• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Microsoft—now trying to get its $75 billion deal for Activision approved—has taken a friendly role with regulators. (WSJ)

CatLady

Plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
This is incorrect. Under the terms of the deal, Bungie will continue to be multiplatform for the foreseeable future. But that’s not important.

Sony has permanent marketing or branding rights for anything they make. Their games are usually multimillion seller GaaS games, so Sony will make billions in revenue from sales of expansion, retail games, MTX etc. plus Bungie expertise in ensuring the success of Sony’s new, major push for live service games.

They don’t need to get exclusivity for Bungie’s future games. It’s a very solid investment either way.
True, but additionally as we've been told repeatedly by the Sony Crowd, Bethesda games will be multiplat because Xbox can't afford to leave that money on the table. Obviously, Bungie games will all be multiplat because Sony can't afford to leave that money on the table. :pie_roffles: :pie_roffles:
 
I'm just explaining a fact: SIE bought 100% of Bungie. They completely own Bungie, so can do whatever they want with it.
Of course Sony could do anything technically speaking. Sony could quit the gaming business altogether, and start making sombreros instead if they really wanted to. Context matters, and you're ignoring a lot of it to make your argument.
All these things are public, I'm not guessing them.
These things are not public, and you are "guessing them". Unless you care to post a copy of the share purchase agreement in your reply, don't even bother arguing this point. No goalposts will be moved, no sidestepping will be allowed. Provide a copy of the share purchase agreement, or you're wrong. It really is that simple.
Sony bought 100% of the company, meaning Sony has complete control and authority over Bungie, about their future games and where they will be released. Bungie are now simple Sony employees, workers from another Sony subsidiary company, and like any employee in any company, your boss doesn't have to 'convince' you. If you don't do whatever your boss tells you to do, you get fired. And SIE/Jim Ryan is now the owner and boss of Bungie.

Activision was only the publisher of Bungie, so had to convince them. Sony now acquired the totality of Bungie.
It's good that you point this out, and place such emphasis on it. It really does a good job of highlighting the hypocrisy you display here on a regular basis. It's important to note that in this deal, Sony is going to great lengths, and much expense in order to retain the talent at Bungie. Again, you're missing the context completely. In your example, if the workers at Bungie didn't do what Ryan told them, they'd simply be fired. Of course you didn't mention how that scenario plays out beyond that. Once fired those employees would immediately be pursued by any and every game developer that had an opening. How long those fired employees remained unemployed would most likely depend entirely on how long a vacation they wanted to take before going to work at some other studio. Meanwhile Sony would be stuck having none of the talent that they just paid billions to obtain. The IP that they acquired in Destiny would immediately begin to die on the vine, as that's how live service games work.
Bungie said their future games will be full multiplatform, meaning they didn't even have signed a timed exclusive with anyone else. So aren't legally tied to anything with other platforms so Sony and Bungie can do whatever they want for future projects. Specifically they will continue supporting Destiny 2, will bring it to Switch via cloud and plan to release at least one new IP before 2025.

Bungie plans to continue publishing multiplatform games using their publishing label and to bring their IPs to movies, tv shows and so on. It aligns well with SIE's and Sony's known plans, so jim Ryan decided to help them achieve these projects under the SIE umbrella, securing their support and getting money from Bungie's results. Bungie is super successful and doesn't make sense to tell them how they have to make their games, so Sony will give them creative freedom as they give creative freedom to their other teams.

Bungie created the top tier IPs Halo and Destiny (so future new IPs may be top tier too), two of the most successful and influential in console FPS and console MP, and in tthe case of Destiny, it was a game changing GaaS hit. Sony needed to improve in these areas, and Bungie will help Sony on these areas directly, plus also helping the PS Studios to improve there specially on GaaS with their knowledge, expertise, data and tools. Jim Ryan also said before buying Bungie that wanted to reach players beyond their own console. And in that idea I think (this part is a personal guess) would fit very well for Sony to have publishers like Bungie under SIE but as a separate publisher instead of putting them under PS Studios: Sony would be able tto sell games in other console but keeping PS Studios games and brand console exclusive. For that same reason I think Sony may buy another 3rd party multiplatform publisher and follow the same strategy: to put them under SIE but not under PS Studios but instead under their own publishing label and continuing as multiplattform (but avoiding to give ccnsole exclusives to the competition).
This is your take as to the reasons for the acquisition, and in my opinion... a good one.

Most people tend to be biased one way or another, and at times it can be hard not to wander into fanboy territory. Of course there's a lot of toxicity that resides in that territory, which can ultimately negatively affect a forum such as this one. I imagine it takes a monumental effort by the mods here to allow open discussion, while also trying to minimize the amount of toxicity that often comes along with it. Due to the sheer amount of posts and users, it's almost impossible to keep track of every bad faith actor. I point this out not to personally offend or insult you, but because at this point... I feel it's obvious that you are one of those bad faith actors.

