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Microsoft Blog Says 1080p Meaningless this Generation
- Thread starter Mark Gonzales
- Start date
tahrikmili
Member
Azazela said:
Oh hell yeah, this is the truth. From 480i XBOX to 720p 360 the difference is more than light and day.. I mean, I can't think of a sufficiently good contrast to highlight how different it is.
tahrikmili
Member
Well, unfortunately for you and dark10x this gen will probably be locked 30 at 720p norm with the odd 60fps title with less spectacular models/textures and faster gameplay.. I don't see that changing throughout the entirety of this generation, there's just such a big headroom and so many things to explore in terms of visual quality.
I've certainly come to realization that this is going to be the case, but I still have SOME hope in the PS3...tahrikmili said:
XBOX, like 360, was notorious for delivering content with low or uneven framerates. It was quite uncommon to find original XBOX content running at anything over 30 fps (and it was often much lower). 60 fps XBOX games were either created by teams who are still producing 60 fps this gen (such as Team Ninja) or were simply ports from PS2 which had no troubles reaching 60.
PS2 was a different story and offered the highest percentage of 60 fps titles in the history of 3D consoles. No other machine comes close.
I don't expect this to be the case with PS3, but I *AM* hoping that PS3 games in general will offer better framerates and actual consistency. Probably a false hope, but in the face of last generation, there IS still SOME hope to be found.
I mean, even those Resistance is now a 30 fps game...a rock solid 30 fps would still be a huge improvement over basically any 360 FPS to date (all of which have unstable framerates generally below 30 fps -- CoD2 is an exception and runs at 60 fps but also has heavy slowdown throughout). I could be wrong, but MS seems to be VERY forgiving of framerate issues. I mean, when even the 2D DDR games on XBOX had poor framerates in comparison to the PS2 counterparts, you KNOW something is up with the approval process or something. I don't know where the truth lies, but I do know what I've seen in the past.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Stinkles said:
Nope. Games that are rendered in higher res always can be downscaled to the proper res for Pal. That's the beauty of it. No Pal conversions indeed.
The only problem is that Pal 50 seems to cause some problems with regard to Xbox 360 games. Causing less than smooth framerate. Pal 60 is also supported though, which doesn't have those problems.
Judging by the first games on X360...this seems to be the case...And probably this is also gonna be the case on a lot of PS3 titles.tahrikmili said:
I just hope that certain high-budget titles are 60 fps...like MGS3, GT5, DMC4 and WE11 (I can't wait to see it
)And like Dark10x it seems to be a lot dependant to the people behind the title and the ones approving it.
I highly doubt Kazunori Yamauchi would aprove a 30 fps GT5...
But yeah, when developers began priorizing eye-candy to framerate (basically with the start of the 3D generation) this was expected to happen.
30 fps can be more or less a problem for people who notices it...but when the framerate is even lower and reachs N64 levels this means for me the end of the game since my eyes and brain can't cope with it (I feel dizzy pretty fast).
So let's hope that if 30 fps is the final trend...at least let it be constant and fixed.
dark10x said:
I got the dying breed of Sony direct view 36XS955, simply based on the hi-scan technology and i dig CRT sets --------- I had the horrible Samsung Slimfit at first with only 800 lines of vertical resolution, but the sony hi-scan models have a full 1080 lines of vertical resolution.
I know there's plenty of different science behind a crt, but the resolution seems far (about as far as 720 - 1080i should be i guess) crisper than modest LCD's at the same range in $1000 ------- but if you have any experience with the set, please tell me 'cause i only know what i research
When it comes to watching movies on HD-DVD or Blu Ray, 1080i and 1080p will be virtually indistinguishable.
As far as games, yeah.. I doubt there will be any 1080p games within the first year of the ps3 and probably less than 10 in its entire lifespan. 1080p is an enormous pain in the butt for developers, it will take tons of development time and optimizations and there will be no-one out there to appreciate it.
As far as games, yeah.. I doubt there will be any 1080p games within the first year of the ps3 and probably less than 10 in its entire lifespan. 1080p is an enormous pain in the butt for developers, it will take tons of development time and optimizations and there will be no-one out there to appreciate it.
meltpotato
Member
Nozi said:
i feel like you are going to eat a heap of crow on that one. Not that i don't agree about the feasiblity of 1080p at this point, but i still think there will be a good deal more than 10 titles.
Chris Remo
Member
These blogs run by Microsoft employees are starting to drive me bonkers. I think the Xbox 360 is a great system, but it seems like every other day this guy or Major Nelson or whoever makes some big claim about actual technology that is rooted in nothing other than why Xbox 360 is better than PS3. Obviously that's what marketing is for, but these guys seem to be very successfully painting their podcasts and posts as something that's genuine analysis rather than marketing. It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
The MS blogs just seem to be reacting to whatever Sony is doing.
1080p isn't important because we don't have it
HDMI isn't important because we don't have it
Waggle isn't important because we don't have it
HDD isn't important because we don't have it
Wifi isn't important because we don't have it
HD isn't important because we don't have it
When was the last time MS came up with something exciting?
(XNA was kinda, but too hardcore for most people)
1080p isn't important because we don't have it
HDMI isn't important because we don't have it
Waggle isn't important because we don't have it
HDD isn't important because we don't have it
Wifi isn't important because we don't have it
HD isn't important because we don't have it
When was the last time MS came up with something exciting?
