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MGSV's pacing is... off(bad). Some spoliers
- Thread starter Special C
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semiconscious
Gold Member
...
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Maybe so, and I must stress that I have no opinion of the game itself, its just the trailers and stuff really haven't done a good job of selling it to me. I think they really shot themselves in the foot with them showing the griffon fight as their lead set-piece, for a big Dragon's Dogma fan like me it really didn't impress - and with that game coming soon on PC... its a tough sell!
Another six months? This is Kojima we're talking about. I'm sure he wanted at least another year. IMO Kojima is the best AND worst thing in videogame development. Too ambitious for his own good.
GameWhisperer
Banned
I loved MGS V for awhile, but by the time I got to Chapter 23 and On I was already bored, still never finished it. Gameplay is great but gets repetitive quickly, don't agree with all the 9's and 10 review scores but that's just me.
Wait... Dragon's Dogma is coming to PC?
Good lord heavens rejoice.
TW3's Griffin fight is great - but this wont come thru in videos. The game has a very singular sense of combat and how combat works. It's all about oiling your swords right, using the right spells against the right enemies, knowing how they'll behave, maintaining your weaponry and keeping yourself stocked with limited potions, etc. Dragon's Dogma is phenomenal, but it is basically pure hack and slash (unless you mage). TW3 is actually mainly strategy. It really makes you play the 'role' of a monster hunter. Apples to oranges, really - you should definitely try TW3. The world is the most rich, well developed, and interactive i've ever seen in an RPG.
Totally derailing here, though
Yeah I wasn't impressedby the game. The gameplay is pretty good but everything around it is not reaaly special. The missions are pretty basic, Big Boss being an almost silent protag even in situation where he should speak is weird, feeding most of the story to the player through the tapes, the stupid timers and ressources collecting. All kind of strange design decisions that made the game a lot less interesting to me.
TPP is my personal GOTL4Ys...
It has flaws, but the story isn't my main issue, though.
This is more a case of "what this game easily could have been".
I mean the game teases it: Subsistence missions, Quiet encounter, ...
The game has too many little ideas and none of them are fully fleshed out and sometimes concepts seem to work against it other.
Like another Gaffer said "MGSV is in limbo between Sim and Arcade"
The pacing may not be good (or even bad), but they at least tried something new.
I'm pretty bored with the Open-World genre, even W3 did nothing for me, so new approaches are welcomed....
For me personally Kojima's biggest mistake was to draw inspiration from games like FC3 and RDR instead of games like Operation Flashpoint/Arma, old Ghost Recon games and so on.
...and another thing no one seems to talk about: the console-centric development was a limitation for the open world concept in MGSV (for example: the inability of the AI to handle the whole map properly)
It has flaws, but the story isn't my main issue, though.
This is more a case of "what this game easily could have been".
I mean the game teases it: Subsistence missions, Quiet encounter, ...
The game has too many little ideas and none of them are fully fleshed out and sometimes concepts seem to work against it other.
Like another Gaffer said "MGSV is in limbo between Sim and Arcade"
The pacing may not be good (or even bad), but they at least tried something new.
I'm pretty bored with the Open-World genre, even W3 did nothing for me, so new approaches are welcomed....
For me personally Kojima's biggest mistake was to draw inspiration from games like FC3 and RDR instead of games like Operation Flashpoint/Arma, old Ghost Recon games and so on.
...and another thing no one seems to talk about: the console-centric development was a limitation for the open world concept in MGSV (for example: the inability of the AI to handle the whole map properly)
Oddvintagechap
Banned
Basically this... I enjoy the gameplay... But where's the story.. And it feel like it's a list of chores.. Open world .. Worse thing ever..
I won't trust reviews next time.. More ...dots.. Hell I enjoyed the order 1886 more... So disappointed.
RetrospectiveLamb
Member
I thought it has the best gameplay of the MGS franchise, but I've found the story to be the least fulfilling of the franchise. However, I think the versatility of stealth and combat in terms of game design far outweigh the shortcomings of the plot. Because it's so different compared to other MGS games, it's my 3rd favorite MGS game
I don't understand why people keep saying this. I doubt anyone would change their opinion of it just because it has a different label, I know I certainly wouldn't. The mistake was not resolving everything in chapter one and having a chapter 2/epilogue/conclusion/whatever at all.
crazyrabbits
Banned
Aside from the S-rank conditions, there's really no benefit to going full lethal in most missions.
