectification.

The whole game is also pretty weak in terms of characterization and emotional beats so her shortcomings stand out a lot more.
 
Mesoian said:
How can you enjoy the characters if your costume is done a month before the game comes out?

This is a problem that I have with cosplay in general, not necessarily Quiet cosplayers. And it mostly stems from me being a cosplayer that's over 30.

And yeah, she's okay. Just okay though. I would say people should demand more but, as people have said in this thread, a lot of people are just fine with straight up overt skinship.
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Eh, alotta people can see something and be like 'Oh my god that's my new main(In reference to a game like a MOBA or fighter)'. Maybe these women saw it and were like 'wow I want to dress up like her?'. Whether or not it's for attention due to how new the character is or how she looks is well..debatable.

And yeah, alot of people are fine with how she looks. I think she'd look cooler if she kept her XOF outfit though. But I also don't mind her current outfit...if that makes sense. Like I don't hate it, but I don't care for it.
 
Misterinenja said:
Metal Gear has a history of needlessly sexualizing men, women, mechs and of course, last but not least, guns.
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I've often seen Metal Gear as a satire of war rather than a glorification of it, and if Kojima's channeling Dr. Strangelove (and it's obvious he is), then sexual subtext is a huge part of that.
 
The Jackdog said:
actually now that i think about it, the way her boobs jiggle around like they are water balloons....has kojima seen a pair of tits move before?

it looks like they are made from the same material as a water bed
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The Fox Engine isn't able to render breast phsyics realistically.

/s
 
I don't agree with everything OP lists. It's ok that Quiet does not speak, takes commands, that the other soldiers on the base are afraid of her, and that she is a buddy among a horse, a dog, and a robot.

But I definitely agree that her costume is just plain dumb. I am all for sex in video games, and I don't even disagree with over-sexualized characters in games that are generally over-the-top. But in a game like MGSV that—despite the silly easter eggs—goes for a more serious note, the outfit is just out of place and plain dumb. A solider running through the jungle in a Bikini? It makes me feel like Kojima thinks that we are all horny 14-year-olds who need to see boobs and ass not matter how silly the justification is. At least he could have just owned the fact that Quiet's boobs and ass are the only reason why she looks like she looks. The silly explanation for her outfit is almost like an insult. (I am being hyperbolic here.)
 
Why is it that people have no qualms discussing what they don't like about MGSV (Sutherland replacing Hayter, lack of cutscenes, mission structure), but when it comes to the sexualization of Quiet it isn't seen as a legitimate complaint? I'm not judging anyone who enjoys Quiet's sexualization, but it's weird to me that criticism directed towards her is hand waved as people over reacting, whereas criticizing other narrative and artistic choices gets a different response.

On the topic itself, I haven't got far enough in the game to discover why she is dressed the way she is - and I'm mostly skimming this thread to avoid spoilers - but I do think that Quiet's portrayal is a bit problematic. It doesn't make MGSV a bad game, but there's no harm in discussing it.
 
IcyEyes said:
Thanks for the reply.
I see and I agree with you about this point.

So, what should be done in your opinion ?

Also, is it a problem if a badly dressed girl (yeah, I really dislike her look), with a nice cleavage helps sell a game ?
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Like...maybe you let us know why she's so poorly dressed? Not everyone is fashionable not everyone is a queen of the catwalk. There's gotta be a reason why she's dressed like that.

One of my favorite fan theories about Cia from Hyrule Warriors is that because she is so in love with Link, which she is, but has never talked to another boy, which she hasn't, she desperately overcompensates in her attire and ends up just going at him with a dress that makes everything hang out, but restricts her movement to the point where she literally can't move during attacks (which she can't, unless she uses magic). It's funny and it builds her character and provides context. It adds to who she is.

But, that being said, none of that is required for her to be a character that people want to use. And that mindset is usually why most game characters come off as painfully one dimensional.
 
Sexualisation is almost always needless.

So what?

I really don't get why the industry has such a problem with it. It's never been my thing but I don't mind it, plenty of creators and gamers appreciate it, so good for them. If there are other worthwhile factors in the game, as there usually are, then I can still play it without complaints.

