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MH17 probe: BUK missile came from Russia, was fired by pro-Russian rebels

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chadskin

Member
International prosecutors investigating the downing of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014 say the missile that hit the plane was fired from territory controlled by Russian-backed rebels.

They said the missile launcher was brought into Ukraine from Russia.


All 298 people on board the Boeing 777 died when it broke apart in midair flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

Relatives told the BBC that prosecutors told them they would investigate about 100 people over the incident.

"They told us how the Buk was transported [and] how they came to that evidence from phone taps, photo, film material, video," Robby Oehler, whose niece was killed in the crash, told the BBC.

The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) consists of prosecutors from the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37495067

Press release:
The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) is convinced of having obtained irrefutable evidence to establish that on 17 July 2014, flight MH-17 was shot down by a BUK missile from the 9M38-series. According to the JIT there is also evidence identifying the launch location that involves an agricultural field near Pervomaiskyi which, at the time, was controlled by pro-Russian fighters. This was announced today by the JIT during a presentation for the relatives of the victims. Members of the JIT, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia, the Netherlands and Ukraine, are working together on the criminal investigation into the crash of flight MH17.

Today, the interim results of the criminal investigation which included the findings regarding the weapon and launch location were presented. The investigation into those responsible for the crash will take more time.

Scenarios
All forensic examinations, witness statements, telecom information, satellite images, radar data, findings by experts and other supporting evidence point to an attack by a ground based air defence system. In addition, the JIT has also investigated other alternative scenarios.

Of these alternative scenarios, an accident and evidence for a terrorist attack from inside the aircraft have been ruled out. Results from the forensic investigation support the scenario of an attack from outside the aircraft. The scenario that flight MH17 was shot down by a military aircraft was explored and discounted on the basis of radar data, witness testimonies and forensic research. The JIT has obtained sufficient radar data, both from Russia and Ukraine, which – when viewed in conjunction – provide a full picture of the airspace over eastern Ukraine. This shows that at the time of the crash, no other airplanes were in the vicinity that could have shot down flight MH17.

The Russian Federation mentioned last week that they have found ‘new’ primary radar images. Based on those images the Russian Federation concludes also that there was no second airplane that could have shot down MH17.

Weapon
The investigation demonstrated that flight MH17 was shot down by a 9M38 series BUK missile. Investigators have compared parts of the alleged weapon which were found at the crash site with reference material. This involved the dismantling of various types of BUK missiles from the 9M38 series and comparing this reference material with the metal parts recovered from the crash site.

On the right side animation 1: the weapon

Forensic investigation
The investigation team had to establish a link between the parts found and the downing of flight MH17. It had to be proven that the parts had not been in the area prior to the crash, and that they had not been placed there by third parties after the crash. The crash site was not fenced off for the purpose of forensic examination. It was clear that persons other than the investigators had access to the crash site.

Two examples of the link were presented:

  • During the autopsy of the bodies of the cockpit crew, several fragments were found that belonged to the warhead of a 9M38 series BUK missile. One of these fragments found showed traces of cockpit glass on the surface, which was the same unique type of glass that is used for the a Boeing 777. It was determined that the fragment pierced the aircraft from the outside through the cockpit window.
  • In the frame of one of the cockpit windows a metal piece was found which was identified as a part of a 9M38 series BUK missile. This piece was located in a twisted position in the frame, making it clear that it was shot into the window frame with great force.
On the right side animation 2: Forensic investigation

Transport of the missile installation
The JIT has been able to identify a large part of the route concerning the arrival and the departure of the BUK-TELAR. This was the result of intercepted telephone conversations, witness statements, photographs and videos that had been posted on social media, and a video never shown before which was obtained from a witness. The system was transported from Russian territory into eastern Ukraine and was later transported on a white Volvo truck with a low-boy trailer. The truck was escorted by several other vehicles and by armed men in uniform.

Launch site
The final destination of the BUK-system was on farmland near Pervomaiskyi. Evidence that supports this includes multiple witnesses who saw and photographed the condensation trail of the BUK missile and its movement through the air. Other witnesses were able to link the trail to the BUK-TELAR which they had seen earlier on 17 July 2014.

Witnesses were interviewed who had seen a plume of smoke, the BUK-TELAR at the launch site in Pervomaiskyi, and the missile right after it had been launched.