Want to finish a mission quickly? There are a half-dozen missions in the game (Cloaked in Silence, Skull Face) that can be replayed either for easy GMP/supplies or speed bonuses.
Killing soldiers? Highly discouraged, both from a time/efficiency standpoint and the overall metagame. The volunteers you get after each missions are far less than the potential number of captures you can get in one go, and the information you glean from interrogating soldiers is good enough to put you far ahead of the curve over the long run, and save time on exploration.
You gain much more heroism by interrogating and extracting soldiers than you would by going full lethal.
Most of the endgame rewards (D-Walker's F-Ballista, D-Dog's Tactical (Fulton) equipment, the highest tranq rifle for Quiet) are based around non-lethal alternatives.
QFT. MGS4 is one of my favorite games of all time. There are dozens of epic moments. The boss fights are great. The twists are stupid in the way that MGS twists are always stupid, and it has crazy weird Kojima-san sensibilities like Ocelot miming like he is shooting his guns during that boat cutscene.
MGSV just seems off. I honestly feel like it was supposed to be quite a bit more, and Kojima just tried to stitch everything together at the end to get it out the door. It has hints of greatness throughout, but feels somewhat unfinished.
There's unfinished plot points? Where the hell is Sahelanthropus in the rest of the MGS games. It clearly wasn't destroyed in 5, but it's not Rex and its not Ray. Kid liquid stole it and then did... what with it, exactly?
I will say that I actually really liked the prologue. It was epic, and immersive, raised some great mysteries and does an excellent job of foreshadowing the plot twist, without actually giving it away directly. That scene, and the scene where you kill everybody in quarantine are probably the only scenes that have that MGS flair.
Most of the missions in 5 are sort of pointless. They are just like things that some government hired you to do, but have no real impact on what's going on.
The characterization is terrible. Venom Snake doesn't really have any personality, other than whatever personality you imagine him to have. That might be the point... but it's sort of pointless.
I can't really understand why Ocelot was in the game. He seems like a completely different character than in 3, or any of the characters past that. So, he's ready to torture Eli throughout MGSV, but then 10 years later he's working for him? Like, how does that work, exactly?
I dunno, I still enjoyed MGS V, but IMO, it's the worst mainline MGS Game. the gameplay in 3, 4, and 2 was already great. This is more interesting in some ways, but also somewhat less varied.
Honestly, I think he's the guy that if you give him enough money, he'll bring the videogame medium forward and try a bunch of new stuff.
I really liked the idea of him working with an established director though. It could rein in some of his silliness that IMO holds his work back from being thought of as serious (though it is also his signature).
A lot of people seem to hate things in this game that I honestly don't mind.
I don't think anybody has actually explained how the open world really functions in the game. Some people are too critical, some are too praising. It's a weird thing.
The prologue mission, though, was pretty boring. It didn't feel like an older MGS game for me.
I don't think anybody has actually explained how the open world really functions in the game. Some people are too critical, some are too praising. It's a weird thing.
The prologue mission, though, was pretty boring. It didn't feel like an older MGS game for me.
MGS4 deserved it than and MGSV deserves it now.
Bloodbourne would be okay if it won it but It would be a Travesty if the Witcher 3 won it, that's an insult.
Ghost Slayer
Member
Lack of boss battles really kills its pacing imo
The open world allows you to approach any individual base, big or small, from almost any vantage point. That's really good. The problem is everything in-between, which is vast, empty and boring. That's really bad. The problem is that it feels like it's necessary for seamless loading like on Mother Base how there's so much space between each platform area. It's ridiculous. If the map was more compact, like it was in Ground Zeroes, it'd be much more enjoyable with a lot less downtime.
GreyOcelot
Member
uhhh....what. are we talking about a game here? because MGSV is without a doubt the superior metal gear game. by far
It's the superior game sure, but I would struggle to call it a superior Metal Gear game. If you aren't spending at least 45 minutes out of every hour of the game watching insultingly bad cutscenes where everyone repeats the last thing the other person said then it isn't a successful Metal Gear game
MGS5 isn't very Metal Gear-y to me. A lot of stuff feels very inconsequential and there's very little payoff. For a game that has so much meat, there's not much bone holding it together.
brandonh83
Banned
All I know is that I didn't have to force myself to get through MGS4.
