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[PG2G]

windows 8 is the next Windows millenium/windows vista

I'd agree that Windows 8 is going to have little to no penetration in to corporate environment, it is truly a consumer focused OS. On the other hand, is that really a problem? Many major corporations are just now migrating to Windows 7, they won't be looking to upgrade until Windows 9 at the earliest.

 

[dragonelite]

I still work with guys who think GUI's are utter bullshit.

From the 2 months that i used Linux i have to say that if you know what every command does and you can do it right and have a logical file structure. It owns a GUI im that much faster.
Atleast that is a reason for choosing linux is if you use those commands. Win8 is just like that you need to relearn the alot of the basics which is a shitty step to undertake should be 5min for the most basic features.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Ehhh... we're going to go way off topic with this one but Windows phone is actually growing. Especially after the Nokia phone launched.

Forbes: Who's Behind the Resurgence of Windows Phone?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/siliconangle/2012/06/08/whos-behind-the-resurgence-of-windows-phone/

That's a nice fluff piece, but... WorldWide data from Gartner reveals Windows Phone went from 2,6% marketshare to 1,9% marketshare this year. Euro telecoms (theoretically Nokia's best clients) complain about WP tanking. Specifically talking about the Nokia Lumia, they're publically saying in order to sell well it should either be loaded with Android or sold at a loss.

By all measure, Windows Phone is a failure. Unless a sub 2% global smartphone share is considered a success...

 

[StudioTan]

That's a nice fluff piece, but... WorldWide data from Gartner reveals Windows Phone went from 2,6% marketshare to 1,9% marketshare this year. Euro telecoms (theoretically Nokia's best clients) complain about WP tanking. Specifically talking about the Nokia Lumia, they're publically saying in order to sell well it should either be loaded with Android or sold at a loss.

By all measure, Windows Phone is a failure. Unless a sub 2% global smartphone share is considered a success...

Their marketshare went down but they sold more devices.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Their marketshare went down but they sold more devices.

 

[Krilekk]

They tried this with Vista as well and failed miserably. This will be the same, nobody (with a desktop Windows 7 PC) wants Windows 8.

 

[demolitio]

Remember, with Age of Empires and MS Flight, they're looking to get back into PC gaming again! :/

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Their marketshare went down but they sold more devices.

Because the market is expanding, but they aren't even selling enough to keep up.

You can look at it sideways if you want, but the result is the same.

 

[Walshicus]

By all measure, Windows Phone is a failure. Unless a sub 2% global smartphone share is considered a success...

This doesn't jive with the data my site sees. Windows Phone and Android are seeing increased share of "mobile phone" device types. Blackberry and iPhone are both decreasing.

Since January this year, we've seen a doubling of Windows Phone traffic, tied to the Lumia. Like it or not, Windows Phone is gaining solid momentum at a rate faster than Android in its infancy.

 

[Gaogaogao]

lets see how long microsoft cares about pc games for this time.

 

[plagiarize]

This



LOL

help desk as in taking calls and routing them to the actual techs or you go out to see the users? Our help desk just takes calls, majority of them don't know jack shit. They just have good phone manners and have been trained on how to route calls and reset passwords. Granted companies label their IT departments differently so help desk at one company means the tech that supports users, apps, devices etc.. ours is just people taking calls and we are soon to outsource that to india.

Before help desk or analyst begin to rollout and support these apps desktop and application engineers are working behind the scenes. Messaging teams, developers, database managers, trainers learning the in and outs to prepare for user training.

Large companies have a lot of planning to do before rolling out an OS.

Does it work with our filemaker database? Peoplesoft? Intranet web clients? Woodwing (this is more of a mac os x thing but same rules apply, new os? what does it break?) We just approved Lion this week.

New outlook client? damn it we just upgraded, trained and migrated. We have to spend money and time to do this again?

as for tablet support, we're invested in iPad. Android devices have officially been removed from our environment for corporate use, we only have them for testing our websites and digital content before it goes out to the consumer.

No? send a rep to meet with woodwing and microsoft to discuss how to fix it to make it work. That stops the flow as we wait for an answer from those companies.

Upgrade woodwing/filemaker servers/exchange? how much is that going to cost us? and with each new version come training. training costs money.

we just started rolling out windows 7 a few months ago on a small scale.

