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Michael Pachter says Switch is easiest to develop compared to big three

Odd to hear Pachter say something positive about Nintendo. For them to truly turn things around, they need it to be the easiest to develop for. Much like the massive changes Sony had to do going into PS4, Nintendo needs to be humble and hungry and make the process of adding software easy and painless.
 
While everyone is distracted with the spec talk, there is still that rumor that Nintendo might actually allow retail units to be used for development by registering them with a developer account. Maybe that's what Patcher is hinting at?

This would be a game changer if true: while the barrier for console development got vastly lower this gen compared to the last, having to acquire a physical dev unit is still a barrier for a lot of people and it makes it harder to find hires with actual console experience compared with hires with mobile experience. It also makes it harder to include console development in education.

Personally, while I would love for it to happen, it would require Nintendo to either make their system airtight against hacking or have a strategy that allows for that to happen regardless of the risk of hacking.
This is really interesting. The next big hit can always come from a small, one-person band/team, so the lower the barrier of entry is for them, the better.
 
Everything we've heard about developing for Nintendo for the past 20 years would indicate that he is not talking about Nintendo overall here. Especially with the factors you listed.

I haven't yet watched the video though, so I'm not sure what the context is here. But even if he's referring to Nintendo as a whole, this is a HUGE turnaround from where they were back in the Wii U days.

Yeah those bolded factors are like the exact thing Nintendo has been criticized for the last twenty/thirty years.
 
While everyone is distracted with the spec talk, there is still that rumor that Nintendo might actually allow retail units to be used for development by registering them with a developer account. Maybe that's what Patcher is hinting at?

This would be a game changer if true: while the barrier for console development got vastly lower this gen compared to the last, having to acquire a physical dev unit is still a barrier for a lot of people and it makes it harder to find hires with actual console experience compared with hires with mobile experience. It also makes it harder to include console development in education.

Personally, while I would love for it to happen, it would require Nintendo to either make their system airtight against hacking or have a strategy that allows for that to happen regardless of the risk of hacking.

That... is pretty damn cool if the rumor proves to be true. I remember that Microsoft promised this for Xbox One and just recently delivered on it. I'd be amazed (in a good way) to see Nintendo implement the same thing. The Switch needs as many games as Nintendo can get on the platform and expensive dev kits work against that.
 
While everyone is distracted with the spec talk, there is still that rumor that Nintendo might actually allow retail units to be used for development by registering them with a developer account. Maybe that's what Patcher is hinting at?

This would be a game changer if true: while the barrier for console development got vastly lower this gen compared to the last, having to acquire a physical dev unit is still a barrier for a lot of people and it makes it harder to find hires with actual console experience compared with hires with mobile experience. It also makes it harder to include console development in education.

Personally, while I would love for it to happen, it would require Nintendo to either make their system airtight against hacking or have a strategy that allows for that to happen regardless of the risk of hacking.

Where did this rumor come from? I think this is the first I've heard of it.

Would be very cool if true, and actually similar to something I was pondering back in the NX speculation days: If Nintendo could put out a game engine that somehow included a very good amount of functionality coupled with a simple and intuitive interface- similar to how they nailed Mario Maker compared to other level building games- that could go a long way to encourage even kids to start trying to make full games. It would be sorta the way to encourage the next level of creativity compared to something like Minecraft.
 
I think it was "late but not-so-great" which is an incredibly shitty thing to say about a person who recently passed.
If anything that seems like a reason to give more credit to Pacter. An analyst can''t be emotional and give extra credit to someone because they died.
 
I do hope the Switch sells extraordinarily well so that 3rd parties do develop some unique titles like they did for the Wii (this is assuming that the Switch isn't strong enough to get PS4/XB1/PSPRO/Scorpio ports). Stuff like Zack and Wiki on the Wii were great!

Making development from the ground up easier can only help this happen.
 
Depends on which perspective this is coming from. The 3DS is easier to develop for than the PS4, mostly because it's less powerful, so it's not as resource intensive on the development side. Textures and models don't have to be at the same standard on a higher end system, it is 'easier to develop for'.

Is it not quite possible that it's easier to develop for, merely because it's a lower end system, and therefore, games for it are less intensive to produce? If we assume that Pachter is correct with what he's saying.

This reads as flat out wrong. I think whatever source you read this from was getting across that the 3DS was powerful for the target resolution it could support and thus easy to develop for. This is partly why developing for the PS4 is easier than the PS4 pro considering their target resolutions.
 
Something must be missing, Nintendo couldn't get that right.

Well yeah - something is missing - gpu power to actual display those easy ports from PS4 at acceptable frame rates and resolution.

I'm thinking this will have Vita like 3rd party support - Japanise developers + western indies
 
Where did this rumor come from? I think this is the first I've heard of it.

