I thought the Omega in Fusion felt shoehorned and was underwhelming in almost every possible sense, plus it was just an ugly dinosaur. Here in SR it looks threatening as hell and fighting it is so much fun, which is more than what can be said about Fusion's.
Also Fusion's Omega's scream is me waiting to hear about the SR's performance in the west.
It feels so satisfying to pull down the Metroid Queen with the Grapple Beam, roll through her open mouth and throat and into her gut with the Morph Ball, and lay a Power Bomb. Mercury Steam took one of the most bullshit moments of Other M and made it fun and interactive and the best part is that, like the original Metroid 2, some players never even realized that option existed on their first playthrough.
I knew it was going to be there, but the way they executed it was so cool. It's stuff like it that makes the shift to 2.5D totally worth it in my eyes, it really adds to the action.
... I had no idea it was optional in the original though.
I actually immensely prefer the Samus Returns Omega. The Fusion Omega is basically a theropod dinosaur, while the Samus Returns Omega has more unusual proportions that feel fitting for the hulking final evolution of a parasitic alien.
And when you compare their respective animations and sounds, there is no competition. What the fuck were they thinking with that scream in Fusion?
I can see those points but ultimately, perhaps due to the low resolution of the 3DS, that thing simply looks like a rat with slightly strange eyes and mouth to me. Hell, even the 'armor plating' looks like furr.
The original Metroid 2's Zeta and Omega designs were odd looking, too, but in an alien, grotesque way that made them more fearsome.
Samus Returns is the first time many of us get to experience Metroid II and this OT is riddled with spoiler tags so yeah, I think people should continue to properly tag spoilers. The OT includes several Metroid forms but
no Queen is shown.
Seems deliberate to me now, as that would have been awesome to come across without expecting it.
Thing is, people have been talking about more significant spoilers pertaining to Samus Returns without spoiler tags for a couple pages now and I didn't see anyone complaining.
Hmm, I see numerous spoiler tags all over the thread, just scroll through the previous page or two. Anyway, thanks for tagging it, I don't mean to seem like I'm targeting you personally.
more like not months of poison from a fanbase that decided to hate and avoid the game like the plague plus the game type not really fitting in with the platform. the quality was always there.
more like not months of poison from a fanbase that decided to hate and avoid the game like the plague plus the game type not really fitting in with the platform. the quality was always there.
Thanks, that puts my mind at ease, didn't read the rest you typed haha.
Samus Returns is the first time many of us get to experience Metroid II and this OT is riddled with spoiler tags so yeah, I think people should continue to properly tag spoilers. The OT includes several Metroid forms but
no Queen is shown.
Seems deliberate to me now, as that would have been awesome to come across without expecting it.
Hmm, I see numerous spoiler tags all over the thread, just scroll through the previous page or two. Anyway, thanks for tagging it, I don't mean to seem like I'm targeting you personally.
It's hard to fully avoid spoilers in threads like this. Not enough conversation around it to have a spoiler thread, and everyone's spoiler definition is a little different (for some it's only story, for some the original is old enough for it not to matter, etc). I think everyone generally tries to keep it safe, but inevitably I see stuff I don't wanna know.
I used to not be very sensitive to it, but more and more I feel like I'm realizing that a lot of the joy of playing comes from the unexpected - not so much the story, but the more ludic surprises games try and throw at you. So I just try my best to avoid OTs until after I'm done.
Thanks, that puts my mind at ease, didn't read the rest you typed haha.
Samus Returns is the first time many of us get to experience Metroid II and this OT is riddled with spoiler tags so yeah, I think people should continue to properly tag spoilers. The OT includes several Metroid forms but
no Queen is shown.
Seems deliberate to me now, as that would have been awesome to come across without expecting it.
Hmm, I see numerous spoiler tags all over the thread, just scroll through the previous page or two. Anyway, thanks for tagging it, I don't mean to seem like I'm targeting you personally.
So far this game is more reminiscent of the Prime games or Super wrt the power ups, and unlike Fusion/ZM. There all pretty easy to get and don't have the crazy elaborate set-ups (usually with the super jump/spine shark ) you could find in those other games.
