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[Officerrob]

Expecting them to run the exact same playbook a second time to reach success the exact same way isn't plausible.

For as many people who thought the Wii was so easily approachable, there were also people who it never reached, people who liked the game but didn't want to waggle. You weren't of this strange impression that hardcore gamers were the only ones who thought that, were you?

Wii only sold 46 million in the US, which has a population of 314 million. Take non-earners out of the equation (to be extremely generous, let's say only 1 in 4 Americans makes a livable income, when it's actually closer to 1 in 2.5). Different people have different tastes, and there's still 32 million wage-earning people that never owned a Wii. Perhaps they wanted something different and the Wii U fills that desired feature set.

Not everyone who buys an iPhone buys the next model, and many migrate to Android, but they are replaced by new owners who found something in a newer model that entices them. Your established market changes over time, and this will be no different. The ones who aren't buying will be replaced by others (like, say, hardcore gamers who are more willing to jump onboard the Wii U than they were the Wii, as but one example).

So yeah, writing off the Wii's success as a fluke that has NO hope of being repeated is not a thought-out suggestion. It CAN happen again. We just get to wait and see if it will, instead of jumping to an early conclusion like most of us did with the Wii, only to be proven wrong.

It's not about running the same playbook, it's about running a playbook that was destined to (and in the very early stages proven to) not create the mass market buzz that the Wii did. The Wii was a sensation that was EVERYWHERE when it came out, and a poor quality touch screen in the age of vastly superior touch screens was never going to grab that kind of attention. Who was doing motion controls before the Wii? Nobody worth a shit. Problem is, most people have a cell phone with a touch screen that craps all over the Wii U's. People have been gaming on touch screens for years now, it's nothing new. Could a Wii like success happen again? Absolutely. Is the Wii U capable of that? No, it's already failed at that. All this is before you take into account that there are tons of softcore gamers out there that think the Wii U is a handheld or just a new controller for the Wii.

With that said, if you honestly think all those moms and seniors who jumped on the Wii bandwagon will simply be replaced by others (especially hardcore gamers, who have for the most part abandoned Nintendo), good luck with that. Your argument about replacing these people is full of a bunch of "perhaps" and "maybe's", not exactly a good business model. How long of a headstart does Nintendo have until Sony and Microsoft start releasing info on their new systems, a few months? What has Nintendo done to try and bring over the hardcore? A bunch of third party ports (many with severe issues) and an announcement of a sequel to a game that didn't even break a million global sales (Bayonetta) just isn't going to get it done. Time is ticking, because when Microsoft and Sony show what they got, the hardcores are gone

 

[KageMaru]

Well, Wii U development is definitely not going to cost as much which should help some development companies from going out of business. Plus, Sony and MS might end up with radically different machines, not only in terms of architecture but not even focusing on core gamers as a whole. They're moving closer and closer to the general audience and a takeover of most media entertainment. One box to rule them all

The ps360 have been blamed for many of the studio closures this Gen, but now that the Wii-U is in the same power bracket, it'll magically help studios from closing down? Budgets don't need to blow up just because the other consoles are more powerful.

Also based on the rumors, the ps4 and 720 look to be rather similar in some ways, which should help development.

Last, who said the other guys aren't focusing on the core gamers? You can offer great multimedia functionality without sacrificing the gaming side.

You may mock them now but when Nintendo displays Zelda, it'll look and play better than Metro: Last Light. All Metro does is various Shades of Gray. LoZ will revitalize colours.

I'm sure Zelda will look great. However I'd bet money that the design will differ so much from Metro that it will make comparisons silly and pointless. Not to mention how it's likely both games will have different demands and of course an exclusive will be tailored around the Wii-U's strengths.

Well he did say he wanted a law passed to force the 720/PS4 to be weaker.

Wait, WHAT?!

Not at all. I have no interest in any of Microsoft's exclusives, and the quality of Sony's exclusives have plummeted in recent years. That, and with the skyrocketing prices of game development if Sony/Microsoft use high end console graphics, we won't be seeing many "AAA" exclusives anyways.

You seem to know so much about the future. Can I have tonight's lottery numbers?

Making comments on any exclusives next Gen is foolish at best.

 

[goomba]

I'm not. I'm buying mine for Nintendo games in HD. I've already got a Xbox360/PS3/Gaming PC. I'll use those for my powerhouses.