Would be very cool if true, and actually similar to something I was pondering back in the NX speculation days: If Nintendo could put out a game engine that somehow included a very good amount of functionality coupled with a simple and intuitive interface- similar to how they nailed Mario Maker compared to other level building games- that could go a long way to encourage even kids to start trying to make full games. It would be sorta the way to encourage the next level of creativity compared to something like Minecraft.

Yeah, it's the first time I hear it by myself as well. Would you like to link a source, M3d1on?
 
Well yeah - something is missing - gpu power to actual display those easy ports from PS4 at acceptable frame rates and resolution.

I'm thinking this will have Vita like 3rd party support - Japanise developers + western indies

Vita got exclusive COD and Assassin's Creed games as well as some multiplats like Assassin's Creed Chronicle, XCOM, Mortal Kombat, Injustice and Borderlands.

Nintendo would kill for Switch to get that.
 
i feel like michael pachter is great for financial or sales analysis but the right person to tell you if a video game console is easy to develop for or not
That's why the developers told him and he's relayed on. Don't shoot the messenger folk.

I wasn't that interested in the switch on announcement, thinking "that looks cool but I won't get one". I'm getting more and more intrigued into this device as more news come out, I think I'll get one.

It's been too long since I've played a Nintendo IP.
 
It's a joke, no need to jump to defend anything. I'll admit full fault for fucking around instead of having an actual discussion, but you aren't exactly promoting discussion either. Lets just chill out a bit.



Oh? Would you care to elaborate on why it "seems" hard to develop for? Full disclosure, I'm not a game developer so this is a genuine question. Not trying to be sarcastic here.

One of the hardest things about multiplatform game development is nailing the performance and compatibility with multiple platforms. This is exhasperated when you have to work with different sets of architecture and capabilities.

One of the biggest breakthroughs this generation has been that the PS4 and the XB1 are so similar (And, likewise, similiar to the PC Architecture).

In terms of the APIs, generally speaking, the PS4 and XB1 are fairly similar. Obviously they're different in terms of how the APIs are implemented, and there's still a challenge when working on a multiplatform game on those platforms, but, essentially, they support the same feature set and have relatively similar performance.

Nintendo, on the other hand, (at least so far) has not managed to provide the same level of support or feature parity. Their platforms have been revolutionary in some aspects, but down right archaic in others. I would highly doubt that, out of the gate, the switch has a development environment that is as rich, supportive, and feature complete as these two platforms, especially considering that they are built upon 3 generations of improvements. (The OG Xbox is the start of the "modern game console").

While it is likely that popular engines like UE4 and Unity will support Switch out of the gate, Unity, for instance, wasn't _really_ ready for PS4/XB1 support until quite a bit into the generation.

To state that porting to Switch is the easiest out of the two is down right laughable. That's simply not possible. Porting from what? One of the two platforms that are virtually identical when it comes to hardware and have basically the same first party features?

Then, there's the hardware capabilities. Even outside of architecture, the switch is a far less capable platform, which would require different assets, rendering modes and file sizes.

Supporting the handheld mode as well isn't just going to work. That's not how game development works. You don't just (excuse me!) flip a switch and the game just works in a lower setting. This requires additional optimization and performance targets, metrics, and work. It does't come free.

We can also talk about the controllers... but It's not really nessecary. We can assume third party ports will, for the most part, only support the "full/pro" controller experience, as very few games will be playable with only 1 joystick.

I'm not hating on the Switch, I'll probably have one day one. My passion about playing pokemon on a TV can't be contained.

Just need to keep realism in check and not take the words of an "analyst" as gold here. Lets wait and see the games.
 
They're going to need a damn fine selection of first party to get this thing going imo. Because those specs are fuckin awful.
 
I wonder what makes it easier, considering its RAM constrained and you basically need to develop two different games, for handheld and console use.
Can that really be offset by slightly more streamlined / better implemented APIs and tools?
 
Odd to hear Pachter say something positive about Nintendo. For them to truly turn things around, they need it to be the easiest to develop for. Much like the massive changes Sony had to do going into PS4, Nintendo needs to be humble and hungry and make the process of adding software easy and painless.

They never will turn things around with the switch. No matter how easy it is to develop for. Not with hardware that is weaker than the competition arriving 3 years after they came out. And for more money then you can buy either of them. Even IF the switch got a ton of third party support due to this ease of development, those same games would be playable with better visual and/or performance on the competitors machines. And that isn't even including the PRO and Scorpio. So nintendo will be left with a console that people only buy to play nintendo games...but wasn't that all the wii-U was good for and yet it still tanked...there simply isn't enough people out there willing to buy a console just for its first party games.