Haha, tell me about it. I think I've struggled to see Ridley as anything but a joke sincr Fusion due to that stupid scream.
Also, I'm not sure what others think, but god, I hated how large enemies looked in the GBA games. Stuff like Ridley (especially in ZM) and the Omega look too flat and "static" (?), like they're part of the background or something. A far cry from how "alive" Ridley and Kraid looked in Super, so I'm super glad this game nailed large enemies and their animations, it's been so long since a 2D Metroid looked this consistently good.
more like not months of poison from a fanbase that decided to hate and avoid the game like the plague plus the game type not really fitting in with the platform. the quality was always there.
Brilliant return to form for the series; well done Mercury Steam and Mr. Sakamoto.
A few niggles I had with the game:
[midgame sequence]
The chase - pure trial and error. Hard to believe anyone could succeed on their first try. At least they give you checkpoints.
[lategame boss]
The big robot boss fight felt overlong and it's sometimes unclear how you're supposed to damage it. However, the music is pretty great and it was cool to see some Prime-inspired game design (like using the spiderball to access and bomb parts of its body).
[endgame boss]
Shoehorning Ridley into the game. He doesn't have to be in every game. Although I have to admit the fight was pretty good and I do like his half organic/half robotic design.
And obviously it's a little uncomfortable the control, but that's not the game's fault so much as it is the platform's.
Sales in Japan aren't great (and won't have any legs) but we have to be sure we understand that expectations for a 7th year release of a title is never going to perform "exceptionally". Don't expect skyhigh expectations from Nintendo for this (or any) project on the 3DS. The amiibo are part of how they further monetize for the project and those have all sold well so that further helps the series.
On Amazon, at least, for the west it seems to be chugging along well for the year so maybe we'll have some good numbers come NPD.
It didn't do absolutely terribly in UK either and that bodes well for markets like Germany and France.
Question about a section in Area 3, not sure what to do: I killed a Metroid in a lava section, which took me through a series of linear tunnels I needed to grapple/jump through. Now after there's an entire pool of lava which would need the gravity suit... Do I just turn back here and backtrack all the way? Seems like I'm missing something because I get dropped just before the lava pool when I die.
Question about a section in Area 3, not sure what to do: I killed a Metroid in a lava section, which took me through a series of linear tunnels I needed to grapple through. Now after there's a lava section which would need the gravity suit... Do I just turn back here and backtrack all the way? Seems like I'm missing something because I got dropped just before the lava section when I die.
I think I know where you're at, and if so then yeah, I think you need to get back, unless the Metroid sensor is beeping. Isn't there a teleporter nearby?
Either way, remember that you can use Metroid DNA at the altars to make it mark one of the remaining ones on your map.
Question about a section in Area 3, not sure what to do: I killed a Metroid in a lava section, which took me through a series of linear tunnels I needed to grapple/jump through. Now after there's an entire pool of lava which would need the gravity suit... Do I just turn back here and backtrack all the way? Seems like I'm missing something because I get dropped just before the lava pool when I die.
Yes, you can't get there without the suit afaik. I tried and even if you managed to grab the upgrade at the end (I don't think that's even possible mind you), you'd die trying to come back.
I think I know where you're at, and if so then yeah, I think you need to get back, unless the Metroid sensor is beeping. Isn't there a teleporter nearby?
Either way, remember that you can use Metroid DNA at the altars to make it mark one of the remaining ones on your map.
It's not that I ran out of areas to explore, it's just that it seemed like the game was pushing me to make a circle back to an earlier area. Backtracking made less sense. At least I know I can turn back now, thanks.
After getting the game and 3ds on Friday my impressions after 5 days is holy shit I am glad this exists. Best game for the 3ds hands down. It pushed out Majoras Mask for top spot. I hope Nintendo gets some more Amiibos out there as I have seen the Amazon prices for the two pack and they are ridiculous.
Just had a marathoning play session from Area 6 to the end.