Does not compute.

 

[Glorified G]

Some of the posters in this thread don't have Nintendo's best interests at heart.

Why would anyone consumer have a corporation's best interests at heart? Besides your money, Nintendo or any corporation don't care about you.

 

[QaaQer]

Why would anyone consumer have a corporation's best interests at heart?

self hate?

 

[Poimandres]

if you don't know anything about hardware/software/optimization and specially you let other people tell you what to believe... yep can't be helped

In fairness, most of us only have what other people have said to go on because A) we haven't had a look at Wii U development kits and B) even if we did have access to a kit we would have no idea how to gauge it's power.

Why shouldn't we believe this guy? Metro is a fantastic looking game, and his comments come across as blunt but truthful. Other developers have also had issues with the CPU. The natural conclusion is that the CPU is not one of the consoles strengths.

 

[grap3fruitman]

WiiU having trouble with Ps360 ports?

I wonder how they'll port nextgen PS and Xbox games to the WiiU then...

Simple, just like with the Wii: they won't.

 

[K' Dash]

Smells like bullshit to me.

 

[Bog]

I guess I'm not seeing the issue. Nintendo published games will look gorgeous, third party ports will look ok and hopefully use the Gamepad in unique, interesting ways to give them the edge (until the next consoles hit). What else was being expected here? Buy a PC if graphical power is all you give a shit about.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Why would anyone consumer have a corporation's best interests at heart? Besides your money, Nintendo or any corporation don't care about you.

I'm Not happy with Wii U's power but why would a nintendo fan not have their best interest at heart? How does nintendo going downhill financially like Sega or Sony help a Nintendo fan? If nintendo does well financially they will continue to make games people enjoy, simple as that.

That being said I think the gamepad is the culprit. While I'm a fan of some of it's features I would have sacrificed it for better hardware in a sec.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

"We're actually not very good at making games. We took an early look at Wii U and decided we just weren't creative enough to make an interesting title with such a shitty CPU."

fixed

 

[KageMaru]

In fairness, most of us only have what other people have said to go on because A) we haven't had a look at Wii U development kits and B) even if we did have access to a kit we would have no idea how to gauge it's power.

Why shouldn't we believe this guy? Metro is a fantastic looking game, and his comments come across as blunt but truthful. Other developers have also had issues with the CPU. The natural conclusion is that the CPU is not one of the consoles strengths.

Yup, the engineers of this team really shouldn't be questioned. They are a really talented group of people and have nothing to gain by lying or exaggerating.

fixed

It's amusing how childish some of the backlash is in this thread. So for every dev that has issues with the CPU, the fault is always on the team and never on the company providing the hardware?

 

[MoonLightWave]

Smells like bullshit to me.

What is bullshit? That Wii U is weak?

 

[jaz013]

You implied that the only reason to own these consoles were "dudebro" games. I showed a list (I could have made it much longer) demonstrating that this is clearly wrong. So now your argument is that the only reason to own these consoles if you are a mainstream gamer is dudebro games? That seems kind of self-fulfilling to me, given that the average "core" gamer these days is probably a dudebro.

Regardless of the power (or lack thereof) of any consoles, some development teams are definitely going out of business. Even more so in a recession.

I can count with one hand the people that might show any interest on these "non-dudebro" exclusive games. And that's from first-hand interaction with the gaming community on two different metro areas. So, yes, "mainstream gamers" are "dudebro gamers". And I..., don't know how I was proven wrong. Yes, there options on every console, but the average gamer is there just for the CoDs, Halos and GoWs (and FIFAs and PES on my country). Maybe I didn't express myself correctly.

 

[Jacobi]

I'm Not happy with Wii U's power but why would a nintendo fan not have their best interest at heart? How does nintendo going downhill financially like Sega or Sony help a Nintendo fan? If nintendo does well financially they will continue to make games people enjoy, simple as that.

That being said I think the gamepad is the culprit. While I'm a fan of some of it's features I would have sacrificed it for better hardware in a sec.

I'm a Nintendo fan, but they just make shitty hardware lately. Them going 3rd party would be awesome as hell.

 

[BGBW]

Why would anyone consumer have a corporation's best interests at heart?

Because if Nintendo dies, gaming will die!

 

[Oreoleo]

fixed

Yeah it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the publisher of their only game in development is effectively bankrupt. Come on, man.