I say this because I see you posting completely opposing narratives from thread to thread. You go to great lengths in multiple posts to explain just how illegal it would be if MS didn't make not just the contractually obligated future titles, but ALL future CoD titles available on all platforms, especially Playstation. Due to what MS stated was their intentions. Of course you're also in this thread speaking with such certainty that none of those same "laws" apply to Sony. Simply explaining that Sony owns Bungie so Sony can do whatever they want.

You take hypocrisy to a whole different level my guy.
 

3liteDragon

Gold Member
With the whole “Sony owns 100% of Bungie” thing, yea I get that but I’m pretty sure it’s in writing & both parties agreed that Bungie would remain an independent studio & would keep it’s self-publishing status after the acquisition. That’s the only thing Sony can’t do with them despite fully owning them, they both agreed to it.
 

Lognor

Member
So where is this proof that Bungie demanded being a publisher and to continue making multiplatform games?

I went through all the press releases and didn’t find anything claiming that.

So again where’s your proof or are you just making it up?



Anyways if you truly do have some inside information you really need to get it vetted.
So let's rephrase this. What do you believe happened? That Sony made the offer and that offer included that Bungie could stay multiplatform? Why would you think that when none of Sony's other acquisitions have remained multiplatform? When Sony has acquired someone they have forced them to only make games for Playstation. This time it was different. So it's unlikely that it was at Sony's request. Why would you think it was?
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
So let's rephrase this. What do you believe happened? That Sony made the offer and that offer included that Bungie could stay multiplatform? Why would you think that when none of Sony's other acquisitions have remained multiplatform? When Sony has acquired someone they have forced them to only make games for Playstation. This time it was different. So it's unlikely that it was at Sony's request. Why would you think it was?

Sony has been making their games multiplatform so it isn’t strange that they continue in that direction. If Sony was still making games exclusive to PlayStation then I would agree with you. Most likely they obtained Bungie to continue in their direction of offering games to a wider audience. Especially since they want to rebuild their portfolio of Live Service games ever since they sold Sony Online Entertainment.

 
Last edited:

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
You ignore my succinct points because you have no way to spin them so you start talking about...MLB? Hold that L.



How is that homophobic when I have no way of knowing your gender? That aside, I'd like to see a rational reply to my counterargument. If you have one, that is.
Sony/Bungie will still support the "current" established Destiny 2 that has millions on formats besides PS and has already planned future content.
Sony owns Bungie.
Sony doesn't put its games on Xbox.
 

CatLady

Plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
With the whole “Sony owns 100% of Bungie” thing, yea I get that but I’m pretty sure it’s in writing & both parties agreed that Bungie would remain an independent studio & would keep it’s self-publishing status after the acquisition. That’s the only thing Sony can’t do with them despite fully owning them, they both agreed to it.
Agree with this 100%.

Both companies have stated this emphatically which tends to also make me think that was the only way Bungie agreed to the deal. Bungie has had two previous owners that they bought their independence out of and I highly doubt they would have signed with a third unless it was under the conditions Bungie described for this deal.

I think it's similar to Minecraft/Xbox acquisition. The only way Notch would sell was if Xbox continued to offer Minecraft on every platform. To this day it's on every platform.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Agree with this 100%.

Both companies have stated this emphatically which tends to also make me think that was the only way Bungie agreed to the deal. Bungie has had two previous owners that they bought their independence out of and I highly doubt they would have signed with a third unless it was under the conditions Bungie described for this deal.

I think it's similar to Minecraft/Xbox acquisition. The only way Notch would sell was if Xbox continued to offer Minecraft on every platform. To this day it's on every platform.

Is the PS5 getting that next gen update?
 

octiny

Member
Sony/Bungie will still support the "current" established Destiny 2 that has millions on formats besides PS and has already planned future content.
Sony owns Bungie.
Sony doesn't put its games on Xbox.
no way do I think Destiny 3 or other Sony owned Bungie stuff is going to be multiplatform.
Sony aint having it and Sony is the boss.

You're right, Sony is boss.

"The first thing to say unequivocally is that Bungie will stay an independent, multiplatform studio and publisher." "Pete [Parsons, Bungie CEO] and I have spoken about many things over recent months, and this was one of the first, and actually easiest and most straightforward, conclusions we reached together."

Do you know who wrote that? 🧐



I get it, it's hard for you to cope w/ the fact that Bungie wouldn't have agreed to the deal without those stipulations in place, but you can't argue facts.