Whew, those bosses were really stepping up and reminded me what I dug about Mercury Steam's stronger boss outings within the three LoS titles.
It's almost a shame that the metroid murdering focus seemed to put something of a limiter on other boss encounters.
Diggernaut was so legit, felt shades of Prime with that one.
*A bunch of super endgame spoilers*
I will never not mark out for DA RIDDLER.
Also why was I legit tearing up when the metroid hatchling pops out and Samus slowly decides to not blast it to the depths of Area *insert a double digit number here*? I'm getting mushy, catching feels in my brooding silent space genocide simulator.
Also was way more thrilled than someone should be for the X parasite cameo, now to avoid making a game that takes place after Fusion Nintendo will just task MS on a Fusion remake (ignoring that wacky "Other M" remake).
I may go back to get 100% items, if nothing else I'm going to go back and figure out what the deuce is with those red spike tunnels.
It feels so satisfying to pull down the Metroid Queen with the Grapple Beam, roll through her open mouth and throat and into her gut with the Morph Ball, and lay a Power Bomb. Mercury Steam took one of the most bullshit moments of Other M and made it fun and interactive and the best part is that, like the original Metroid 2, some players never even realized that option existed on their first playthrough.
I'd love to see Nintendo and MS remake Fusion before they move onto V. I think that's a game that could benefit from a few extended sequences and a completely redo of the soundtrack. The GBA audio limitations killed Fusion from achieving any kind of legendary status.
The biggest issue I had with Fusion was inability to skip text (and honestly, even on a first playthrough where I care about story, there's an excessive amount of text; could be trimmed). The overall structure could stand to be a little less rigid, but ultimately works really well for the game. I'm not sure the game really needs a remake, but I'd love to see where they go with it.
Eh, I like Fusion, but I think it's so mediocre as a whole that even though it could benefit from a remake, I don't want them to waste any time with it.
Plus ZM and SR mostly exist because their original incarnation aren't up to the series' standards post Super, which meant a lot of Super fans hadn't played the originals at all. And well, ANOTHER remake now that they got a developer who could consistently work on the series instead of Metroid 5 would be such a kick in the nuts.
Eh, I like Fusion, but I think it's so mediocre as a whole that even though it could benefit from a remake, I don't want them to waste any time with it.
Plus ZM and SR mostly exist because their original incarnation aren't up to the series' standards post Super, which meant a lot of Super fans hadn't played the originals at all. And well, ANOTHER remake now that they got a developer who could consistently work on the series instead of Metroid 5 would be such a kick in the nuts.
That is pretty true. 1 and 2 feel really rough around the edges, and are hard to get into. They still have a lot of merit and are playable and fun once you adjust for a bit, but the remakes do a lot for them. Fusion, etc already look great and control great.
I agree, none of the rest of the 2D games needed remakes. I know myself, and many of us are happy with Super Metroid on various virtual consoles, especially 3DS.
The audio is trash and brings down the overall experience. Though I do feel that Other M is sort of a retelling of Fusion so I guess a straight remake would have less impact, but I'd love to see how they'd approach the X Samus sequences.
Just finished. I still am going back for 100%, and I will put spoiler thoughts below. My non-spoiler thoughts: exactly what the series needed, especially for a revival. This game was everything I hoped for and more. This is easily the second best 2D Metroid. (Super being #1)
Spoiler thoughts:
Holy fucking shit Ridley!
That fight was badass, and seeing the baby help already was cool. Unfortunately I never nailed the melee counter against him though. I liked that we saw Samus in her ship clearly setting a course for Ceres Space Station, almost in Rogue One fashion.
That X parasite tease at the end was cool to see!
I honestly thought they might omit any mention of them, but nope, they actually showed origins of Fusion. I also looked at the Chozo Memories, but I don't have all the pieces. I am going back for 100%
though. One has me legit curious where I could see in the upper left corner that the X and Metroids were fighting.
I'm being told I need 100% to see the "real" ending, so I will do that.