Which is why those windows 7 sales are false information. We bought pc's that came with a windows 7 license. We unboxed it, wiped it and put our xp image on them. A good majority of them came with windows 2007 even though at the time office 2007 was not approved yet so again we installed office 2003.

We just upgraded this year from exchange server 2003 to 2010. That costs money, training, time, testing, migration tools to be created to upgrade from entourage to outlook 2011 on the mac side, pst migrations, calendering support.

I don't know about everyone else but we are talking about at least 5,000 employees just in new york. LA and other remote offices not to mention overseas are a different story.

I've worked in IT from every upgrade from windows 3.11 to windows 7.

windows 8 is the next Windows millenium/windows vista

as for easy to use? LMFAO, there are execs making multi million dollar deals but still cant find the power button. Hell some of them can't remember the password they just changed this morning.

People are stupid, its why support staff have a job. Yall giving users way too much faith and credit.

so you didn't read my other posts then. please do.

when we went to Office 2010 we had people who couldn't figure out how to print. but weirdly, once i showed them how to print, they were able to print.

i'm a tech. i mentioned i answered the helpdesk to show i was in direct contact with users and knew exactly the sort of complaints that changing something major like an OS brings about, but yes, i go out to the floor and to our various sites. i fix problems, create and configure images, yada yada yada.

yes, many people don't like the change at first, and take a while to get comfortable with it, but as others have said, this doesn't look like a bigger change than the ribbon was, and our older staff all successfully made that shift.

 

[JaggedSac]

This doesn't jive with the data my site sees. Windows Phone and Android are seeing increased share of "mobile phone" device types. Blackberry and iPhone are both decreasing.

Since January this year, we've seen a doubling of Windows Phone traffic, tied to the Lumia. Like it or not, Windows Phone is gaining solid momentum at a rate faster than Android in its infancy.

Also, those numbers were from before the 900 was released, which was the biggest push by MS yet.

 

[Raoh]

I'd agree that Windows 8 is going to have little to no penetration in to corporate environment, it is truly a consumer focused OS. On the other hand, is that really a problem? Many major corporations are just now migrating to Windows 7, they won't be looking to upgrade until Windows 9 at the earliest.

Just like windows 7, they sold machines but no one used the os. They wiped it, that's due to ms forcing manufacturers to include windows licences with each computer sold. They touted high corporate windows 7 purchases but they never actually said how many were actually used.

People champion how high microsoft sales are but the numbers are bullshit. MS is good at making numbers look good. Hell they had people believing vista was a corporate success, I still don't know any company that ran vista.

so you didn't read my other posts then. please do.

when we went to Office 2010 we had people who couldn't figure out how to print. but weirdly, once i showed them how to print, they were able to print.

i'm a tech. i mentioned i answered the helpdesk to show i was in direct contact with users and knew exactly the sort of complaints that changing something major like an OS brings about, but yes, i go out to the floor and to our various sites. i fix problems, create and configure images, yada yada yada.

yes, many people don't like the change at first, and take a while to get comfortable with it, but as others have said, this doesn't look like a bigger change than the ribbon was, and our older staff all successfully made that shift.

First, I'd like to apologize, after reading over what I typed I felt I came across as an Ahole, that was not my intention, so I am sorry if it came across that way.


On topic:
Sure you teach them but its still a corporate wide initiative. There is nothing to teach until we decide how we are going to implement the services and apps. We did countless training sessions of grous of 20-50 users for roughly 5,0000 people. And still ended up with many many questions and calls for one on one consultation. Training some of these users is like training a bear to hit a button for a fish to come down from a chute. You'd be surprised how many people don't care about technology and only use it for their needed tasks.

I keep getting users asking me if they can have a mac instead of a sony computer. THey have a mac pro hooked up to a 17/19 inch sony monitor.

Users still freak out daily making the same mistake, hit the home/tools/etc button on the outlook ribbon and their buttons are gone. PST folders that get collopsed and they think they lost their folders, or they mistakenly drag a folder into a folder.