This is almost as bad as your "quality" argument in the other thread 🥱
 

yurinka

Member
Of course Sony could do anything technically speaking. Sony could quit the gaming business altogether, and start making sombreros instead if they really wanted to.
Yes.
Context matters, and you're ignoring a lot of it to make your argument.
Yes. The context is that a company bought 100% of other company, which means has total control over it.

These things are not public, and you are "guessing them". Unless you care to post a copy of the share purchase agreement in your reply, don't even bother arguing this point. No goalposts will be moved, no sidestepping will be allowed. Provide a copy of the share purchase agreement, or you're wrong. It really is that simple.
Bullshit. I'm not guessing them, they are public: my source is the info is from the press release and interview where they announced the acquisition, plus from the Bungie blog where they explain their strategy (for the acquisition they did an update and specific Q&A after the acquisition) and Sony and SIE strategy is mentioned publicly in their IR page in multiple presentations and reports for investors, and interviews like the one Jim Ryan made for UK before the acquisition where he stated that wanted to appeal players who are outside PlayStation.

It's good that you point this out, and place such emphasis on it. It really does a good job of highlighting the hypocrisy you display here on a regular basis. It's important to note that in this deal, Sony is going to great lengths, and much expense in order to retain the talent at Bungie. Again, you're missing the context completely. In your example, if the workers at Bungie didn't do what Ryan told them, they'd simply be fired. Of course you didn't mention how that scenario plays out beyond that. Once fired those employees would immediately be pursued by any and every game developer that had an opening. How long those fired employees remained unemployed would most likely depend entirely on how long a vacation they wanted to take before going to work at some other studio. Meanwhile Sony would be stuck having none of the talent that they just paid billions to obtain. The IP that they acquired in Destiny would immediately begin to die on the vine, as that's how live service games work.
Bullshit. It isn't hypocrisy, it's common sense and how companies work: if you are told to do something by your boss and ignore it doing something that goes against the interests of the company you would get fired. We saw that after the acquisition they didn't change their plans, Sony and Bungie continue with the same ones they had before the acquisition.

It's obvious that -as they mentioned in the sources I mentioned, basically the interview and announcement posts on their respective blogs- they saw each other plans and saw that they liked it and were complementary and there were different synergies possible in the acquisition, so they decided to make the acquisition. SIE is ok with them being full multiplatform and expanding to make movies or tv shows and to continue working in the projects they have (Destiny 2 and the new IPs).

There is absolutely nothing that points out to think Bungie could sign exclusivities with MS and Nintendo, when in fact they agreed with Sony to continue full multiplatform and to don't give exclusivity even to PS. If something, Bungie could make a game exclusive to mobile phones (let's call it Destiny Mobile), something is ok for SIE since it matches their plans to bring their PS IPs to mobile.

Regarding firing people or people leaving the studio, often when a gaming studio gets acquired (I did work in one that was acquired twice) key staff of the acquired studo signs in the acquisition deal that will remain there for at least a certain amount of time (typically between 2 and 5 years). But well, they can also get fired. They are also get some retention/seniority salary bonuses for keeping in the company for X amount of years. In this particular case they announced that 1.2B of the 3.6B are for these purposes.

The context here also is that Bungie employees were also the majority shareholders before the acquisition (now SIE owns 100% of the shares), meaning that if they sold to Sony is because they looked forward to the shared plans for the fuure. And well, in a personal Bungie worker level, if they want to get the totality of this payment they have to fulfill the retention bonus conditions.

Big companies also often require you to sign in your personal contract a clause that if you leave the company, during X years (tyipically a couple) you can't work for direct competition and if you do it you must pay them a big fine. But often people goes to sign with direct competition and never happens, or this time is spent on setting up a new game studio or taking some long vacations, so basically never is a big issue.

This is your take as to the reasons for the acquisition, and in my opinion... a good one.

Most people tend to be biased one way or another, and at times it can be hard not to wander into fanboy territory. Of course there's a lot of toxicity that resides in that territory, which can ultimately negatively affect a forum such as this one. I imagine it takes a monumental effort by the mods here to allow open discussion, while also trying to minimize the amount of toxicity that often comes along with it. Due to the sheer amount of posts and users, it's almost impossible to keep track of every bad faith actor. I point this out not to personally offend or insult you, but because at this point... I feel it's obvious that you are one of those bad faith actors.

I say this because I see you posting completely opposing narratives from thread to thread. You go to great lengths in multiple posts to explain just how illegal it would be if MS didn't make not just the contractually obligated future titles, but ALL future CoD titles available on all platforms, especially Playstation. Due to what MS stated was their intentions. Of course you're also in this thread speaking with such certainty that none of those same "laws" apply to Sony. Simply explaining that Sony owns Bungie so Sony can do whatever they want.

You take hypocrisy to a whole different level my guy.