Count me in the "prefers Fusion Omega Metroid" camp. This one ain't BAD, but it doesn't feel as scary as it should. Fusion (and AM2R's) is just a lot more threatening, even if it was more or less a T-Rex.
The new Zeta is good, but the evolution just looks off
By the way, does anyone remember hearing the "puzzle solved" jingle from the Prime trilogy in this? The audio file is in the game's data but I don't recall hearing it at all.
It feels so satisfying to pull down the Metroid Queen with the Grapple Beam, roll through her open mouth and throat and into her gut with the Morph Ball, and lay a Power Bomb. Mercury Steam took one of the most bullshit moments of Other M and made it fun and interactive and the best part is that, like the original Metroid 2, some players never even realized that option existed on their first playthrough.
I didn't know you could do that??? I just shot her mouth LOL. I did things the hard way Maybe that's why I thought she was the hardest boss in the game.
In regards to the Grapple Beam, I like how they actually still gave it some uses later in the game. Because let's face it, in Super Metroid, once you got the Space Jump, there was literally no reason at all to equip the Grapple Beam. In this game, the SJ still makes the GB obsolete as a means for transversing across gaps, but you still need to use it to push blocks, latch on to grapple blocks to get across claustrophobic areas covered in spikes, and for some of the boss battles like the Zeta Metroid
I like the game a lot. I was feeling mixed about it after the first day I played it--certain things like the counter were better than I thought they'd be and I was simply glad to be playing a new 2D Metroid again. At the same time, the audio felt oddly non-present for a series that I regularly listen to old soundtracks from, I was getting really bored of those bats, and the counter system seemed overpowered against bosses.
That day took me roughly through Area 2.
Yesterday, I played Area 3 through 6 and my impressions of the game generally improved as it went. By Area 5, I was particularly feeling it. The areas got more unique; the monsters more varied; the traversal and weapons suite got more interesting; the more evolved Metroids started showing up, making the boss fights much more exciting and counter lost its twinge of 'eh I cut that fight off before it got interesting.'
It felt like Metroid was back. I was now more happy because of my time with the game than because the game existed and signaled hope to us, usually a crowd full up on doubt and distress wrt the franchise.
Today, I finished up Area 7 through the end, taking time before the final boss to get to 100% so that I could see the teaser image for the proposed future of 2d Metroid. The ending bosses were thrilling and just on the edge of eminently doable and requiring focus.
Some more specific thoughts:
As to collection: As I said above, this is in line with Super Metroid and Metroid Prime wrt the collection of collectibles. It is about finding them and doing some simple tricks with your power ups to get them. It does not design 100% around mastering complicated, secret techniques to solve intricate platforming puzzles. It is a very doable 100%.
On a related note: I think scan is useful and needn't "break the game." I don't think it is the devil. I used it to detect just what block to bomb like I would the X-ray visor. Sometimes, that also showed me rooms I didn't expect, but usually, it just revealed what I thought must be there.
As to the combat: the game needed more enemy types requiring varying tactics. They did change up the counter enemies and throw varying types of them at you. There are also some enemy types that aren't built on counter. But I don't think either are at the quantity they should be.
The boss fights stayed engaging because although bosses were repeated they had varying rooms to fight in and also had randomized patterns. You weren't always looking for that one moment to counter or attack--it might not show up for a while--and instead were taking varying opportunities as they came.
I also feel that although the counter animations could be long, they remained satisfying and this didn't become an issue in play, even if when I watched the stream it did become an issue for me.
Free-aim is awesome. It is much easier to get missiles in peoples mouths now and it is balanced by locking you on the spot, GCN Metroid Prime style.
Power-ups: Grapple was used particularly well imo. I liked the puzzles where you had to pull things this way and that in order to go through different channels or block things. I liked the makeshift boost ball. (Aeion Ability)
Time stop
was used to great effect towards some of the collectibles imo, and I didn't mind that it produced a similar effect to boost with a lower skill demand on the player.
