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[feynoob]

In the post above this one, you yourself state that MS is abandoning their existing userbase for a theoretical one:


Why on earth would they do that if they're not losing relevance otherwise?

Which is cloud gaming using Xbox consoles, and streaming it to cloud.

That is not losing relevance.

The entire point of that post, was that removing a platform like ps isn't good idea, since MS is sacrifice actual consumers, in hopes of getting more consumers. Hence theoretical consumers.

 

[feynoob]

Why on earth would they do that if they're not losing relevance otherwise?

Because they are expanding business.

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

Because they are expanding business.

Yes, out of necessity.

Moving away from the userbase that keeps them afloat, trying to chase a hypothetical userbase that is as unpredictable as it can be.

If you don't see how that is a problem within MS, then I can probably understand why people keep defending their business practices.

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

Which is cloud gaming using Xbox consoles, and streaming it to cloud.

That is not losing relevance.

The entire point of that post, was that removing a platform like ps isn't good idea, since MS is sacrifice actual consumers, in hopes of getting more consumers. Hence theoretical consumers.

That is losing relevance of the Xbox-brand.

How can you not see how backwards your logic is?

 

[oldergamer]

How are you going to change Phil Spencer's words to fit your own narrative. He specifically said that XBOX isn't sustainable without mobile.

Like, we all know he's lying. You don't have to make up a mathematical equation to support his lies and PR.

My god. Did you read the full article? Actually my bad. I mean have you read recent articles where spencer actually alludes to there being a finite number of households for consoles and that number us barely growing.

We already know what market xbox primarily targets. Are you seeing growth there? Use you head instead of trying to spin it as him lying. Its tiring how some of you constantly spin statements into some sort of negative. keep reaching

 

[oldergamer]

Targeting and having actual consumers are two different things.

MS is abandoning existing customers, for a theoretical consumers.

They can do both! Why is it you would think it has to be one or the other?

They want to add assets for mobile, not convert current dev studios into mobile development

 

[feynoob]

Yes, out of necessity.

Moving away from the userbase that keeps them afloat, trying to chase a hypothetical userbase that is as unpredictable as it can be.

If you don't see how that is a problem within MS, then I can probably understand why people keep defending their business practices.

That is losing relevance of the Xbox-brand.

How can you not see how backwards your logic is?

How is expanding a business meaning "losing relevence'? And that with spending $75b on said business?

People seriously need to take economic classes early.

 

[feynoob]

They can do both! Why is it you would think it has to be one or the other?

Because the audience isnt there yet. Cloud technology is like VR now.
Only available audience is PC right now, which is already getting the product.

They want to add assets for mobile, not convert current dev studios into mobile development

That is different market, since its primary job would be mobile games. I dont think console/pc consumers want mobile games.

 

[John Wick]

It is a fact. You call it stupid makes you ignorant, unwilling to accept the facts. And yes, Xbox hardware is even smaller piece of this pie compared to playstation.


Lol. You do understand that most fines at this level are % of company rev/profit, sony being such a small company compared to ms would go bankrupt if they would have to pay fines in bn of dollars, while for ms it is pocket money. Fines are designed to penalise a company and deter them from making same ‘mistakes’ in the future and not make it bankrupt. Do you have any clue how the real world works?

Go back to your original statement. I think we know which company has a history of stifling competition and monopolistic practises. Yes MS fines are in proportion to how much revenue they raped from holding other companies back. Thanks for clarification!

 

[John Wick]

I don't have to. Nadella said more options. MS is putting games on more devices. Those devices happen to not necessarily be PlayStation but they absolutely outnumber PlayStation so it's objectively true. No one is stopping anyone from using a non-PlayStation device. If you choose to lock yourself in that's your choice.

Stop chatting shit. Provide the stats you claimed to back up your Xbox propaganda?
What options? They don't have any new options that didn't already exist?
I don't care what tools like Nadella state.

 

[John Wick]

Use your head and think about which devices activision isnt currently on. Seriously whats with the dumb questions?

