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Metro Last Light dev: 'Wii U has horrible, slow CPU' [Up: DICE dev comments]

i-Lo said:
When the new Zelda comes out, given Nintendo's development pedigree, I'd assume after so many releases in the franchise they'd polish the characters and world so well that that alongside its "art" style will rival launch PS4/XB3 games.
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Yeah, but art is subjective, and right now I'm interested in the viability of the Wii U as a target for ports. I do, however, buy Nintendo consoles for the exclusives, and I share your optimism. Can't wait to see what the Zelda team does with the hardware!

CamHostage said:
I'm not sure enough has been disclosed about the specs yet, but going by this comment (though it could be based on early prototypes of the hardware) and the slower (but abundant) RAM story, my guess is that games designed specifically for its specs and GPU feature set could look spectacular, but we will not see that "best-version" standard for multiplatform releases even though the hardware is coming out seven years after its competitors. That, and the notion of keeping up with PS4/720 is a pipe dream.

But no doubt, Nintendo will make this system sing no matter the specs (even some Wii games were stunners) and we're a long way from seeing the best that this system can do.
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I think I'm OK with this. Thanks!
 
Doc Holliday said:
I see your point. Funny thing is last time Nintendo had badass hardware, it sold like shit in japan and the US. So I we did vote with out wallets lol.
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As someone who has a genetic defect that predisposes me to buying failed systems for some reason, I actually don't know of any Nintendo console that did 'shit' other than Virtual Boy.

On the other hand, this article only compounds the poor Wii U outlook for me. Current gen graphics alone will not bring this thing down, however - trickling exclusives, lack of a 'must-have' launch game, and lack of public awareness will kill this thing.

My prediction? Price drop to $200 - $250 on next-gen launch, new console in 3 years , and many Dreamcast comparisons on NeoGaf.
 
JasonMCG said:
I can't believe a persons enjoyment of a system or its games hinges on how amazing the visuals are. It completely baffles me. If you're enjoying yourself, then why does it really matter? Speaking personally, I've had more fun playing AAA Wii games than I ever had playing anything AAA on either of the HD twins.
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Yep. I had way more fun with that ugly as shit Skyward Sword than I did with about 99% of the "graphical powerhouse" games that people love on 360 and PS3. I always laugh when people try to persuade me into a game because U SHOULD CHECK OUT TEH GRAPHICS.
 
Gahiggidy said:
Some of the posters in this thread don't have Nintendo's best interests at heart.
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iFojixbqA4g47.gif
 
Is there a CliffsNotes version of this thread.

I've skimmed a bit, but I'm assuming there's a lot of "EDRAM" "GPGPU" "Lazy devs" "Lying devs" "Incompetent devs" with a sprinkle of launch launch launch.
 
A simple fact someone on B3D pointed out: The WiiU CPU is only just a few square mm larger than an Intel Atom N270.
Because they use the same process node size, the WiiU CPU can not be fast at all.
 
JasonMCG said:
I can't believe a persons enjoyment of a system or its games hinges on how amazing the visuals are. It completely baffles me. If you're enjoying yourself, then why does it really matter? Speaking personally, I've had more fun playing AAA Wii games than I ever had playing anything AAA on either of the HD twins. I understand how it could detract from the experience, but is it really that important?
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I agree, but the amazing-ness of the visuals are important for incentivizing developers to actually bother developing on the platform. Or more accurately, the lack of power will discourage them, the OP being an example of that.

If Wii-U is commercially successful then it won't matter as much in the long run though.
 
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. Personally, this developer is coming across as an unprofessional jackass. Horrible, slow CPU..LOL. A company like Nintendo wouldn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D to develop a “horrible, slow CPU". I'm just not buying it.
 
shinra-bansho said:
Is there a CliffsNotes version of this thread.
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4A games are lazy, incompetent, dishonorable, unprofessional and uncreative. Their games are grey and lifeless. And anyway, ZombiU looks better.

Also, a law should be passed preventing PS4/720 from being too powerful.

I think that just about covers it.
 
TAS said:
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. Personally, this developer is coming across as an unprofessional jackass. Horrible, slow CPU..LOL. A company like Nintendo wouldn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D to develop a “horrible, slow CPU". I'm just not buying it.
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Funny you say that, because your opinion holds no weight, but the Dev's does.
They say it is not fast, It is not big enough to be fast, get over it.
 
TAS said:
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. Personally, this developer is coming across as an unprofessional jackass. Horrible, slow CPU..LOL. A company like Nintendo wouldn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D to develop a “horrible, slow CPU". I'm just not buying it.
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These guys make enthusiast level PC games.
 
TheD said:
A simple fact someone on B3D pointed out: The WiiU CPU is only just a few square mm larger than an Intel Atom N270.
Because they use the same process node size, the WiiU CPU can not be fast at all.
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Yeah. Seeing the amazing power efficiency of the console, yeah, the writing was on the wall power wise.

Then again, I'm not sure publishers will give a fuck about power efficiency.

Cosmozone said:
The "horrible" was quite insulting, though. These managers...
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To whom? I'm pretty sure Nintendo engineers are well aware of the choices they've made and would stand by them. I don't see the insult, we're talking about a consumer device that can be described through various metrics, including CPU power.
 
TAS said:
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. Personally, this developer is coming across as an unprofessional jackass. Horrible, slow CPU..LOL. A company like Nintendo wouldn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D to develop a “horrible, slow CPU". I'm just not buying it.
Click to expand...

That Wii sure was a powerhouse last gen!

Nintendo using technology that is behind the times would be a shocking surprise, for sure.
 
TAS said:
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. Personally, this developer is coming across as an unprofessional jackass. Horrible, slow CPU..LOL. A company like Nintendo wouldn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D to develop a “horrible, slow CPU". I'm just not buying it.
Click to expand...

Oh' but they would on that controller. Gotta make the costs up somewhere when exchange rates get bitchy and your company value starts to tank. There are few places easier than the CPU.
 
The Mana Legend said:
Yeah, SNES had some great looking games, but that weak CPU ruined so much of it.
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Nope. I had way more fun with that ugly as shit Super Mario World than I did with about 99% of the "graphical powerhouse" games that people love on Genesis. I always laugh when people try to persuade me into a game because U SHOULD CHECK OUT TEH CPU.
 
The Mana Legend said:
Yep. I had way more fun with that ugly as shit Skyward Sword than I did with about 99% of the "graphical powerhouse" games that people love on 360 and PS3. I always laugh when people try to persuade me into a game because U SHOULD CHECK OUT TEH GRAPHICS.
Click to expand...

Except for the jaggy SD factor, I thought SS looked pretty god damned good.
...but see! We won't have to worry about that anymore!!!
 
Xdrive05 said:
I agree, but the amazing-ness of the visuals are important for incentivizing developers to actually bother developing on the platform. Or more accurately, the lack of power will discourage them, the OP being an example of that.

If Wii-U is commercially successful then it won't matter as much in the long run though.
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I think with the skyrocketing costs of game development, a majority of developers will NOT go to the console with the best power. It might have been true 8 years ago, but with the risk of how absurdly expensive video games are to make now, very few will actually risk to make huge games.

Hence why there has been such a huge rise in Indie developers.
 
Durante said:
4A games are lazy, incompetent, dishonorable, unprofessional and uncreative. Their games are grey and lifeless. And anyway, ZombiU looks better.

Also, a law should be passed preventing PS4/720 from being too powerful.

I think that just about covers it.
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So reaction as expected.

I especially like the bolded, lol.
 
RIP graphics mattering
June 2012-November 2012


We all new this was coming, the retreat back to the "gameplay>graphics" and "lol grey/brown" mantra's. I think most of us were expecting to at least wait till the annoucement of the other consoles if not the release rather than just 3 days into the WiiU though.

Yes gameplay is important but having good visuals doesn't stop a game from having good gameplay. The most Important thing for a system isn't power or control schemes or multimedia, it's games. Here we already have one instance of a game that probably won't be coming to WiiU and this is a current gen game, it will only get worse in the years to come.

There was alot of talk in the speculation threads that this time it wouldn't be a similar situation to the Wii because of a "modern architecure" and "more powerful" but it seems pretty clear that the third party stuation is probably going to follow the same path as this gen.
 
Rapstah said:
Nope. I had way more fun with that ugly as shit Super Mario World than I did with about 99% of the "graphical powerhouse" games that people love on Genesis. I always laugh when people try to persuade me into a game because U SHOULD CHECK OUT TEH CPU.
Click to expand...

See, this is a really terrible comeback because a lot of games were actually effected by the CPU on SNES. Not just visually, but the actual gameplay. Some games were so goddamn slow because of it (compared to the Genesis versions) it was mind-boggling.
 
Durante said:
4A games are lazy, incompetent, dishonorable, unprofessional and uncreative. Their games are grey and lifeless. And anyway, ZombiU looks better.

Also, a law should be passed preventing PS4/720 from being too powerful.

I think that just about covers it.
Click to expand...

Let us also remember, hardware power is never funneled anywhere but raw asset quality.
 
i-Lo said:
When the new Zelda comes out, given Nintendo's development pedigree, I'd assume after so many releases in the franchise they'd polish the characters and world so well that that alongside its "art" style will rival launch PS4/XB3 games.
Click to expand...

save mario galaxy, do any wii games rival ps360 games? do any wii games even rival ps360 launch titles? highly doubt. wont be any different with wii U.
 
Poimandres said:
That Wii sure was a powerhouse last gen!

Nintendo using technology that is behind the times would be a shocking surprise, for sure.
Click to expand...

Slightly more powerful than the Xbox and no games that truly trumped:

Dead or Alive 3/Ultimate
Ninja Gaiden Black
Chronicles of Riddick
Rallisport Challenge 2


and Splinter Cell Chaos Theory...

935504_120106_screen001.jpg


Did Ubisoft forget the previous game had normal mapping?

921914_20050303_screen002.jpg


EDIT: Okay... Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 were the only real standouts IMO
 
JasonMCG said:
Except for the jaggy SD factor, I thought SS looked pretty god damned good.
...but see! We won't have to worry about that anymore!!!
Click to expand...

For me, it was mostly that awful painting effect they did for the stuff in the distance that looked absolutely awful. I really liked a few moments in the game, but dear god that took some getting used to, hahaha.
 
JasonMCG said:
I can't believe a persons enjoyment of a system or its games hinges on how amazing the visuals are. It completely baffles me. Speaking personally, I've had more fun playing AAA Wii games than I ever had playing anything AAA on either of the HD twins.
Click to expand...
As a PS3, Wii and PC owner, my favorite games this past gen were on DS. So yeah.
 
The thing is though depending on which dev kit version he was looking at, his assessment of the CPU might be meaningless.

WiiU CPU performance improved greatly over the course of dev kit releases.
 
i dont think its the power that everyone is hung up on. its the value. a 360 with more ram and a coby tablet wont cost $300 total. the value is utter shit. the value of their entire hardware lineup is shit and they need to stop. its like they didnt learn with the 3ds.
 
thirty said:
i dont think its the power that everyone is hung up on. its the value. a 360 with more ram and a coby tablet wont cost $300 total. the value is utter shit. the value of their entire hardware lineup is shit and they need to stop. its like they didnt learn with the 3ds.
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They're already selling it at a loss, though.
 
The Mana Legend said:
See, this is a really terrible comeback because a lot of games were actually effected by the CPU on SNES. Not just visually, but the actual gameplay. Some games were so goddamn slow because of it (compared to the Genesis versions) it was mind-boggling.
Click to expand...

While I wasn't totally serious in that (I'll always take the chance of inverting a quote of someone regardless of how much sense it makes), the parallel to your original point would be that exclusive SNES games were better than exclusive Genesis games regardless of the CPU (something many would agree with) and therefore CPU speed is entirely irrelevant in consoles.
 
Wow, are some of you people really insulting this dev? If they can make Metro look like that on a shoestring budget, then you should really be interested in what they have to say. The Wii U is a weak console, end of. Nothing wrong with that as we've come to expect that from Nintendo since the Wii however insulting the dev is just downright immature.
 
Rapstah said:
While I wasn't totally serious in that (I'll always take the chance of inverting a quote of someone regardless of how much sense it makes), the parallel to your original point would be that exclusive SNES games were better than exclusive Genesis games regardless of the CPU (something many would agree with) and therefore CPU speed is entirely irrelevant in consoles.
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Nah...

I mean comparing the visual effects of The Adventures of Batman & Robin to Yoshi's Island... It's pretty damn even.
 
JasonMCG said:
I can't believe a persons enjoyment of a system or its games hinges on how amazing the visuals are. It completely baffles me. Speaking personally, I've had more fun playing AAA Wii games than I ever had playing anything AAA on either of the HD twins.
Click to expand...
As if having great hardware and having great gameplay are mutually exclusive things.
 
TheD said:
Funny you say that, because your opinion holds no weight, but the Dev's does.
They say it is not fast, It is not big enough to be fast, get over it.
Click to expand...

I don't give two squirts of piss what one developer (who clearly sounds like he has an agenda) has to say. For the past year, we have heard many developers praise the system and never mention this so-called 'horrible CPU'. And btw..there is nothing to 'get over'. I'm not denying that the Wii U will not have a crazy powerful CPU. What I am arguing (knowing Nintendo's history of hardware efficiency) is that it won't be a horrible slow CPU that will drag down overall system potential.
 
thirty said:
i dont think its the power that everyone is hung up on. its the value. a 360 with more ram and a coby tablet wont cost $300 total. the value is utter shit. the value of their entire hardware lineup is shit and they need to stop. its like they didnt learn with the 3ds.
Click to expand...

No it's the power. The issue is there were some people still in denial about how powerful the Wii U was going to be and now we are seeing the last death throes of those people being snapped back to reality.

And the worry really isn't about "Hur hur graphic whores im elitist because I don't care about graphics" It is about parity for multiplatform games from 3rd parties that hurt Wii in a lot of peoples eyes and the mid life crisis it experienced. It's not about lazy devs, its about devs being able to afford to put alot of time and money into a single game for a single system without the ease of porting it to other consoles to recoup costs.
 
I'd swallow this wholesale were it not for other devs like Harada, who initially made the same comments on the CPU, putting out an amazing product for launch, with the same amount of time available in which to do it. The scope of the projects are different, to be sure, but considering when the Metro project was folded on Wii U, it could be that they could have made it work and just didn't have the manpower to look deeper into it, nor the time to wait for a dev kit revision that may have corrected it since their last look at it.

I don't think his comments are 100% invalid, since thoughts like this have to come from SOMEWHERE, but I know there's enough variables that make it tough to claim they are 100% valid, as well.

But by all means, people on both sides of the discussion can jump the gun to their heart's content.
 
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