Regarding Activision and MS, I often shown their related public statements available: in their SEC filing (which is a legal document for regulators and investors, we don't have a similar one from Sony & Bungie), what the MS president says on a tv interview, what Phil Spencer said in Twitter. Same goes what Sony and Bungie, I highlighted what they said. I often even post direct links and quotes on both Activision and Bungie case. It isn't a different narrative, I just explain/quote what these companies said and did.

You call me "bad faith actor", "fanboy", "hipocrite", "toxic" for highlighting public facts/quotes while not being able to prove me wrong with any fact/quote/source in the points I mentioned and isn't a "point this out not to personally offend or insult you"? Are you sure I'm the toxic one here?

If you don't like what they say or for some reason butthurts you it's your issue, not mine.

With the whole “Sony owns 100% of Bungie” thing, yea I get that but I’m pretty sure it’s in writing & both parties agreed that Bungie would remain an independent studio & would keep it’s self-publishing status after the acquisition. That’s the only thing Sony can’t do with them despite fully owning them, they both agreed to it.
Yes, it's true that SIE owns 100% of the Bungie stocks. It's also a fact that they agreed that Bungie will remain as a different publishing, separated from PS Studios but inside/under SIE. And it's also a fact that they agreed and that both Bungie and Jim Ryan said that current and future Bungie games will continue being multiplatform including rival consoles.

It's also a fact that before the acquisition, Bungie already had that full multiplatform strategy, and that Phil Ryan said that they wanted to expand to reach players who are outside PlayStation. Before the acquisitions we thought he only was talking about the late PC ports, the bringing their PlayStation IPs to mobile or movies, or via bringing their cloud gaming and remote play to PC or mobile, but with Bungie we saw he also meant to buy 3rd party multiplatform publishers and to keep them multiplatform -including rival consoles- under SIE (something MS seems also doing).

Who knows if Jim Ryan may change his mind in the future, which is possible depending on how the market evolves. But as for now, I'd bet that minimum this generation all current and future Bungie games and gameplay DLCs will continue full multiplatform. I think that if they make some exclusive, would be to give only Sony the inclusion of Bungie games on console bundles, game subscriptions or making some PS exclusive beta or demo.
 
Last edited:

Schmick

Member
You're right, Sony is boss.

"The first thing to say unequivocally is that Bungie will stay an independent, multiplatform studio and publisher." "Pete [Parsons, Bungie CEO] and I have spoken about many things over recent months, and this was one of the first, and actually easiest and most straightforward, conclusions we reached together."

Do you know who wrote that? 🧐



I get it, it's hard for you to cope w/ the fact that Bungie wouldn't have agreed to the deal without those stipulations in place, but you can't argue facts.

This is almost as bad as your "quality" argument in the other thread 🥱
Hang on let me get this straight

Independent as in... make their own decisions.

Multi-platform as in... release games on more than one platform (some might argue PS5 and PC is multi-platform but then why would an independent developer choose to limit themselves to just two platforms when historically they have full on been... multi-platform).

Publisher as in... publish their own games.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Hang on let me get this straight

Independent as in... make their own decisions.

Multi-platform as in... release games on more than one platform (some might argue PS5 and PC is multi-platform but then why would an independent developer choose to limit themselves to just two platforms when historically they have full on been... multi-platform).

Publisher as in... publish their own games.

Not sure if I believe they can sign exclusive deals with the competition. I guess I truly don’t believe they are 100% independent in that sense.
 

yurinka

Member
Hang on let me get this straight

Independent as in... make their own decisions.

Multi-platform as in... release games on more than one platform (some might argue PS5 and PC is multi-platform but then why would an independent developer choose to limit themselves to just two platforms when historically they have full on been... multi-platform).

Publisher as in... publish their own games.
Yes, Sony said will give them creative freedom (as they do witth their other teams) and that Bungie will continue selfpublishing their games. Even if owned by SIE, Bungie won't publish using PS Studios as publishing label. They will continue publishing with the Bungie label in multiple platforms which according to Jim Ryan and Bungie will include rival consoles.

But since they are a SIE studio I highly doubt Jim Ryan would allow them to sign any exclusivity deal wih MS or Nintendo. I assume one of the main reasons of why Sony bought them is to avoid that.
 
Last edited:

Schmick

Member
Not sure if I believe they can sign exclusive deals with the competition. I guess I truly don’t believe they are 100% independent in that sense.
You have a point there there no way that will happen, however what is still crazy is we still have people here stating that Bungie will not release a game on a console other than PlayStation despite what Pete Parson has been reported to say.
 

CatLady

Plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
You have a point there there no way that will happen, however what is still crazy is we still have people here stating that Bungie will not release a game on a console other than PlayStation despite what Pete Parson has been reported to say.