Your so smart so list those new devices you clown. We'll wait..........

 

[John Wick]

…or because they plan to keep it multiplatform like they’ve said from the beginning and would like to keep earning the revenue from PlayStation purchase?

Or the fact that taking an industry leading multiplayer game exclusive to one console is one way to reduce its relevance in the competitive MP shooter scene?




Can you mention some of these monopolistic practices?

I'll mention Netscape.........
I'm sure you can Google the rest? Sorry I mean Bing em

 

[March Climber]

There are more interviews with Microsoft and Sony every week this gen than there are the amount of games that released on the Sega Dreamcast.

 

[pasterpl]

Go back to your original statement. I think we know which company has a history of stifling competition and monopolistic practises. Yes MS fines are in proportion to how much revenue they raped from holding other companies back. Thanks for clarification!

You do understand that pricing cartels (multiple) that Sony was part of were ‘raping’ customer wallets. Just to be clear I am not defending past ms practices, but what I am saying, Sony is equally bad (got even more cases against them in eu compared with ms). Just the scale is different because Sony is such a small company compared to ms. Ms is on a different level compared to Sony so everything looks worse, but this is only if you don’t take to account how big ms is compared to Sony.

 

[Ozriel]

I'll mention Netscape.........
I'm sure you can Google the rest? Sorry I mean Bing em

An Antitrust case, decided June 2001. Two decades ago. That's what you meant when you said 'monopolistic practices are a Microsoft staple'?

You don't know how tenses work? Present, past and future?

 

[DarkMage619]

Stop chatting shit. Provide the stats you claimed to back up your Xbox propaganda?
What options? They don't have any new options that didn't already exist?
I don't care what tools like Nadella state.

Provide stats that there are more devices capable of streaming Xbox Game pass games than PlayStations? Seriously? Those options don't currently exist because MS doesn't own Activision yet and won't until MS adds them via Game pass. Just like you couldn't stream Deathloop until after MS bought Bethesda. You can not care what Nadella says all day long doesn't change that his point is true.

 

[Aaron Olive]

Holy shit can Microsoft stop saying this shit. They're locking games that were multiplat into their own eco system.

This is not more options for gamers, doesn't matter what warrior you are, it's literally less options for gamers.

It really is less just look at their studio management “with exception of Turn 10 and The Coalition” no banger exclusives, can’t meet deadlines and fucking up well established IP….HALO.

 

[Three]

Call of Duty needs a genuine competitor. If it's unavailable on Playstation then Sony will be inclined to develop this much needed competition in order to serve their players, and all players the world overwill be rewarded with the power of even more choice.

Oh yes, because killzone, haze, and resistance worked out so well competing. That juggernaut Halo Infinite and BF2042 also showed COD what success looks like.

 

[pasterpl]

I'll mention Netscape.........
I'm sure you can Google the rest? Sorry I mean Bing em

You seriously don’t know much don’t you? Netscape….lol…I could come up with much more compelling list and I am not even negative towards ms.

Btw. Love you jokes at the expense of one of the biggest and wealthiest tech companies on the planet. Not sure what is the purpose of these, still these make me feel a bit of pity towards you.

 

[John Wick]

You seriously don’t know much don’t you? Netscape….lol…I could come up with much more compelling list and I am not even negative towards ms.

Btw. Love you jokes at the expense of one of the biggest and wealthiest tech companies on the planet. Not sure what is the purpose of these, still these make me feel a bit of pity towards you.