Even if nintendo grew some common sence, made a system of equal or slightly better spec than the PS4, undercut the PS4 slim in price, and it had every single third party release as the PS4, they still have the battle of mindshare. Can nintendo convince people to make the switch their primary system? To bail out of the ecosystem of the other competing consoles? Do they have the online inferstructure to maintain smooth online gameplay or will it be a bumpy road?

As with the wii-U they have a mid gen launching console with very little to get excited about beyond the prospect of what nintendo consoles have ALWAYS had...it's first party offering. But we already know that isn't enough to turn their fortunes around. History has proven that.

Hopefully at the very least the ease of development will mean those first party games are announced and released thick and fast though. If everything turns into a long waiting game like zelda its going to be even harder to convince people to buy the thing.
 
They never will turn things around with the switch. No matter how easy it is to develop for. Not with hardware that is weaker than the competition arriving 3 years after they came out. And for more money then you can buy either of them. Even IF the switch got a ton of third party support due to this ease of development, those same games would be playable with better visual and/or performance on the competitors machines. And that isn't even including the PRO and Scorpio. So nintendo will be left with a console that people only buy to play nintendo games...but wasn't that all the wii-U was good for and yet it still tanked...there sinple isn't enough people out there willing to buy a console just for its first party games.

Even if nintendo grew some common sence, made a system of equal or slightly better spec than the PS4, undercut the PS4 slim in price, and it had every single third party release as the PS4, they still have the battle of mindshare. Can nintendo convince people to make the switch their primary system? To bail out of the ecosystem of the other competing consoles? Do they have the online inferstructure to maintain smooth online gameplay or will it be a bumpy road?

As with the wii-U they have a mid gen launching console with very little to get excited about beyond the prospect of what nintendo consoles have ALWAYS had...it's first party offering. But we already know that isn't enough to turn their fortunes around. History has proven that.

Hopefully at the very least the ease of development will mean those first party games are announced and released thick and fast though. If everything turns into a long waiting game like zelda its going to be even harder to convince people to buy the thing.

I mean, you make some good points here, but this is identical to what people said about Wii before it came out.
 
They'll need a lot more than ports to get some market share this time around.

Not what this thread is about, though. This thread is about Pachter's comment, not sales projections.
 
Didn't Matt say this too?


My interpretations was that switch wouldn't have a problem porting most games over, and that really it was a matter of publishers deciding if there would actually be a profit in it.
 
He apologized multiple times and was clearly sincere. As he explained, he wasn't a fan of Iwata's business decisions, but noted his mistake in saying that as he person he wasn't so great.

The whole thing, including the apology, is a pretty good window into how Pachter views things. I have no doubts he was sincere , but just because he apologized doesn't mean that people are obligated to change their opinion.
 
This would go in line with all of the posts that have been saying porting XB/PS games to Switch is easy.

I'm extremely skeptical of this. Depends on what games they're referring to being ported. I can see indie-like games being easy to do, but I have a hard time believing porting a game like Battlefield 1, Watch Dogs 2, AAA games and etc would be easy to do given the alleged vast power gap.

I do believe it's easy to develop for, but im not expecting ports of big budget games.
 
I mean, you make some good points here, but this is identical to what people said about Wii before it came out.

The wii had HUGE novelty value that appealed to both the super young, and the super old. Because it was doing something innovative with controls (for better or worse) does the switch have that? Not really.

It seems like an untrathered version of the wii-U to me. But its still a machine with buttons and complexity that few 3 year or 90 year olds will be able to grasp. Thats why the wii was huge....its also why it has some terrible software attatchment rates....because as with all novelty, it wears off.
 
Not what this thread is about, though. This thread is about Pachter's comment, not sales projections.

Everything, in some form or another, comes back to market relevance - something Nintendo struggled with this gen.

Just responding to a comment about ports is all.
 
The wii had HUGE novelty value that appealed to both the super young, and the super old. Because it was doing something innovative with controls (for better or worse) does the switch have that? Not really.

It seems like an untrathered version of the wii-U to me. But its still a machine with buttons and complexity that few 3 year or 90 year olds will be able to grasp. Thats why the wii was huge....its also why it has some terrible software attatchment rates....because as with all novelty, it wears off.

Are you sure about that one?

I also don't think you are realizing how big of a deal an "untethered" version of any console would be especially when Nintendo can combine their development efforts instead of breaking it up between one handheld and one home console. No more wasted efforts on dual development of Super Smash, Mario Kart games, and 3D/2D Mario games. The extra time can be spent on brand new games potentially.