Maybe it's me that's weird. I enjoy that empty space between bases. I enjoy the horse riding. I don't want to write that stuff completely off.
I think that sadly the emptiness of the open world is down to the game being pushed out unfinished
There is no way I can see a man as addicted to the tiny little details as Kojima being happy with a pretty but barren world.
Would have loved to have seen this game as it was clearly meant to be. I love what we got but you can tell there should be so much more.
There is no way I can see a man as addicted to the tiny little details as Kojima being happy with a pretty but barren world.
Would have loved to have seen this game as it was clearly meant to be. I love what we got but you can tell there should be so much more.
The limited story is spread out way too thin. So many missions involve you killing or rescuing some dude for reasons.
"Boss, we talked to the dude you extracted. Turns out... Cipher. We'll look into it."
The missions are so well-designed and the game mechanics are fantastic so I didn't really mind, but the story links to the missions in such a poor, almost non-existent way.
"Boss, we talked to the dude you extracted. Turns out... Cipher. We'll look into it."
The missions are so well-designed and the game mechanics are fantastic so I didn't really mind, but the story links to the missions in such a poor, almost non-existent way.
I finished the game today. Overall had a great time with it, but the pacing does become very erratic in chapter 2: some loose ends are tied off (sort of) in random side ops than full missions; having to knock off three supposedly optional side ops to keep advancing the story was annoying; and then the real ending mission (which is a chore to play through) just comes out of nowhere to drop on the final twist on you, with basically no build-up to it whatsoever. I enjoyed the story (more or less) in these parts anyway but they come out you so randomly.
The game was definitely shipped unfinished, but even that aside, I don't understand why Kojima grouped together 31 missions into a single chapter. Wouldn't it have just made more sense to structure it as chapter 1 being missions 1-6, chapter 2 being 7-12, chapter 3 being 13-20, etc? Why are 50 missions being spread among just two chapters? You're right that it definitely sets up this weird expectation of chapter 2 being the second half of the game when it's really more of the last quarter or so.
The game was definitely shipped unfinished, but even that aside, I don't understand why Kojima grouped together 31 missions into a single chapter. Wouldn't it have just made more sense to structure it as chapter 1 being missions 1-6, chapter 2 being 7-12, chapter 3 being 13-20, etc? Why are 50 missions being spread among just two chapters? You're right that it definitely sets up this weird expectation of chapter 2 being the second half of the game when it's really more of the last quarter or so.
Yes, it makes the world feel more real and grounded too. I prefer that to having shit every 5 metres.
I've loved all the other Metal Gears, but MGS5 was kind of a disappointment for me. The mission structure is so repetitive I had to force myself through it. It doesn't help that the world is empty and boring to traverse. I never felt bored like that in any other MGS game. It's also lacking the memorable soundtrack and boss battles I've come to love in the previous games.
It's still probably in my top 3 games of the year, but for me it doesn't live up to the rest of the series.
It's still probably in my top 3 games of the year, but for me it doesn't live up to the rest of the series.
But... But it's open world. Seriously though, I'm currently burnt out on the game. Haven't finished it but I've got 60-ish hours and I just need a break. I have almost a Destiny type feeling where the gameplay had me hook, line, and sinker but I've just run out of compelling ways to exercise that gameplay.
I'd consider myself a huge MGS fan; heck, my PSN tag is based off MGS but I still can't bring myself to finish the game. Managing the base, doing so identical missions over and over..it just feels like work.
I actually really enjoyed the intro, I just hate how most events after that feel like filler until you get a new buddy to take into combat or something and the story seems to be moving along. I actually prefer the tightly controlled "movie game" feel of the past MGS games.
I actually really enjoyed the intro, I just hate how most events after that feel like filler until you get a new buddy to take into combat or something and the story seems to be moving along. I actually prefer the tightly controlled "movie game" feel of the past MGS games.