And you do? I'm sure you could by using Bing. Do you think I'm gonna waste my time searching shit up for you just to provide some examples? Why would I do that when I know you'll be doing it. Just like you searched for those Sony cases like a sad clown. You negative towards MS? Take your tongue out of Phils arse pal.
Here we go again. You know it's a fangirl because
A) They will mention how big and wealthy MS are.
B) Will mention it's a trillion dollar company
C) Shill for MS but pretend they are neutral.
Pity yourself

 

[pasterpl]

Not And you do? I'm sure you could by using Bing. Do you think I'm gonna waste my time searching shit up for you just to provide some examples? Why would I do that when I know you'll be doing it. Just like you searched for those Sony cases like a sad clown. You negative towards MS? Take your tongue out of Phils arse pal.
Here we go again. You know it's a fangirl because
A) They will mention how big and wealthy MS are.
B) Will mention it's a trillion dollar company
C) Shill for MS but pretend they are neutral.
Pity yourself

You see, I have got broad interest in markets (not only gaming) as well due to my work I do touch a lot of M&A’s and was involved/part of in some dealings with regulators. I don’t have to research a lot as those things, I provide links only for reference.

Points A and B - it is simply stating facts. You were the one wondering why Sony fines are so much smaller than MS. I have done you a favour and explained this.
Point C - again - I am stating facts, it is not shilling. I owned every single playstation since the first one released, still got my ps2, ps vita, GameCube, Dreamcast, switch, gba, steam deck, gamig pc and more. In my youth spent more time playing on Sony consoles than any other. But yeah, I am shilling for ms because I state facts.

The bold part BRAVO. How old are you 12?

 

[John Wick]

You do understand that pricing cartels (multiple) that Sony was part of were ‘raping’ customer wallets. Just to be clear I am not defending past ms practices, but what I am saying, Sony is equally bad (got even more cases against them in eu compared with ms). Just the scale is different because Sony is such a small company compared to ms. Ms is on a different level compared to Sony so everything looks worse, but this is only if you don’t take to account how big ms is compared to Sony.

Have you got a small weiner complexity? You keep on mentioning big and small in relation to MS and Sony. Yet MS are 3rd in console gaming. If anyone's raping it's MS with the amount of profit they make.

 

[John Wick]

Provide stats that there are more devices capable of streaming Xbox Game pass games than PlayStations? Seriously? Those options don't currently exist because MS doesn't own Activision yet and won't until MS adds them via Game pass. Just like you couldn't stream Deathloop until after MS bought Bethesda. You can not care what Nadella says all day long doesn't change that his point is true.

No because you made a broad statement claiming MS are giving people options to play games on other devices and there are more people without PS devices than there are with. Which means fuck all without context or stats. 8 billion people in the world. That doesn't mean all 8 billion are gonna have access to Xbox games or will even play them.

 

[John Wick]

You see, I have got broad interest in markets (not only gaming) as well due to my work I do touch a lot of M&A’s and was involved/part of in some dealings with regulators. I don’t have to research a lot as those things, I provide links only for reference.

Points A and B - it is simply stating facts. You were the one wondering why Sony fines are so much smaller than MS. I have done you a favour and explained this.
Point C - again - I am stating facts, it is not shilling. I owned every single playstation since the first one released, still got my ps2, ps vita, GameCube, Dreamcast, switch, gba, steam deck, gamig pc and more. In my youth spent more time playing on Sony consoles than any other. But yeah, I am shilling for ms because I state facts.

The bold part BRAVO. How old are you 12?

D) Will claim to owned every PS or play currently on PlayStation.
E) Will counter with I play on all systems while still promoting MS.
You can't make this shit up......

 

[John Wick]

An Antitrust case, decided June 2001. Two decades ago. That's what you meant when you said 'monopolistic practices are a Microsoft staple'?

You don't know how tenses work? Present, past and future?

You need to use a better search engine pal. Bing ain't cutting it.

 

[Ozriel]

You need to use a better search engine pal. Bing ain't cutting it.

I’ll take this as confirmation that you’ve got nothing to cite as an ongoing monopolistic practice.

As expected.

 

[Ozriel]

Oh yes, because killzone, haze, and resistance worked out so well competing. That juggernaut Halo Infinite and BF2042 also showed COD what success looks like.

For obvious reasons, you’re uninterested in including Apex, Fortnite and PUBG in this list.

 

[iHaunter]

You failed then Nadella.