Journalists have spoken to witnesses who had seen the launch of the missile at a very short distance from the launch location. These witnesses testified that they heard a very loud noise and a high whistling sound.

After the BUK missile had been fired, the BUK-TELAR initially drove off under its own power. A short time later it was reloaded onto the Volvo truck and transported back to the Russian border. During the night, the convoy crossed the border into the territory of the Russian Federation.

On the right side animation 3 regarding the transport route and the launch site

Perpetrators
Now that we have established what happened, the investigation now focuses on the perpetrators. This will be a matter for the long haul. So far, the JIT has identified approximately 100 people who can be linked to the downing of MH17 or the transport of the BUK-TELAR. The JIT has been investigating these people through various sources, such as intercepted telephone conversations and witness statements.

In addition, an investigation is conducted into the chain of command. Who gave the order to bring the BUK-TELAR into Ukraine and who gave the order to shoot down flight MH17? Did the crew decide for themselves or did they execute a command from their superiors? This is important when determining the offences committed by the alleged perpetrators.

The JIT wishes to emphasise that it continues to seek additional information and evidence, including information from insider witnesses. Ukrainian law provides for lower sentences, and in certain circumstances relief from criminal liability, for those who cooperate with the investigation.

Intercepted telephone conversations
Furthermore, the website www.jitmh17.com now includes a number of intercepted telephone conversations. The JIT is now asking for information about certain people who participated in these conversations. People who can identify these voices are requested to report this to the JIT.

The JIT will be actively involved in the investigation in the coming period and for that reason the JIT agreement was extended yesterday, until 1 January 2018.
via https://www.politie.nl/en/news/2016...issile-from-a-farmland-near-pervomaiskyi.html
 

Henkka

Banned
No it didn't. Don't believe the West's lies!

I wonder how lucrative it would be to be a pro-Russia troll on GAF.
 
Sad that the only kind of 'punishment' Russia will get out of this is they probably just pay the victim's family some money and never admit guilt or apologize like when the US when it shot down Iran Air Flight 655.
 

Fred-87

Member
Most likely Russian seperatists did it im sure.
But why is Ukraine on the JIT. That is incredibly weired. A suspect..
Also all those tap-calls are unreliable. Ukraine is just as corrupt as Russia. All those taps can be faked by the Ukraine secret service.
 

AlphaDump

Gold Member
Most likely Russian seperatists did it im sure.
But why is Ukraine on the JIT. That is incredibly weired. A suspect..
Also all those tap-calls are unreliable. Ukraine is just as corrupt as Russia. All those taps can be faked by the Ukraine secret service.

So which excuse is it? You named a bunch
 

Dalibor68

Banned
Wasn't this already known? I could swear I read an article like that about dutch investigators coming to this conclusion already. Anyways, it's fucked up. Realistically there won't be any consequences though.

So which excuse is it? You named a bunch

(In regards to his first sentence) Well it was russian seperatists. Or do you think it was russian secret service people/regular military that drove a BUK into that territory themselves to purposefully shoot down a malaysian passenger plane?
 
Wasn't this already known? I could swear I read an article like that about dutch investigators coming to this conclusion already. Anyways, it's fucked up. Realistically there won't be any consequences though.
Afair, Dutch investigators could certainly say that an explosion of most likely from a rocket was the cause of the destruction but they didn't said anything about the party shooting that rocket.
 

Pedrito

Member
"MH17 probe results revealed in the Netherlands"
"MH17 PROBE: INT’L INVESTIGATORS SAY WILL DEFINITELY EXAMINE NEW RADAR IMAGES PRODUCED BY RUSSIA"

yeah

How convenient that new radar data was "found" a few days before the release of the results of the investigation.
 

Jackpot

Banned
What's Russia Today's take on this?

"But why would they blow up the plane when it only serves to make them look like a bunch of murderous thugs with no regard for human life like everyone's been saying they are? Why? It makes no sense!"
 
(In regards to his first sentence) Well it was russian seperatists. Or do you think it was russian secret service people/regular military that drove a BUK into that territory themselves to purposefully shoot down a malaysian passenger plane?

No one is claiming they knew it was a civilian airliner. There was a Breaking News report on DPR television they had just shot down a Ukrainian transport.
 