Is there anyone here actually suggesting that Bungie could sign an exclusive agreement timed or otherwise with a PlayStation competitor? No way in hell that ever happens.

Sony can't make Bungie games exclusive to PS, but I'm quite sure Bungie can't make their games exclusive to any other platform either.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
Oh I thought it was getting updated for the Series. My mistake.

No it "accidentally" did get updated but the update then got revoked.

There has to be some licensing fuckery involved there, otherwise it doesn't make sense why they "accidentally" pushed the update then revoked it.

You have a point there there no way that will happen, however what is still crazy is we still have people here stating that Bungie will not release a game on a console other than PlayStation despite what Pete Parson has been reported to say.

Could very well be that once the deal closes, their tone changes but yeah, the current PR from Bungie very clearly reads like they'll continue to be a multi-platform and multi-console publisher.

Sony probably doesn't mind as they'll be happy counting double the money they get from Bungie products.
 
Last edited:

Lognor

Member
Sony has been making their games multiplatform so it isn’t strange that they continue in that direction. If Sony was still making games exclusive to PlayStation then I would agree with you. Most likely they obtained Bungie to continue in their direction of offering games to a wider audience. Especially since they want to rebuild their portfolio of Live Service games ever since they sold Sony Online Entertainment.

Sony has been making games multiplatform? What are you talking about? Which games are multiplatform? I can't think of one. Bungie is completely different from what Sony has ever done. It speaks volumes.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
You have a point there there no way that will happen, however what is still crazy is we still have people here stating that Bungie will not release a game on a console other than PlayStation despite what Pete Parson has been reported to say.

Well if we are talking about live service games with MTX I don’t see how it’s a bad business decision to release it on as many platforms as possible. I honestly believe Bungie was bought to help with that area. I guess what Sony wants is to own the next Fortnite if you know what I mean.

When it comes to this deal I don’t believe Sony would have made it if they didn’t get anything out of it. For them owning the IPs could be a big deal. Also any experience that Bungie has with live service games can help their other developers.

Maybe I’ve been reading to much into the press release and it could be true that Sony is just desperate and made a horrible deal. But I have my doubts on that.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Sony has been making games multiplatform? What are you talking about? Which games are multiplatform? I can't think of one. Bungie is completely different from what Sony has ever done. It speaks volumes.

What you never saw Sony games release on PC? I consider a PlayStation plus a PC release to be multiplatform. Not really taking into consideration MLB The Show because Sony had to make it multiplatform to maintain the license.
 

Lognor

Member
What you never saw Sony games release on PC? I consider a PlayStation plus a PC release to be multiplatform. Not really taking into consideration MLB The Show because Sony had to make it multiplatform to maintain the license.
No. Which games? The show isn't a good example because of the situation. Sony was going to lose the mlb license if they didn't agree to go multiplatform. That's the same situation here with bungie. Sony was going to lose out on the bungie acquisition if they didn't agree to allow bungie to remain multiplatform.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
No. Which games? The show isn't a good example because of the situation. Sony was going to lose the mlb license if they didn't agree to go multiplatform. That's the same situation here with bungie. Sony was going to lose out on the bungie acquisition if they didn't agree to allow bungie to remain multiplatform.

You’re not aware of God of War, Days Gone and Horizon Zero Dawn?

I already accepted that Sony changed their stance on their 1st party games. It’s time you accept it as well.

Edit: I almost forgot about the Legacy of Thieves collection.
 
Last edited:

Lognor

Member
You’re not aware of God of War, Days Gone and Horizon Zero Dawn?

I already accepted that Sony changed their stance on their 1st party games. It’s time you accept it as well.

Edit: I almost forgot about the Legacy of Thieves collection.
So those games are also coming to xbox then? If you're comparing those games to bungie's stance going forward then we'll see those other games on Xbox soon, right?
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
So those games are also coming to xbox then? If you're comparing those games to bungie's stance going forward then we'll see those other games on Xbox soon, right?

Bungie isn’t PlayStation Studios though. No idea why your trying to say that Sony isn’t more open to multiplatform development than before. Honestly this Bungie acquisition reminds me of when they had SOE. Seems like they really want to make as much as they can with Live Service Games which is something they talked about over the years.
 

Lognor

Member
Bungie isn’t PlayStation Studios though. No idea why your trying to say that Sony isn’t more open to multiplatform development than before. Honestly this Bungie acquisition reminds me of when they had SOE. Seems like they really want to make as much as they can with Live Service Games which is something they talked about over the years.
If you're correct in that bungie is not part of PlayStation studios you have to ask the question why that is. Is it Sony that wanted them to remain separate or did bungie want that? It sounds like the latter in order for them to remain multiplatform.