 

[John Wick]

What Nadella is really saying is we're going to remove options not give players more options.
They are buying massive publishers and devs to stifle competition. They know they can't beat Sony or Nintendo at selling games or consoles.
By removing Zenimax and ABK from 3rd party thus taking away competition. Bring them all onto gamepass.

 

[pasterpl]

D) Will claim to owned every PS or play currently on PlayStation.
E) Will counter with I play on all systems while still promoting MS.
You can't make this shit up......

Look at the bundle I was selling recently https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sony...b-1tb-ext-16-games-2xds4-controllers.1638383/
Played all of the game in the bundle, and none made me buy ps5 instead of new Xbox. Some where boring as hell and massively overhyped imo.

And how am I promoting MS? By admitting that I have games to play on xbsx?

 

[Ozriel]

What Nadella is really saying is we're going to remove options not give players more options.
They are buying massive publishers and devs to stifle competition. They know they can't beat Sony or Nintendo at selling games or consoles.
By removing Zenimax and ABK from 3rd party thus taking away competition. Bring them all onto gamepass.

Eh, this scaremongering would have flown by just a few months ago, but Execs at MS have been pretty damn emphatic about keeping COD on PlayStation, and it's pretty much a sure deal that it'll end up as one of the concessions MS has to formally make.

Aside that, there's nothing else they've bought that can remotely 'stifle competition'.

 

[feynoob]

What Nadella is really saying is we're going to remove options not give players more options.
They are buying massive publishers and devs to stifle competition. They know they can't beat Sony or Nintendo at selling games or consoles.
By removing Zenimax and ABK from 3rd party thus taking away competition. Bring them all onto gamepass.

That is how business works.
No one is your friend. You got the money, you make your product attractive.

Sony making 3rd party games timed exclusives to their system, which makes Xbox less attractive. MS buying big publishers, which makes those userbase buy xbox in the process.

Neither is your friend. Both of them care about making their business attractive, and making you spend money on their platform.

 

[feynoob]

Eh, this scaremongering would have flown by just a few months ago, but Execs at MS have been pretty damn emphatic about keeping COD on PlayStation, and it's pretty much a sure deal that it'll end up as one of the concessions MS has to formally make.

Aside that, there's nothing else they've bought that can remotely 'stifle competition'.

From a consumers a prospective, we call that a dickhead move.

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

How is expanding a business meaning "losing relevence'? And that with spending $75b on said business?

People seriously need to take economic classes early.

We literally had Spencer come out and say that the Xbox-brand is "untenable" without the mobile market.

You're basically saying what I (and MS themselves) are saying, while at the same time denying it's being said.

MS is doing what Nintendo did with the Wii and WiiU:
Chase a completely unpredictable and unreliable theoretical market.

Wii was a hit and then WiiU failed hard.

But it's because Nintendo has the brand-recognition and quality 1st party output to bounce back, as proven by the Switch.
It helped that they combined their console with their handheld.

MS doesn't have that luxury.
They don't have the same brand-recognition as PS or Nintendo outside of the US and UK, they also don't have the same quality 1st party library as Sony and Nintendo.

They are expanding, because they have to.

And we all know that they buy studios to prevent competition from getting their games as well.
We've seen this during the X360-era and they will do so again if they regain a big enough presence in the gaming market.

Their current direction is basically a desperate attempt to stay relevant, with lots of PR-fluff.

 

[oldergamer]

Your so smart so list those new devices you clown. We'll wait..........

I already mentioned them, don't act like a dumbass about it.

 

[oldergamer]

Because the audience isnt there yet. Cloud technology is like VR now.
Only available audience is PC right now, which is already getting the product.

That is different market, since its primary job would be mobile games. I dont think console/pc consumers want mobile games.

There is an audience, its small but growing. I don't think its only PC. That was the mistake of stadia.

yes it is a difference market, and that is why they want to "own" different assets specifically for it. fact is they could do both.

 

[oldergamer]

Stop chatting shit. Provide the stats you claimed to back up your Xbox propaganda?
What options? They don't have any new options that didn't already exist?
I don't care what tools like Nadella state.