Weckum

Member
"MH17 probe results revealed in the Netherlands"
"MH17 PROBE: INT’L INVESTIGATORS SAY WILL DEFINITELY EXAMINE NEW RADAR IMAGES PRODUCED BY RUSSIA"

yeah

Actually, their whole article isn't that bad.

edit: oh, link is banned. Anyway, their whole article isn't even that bad really. I've seen worse from them.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Actually, their whole article isn't that bad.

edit: oh, link is banned. Anyway, their whole article isn't even that bad really. I've seen worse from them.

I don't know if they have updated it since I read it, but it uses the old tactic of being a dry and aseptic block of text right until the end, where they put the official denial, countering the previous information on virtue of giving Russia the last word. Fairly standard procedure for RT.

With that said, this chart may need an update:

XdFYVjP.jpg
 

AlphaDump

Gold Member
I don't know if they have updated it since I read it, but it uses the old tactic of being a dry and aseptic block of text right until the end, where they put the official denial, countering the previous information on virtue of giving Russia the last word. Fairly standard procedure for RT.

With that said, this chart may need an update:

XdFYVjP.jpg

That chart is all kinds of amazing.
 

Engell

Member
"MH17 probe results revealed in the Netherlands"
"MH17 PROBE: INT’L INVESTIGATORS SAY WILL DEFINITELY EXAMINE NEW RADAR IMAGES PRODUCED BY RUSSIA"

yeah

"PRODUCED BY RUSSIA".. #TrumpWon

Shot down by separatist AKA. Russian Military personal on "vacation"
 

Weckum

Member
I don't know if they have updated it since I read it, but it uses the old tactic of being a dry and aseptic block of text right until the end, where they put the official denial, countering the previous information on virtue of giving Russia the last word. Fairly standard procedure for RT.

With that said, this chart may need an update:

XdFYVjP.jpg

They do use a lot of 'allegedly'.
 

Horns

Member
It's not even Russia's involvement in shooting the plane down that makes them the bad guy. It's the denial, propaganda, aiding, cover up, and secrecy that makes them one of the worst countries. They've been caught red handed, yet they've thrown out a half a dozen conspiracies about how it wasn't them.
 
Russia's reaction to this whole situation shows what a joke of a country they are. Can't even keep a simple cover-up story straight.
 
Russia's reaction to this whole situation shows what a joke of a country they are. Can't even keep a simple cover-up story straight.

Russia's intention was never to create a coherent cover story. There is so much information out there any cover would be blown, their tactic is to create as much confusion as possible where the official investigation becomes just another theory among many. That's how you can first produce so called radar proof of a Ukrainian plane and then more radar proof not showing anything. And use both to 'prove' your innocence.
 
Russia's intention was never to create a coherent cover story. There is so much information out there any cover would be blown, their tactic is to create as much confusion as possible where the official investigation becomes just another theory among many. That's how you can first produce so called radar proof of a Ukrainian plane and then more radar proof not showing anything. And use both to 'prove' your innocence.

It should be pretty cut and dry when the accused are the ones throwing out all the bullshit stories and the investigators have a cohesive story.

But I guess Russia is doing this more to convince their own citizens rather than the rest of the world.
 
Sad that the only kind of 'punishment' Russia will get out of this is they probably just pay the victim's family some money and never admit guilt or apologize like when the US when it shot down Iran Air Flight 655.

Nope. Denial for decades. Perhaps in 50 years a little cough of an apology
 
Honest question, I didn't know this was still in doubt? Wasn't there another report or study saying it was Russian Rocket fired by Russian Rebels?
 
Honest question, I didn't know this was still in doubt? Wasn't there another report or study saying it was Russian Rocket fired by Russian Rebels?

Even if there was a footage of Putin firing the missile himself Russians would not believe this story. So the idea was to do a very thorough independent investigation. That's what was presented today. But honestly I have no idea if this investigation changed anyone's mind. Sadly it seems like waste of time...

A bunch of Angry words from diplomats in Europe.

Not even that. Currently Russia has crazy amount of influence on Europe (Greece, Italy, UK, etc.).
 

Keasar

Member
What's Russia Today's take on this?

"Glorious Russian Missile System not involved after conclusive evidence from our Great Military Leadership. Capitalist lies defeated under our Fantastic Evidencial Powers."

Here's funny video of Putin petting a bear."
 
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