If you can't, tough.
 
BreezyLimbo said:
Eh, alotta people can see something and be like 'Oh my god that's my new main(In reference to a game like a MOBA or fighter)'. Maybe these women saw it and were like 'wow I want to dress up like her?'. Whether or not it's for attention due to how new the character is or how she looks is well..debatable.
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Sure and I'm not saying that design isn't a draw, it is. I just...get to retell the anecode of people who cosplayed as Lightning from FF13 after her reveal, 3 years before the game's release, and then hated the character's guts when they played that game. ::SHRUG::

A little prudence goes a long way sometimes, especially with something as time and money costly as cosplay. But hey, I'm not your dad.
 
Read the thread, and no mention that her torture scene is borderline torture porn since Kojima didn't even stop sexualizing her during that. Thankfully someone mentioned the terribly misplaced
rape scene
, which I called a year ago, and then you have people trying to justify it like "her lungs were burned," yes because in a world where idroids and robot arms exist in the 1980s absolutely the one female character isn't smart enough to use a pen and paper to communicate, it's so contrived. And evidently anyone unironically who has tried to use that excuse in this thread doesn't know how lungs work.

They vibrate, modulating the flow of air being expelled from the lungs during phonation.
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She literally shouldn't be able to speak then since she has no lungs apparently.

Neff said:
I've often seen Metal Gear as a satire of war rather than a glorification of it, and if Kojima's channeling Dr. Strangelove (and it's obvious he is), then sexual subtext is a huge part of that.
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I've seen Dr.Strangelove more times than I'd like to admit, nothing in this game is even remotely similar.
 
The idea that Bayonetta is okay because she "owns" her sexuality in a fiction, but Quiet is some sad overly-sexualized character in a fiction is asinine.

Let's say for the sake of argument, that these characters are in fact real people - are you telling me that Quiet wearing a bikini and fishnets is somehow not her choice and not her owning her look? What is the measure of judgement - your standards personally? She's not "owning" it enough for you to approve of her chosen wardrobe?

It's weird pseudo-white knight stuff like this that twists the narrative of women in entertainment mediums. She would not need your approval for her outfit in real life, and Kojima shouldn't need your approval for her to wear it in his game. She obviously chose that outfit herself (in the narrative). And it is sexy and titillating.

So?

And yes, we are trying to rationalize why an old guy with bug eyes can photosynthesize with clothes on, but not a bikini sniper. WHAT.

But let's argue for the sake of argument:

One, The End can't do NEARLY what Quiet can do. She's a better sniper and a better action character that does fantastical things.

Two, The End lays on the ground and falls asleep while waiting. Maybe if he showed a little more skin, he'd have a lot more "pep" in his step, no?

But yes, she has boobs. God forbid she likes 'em and wants to use her sexuality to attract someone she admires in a helicopter. GASP! Perish the thought.

Yeesh.
 
Garlador said:
I can't speak for all Japanese people, and my experiences there were quite limited, but it's not "just a Japanese thing". Every culture, including America, has a large demographic that thrives off of fanservice. Countless American movies, music, shows, comics, etc. have celebrated and worshipped sexual attractiveness like it's second to godhood. Japan is simply no different.
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This is very true. I was actually surprised we didn't see McAdam's boobs in True Detective Season 2. Because it's a pretty female actress who is part of an HBO show, people already expect tits (at the very least).
 
Mesoian said:
Sure and I'm not saying that design isn't a draw, it is. I just...get to retell the anecode of people who cosplayed as Lightning from FF13 after her reveal, 3 years before the game's release, and then hated the character's guts when they played that game. ::SHRUG::

A little prudence goes a long way sometimes, especially with something as time and money costly as cosplay. But hey, I'm not your dad.
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Good thing Quiet is loads better a character than Lightning is >_> Quiet can kill a guy and doesn't break down and cry.
 
Yopis said:
He did what he wanted every game doesn't need to be mom approved. Maybe it's not for everyone.
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It's bad from a critical standpoint. It's not quite as bad as the BB Unit, but it's almost there. Kojima doesn't get to be sanctified as a god of game narratives when it's pretty clear he has pulled this shit several times, and leaves on this particularly low note.
 
shandy706 said:
I haven't played the game yet, but there is cloth and material that let air and water through them. I can take a thin t-shirt, cover my nose and mouth, and still breath just fine.