Why does this device need to not already exist? I don't know why some of you are intent on discounting streaming to devices, as new places where games can be played. You're being intentionally restrictive for the sake of trying to prove a weak point.

 

[Edgelord79]

I can’t fully believe anything anything these people say (this includes and CEO or heads of departments). It’s always full of market-speak, half-truths and run through public relations.

Basically all Nadella is saying is [paraphrase] “Our entire goal is to bring more revenue” to Xbox.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Lol have xbox fans really changed their stance on cod going exclusive? You guys were pretty sure cod would be exclusive when the deal was first announced. Don't deny it. Now it's "Microsoft never wanted cod to be exclusive!"

You really think Microsoft wouldn't make it exclusive if they could? They only changed their stance because of the regulators. So did you guys.

 

[feynoob]

We literally had Spencer come out and say that the Xbox-brand is "untenable" without the mobile market.

You're basically saying what I (and MS themselves) are saying, while at the same time denying it's being said.

That is not losing relevance dude.
That is a business needing to branch itself out, because the cost is becoming too much.
Do you know how much is xbox/MS is losing money on consoles? They are losing $100 to $200 for these consoles. They need to get some of those money back. It's why they are investing in other avenue.
Then add cost of making games, and you see why these moves make sense.

MS is doing what Nintendo did with the Wii and WiiU:
Chase a completely unpredictable and unreliable theoretical market.

Wii was a hit and then WiiU failed hard.

But it's because Nintendo has the brand-recognition and quality 1st party output to bounce back, as proven by the Switch.
It helped that they combined their console with their handheld.

MS doesn't have that luxury.

You are simply rambling here.

They don't have the same brand-recognition as PS or Nintendo outside of the US and UK, they also don't have the same quality 1st party library as Sony and Nintendo.

Because those had much more presence than xbox. . Xbox is much younger than them. Not to mention, they are Asian company. They would always have more market reach, due to that advantage.

They are expanding, because they have to.

That is how business is. You dont always focus on your home turf.

And we all know that they buy studios to prevent competition from getting their games as well.
We've seen this during the X360-era and they will do so again if they regain a big enough presence in the gaming market.

Welcome to business world buddy.

Their current direction is basically a desperate attempt to stay relevant, with lots of PR-fluff.

I can't man. This is just too much. You reaching too much here.

 

[feynoob]

There is an audience, its small but growing. I don't think its only PC. That was the mistake of stadia.

That doesn't justify their words. They can't say we are reaching more gamers, when the audience is much lesser than the actual audience.

yes it is a difference market, and that is why they want to "own" different assets specifically for it. fact is they could do both.

No one is blaming them for that. Its a great move for xbox fans, since xbox would get more revenue, which means more investment on xbox.

 

[feynoob]

Lol have xbox fans really changed their stance on cod going exclusive? You guys were pretty sure cod would be exclusive when the deal was first announced. Don't deny it. Now it's "Microsoft never wanted cod to be exclusive!"

You really think Microsoft wouldn't make it exclusive if they could? They only changed their stance because of the regulators. So did you guys.

MS never changed their stance because of regulators.
Their stance has been the same. CoD would stay on Ps.
MS isnt like xbox fans. They know COd would make alot of money by being on PS, compared to making it exclusive.

They aren't dumb. This is a business for them.

They would get gamepass benefit and COd profits on PS.

 

[Pelta88]

Who is willing to give me their mortgage/rent payment? Utilities, car/vehicle payment and other expenses. Add to that all of your disposable income for the month. I promise to give it all back an hour after you give it to me...

Nobody of sound mind would do that right? Because a promise is not legally binding. Once a person puts that money in my bank account, they have Zero legal recourse. That's how illegal scams work.

But we're 11 months into this deal being announced and people are still suggesting that because Phil Spencer "promised" to keep COD on PS that there should be no regulatory input. And that the deal should go through based on the strength of one man's word. I find that astonishing. I mean, a person can love their preferred platform. But adulation of a platform's CEO to the point where people actually believe his PR has legal merit, speaks more to a persons mental state.

You can love/hate Nintendo/PS/XBOX but dismissing the legal framework and international laws these companies operate under is nonsensical and plain stupid.

 

[feynoob]

Who is willing to give me their mortgage/rent payment? Utilities, car/vehicle payment and other expenses. Add to that all of your disposable income for the month. I promise to give it all back an hour after you give it to me...

Nobody of sound mind would do that right? Because a promise is not legally binding. Once a person puts that money in my bank account, they have Zero legal recourse. That's how illegal scams work.

But we're 11 months into this deal being announced and people are still suggesting that because Phil Spencer "promised" to keep COD on PS that there should be no regulatory input. And that the deal should go through based on the strength of one man's word. I find that astonishing. I mean, a person can love their preferred platform. But adulation of a platform's CEO to the point where people actually believe his PR has legal merit, speaks more to a persons mental state.

You can love/hate Nintendo/PS/XBOX but dismissing the legal framework and international laws these companies operate under is nonsensical and plain stupid.

I can't believe COD is making this much chaos.

 

[oldergamer]

That doesn't justify their words. They can't say we are reaching more gamers, when the audience is much lesser than the actual audience.

First your statement makes zero sense. Second, any device with a screen that casual gamers use, it in fact "reaching more gamers" when you put games on those devices.

 

[adamsapple]

Who is willing to give me their mortgage/rent payment? Utilities, car/vehicle payment and other expenses. Add to that all of your disposable income for the month. I promise to give it all back an hour after you give it to me...

Nobody of sound mind would do that right? Because a promise is not legally binding. Once a person puts that money in my bank account, they have Zero legal recourse. That's how illegal scams work.

But we're 11 months into this deal being announced and people are still suggesting that because Phil Spencer "promised" to keep COD on PS that there should be no regulatory input. And that the deal should go through based on the strength of one man's word. I find that astonishing. I mean, a person can love their preferred platform. But adulation of a platform's CEO to the point where people actually believe his PR has legal merit, speaks more to a persons mental state.

You can love/hate Nintendo/PS/XBOX but dismissing the legal framework and international laws these companies operate under is nonsensical and plain stupid.

 

[feynoob]

First your statement makes zero sense. Second, any device with a screen that casual gamers use, it in fact "reaching more gamers" when you put games on those devices.

More access doesn't mean guarantee gamers.
This is from MS report on xcloud.

During a recently held Q1 2023 earnings call, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella announced that over 20 million people have streamed video games using Xbox Cloud Gaming.

Its work on progress. That number depends on gamepass numbers and fortnite as of now. Until MS branches out Xcloud more, those devices wont be able to utlize xcloud effectively.

Then there is the tech limitation, which is hindering xcloud right now. Until those issues are fixed, I dont see how MS are able to get those "Users".

 

[oldergamer]

More access doesn't mean guarantee gamers.
This is from MS report on xcloud.

Who said anything about guaranteed? you don't reach more gamers by NOT having games on more devices. More devices you are on translates directly into more people playing your games. How many that equals can be determined after, but you won't get the same number by restricting yourselves to one or two platforms that have a ceiling on units sold each generation.

i think you argued yourself into a corner.

 

[feynoob]

Who said anything about guaranteed? you don't reach more gamers by NOT having games on more devices. More devices you are on translates directly into more people playing your games. How many that equals can be determined after, but you won't get the same number by restricting yourselves to one or two platforms that have a ceiling on units sold each generation.

i think you argued yourself into a corner.

The current argument is

More gamers

That is not available with xcloud. We dont know how much users would they reach, considering the condition of cloud gaming these days, and their limitation.

Until we actually have 50+m users, we cant believe more gamers statement. Once xcloud has that numbers, we can believe it.

 

[Pelta88]

The irony.

Most of us have left you and feynoob to your own devices some time ago.