You cannot compare what bungie will be doing going forward to the show, gow, hzd, etc. This is completely new. Bungie wanted to remain multiplatform. They got what they wanted.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
If you're correct in that bungie is not part of PlayStation studios you have to ask the question why that is. Is it Sony that wanted them to remain separate or did bungie want that? It sounds like the latter in order for them to remain multiplatform.

You cannot compare what bungie will be doing going forward to the show, gow, hzd, etc. This is completely new. Bungie wanted to remain multiplatform. They got what they wanted.

Well in the press release they did talk about Live Service Games and since Sony was opening up to multiplatform titles they probably saw the benefit for allowing Bungie to make titles on multiple platforms. It certainly does make sense if you want to focus on Live Service games. Seems like Sony also got what they wanted with this deal.
 
Last edited:

Lognor

Member
Well in the press release they did talk about Live Service Games and since Sony was opening up to multiplatform titles they probably saw the benefit for allowing Bungie to make titles on multiple platforms. It certainly does make sense if you want to focus on Live Service games. Seems like Sony also got what they wanted with this deal.
Well sure since they closed on the deal, but I'm guessing that was not part of sony's initial offer. Sony is working on at least one other live service game and it's unlikely that will be on Xbox. And if that is the case it becomes pretty clear how things went with bungie.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Well sure since they closed on the deal, but I'm guessing that was not part of sony's initial offer. Sony is working on at least one other live service game and it's unlikely that will be on Xbox. And if that is the case it becomes pretty clear how things went with bungie.

I mean you are talking about Destiny here which is a big live service game. Doesn’t make sense for Sony to eliminate that revenue from all those platforms. Anyways if Sony wanted to have a publisher that focuses on live service games Bungie would be it. Doesn’t mean they can’t have the other side of the business that mainly focuses on games that Sony is known for.

As I stated earlier Sony become more open to other platforms did change the way they do business.
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
That’s true. Bungie is part of PlayStation but not part of PlayStation Studios. That’s what I got from the press release.
Yes, it sets the path to more flexibility as far as publishing while also providing the advantage of striking deals internally. Seperate policies and governance.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Yes, it sets the path to more flexibility as far as publishing while also providing the advantage of striking deals internally. Seperate policies and governance.

Pretty much but despite Bungies independence PlayStation will have top priorities when it comes to marketing and exclusive content if it happens. Like for example I don’t expect any Bungie game to be revealed at an Xbox conference. There’s probably a limit to what they can do.
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
Pretty much but despite Bungies independence PlayStation will have top priorities when it comes to marketing and exclusive content if it happens. Like for example I don’t expect any Bungie game to be revealed at an Xbox conference. There’s probably a limit to what they can do.
Sony with Bungie and conversely Xbox with Bathesda/AB will definitely pick and choose what advantages them and their brand.

Fully expect what you highlight being one of the approaches. Beyond that, some exclusivity, timed exclusivity, etc. etc.
 

Javthusiast

Gold Member
Tired of how long these deals take. Get that shit over with quick governments of the world and give me my fucking content sooner.
Do You Understand Paramount Network GIF by Yellowstone
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Sony with Bungie and conversely Xbox with Bathesda/AB will definitely pick and choose what advantages them and their brand.

Fully expect what you highlight being one of the approaches. Beyond that, some exclusivity, timed exclusivity, etc. etc.

Makes sense. What I’m struggling with is that Bungie cares about being multiplatform when they have the financial backing of Sony. Seems like it’s Sony that would benefit the most from this since Bungie is getting paid by them regardless of how many platforms their games release on.
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
Makes sense. What I’m struggling with is that Bungie cares about being multiplatform when they have the financial backing of Sony. Seems like it’s Sony that would benefit the most from this since Bungie is getting paid by them regardless of how many platforms their games release on.
It's all PR, Bungie will do whatever the mothership requires of them
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
It's all PR, Bungie will do whatever the mothership requires of them

Maybe I haven’t read anything about Zenimax downsizing their studios because they decided to cut PlayStation out. It could be the same here but funny enough they are talking about hiring more people with the funding they get from Sony.

Edit: Just making sure I read it right

With Sony’s support, the most immediate change you will see is an acceleration in hiring talent across the entire studio to support our ambitious vision. If this speaks to you, and you want to help us put a dent in the universe, we are hiring across all disciplines for Destiny 2 and for all new worlds beyond.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Gold Member
Maybe I haven’t read anything about Zenimax downsizing their studios because they decided to cut PlayStation out. It could be the same here but funny enough they are talking about hiring more people with the funding they get from Sony.