 

[jaz013]

It's amusing how childish some of the backlash is in this thread. So for every dev that has issues with the CPU, the fault is always on the team and never on the company providing the hardware?

Chief technical officer, Oles Shishkovtsov, explains why Metro’s sequel won’t be appearing.

“[The] Wii U has a horrible, slow CPU,” explained Shishkovtsov. “We had an early look at it, we thought we could probably do it, but in terms of the impact we would make on the overall quality of the game – potentially to its detriment – we just figured it wasn’t worth pursuing at this time. It’s something we might return to. I really couldn’t make any promises, though.”

Despite Nintendo’s console offering Metro: Last Light new experiences to its players with it dual screens, when asked Shishkovtsov was adamant that the Wii U would ever seen Metro: Last Light when asked directly.

“We had an initial look at the Wii U, but given the size of the team and compared to where we were last time, just developing for the Playstation 3 is a significant addition.”

This is developer's code for "we figure out that we can just force-feed the port so we dropped". Also, "Nintendo should money-hat(it's that right?) us to do it. The second quote just makes it more evident.

 

[Corky]

What is bullshit? That Wii U is weak?

Yeah! Stop painting the console I like in a negative way!

 

[saunderez]

I can count with one hand the people that might show any interest on these "non-dudebro" exclusive games. And that's from first-hand interaction with the gaming community on two different metro areas. So, yes, "mainstream gamers" are "dudebro gamers". And I..., don't know how I was proven wrong. Yes, there options on every console, but the average gamer is there just for the CoDs, Halos and GoWs (and FIFAs and PES on my country). Maybe I didn't express myself correctly.

If all "mainstream gamers" are "dudebro" gamers then all Nintendo only gamers are "kids". See I can generalise too.

 

[Glorified G]

I'm Not happy with Wii U's power but why would a nintendo fan not have their best interest at heart? How does nintendo going downhill financially like Sega or Sony help a Nintendo fan? If nintendo does well financially they will continue to make games people enjoy, simple as that.

Who said anything about them going bankrupt? I'm saying as a consumer you should worry about your interest first and foremost and doing so doesn't mean you want a company to financially go under. The logic is just backwards. A corporation only interest is to make money and if you really have "their best interest at heart" go mail them a certified cheque every month. (not you specifically).

If someone is really unhappy with the Wii U's power, voting with your wallet will do much more then just blindly supporting them. And that goes for any product. But as usual people will bitch and still buy it, and complain 6 years later when they follow the same successful model again.

 

[Sentenza]

fixed

You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[i-Lo]

I don't even see how you can make such a comparison. You may prefer the colour palette employed by zelda games because it is more vivid, but it does not make the game look better than Metro. Otherwise, you could say that OoT looks better than Metro because it has lots of colours. I still don't get that argument to be honest, that colours are better than shades of grey. It all depends on what the intentions of the devs are. Metro happens in a post-apocalyptic russia, so the dull colours fit the theme perfectly. I wouldn't want all my games to look like MLP just for the sake of having COLOURS.

On a technical level, I'd be very surprised if this next Zelda game is anywhere close to Metro LL, which is made with high-powered PCs in mind.

I'm sure Zelda will look great. However I'd bet money that the design will differ so much from Metro that it will make comparisons silly and pointless. Not to mention how it's likely both games will have different demands and of course an exclusive will be tailored around the Wii-U's strengths.

The point is, Zelda will look much better because of its art direction. Those mountains, trees and dungeons will look unparalleled no matter how many more polygons or effects like ambient occlusion, tessellation etc are used in Metro. Plus it's a dude bro shooter with current gen filter as opposed to vivid colour palette of "the" adventure game.

The Wii U hardware is powerful enough as evidenced by the floor demo of Link. Why should the nintendo fans believe their small development team who only had an early look, as opposed to a detailed look that may have cost them time and money. Nintendo knew what they were doing and were smart to realize that graphic fidelity has now reached a point where diminishing returns are so significant that any extra horsepower would have been pointless.

These devs berating comes off as an excuse for meagre resources and a lack of revelation witnessed by Nintendo alone, i.e. horsepower is meaningless. Graphics don't sell games. If that were true Wii Fit wouldn't sold north of 50 million copies. And how many copies did Metro sell?

 

[Stumpokapow]

fixed

It makes more sense to buy hardware for the available games than buy games for your available hardware, so it also by extension makes more sense to criticize platform owners for releasing stuff that has a barrier to entry for developers, than it does to criticize developers for not making it through that barrier.