They never will turn things around with the switch. No matter how easy it is to develop for. Not with hardware that is weaker than the competition arriving 3 years after they came out. And for more money then you can buy either of them. Even IF the switch got a ton of third party support due to this ease of development, those same games would be playable with better visual and/or performance on the competitors machines. And that isn't even including the PRO and Scorpio. So nintendo will be left with a console that people only buy to play nintendo games...but wasn't that all the wii-U was good for and yet it still tanked...there simply isn't enough people out there willing to buy a console just for its first party games.

Even if nintendo grew some common sence, made a system of equal or slightly better spec than the PS4, undercut the PS4 slim in price, and it had every single third party release as the PS4, they still have the battle of mindshare. Can nintendo convince people to make the switch their primary system? To bail out of the ecosystem of the other competing consoles? Do they have the online inferstructure to maintain smooth online gameplay or will it be a bumpy road?

As with the wii-U they have a mid gen launching console with very little to get excited about beyond the prospect of what nintendo consoles have ALWAYS had...it's first party offering. But we already know that isn't enough to turn their fortunes around. History has proven that.

Hopefully at the very least the ease of development will mean those first party games are announced and released thick and fast though. If everything turns into a long waiting game like zelda its going to be even harder to convince people to buy the thing.

If Switch receives some of the higher profile ports, I can imagine a segment of the population preferring the versatility of the Switch over the power of the PS4/One family of systems.
 
Did he even mention the Switch in that sentence? Because the quote in the OP just says 'Nintendo'.



Couldn't he just be referencing developer relations, QA requirements, licensing issues, etcetera? How does this directly refer to the Switch exactly?

It doesn't refer to the Switch. He's just talking about Nintendo's reputation as a business partner.
 
PSY・S;226975746 said:
wouldn't this make multi-platform games looks worse on their console...?
Yes.

SGI built the N64 hardware and supplied Nintendo with a "microcode" that let the system push ~100,000 polygons-per-second. The SGI-written one was designed for SGI workstation supercomputers and had a level of accuracy that wasn't needed in videogames, so Nintendo wrote their own microcode which allowed ~500,000 pps.

Nintendo told third parties that the Nintendo microcode was unstable and tricky to work with, so they weren't allowed to try, they should just use the SGI-provided one. It's almost as good.

And people wonder why Superman 64 was a thing.
 
They never will turn things around with the switch. No matter how easy it is to develop for. Not with hardware that is weaker than the competition arriving 3 years after they came out. And for more money then you can buy either of them. Even IF the switch got a ton of third party support due to this ease of development, those same games would be playable with better visual and/or performance on the competitors machines. And that isn't even including the PRO and Scorpio. So nintendo will be left with a console that people only buy to play nintendo games...but wasn't that all the wii-U was good for and yet it still tanked...there simply isn't enough people out there willing to buy a console just for its first party games.

Even if nintendo grew some common sence, made a system of equal or slightly better spec than the PS4, undercut the PS4 slim in price, and it had every single third party release as the PS4, they still have the battle of mindshare. Can nintendo convince people to make the switch their primary system? To bail out of the ecosystem of the other competing consoles? Do they have the online inferstructure to maintain smooth online gameplay or will it be a bumpy road?

As with the wii-U they have a mid gen launching console with very little to get excited about beyond the prospect of what nintendo consoles have ALWAYS had...it's first party offering. But we already know that isn't enough to turn their fortunes around. History has proven that.

Hopefully at the very least the ease of development will mean those first party games are announced and released thick and fast though. If everything turns into a long waiting game like zelda its going to be even harder to convince people to buy the thing.

I think Nintendo is more interested in making a solid seller with an appealing concept than trying to outsell the PS4. Also power doesn't matter, by that logic the Pro should be outselling the base PS4 (it's not).
 
Depends on which perspective this is coming from. The 3DS is easier to develop for than the PS4, mostly because it's less powerful, so it's not as resource intensive on the development side. Textures and models don't have to be at the same standard on a higher end system, it is 'easier to develop for'.

Is it not quite possible that it's easier to develop for, merely because it's a lower end system, and therefore, games for it are less intensive to produce? If we assume that Pachter is correct with what he's saying.

This. We'll see when it comes out.

This would go in line with all of the posts that have been saying porting XB/PS games to Switch is easy.

Which I'm skeptical of, even just because of RAM, not to mention the rest of the spec differences. Was the PS3 easy to port to even beyond third party dev issues with Cell being very unlike the 360's CPU? Many devs hinted that PS3's split RAM also made it harder to port games that were first developed on 360 with it's larger single pool, which is why later in the gen they went the opposite direction and went PS3->360 with multiplats. And in that case they even both had the same overall amount of RAM, the Switch is probably going to have less than both other systems third parties are making their multiplats for. If the Switch has less RAM then both PS4 and XBone it will probably not be so "trivial" to port those games.

It might still be relatively easy to develop for though.
 
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