Edit: Just making sure I read it right
I reckon as part of the purchase Sony already approached them with details to make some additional game. Sony didn't buy Bungie just to get Destiny 2 and sit on it, they want the studio to create new IP's and leverage off their proven GaaS experience.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
I reckon as part of the purchase Sony already approached them with details to make some additional game. Sony didn't buy Bungie just to get Destiny 2 and sit on it, they want the studio to create new IP's and leverage off their proven GaaS experience.

It does make sense and I guess Bungie wanted Sonys financial backing so they don’t have to rely on publishers like Activision. It would also allow them to expand their studio even further. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony is getting something extra out of the deal.
 

phil_t98

Gold Member
It's all PR, Bungie will do whatever the mothership requires of them


there will be contracts signed about being Multiplatform , if bungie want it to be then it will have to be. what nobody knows is if the contracts have a date where the Multiplatform bit ends.
 
Yes. The context is that a company bought 100% of other company, which means has total control over it.
Yes. As outlined in the share purchase agreement that both companies sign at the time of purchase.
Bullshit. I'm not guessing them, they are public: my source is the info is from the press release and interview where they announced the acquisition, plus from the Bungie blog where they explain their strategy (for the acquisition they did an update and specific Q&A after the acquisition) and Sony and SIE strategy is mentioned publicly in their IR page in multiple presentations and reports for investors, and interviews like the one Jim Ryan made for UK before the acquisition where he stated that wanted to appeal players who are outside PlayStation.
No. You can stick your bullshit where the sun don't shine for all I care. I don't want press releases, blog posts, or interviews. I SAID POST THE CONTRACT OR A LINK TO IT. If you can't, then you're guessing. Look, this isn't that hard. Provide the requested proof or stfu about it.
Bullshit. It isn't hypocrisy, it's common sense and how companies work: if you are told to do something by your boss and ignore it doing something that goes against the interests of the company you would get fired. We saw that after the acquisition they didn't change their plans, Sony and Bungie continue with the same ones they had before the acquisition.
It's hypocritical due to your post history. I don't even have to debate your point regarding how companies work. You've laid out how companies work here in this thread in order to claim that Ryan can make Bungie employees do whatever he pleases, and work on whatever game he wants. Of course in other threads as well as here to a lesser extent, you claim the exact opposite for MS regarding Activision, and I'm not even talking about the contracts from before the acquisition that MS will honor either.
There is absolutely nothing that points out to think Bungie could sign exclusivities with MS and Nintendo, when in fact they agreed with Sony to continue full multiplatform and to don't give exclusivity even to PS. If something, Bungie could make a game exclusive to mobile phones (let's call it Destiny Mobile), something is ok for SIE since it matches their plans to bring their PS IPs to mobile.
As we've already established. You have no idea what Bungie can or can't do because as we've already covered previously. You haven't seen any legal purchase agreement contract. What info we do have actually suggests the opposite of what you believe though. Even your precious "press release" clearly states that Bungie is free to release it's games where it sees fit, as it wants it's games played by people anywhere. While you think that somehow can only result in Playstation recieving some sort of small exclusive deal. It could technically be any platform holder. Furthermore, while you curiously failed to mention it. Bungie will not simply be a subsidiary "just like their other studios", and it's actually not as simple as "And SIE/Jim Ryan is now the owner and boss of Bungie." either. The only FACT the we know without doubt is that "Bungie will be an independent subsidiary of SIE and run by its board of directors chaired by Pete Parsons and Bungie’s current management team."

The context here also is that Bungie employees were also the majority shareholders before the acquisition (now SIE owns 100% of the shares), meaning that if they sold to Sony is because they looked forward to the shared plans for the fuure. And well, in a personal Bungie worker level, if they want to get the totality of this payment they have to fulfill the retention bonus conditions.
Of course. That was literally one of my points. You seem to be on the side of 'if the employees want those bonuses, they can't leave the company, so they'd better do what Ryan says.' While I'm saying 'Why would Sony offer such large sums of money to retain employees, if they plan on firing them if they don't make the games Ryan wants.' Sony obviously values Bungies talent, and is willing to fork over significant sums of money to incentivize them to stay. Again, even according to your precious "Press Release", they explicitly state that their main interest was to gain Bungie's expertise.
Big companies also often require you to sign in your personal contract a clause that if you leave the company, during X years (tyipically a couple) you can't work for direct competition and if you do it you must pay them a big fine. But often people goes to sign with direct competition and never happens, or this time is spent on setting up a new game studio or taking some long vacations, so basically never is a big issue.
Yeah, pretty sure most people are familiar with non-competitive clauses, and what they are. Of course there's no "big fine". At most the former employer would sue you in civil court. In most places, non-compete agreements are almost impossible to enforce. In some states, they're even banned outright.