 

[KageMaru]

This is developer's code for "we figure out that we can just force-feed the port so we dropped". Also, "Nintendo should money-hat(it's that right?) us to do it. The second quote just makes it more evident.

Yeah I'm not sure how you got any of that from the quote. You know it's possible to look at an architecture, determine how it fits with the demands of your game along with potential bottlenecks, and plan accordingly.

However based on your other posts in this thread, you'll think what you want, logic be dammed. So carry on I guess.

 

[Rehynn]

So... what's the consensus at this point? Can we expect better looking games than what's possible on PS360?

 

[Doc Holliday]

If someone is really unhappy with the Wii U's power, voting with your wallet will do much more then just blindly supporting them. And that goes for any product. But as usual people will bitch and still buy it, and complain 6 years later when they follow the same successful model again.

I see your point. Funny thing is last time Nintendo had badass hardware, it sold like shit in japan and the US. So I we did vote with out wallets lol.

 

[Poimandres]

fixed

This is downright insulting. The Metro games have some unique and interesting ideas, great tech, and atmosphere in spades. They are a small team, working on a project for a struggling publisher, seemingly making a game they are passionate about. They have been honest about the difficulties and limitations of working with other consoles.

And you think they are "not very good at making games" with no "creativity" because the Wii U isn't an easy fit for the game? Those damn lazy developers...

 

[i-Lo]

So... what's the consensus at this point? Can we expect better looking games than what's possible on PS360?

When the new Zelda comes out, given Nintendo's development pedigree, I'd assume after so many releases in the franchise they'd polish the characters and world so well that that alongside its "art" style will rival launch PS4/XB3 games.

 

[Teletraan1]

I see your point. Funny thing is last time Nintendo had badass hardware, it sold like shit in japan and the US. So I we did vote with out wallets lol.

The last time they had bad ass hardware they were late to the party with smaller discs against one of the most successful consoles of all time.

 

[BruiserBear]

WiiU having trouble with Ps360 ports?

I wonder how they'll port nextgen PS and Xbox games to the WiiU then...

heh

 

[TUROK]

This is developer's code for "we figure out that we can just force-feed the port so we dropped". Also, "Nintendo should money-hat(it's that right?) us to do it. The second quote just makes it more evident.

You are clueless. 4A Games is a really small development team. They're developing a game for three platforms, so their resources are already being stretched thin.

 

[Hiltz]

Is this developer's comment in reference to working with early/late dev kits or actual finalized hardware ? Cause by May 2012, THQ stated the game would not be coming to Wii U, but late generation dev kits came out sometime between April/May 2012 according to some reports. Metro developer threw in the towel early so I just wonder if they even attempted to use current version of the hardware to try to get their game running on.

 

[Doc Holliday]

The last time they had bad ass hardware they were late to the party with smaller discs against one of the most successful consoles of all time.

I know that, it just proves that tech isn't that important in their eyes for long term success. All the tech in the GC got owned by branding, timing, and DVD playback. I wish they had fixed those things and release badass hardware but they keep getting away with it so why would they?

 

[BlackJace]

When the new Zelda comes out, given Nintendo's development pedigree, I'd assume after so many releases in the franchise they'd polish the characters and world so well that that alongside its "art" style will rival launch PS4/XB3 games.

This is what I see happening as well. I think you're short-changing it a bit, but I do agree that it will take some time.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

These devs berating comes off as an excuse for meagre resources and a lack of revelation witnessed by Nintendo alone, i.e. horsepower is meaningless. Graphics don't sell games. If that were true Wii Fit wouldn't sold north of 50 million copies. And how many copies did Metro sell?

so, what matters is how much the games sell?

 

[doomquake]

Dang..they are developing for the ps3.... That should be hilarious

 

[Thunder Monkey]

11 pages?

On something that only the most ardent delusional fan didn't believe?

 

[Reiko]

If you were buying a Wii u for graphical powerhouses over Nintendo games you were sorely misinformed

NES compared to Atari and ColecoVision
SNES
N64
Gamecube

The dream is dead

Dang..they are developing for the ps3.... That should be hilarious

I think I remember a quote of them tinkering with the PS3 before.

 

[CamHostage]

So... what's the consensus at this point? Can we expect better looking games than what's possible on PS360?