I had to swallow the vomit back down after throwing up in my mouth reading this. I wouldn't want to know any person who has this view, like have to look at them. Your brain has to be to wired differently or something. It actually freaks me out trying to imagine and believe that such people really exist in this world.
thequickandthedead
Member
I wonder how many of the people who are burnt out on this game played Peace Walker...
brandonh83
Banned
My two cents:
I've played at least a bit of every console Metal Gear game(only beat MGS4 and Revengenance up until now though). And funny enough, Revengenance was my favorite of the games until now despite being a spinoff.
I'm at the cusp of getting the true ending now(I already know the twist), but despite its flaws, this is my new favorite Metal Gear game(and would be my GOTY so far if not for Witcher 3).
As others have said, the gameplay is excellent. Just a joy to play for me, unlike the tough controls of previous entries. There is of course some elements of repetition, but I've put basically 100 hours into the game, and I have no issues at all with how it plays.
However, there are other issues with the game. The prologue was a slog to play through, despite being wacky story-wise(and now I hear I have to do it again? Ugh). The story is meh, especially Act 2. The mission structure and how to reach new missions can be confusing and dumb. There are too many times when the story hampers player acheivement for the sake of realism(both outbreaks costing you soldiers, etc).
But despite all its flaws, the game has managed to devour a lot of my free time(and that of a good friend who hasn't liked any Metal Gear game before now). I love the game, I really do. It's a great game. But I can't help but feel that it could have been legendary with a few changes.
I've played at least a bit of every console Metal Gear game(only beat MGS4 and Revengenance up until now though). And funny enough, Revengenance was my favorite of the games until now despite being a spinoff.
I'm at the cusp of getting the true ending now(I already know the twist), but despite its flaws, this is my new favorite Metal Gear game(and would be my GOTY so far if not for Witcher 3).
As others have said, the gameplay is excellent. Just a joy to play for me, unlike the tough controls of previous entries. There is of course some elements of repetition, but I've put basically 100 hours into the game, and I have no issues at all with how it plays.
However, there are other issues with the game. The prologue was a slog to play through, despite being wacky story-wise(and now I hear I have to do it again? Ugh). The story is meh, especially Act 2. The mission structure and how to reach new missions can be confusing and dumb. There are too many times when the story hampers player acheivement for the sake of realism(both outbreaks costing you soldiers, etc).
But despite all its flaws, the game has managed to devour a lot of my free time(and that of a good friend who hasn't liked any Metal Gear game before now). I love the game, I really do. It's a great game. But I can't help but feel that it could have been legendary with a few changes.
This my first MGS game and while i like it I am running through it pretty easy. Side Ops are fun but its the same thing for each one. Little stealth then guns blazing and its over. Don't even need to use most of the gear I build. Sure it will start to get old to me after another dozen mission or so.
WordsintheWater
Member
SamuelSupreme
Banned
Couldnt have said it better myself.
Haha, that's a great way to sum up the general progression of the story.
AgentLampshade
Member
Is this a popular opinion? The opening was absolutely fantastic to me.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
The prologue mission is incredible. The rest of the game......
Sorry dude, its true. MGS4 is a better, more complete game.
This is exactly how I feel about the game. It feels like a watered down MGS experience, and I say that as a gigantic MGS fan.
Sorry dude, its true. MGS4 is a better, more complete game.
This is exactly how I feel about the game. It feels like a watered down MGS experience, and I say that as a gigantic MGS fan.
AgentLampshade
Member
The opening was fine the first time through, since the player themselves were in the same role. Unfamiliar with the controls, unsure what was coming next, frantically running from the MOF. But it loses that edge going through it again. By this time you ARE familiar with the controls, you know what's coming next, and you'll be laughing at the MOF knowing he goes out with a resounding "WHOOOOOOO." The fact that the mission just randomly appears out of nowhere is stupid too.
I strongly disagree with this. That's an example of great pacing. The tension increases, you're obliged to blast through the important story missions because your staff are dropping like flies. It's the equivalent of a peak in the "interest curve" that all well paced games have.
Compare that to mass effect: the galaxy is going to be destroyed - let's go do some pointless shit! The game lets you do things that are so polar opposite to what the narrative is suggesting you do. In MGS, you can go off and dick around, but the game fits with the narrative. You're going to lose your staff, so you should worry and get on with saving them.
I feel like a lot of people use "pacing" as a sort of nebulous complain that's impossible to argue with because half the time no one knows what exactly they're referring to.