Regarding Activision and MS, I often shown their related public statements available: in their SEC filing (which is a legal document for regulators and investors, we don't have a similar one from Sony & Bungie), what the MS president says on a tv interview, what Phil Spencer said in Twitter. Same goes what Sony and Bungie, I highlighted what they said. I often even post direct links and quotes on both Activision and Bungie case. It isn't a different narrative, I just explain/quote what these companies said and did.
Regarding MS and Activision. I'm not sure what you have or haven't shown, but I've seen you claim on more than one occasion that... MS is legally bound to release future CoD games on Playstation based on their "SEC filings, interviews, and twitter posts". I'd also like to point out that your quip of "we don't have a similar one from Sony & Bungie" kind of puts a hole in your earlier argument of "bullshit, it's public" spiel.
You call me "bad faith actor", "fanboy", "hipocrite", "toxic" for highlighting public facts/quotes while not being able to prove me wrong with any fact/quote/source in the points I mentioned and isn't a "point this out not to personally offend or insult you"? Are you sure I'm the toxic one here?

If you don't like what they say or for some reason butthurts you it's your issue, not mine.
I believe you act in bad faith not for highlighting public quotes, but due to your interpretation of not just public quotes, but by what I can figure is your imagination. You make absolutely baseless claims, and push a narrative of Sony being the only one capable of insisting on conditions, and having leverage. The burden of proof isn't solely on me here either. I don't have to actually prove anything because I'm not the one here making hard claims. You are, and you're making them with no source at that. You're the one who needs to produce a copy/link of contract Sony and Bungie signed when they made the deal. And despite being asked twice now, has still failed to do so. Toxic would be making baseless claims that are at best your opinion, and passing them off as fact. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're posting habits are a bit toxic.

I have no issues with nor get butthurt about anything they say. What I do have an issue with is you pretending people said things they didn't, pretending your subjective opinion is fact, and continuing to argue something is public, but for "reasons" is unable to produce it. Don't really have an issue with your lowkey fanboy behavior. It's annoying, and at times makes me wonder what would cause such behavior. But it's often funny enough that it at least provides some level of entertainment.
 

Lognor

Member
I mean you are talking about Destiny here which is a big live service game. Doesn’t make sense for Sony to eliminate that revenue from all those platforms. Anyways if Sony wanted to have a publisher that focuses on live service games Bungie would be it. Doesn’t mean they can’t have the other side of the business that mainly focuses on games that Sony is known for.

As I stated earlier Sony become more open to other platforms did change the way they do business.
Sony became more open to pc, that's it. Not other platforms (plural). If they were open to other platforms, where are the Switch games? Xbox games? Stadia? Etc? So no, they are not open to more platformS.

And I'll ask again, if Sony wants live service games on more platforms then can we expect the other live service games Sony releases outside of bungie to release on Xbox? Of course not! What they're doing with bungie is completely different. To assume bungie didn't have a say in that is naive.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Sony became more open to pc, that's it. Not other platforms (plural). If they were open to other platforms, where are the Switch games? Xbox games? Stadia? Etc? So no, they are not open to more platformS.

And I'll ask again, if Sony wants live service games on more platforms then can we expect the other live service games Sony releases outside of bungie to release on Xbox? Of course not! What they're doing with bungie is completely different. To assume bungie didn't have a say in that is naive.

Bringing PS games to PC makes the games multiplatform. PlayStation and PC are two different platforms. Not one. Thus, plural, not singular.

Xbox and Switch do not have to be included for that to be true.
 
Last edited:

phil_t98

Gold Member
Bring PS games to PC makes the games multiplatform. PlayStation and PC are two different platforms. Not one. Thus, plural, not singular.


well that's what people been saying here for ages when games are on xbox and pc but when its playstation and pc they seem to think its different. just look at all the past posts on exclusives when they were on xbox
 

Lognor

Member
Bringing PS games to PC makes the games multiplatform. PlayStation and PC are two different platforms. Not one. Thus, plural, not singular.

Xbox and Switch do not have to be included for that to be true.
But Xbox is included in future Bungie games. That has been my point all along. Bungie wanted to stay multiplatform. Sony agreed to get the deal done. Simple as that. It was not Sony's idea to keep Bungie developing games for Xbox.
 

Topher

Gold Member
But Xbox is included in future Bungie games. That has been my point all along. Bungie wanted to stay multiplatform. Sony agreed to get the deal done. Simple as that. It was not Sony's idea to keep Bungie developing games for Xbox.

That's fine, but you were talking about games "outside of bungie".

well that's what people been saying here for ages when games are on xbox and pc but when its playstation and pc they seem to think its different. just look at all the past posts on exclusives when they were on xbox

I don't know who "they" are or what "they" said. I really don't care. I don't need my posts to be endorsed by whoever "they" are.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom