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Microsoft considered making the Xbox One without a disc drive.
- Thread starter BY2K
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Actually it's the present, but welcome.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Nearly all the digital-only games I own on steam are $15 or less, and I'm 99.9% certain I'll still own them the next time I upgrade my PC, or if I buy a steam box. After Sony and MS decided that BC wasn't in their best interest, I have given up on console digital gaming. It simply doesn't have the same consistency of PC or mobile.
soul creator
Member
I still own my digital purchases on Xbox 360, even after upgrading to an Xbox One
BC and "digital ownership" are two separate issues...though it intuitively feels like it "should" be the same thing.
A better example to use would probably be how OG Xbox Live stuff was lost (even if the 360 was backwards compatible with a lot of OG Xbox games). Or PS2 DLC (if that was even ever a thing). Or maybe Games for Windows Live. I'd honestly be surprised if Xbox 360 servers are turned off anytime soon though, considering its popularity (all the other examples were much smaller). Even then, they could always maintain the download history part of things even if the "full" Live service is cut off at any point.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Heh, so I can't give my opinion about why I personally like buying games digitally? You act as if I'm pushing others to do the same. I'm not and have said many times why it's not the most ideal option for everyone.
Sob story? I was interested in the plan... I see how others wouldn't have been but during that time I wanted to get more info about it and was disappointed when it was cut since I was simply interested in seeing how it would be.
Don't see what that has to do with anything I said in my post you quoted. I find the random off-topic attacks from you (and other posters) in threads where I simply state my interests/opinion hilarious. Some of you guys really need to chill out.
Orniletter
Banned
The One and Done;95608858 said:
foward into the abyss of anti-consumer rights.
Oh, absolutely.
I simply realize that I rarely go back to playing old 3D games from a gen that was "current" 5+ years ago. Again, that's me and that's on top of many "ifs" (e.g.: IF they cut down the servers within a few years after the successor console is released + IF my hard drive & backups completely die).
You are in the sense that you have stated negatives of going digital as if they are the same for everyone who chooses to go digital. You brought up caps and slow download speeds when I don't have to worry about either of those which is a big reason why I went digital in the first place.
Again, I never said that it was ideal for everyone and said in my first post in this thread that while I would more than likely would have chose to buy next gen consoles without disc drives if the option was there, it wouldn't be smart for that to be the only console available. A version with a disc drive would be needed for the millions upon millions of other people who don't have an internet connection like mines.
spookyfish
Gold Member
They just didn't get their message across properly/accurately/succintly. Otherwise, it was a great idea, and the showing was strong -- for those interested in TV.
the problem is that sticking with discs doesn't really solve that. Including used games / rentals helps, but the games are still expensive upfront. In an all-download future is every new release game still $59.99? I don't think so, but who knows when we'll actually find out.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Yea, no way this was ever going to happen, apart from a device more geared towards non gaming specific applications.
FranXico
Member
To be fair, Steam has made non physical game libraries attractive through competitive pricing.
Contrast that to Microsoft's proposed approach.
Dombrowski
is responsible for the well-being of this island.
iPhones and iPads don't have them and I see Angry Birds doing fine. 'tis the future.
But you CAN is the difference. You can buy most current retail PC games as a physical disc and it usually comes with a Steam code and so you end up with a faster way to reinstall while also having it as a digital game. They even gave people the option to buy Planetside 2 as a physical disc to install for people with slower connections.
People continue to assume that just because most US brick and mortar stores no longer carry PC game discs and because they personally only use digital for their PC game purchases, then that must mean PC gaming is equal to an XBO with no optical drive.
PC gaming continues to have a physical purchase option. Trust me.
The reason? Because why the hell not? It's leaving money on the table to not cater to as many buyers as possible. MS having no optical media would actually make things worse for third party developers trying to make a buck. Because it would shrink the potential market.
Too many people still buy physical discs. This would have been a disaster if MS had gone through with it. Honestly, I don't get why MS couldn't have kept the old policies, but been more flexible. So basically, if you want to buy the physical disc and trade it in, then you can't completely install it to the HDD and get all the cloud features (such as MS hosting your game in the cloud when you delete it, or being able to share it with family and friends).
They should have had an option where when you put the disc in, you are given the option to either install the game completely and forfeit the ability to use the disc on other drives, and sell it to a third party (because it then becomes tied to your account/system), or be able to decline that, and just play it off the disc like it's done now (I know there is mandatory installs).
I don't understand why MS did the ALL or nothing approach. Why their 180 included them stripping all their other supposed features. Didnt make sense to me.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Come on, Phil...
Strong shoeing more like...
Strong shoeing more like...
Oh you mean like how MS had a store front on Amazon back in the day?
This isn't really a store front though right? I mean Amazon is basically selling PSN codes for games just like they sell steam codes for games. Not sure what MS had on there was the same thing.
I am buying all digital right now, but it's not the same at all.
I can't pick up a game cheap when it's price drops at retail, and still maintain a digital collection.
I can't quickly install a 50gb game from disc to avoid waiting on it to download (or re-download).
I can't resell the license to any of my digital content at all, so I need to be a lot more certain about a game before buying it for £50 digitally.
I can't get limited editions or pre-order bonuses that apply to retail games.
There was plenty that I could have done before the 180, that I can't now. I'm surprised these things still need to be mentioned. If you didn't like it, or thought the trade-offs weren't worth it for you, then fine, but for the love of god can people stop saying that there is nothing lost by buying digital now in comparison?
That said though... discless? Fuuuck that.
What does any of what you said have to do with removing the optical drive? Nothing is stopping everything you said from happening on current game systems that still have an optical drive. Reducing the amount of possible game inputs into a game system doesn't make the environment for what you said any better.
nssdigitalchumps
Member
So, hdd only means that you have to purchase their proprietary hdd, which is probably $100 (they did it before if you remember the Xbox 360 hdd difference).
So, if you're paying $199 for a blu-ray-less system then you're paying $299 for one with a bigger hdd. If the hdd fails then you have to send in your system to get it replaced because opening up your system to replace the hdd voids your warranty.
How is this a better deal?
So many questions left on the table and it sounds like they were more than ready to implement terrible things to make sure that a disc-less system was a-go. So many negatives are surrounding this idea that I'm not quite sure this wouldn't have been a worse announcement than the one they whispered on May 21st of last year.
So, if you're paying $199 for a blu-ray-less system then you're paying $299 for one with a bigger hdd. If the hdd fails then you have to send in your system to get it replaced because opening up your system to replace the hdd voids your warranty.
How is this a better deal?
So many questions left on the table and it sounds like they were more than ready to implement terrible things to make sure that a disc-less system was a-go. So many negatives are surrounding this idea that I'm not quite sure this wouldn't have been a worse announcement than the one they whispered on May 21st of last year.
I really don't think that would have worked.
It would have been a nightmare for places like eBay and such, where a user would be able to mislead a buy on whether or not the disc they're selling is basically a coaster now. At least with the previous implementation it would have been clear what was required for each used disc to be sold.
Well, you can use an external drive to store games. Also if your internal drive in your X1 breaks, then it's the same story now anyway, you're still not getting it running without sending it in for replacement.
This would definitely have been a worse announcement though. I mean, it would have still pissed off basically everyone that had a problem with the plans pre-180, and on top of that they would have pissed of a decent portion of those that were happy with it pre-180 (such as myself). I can't think of anything other than slightly cheaper hardware costs, and the ability to remove the 24hr check-in that would be better in this scenario.
nssdigitalchumps
Member
Also, for the 'we're already digital people' who are trying to compare MS's world to Steam's, when the prices get about even with the digital delivery on XBL and PSN then you're making a valid point.
Until then, it's not comparable.
Until then, it's not comparable.
ShockingAlberto
Member
What is stopping you from simply never using the disc drive?
Maybe they should have considered making an Xbox One without Kinect instead
It's important to remember that recreational Marijuana just got legalized in the state of Washington
Strong E3 showing? They where either high as fuck, or they are completely clueless.
It's important to remember that recreational Marijuana just got legalized in the state of Washington
ChiliManiac
Banned
Does anybody second guess buying or streaming a CD online from a site like Pandora anymore? Does anybody second guess streaming a video from Apple, Netflix, Amazon or Google anymore even if sometimes you have to pay for the content? When was the last time you actually went out to the store and bought a CD(pending on your location in the world)? For those of us that have steam...I remember the last disc based game that I actually bought was the collectors edition of Skyrim(or was it SWTOR? lol) otherwise I would have pre loaded it on steam. The only thing that's preventing this from coming a visible reality like Microsoft already said is bandwidth. Which the Cable companies have a stranglehold on.
Oh, huh. My point's still there or reinforced though, I think that works best when the player isn't too expensive and from the multimedia angle Microsoft would have been biting off too much being that big, expensive, but with no blu-ray and demanding an additional subscription at least for streaming services. I assume they weren't so dumb as to block purchases behind it, but that's small consolation to me.
You can already buy any game digitally and we have no idea how sharing would've even worked. Sucks for those that really wanted cases and install discs still without double dipping, and places with shit pricing and/or poor bandwidth are obviously a huge problem, but the critical "the future!" component was there and it wasn't like any of this was going to revolutionize the gameplay experience.The One and Done;95608858 said:
Yeah, I'd hope that some companies take more aggressive moves against cable companies by simply having a far better service, such as what google fibre appears to be doing.
In regards to the Xbox digital future that got canned compared to all the quoted services - All those services have a reasonable amount of consumer trust, and I think that is really important for consumers that want to go digital. All those services have demonstrated that they are able to be competitive and reliable relatively early in their life time. MS on the other hand, have not done that yet or in the past, and I feel that, along with the complete confusion of their own information on their policies, is why it had such an uproar. If both Sony and MS can demonstrate that digital is more affordable, safe to use, easier to use, and highly competitive and always available, next gen an all in digital system will be more acceptable
ChiliManiac
Banned
Yup, I think you hit the nail on the head, as it stands with all these security breaches and same sometimes even higher prices than retail that does not bode well. Problem is places like gamestop simply wont allow this to happen, honestly they're the real winners in this whole DRM fight. So long as GameStop has power they can continue to have a monopoly in the games market. Everything else is reactionary to them to this point. Were I live we have a gamestop right next to a walmart, and they're still around. That says a huge amount about the power they have to control the market and keep prices fixed and locked. I actually supported Microsoft with their original policies because it would take gamestop out of the picture down the road and I still hope that's the case. There needs to be more competition. Game Price Fixing is the biggest scandal there is right now and nobody is doing anything about it because they can't. It's a shame they can't have a more open digital ecosystem like steam.
Actually, competition is one of the more major factors. Look at everything you listed.
You want music? Go to Pandora, iTunes, Spotify, Google Play and find the price that fits what you want.
You want Video? Go to Netflix, Hulu, HBOGo, Cable and find the price that fits what you want.
You want Games on Xbox One's proposed future? Buy them from Microsoft.
See the difference here?
Digital Distribution as a future for consoles is a possibility, but prices will not be appealing to customers until there is competition on the platform. If Xbox One had launched without a disc drive and all games had to be bought from Xbox Live as well as a Steam marketplace, Origin marketplace, GreenManGaming, etc etc that'd be great for consumers.
ChiliManiac
Banned
Probably should read my above post, no need to be hostile. Competition is the problem, Nobody will disagree with you there man, esp not me. Lack of Competition from major retailers is killing the online digital market. GameStop literally has a stranglehold, Amazon is trying to compete and hopefully they succeed.
Wasn't trying to be hostile, sorry if it came off that way!
entremet
Member
That's a good point.
ChiliManiac
Banned
No worries, but yeah I see your point. Lack of competition in the game industry period is killing off digital. Nobody is even close to Steam(minus the fact they're digital but look at every other PC game retailer they killed off lol) and nobody is even close to GameStop except for maybe Amazon and I see digital as a way out of this rut where each Publisher gets to set prices on the titles they sell and don't have to worry about going through major corporations.
Digital on PC is still thriving. Steam definitely have the biggest platform but Gog, GreenManGaming, GetGamesGo etc etc are all doing well. And as much as we like to praise Steam as the greatest thing in PC gaming, if they all vanished Steam sales would become a lot less impressive.
Incidentally this is probably why BC will be essential next gen: if they iterate on this hardware and we can have BC with current gen and they actually want to push all digital? Yeah, maybe I can be more receptive to that. But if they burn bridges AGAIN and repeat all this shit, well, fuck them.
ChiliManiac
Banned
Good point. Gog is awesome. Haven't really used the other companies that much.
KingJ2002
Member
creating a xbox one without a disc drive and kinect could definitely cut costs down considerably... position it for users who are looking for apple tv alternatives. Especially with their azure streaming games service on the way.
Microsoft should consider releasing this in the future and test the market for a fully digital future.
Microsoft should consider releasing this in the future and test the market for a fully digital future.
PreyingShark
Member
Why, a little less than 2 weeks ago! Thanks for asking.
CDs are nice because you can rip them to as many computers as you wish with your desired quality and format. You can also use them in CD players. They also make a nice gift.
Most important thing is that they're Monster Rancher compatible, though!
ChiliManiac
Banned
Right, if they went digital only and sold it at 300 or even 400 people might actually buy it. It's not a bad idea, they can always release a separate digital only model in the future without a disc and go full cloud.
I'm yet to find a game on steam that breaks 50gb and steam is not metered for a lot of ISP's. Big difference.Is Steam also dead down under?
ultratruman
Banned
Dreamgazer
Member
Except it's not.
Publishers can still be greedy on their own, and many have shown that they're willing to fix/keep prices high their own monopolized distribution channel . One example is Activision, where Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 digital prices are still ridiculously high compared to games released in the same periods.
Activision also sets limits to discounts for other digital retail platforms, as even Call of Duty prices on steam/amazon are ridiculously fixed. Modern Warfare 3 has never gone lower than $20 since its release.
http://www.steamprices.com/us/app/115300/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3
Publishers are not going to lower prices when they can get with it, and there's no better place to get away with it than close platforms like consoles.