The explanation of why she is not wearing much doesn't make sense to me.
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How do you sleep at night with that lol
 
Frog-fu said:
Sexualisation is almost always needless.

So what?

I really don't get why the industry has such a problem with it. It's never been my thing but I don't mind it, plenty of creators and gamers appreciate it, so good for them. If there are other worthwhile factors in the game, as there usually are, then I can still play it without complaints.

If you can't, tough.
Click to expand...


It's because you aren't on the receiving end but thanks for letting me know that even if I like playing the game, a simple thing like equality can't just be a common decency that I should expect in the game.

If snake isn't running around in speedos with flip flops and a headband to save the world.... Why should women have to?
 
The Jackdog said:
i use the 'other people' rule.

like if im playing this game and some friends walk in the room, is it gonna look bizarre as fuck?

Some scenes with quiet, def.

That new street fighter character comes to mind too.
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This is tag worthy, like "common sense" or something.
 
Everyone who is saying she has character reasons for doing it, because she takes in light or whatever:

(mgs3 spoilers, not 5)
dont they make a comparison to the end from mgs3? Say he had similar abilities?

That motherfucker was in an overcoat. Was literally wearing like, the opposite of quiet. Put that old man in a speedo and then it makes sense.

lets call it what it is, a cop out to dress her like that.

shes not standing up in the chopper and bending over in your face to take in more light is she?
 
BiggStankDogg said:
The idea that Bayonetta is okay because she "owns" her sexuality in a fiction, but Quiet is some sad overly-sexualized character in a fiction is asinine.

Let's say for the sake of argument, that these characters are in fact real people - are you telling me that Quiet wearing a bikini and fishnets is somehow not her choice and not her owning her look? What is the measure of judgement - you're standards personally? She's not "owning" it enough for you to approve of her chosen wardrobe?
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If the purpose of this scene and of Quiet's character in general is to make commentary, perhaps some will say it is that women should be free to wear what they want into battle or anywhere else, but this actually isn't the case with Quiet at all. She herself states she never wanted to be this way. She has this exposure forced upon her, and given a choice, it's safe to assume she'd adopt more practical clothing. She needs to be naked to live now; she needs to be naked to earn a place in Kojima's, and our, world.
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. This is exactly what I was talking about, unironically defending sexist shit because it has a "lore" reason that falls apart almost immediately under any kinda scrutiny.
 
I completely agree that it is problematic and video games need better representation, variety and treatment of women in video games.

The explanation for why Quiet is naked makes sense BUT is still a justification for why she is dressed that way, when it's very very obvious her design was made to titillate.

That being said

I keep her in her naked outfit and enjoy looking at her with no particular shame about it.

I am a complex mass of contradictions. I wanna see more Jade's from Beyond Good and Evil, more Nilin's from Remember Me, more strong and great women characters. But I also like lookin' at boobs and butts. I am a hypocrite.
 
AyaisMUsikWhore said:
It's because you aren't on the receiving end but thanks for letting me know that even if I like playing the game, a simple thing like equality can't just be a common decency that I should expect in the game.

If snake isn't running around in speedos with flip flops and a headband to save the world.... Why should women have to?
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Does every game need to be split 50/50? Should games have zero fanservice for either sex? Just curious your opinion. Raiden was naked in a previous Metal Gear if I remember.
 
It's sleazy as fuck, and not even in a funny way like with EVA in MGS3, who was more of a Bond Girl pastiche. It's like Kojima doesn't know if he wants the player to take her seriously, or to stare at her ass when the camera lingers on her making suggestive poses.
 
NegroNinja said:
I just came across the "Playing in the Rain" scene yesterday. That had to be the most cringeworthy thing I've ever seen in a video game. I was praying that no one walked into my room while that scene was on. I felt like I was watching one of those Japanese animes. Other than that I have no problem with Quiet, she had a lot of badass scenes in the game. That one was just too much though.
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"Watching one of those Japanese animes"

Ok?
 
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