I'm not sure enough has been disclosed about the specs yet, but going by this comment (though it could be based on early prototypes of the hardware) and the slower (but abundant) RAM story, my guess is that games designed specifically for its specs and GPU feature set could look spectacular, but we will not see that "best-version" standard for multiplatform releases even though the hardware is coming out seven years after its competitors. That, and the notion of keeping up with PS4/720 is a pipe dream.

But no doubt, Nintendo will make this system sing no matter the specs (even some Wii games were stunners) and we're a long way from seeing the best that this system can do.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Hehehehe.....

Bwahahaha! Can't wait until next year when everything is out.

"Next gen doesn't start until we say so." -Kazuo Hirai

 

[falconzss]

The last time they had bad ass hardware they were late to the party with smaller discs against one of the most successful consoles of all time.

Would have alo helped, if the system had been capable of DVD playback. The look didn't help either.

 

[chubigans]

The point is, Zelda will look much better because of its art direction. Those mountains, trees and dungeons will look unparalleled no matter how many more polygons or effects like ambient occlusion, tessellation etc are used in Metro. Plus it's a dude bro shooter with current gen filter as opposed to vivid colour palette of "the" adventure game.

The Wii U hardware is powerful enough as evidenced by the floor demo of Link. Why should the nintendo fans believe their small development team who only had an early look, as opposed to a detailed look that may have cost them time and money. Nintendo knew what they were doing and were smart to realize that graphic fidelity has now reached a point where diminishing returns are so significant that any extra horsepower would have been pointless.

These devs berating comes off as an excuse for meagre resources and a lack of revelation witnessed by Nintendo alone, i.e. horsepower is meaningless. Graphics don't sell games. If that were true Wii Fit wouldn't sold north of 50 million copies. And how many copies did Metro sell?

I don't know where to even start.

That the idea of not even performance superiority, but performance equal to current consoles, and what benefits that would bring is completely lost on some of you. I just don't get it.

 

[Reiko]

Bwahahaha! Can't wait until next year when everything is out.

"Next gen doesn't start until we say so." -Kazuo Hirai

Crytek already jumped the gun with Crysis 3 though. They were tired of waiting.

 

[Bidermaier]

I think the Wii U will be ok in power.
People already knew the wii u was nothing special in power. It was never a big deal.
This thread is so big because Nintendo is doing things well.They look like they know what they are doing with Miiverse and the gamepad.
Nintendo has always been about affordable fun. With the wii they teased the casual marked . Now they go after you! Yes even with "old" technology .

 

[Fourth Storm]

11 pages?

On something that only the most ardent delusional fan didn't believe?

At this point, my only question is, "Does it have any 476fp features whatsoever or is it just Broadway straight up, with the bare minimum modified to enable SMP?" It seems baffling that Nintendo would choose the latter over the former, what with the 476fp being very similar in design, already on 45nm, and extremely flexible (so that they could change whatever they needed to enable Wii BC). A 476fp may not be a floating point beast or be capable of multiple threads per core, but at least it's a fairly modern design.

 

[JaseMath]

I can't believe a persons enjoyment of a system or its games hinges on how amazing the visuals are. It completely baffles me. Speaking personally, I've had more fun playing AAA Wii games than I ever had playing anything AAA on either of the HD twins.

 

[Sexually Aggressive Uncle]

This thread is so big because Nintendo is doing things well.

Well this is news.

 

[Reiko]

I can't believe a persons enjoyment of a system or its games hinges on how amazing the visuals are. It completely baffles me. Why? Speaking personally, I've had more fun playing AAA Wii games than I ever had playing anything AAA on either of the HD twins.

While that is true.

I miss the day of Nintendo blowing my mind with it's hardware. SNES and Gamecube were really something.

 

[Poimandres]

The point is, Zelda will look much better because of its art direction. Those mountains, trees and dungeons will look unparalleled no matter how many more polygons or effects like ambient occlusion, tessellation etc are used in Metro. Plus it's a dude bro shooter with current gen filter as opposed to vivid colour palette of "the" adventure game.

Zelda will have better art direction.... even though none of us have any idea of what direction Zelda will be heading in.

The mountains, trees and dungeons will look "unparalleled".... even though we have no idea what they will look like.

Metro is a "dude bro shooter".... even though it is actually more of a survival game than a straight up shooter.