(XNA was kinda, but too hardcore for most people)
Chris Remo
Member
This is what bothers me. I don't have anything against MS (I think Xbox Live is very exciting, as well as the extremely globalized nature of the Xbox 360's various features), but I hate how every single time Sony has some tech that MS doesn't have, the Microsoft Employee Brigade just leaps out and starts shouting about how irrelevant it is. It just seems really tacky to me.dalyr95 said:
And again for the record I have nothing against MS itself. I'm much more excited about 360 than PS3 in general, both for the games and the system itself. However, what that means is that the system is capable of speaking for itself. It doesn't need pseudo-PR mouthpieces defending its every shortcoming. If anything that just makes it seem weaker--why else would they have to speak up for it all the time? If it's good, it's good.
tahrikmili
Member
In their defense, how relevant 1080p and Blu-Ray are to games is truly debatable based on how fast it can create such shit slinging firecracker arguments on GAF :lol
Warm Machine
Member
The 360 can have a game with a native 1080i output right?
Why can't they focus on their own line up instead of trashing what is a better technology?
Or focus on the value that a cheaper 360 brings to the table?
Or do as Sony do and focus on their own games instead of what MS has, why doesn't MS focus on games like GoW or Dead Rising?
As for Blu Ray, its expensive, its in the PS3, its better than DVD, will devs take advantage of it? Who knows, but at least the storage is there, rather have it and not need it, then be stuck
Or focus on the value that a cheaper 360 brings to the table?
Or do as Sony do and focus on their own games instead of what MS has, why doesn't MS focus on games like GoW or Dead Rising?
As for Blu Ray, its expensive, its in the PS3, its better than DVD, will devs take advantage of it? Who knows, but at least the storage is there, rather have it and not need it, then be stuck
meltpotato
Member
tahrikmili said:
i was thinking a lot about BluRay and games the other day. I don't get people arguing that it is not relevant to games. thats some bias-blinders bullshit. Of course devs will try to take advantage of it. Of course it can expand the limits of development.
The issue to me is this: With all consoles, developers are going to have limits and hit walls. BD pushes those walls out further. Is it time yet to push the walls to that distance? Was manditory (large)HDD+DVD the true next step, versus the high entry cost that BD is bringing? I think they jumped the gun a bit, but to say the relevance to gaming is debateable? thats just ignorance.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
So I guess the question is, CAN you tell the difference?McHuj said:Here's a good viewing/distance chart:
The article: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=5&article_id=1137
Basically, I agree with MS, unless you have a very big screen and sit too close to it, there won't be that much difference in the two.
Personally, I have a 32" HDTV at about 10', with my cobination, I'm not supposed to be able to tell the difference between 720p or 1080p.
Chris Remo said:
For reals. Every move MS makes seems to be a reaction to the Playstation 3. Concentrate on your own ****ing console and stop worrying about what Sony does or says. MS is just making the 360 seem like PS3-lite with all their moves and comments lately. MS needs to stop trying to sandbag Sony and concentrate more on promoting the 360, beyond Gears of War.
momolicious
Member
majority of gamers dont even have 1080p tvs haha
tahrikmili
Member
snatches said:
:lol
tahrikmili
Member
Bud said:
3-5 years later people could still be fighting over what real 1080p is, since 1080p isn't a standard set in stone like HD Ready 720p/1080i.
Zombie James
Banned
tahrikmili said:
1080p is part of the ATSC standard.
Anyways, i find the whole argument over 1080p pretty stupid. For one, no one (unless you're a moron) is expecting every PS3 title released to support it. But the option is there if developers choose to use it, and the image quality benefits are clear, so i don't see any downside.
The main problem is that fixed resolution television have better PQ on their native resolution.dalyr95 said:
So a 720p video will look better on a 720p set then a 1080p.
And you also have the resizing lag issue.
So yeah, 1080p is defiantly better then 720p, no question about it, but a single resolution for all games also have its benefits.
...it still will not matter to most people because of screensize and viewing distance.
Buying a 1080p 42" television would be a complete waste of money if you are sitting 10' away.
Resolution ONLY matters within the parameters set by screensize and viewing distance.
DSN2K said:
1080p will only be relevant come the next-next gen of consoles. Barely anyone has a regular HDTV, let alone a 1080p TV which have only just been released and are extraordinarily expensive. This compounded with the fact that developers will not be supporting the format means 1080p is not relevant this round. It's not hard to understand.... is it?
Zombie James
Banned
Nozi said:
And the FUD over 1080p continues. The first 1080p sets were released in 2003 (not "just released") and you can get one today for a little over $1000.
What I'm curious to see is whether or not there will be any benefit of allowing my TV to accept and downscale a 1080p image as opposed to 720p (for PS3 titles that might support it). While my set is unable to fully resolve 1080p, it can accept it and downscale it (basically the reverse of many other 1080p sets which can often RESOLVE it but can't actually accept it). I've often found that downscaling an image produces great results and I'm curious to see what kind of results it will deliver.
I'll have to mess with my PC and 1080p again, actually, as it looked very nice when I last tested it.
I'll have to mess with my PC and 1080p again, actually, as it looked very nice when I last tested it.
To put it another way, HDTVs can display 1028 X 1028 textures. or even 2056 X 2056.
QUestion is can the PS3 output GAMES that would capitalize on this?
Of course it can't, on the same note, can the PS3 output next gen games in 1080p? MS seems to think it aint going to happen.
There might be 1 or 2 that are set up for that resolution, but much like 720p on the Xbox1, it will probably be anything but the standard(and a very simple game to boot).
QUestion is can the PS3 output GAMES that would capitalize on this?
Of course it can't, on the same note, can the PS3 output next gen games in 1080p? MS seems to think it aint going to happen.
There might be 1 or 2 that are set up for that resolution, but much like 720p on the Xbox1, it will probably be anything but the standard(and a very simple game to boot).