Exploration: I prefer my Metroid more interconnected than clearly stage driven, i.e. I prefer my Metroid Prime and Super Metroid, which weave you irregularly through the zones, to my Metroid Fusion or Prime 2&3. Metroid II falls into the latter category. I think this was less obvious in the original, where it was feeling your way blindly through a maze in one general direction. The more explicit area demarcations make it more obvious here. At the same time this is a game more like a Prime 2 or 3 than a Fusion. The areas are very large. This helps off-set the problem as there is more to figuring out the shape of the levels and you get more sucked into each, lessening the feeling of being linearly shunted from one to the next.
Perhaps paradoxically, I liked the tighter design of 5 through 8 more than the looser design of 1 through 4. I got lost in a couple of the early zones searching for Metroids, while in the later zones I played more efficiently. The combination of being near fully powered and being able to suss out my mission sucked me into the game.
(It is a fine line with Metroid. I like knowing where I am going, but I like that seeming non-obvious. Things like "I just got the speed booster, I can go back to Norfair." The game doesn't tell you that. It usually does provide a convenient path to get there though, and I take great joy in remembering these signals and trying to be as efficient as I can in my retreads.)
Aesthetics: They definitely went with a more feminine Samus suit appearance. I think this is a good thing. Put together with problematic representation of her gender, feminizing her suit is cast in a problematic look: it looks like part and parcel of the same move towards problematizing the fact that Samus is both a woman and Samus. But taken out of that context, I think it collapses some of the barrier that has always existed between Samus the trophy who shows you sexy pictures and Samus the bounty hunter, i.e. it makes it clear that you are always playing that woman Samus.
Tbh, Sakamoto wasn't wrong to pull back the visor and try to get in her head. What annoys people is that he takes doing so and finding the woman Samus in such a particular obnoxious character assassinating way, which, furthermore, seems misogynistic, or at least could be so.
I do think the high heels shouldn't be there, but the curvier and sleeker lines of the suit are fine.
I also think the suit is a mixed bag. I really don't like this rendition of the pauldrons. I think they did interesting things to the back and legs, though.
...
The music stayed mostly not memorable for me. There are tunes there I like a lot. IDK what the problem is. It just seems the OST completely lacks presence where Metroid OSTs usually suck me in.
While getting to 100% I paid attention to what Toxi was saying about the backgrounds versus the tile set, and I think he/she is correct wrt those. There are some cool backgrounds. I also think some levels have identifying usage of foreground environmental details, like 5 and water. But, the game would benefit from a more varied and interesting tileset.
Ending image:
Chozo!!!! Tbh I like this image. As I've discussed on GAF before, I really want Metroid to turn back to a) the Chozo, b) the creation of the Metroids, c) the power suit, and d) Samus. Yeah I get that the Metroids were used (and seemingly created specifically to such purpose, though I resist the necessity of that ) to fight the X. I like to think though that they are the off-shoot of the same techno-spiritual trade that created the power suit. I like to think there is a connection between the energy sucking properties of one and the energy generated properties of the other. I like to think this has to do with the end of the Chozo and Samus's upbringing. This is the general area my dream game has dealt with since I first played these games.
So the image: what I got from that was an evil Chozo greeted as an honored guest who took over the the establishment on SR388 in the midst of a Chozo/Metroid war (with the evolutions of the Metroids seemingly being a result of them turning against their creators). There are dead Chozo bodies and he has some soldiers. The sky is red. Etc. This speaks to me that they plan to give us a closer look at the events surrounding the creation of Metroids and a closer look at the Chozo themselves.
Started playing it for 2 or 3 hours. I like it a lot but something is off.
Not sure what it is. Lack of new power ups or variety? The environments are off, not sure what they are supposed to represent. An old laboratory? An old temple? The different areas don't make sense next to each other. In 8bit 2D, your imagination did its job but in full 3D I don't know. Maybe it has to do with the foreground tileset as said earlier?
That said, 360 aiming is awesome, the controls and responsiveness are spot on.
But at the moment, it's still a bit stuck in the past in terms of surprises.
I'm waiting for a re-invention Breath Of The Wild-style.
Metroid Prime 4, by the title alone, is not going to be it probably.