 

[GungHo]

so you didn't read my other posts then. please do.

when we went to Office 2010 we had people who couldn't figure out how to print. but weirdly, once i showed them how to print, they were able to print.

i'm a tech. i mentioned i answered the helpdesk to show i was in direct contact with users and knew exactly the sort of complaints that changing something major like an OS brings about, but yes, i go out to the floor and to our various sites. i fix problems, create and configure images, yada yada yada.

yes, many people don't like the change at first, and take a while to get comfortable with it, but as others have said, this doesn't look like a bigger change than the ribbon was, and our older staff all successfully made that shift.

How many people work in your IT fiefdom?

 

[AuthenticM]

I'm still on XP so... I guess it's time for me to upgrade?

 

[diffusionx]

Users still freak out daily making the same mistake, hit the home/tools/etc button on the outlook ribbon and their buttons are gone. PST folders that get collopsed and they think they lost their folders, or they mistakenly drag a folder into a folder.

Honest question: for something like this, don't you think a Metro-ized system might be better - one where, you know, you don't need to navigate the file structure and hunt down apps in the start menu and shit?

This is what I meant about the desktop/folder metaphor not automatically being the best way.

 

[plagiarize]

How many people work in your IT fiefdom?

we have about 300 staff members, across four different sites two of which are 24/7/365 environments. the IT department currently numbers 3 people, including our director/senior network admin, our network admin/database admin and myself, who handles the bulk of tech work, help desk, people interaction etc.

we're hoping to get some more staff soon.

 

[Photolysis]

Honest question: for something like this, don't you think a Metro-ized system might be better - one where, you know, you don't need to navigate the file structure and hunt down apps in the start menu and shit?

This is what I meant about the desktop/folder metaphor not automatically being the best way.

What's baffling is your refusal to acknowledge this problem was already improved in Windows 7 by the addition of the search function to the start menu, as well as the greatly enhanced task bar. It was an issue but was solved years ago. It seems like you're refusing to acknowledge that Windows 7 even exists, because I don't spend any time hunting down apps in Windows 7, and I never have, and can find any random application in seconds. Short of telepathically reading my mind, Metro cannot make that any faster.

One of the reasons why Windows 7 was well received was because of useful improvements like that. People aren't opposed to change, they're just opposed to needless change and being told repeatedly something is better when they find it negatively impacts them.

I've seen videos of Metro and having it forced upon me on the 360, I can tell you that it is clunky, intrusive, and will mean I spend more time battling with the UI. It doesn't improve anything. It's tiresome hearing about how it offers fictional improvements, solves non-existent problems, and being repeatedly told how much better it is when I can see that it isn't.

 

[JaggedSac]

Just like windows 7, they sold machines but no one used the os. They wiped it, that's due to ms forcing manufacturers to include windows licences with each computer sold. They touted high corporate windows 7 purchases but they never actually said how many were actually used.

People champion how high microsoft sales are but the numbers are bullshit. MS is good at making numbers look good. Hell they had people believing vista was a corporate success, I still don't know any company that ran vista.

Oh my. Regardless of the fact that there are no numbers to back up that claim, what difference does it make to MS? A sale is a sale. If people are dumb enough to buy your stuff and not use it, all the better for you.

 

[Jobiensis]

Windows 95 introduced the Start button and there was and uproar.

Bullshit, you can't use Dvorack as any sort of indicator of technical popularity, like gauging popularity from an Andy Rooney segment. The start menu and unification of File Manager and Program Manager was incredibly well received.

I agree with Durante, Metro isn't that bad, it's their future direction that is fucked.

 

[Raoh]

Honest question: for something like this, don't you think a Metro-ized system might be better - one where, you know, you don't need to navigate the file structure and hunt down apps in the start menu and shit?

This is what I meant about the desktop/folder metaphor not automatically being the best way.

For me? Sure.. But I already had this metro like environment when everyone told me it was garbage and I loved it.

Apple called it dashboard, google called it android, microsoft is calling it metro.

I always liked it, but windows folk told me to fuck off. Now they like it. I find it really hard to take many windows fans seriously at times because similar situations like this.

Integrated facebook etc is supposed to be awesome on win mobile but they dismissed it when apple said it would be a part of mountain lion?

Metro to me is a fail as a tablet not from microsoft but from the microsoft fanboys. For years we've said no one wants a start menu on a tablet even though ballmer and gates have been trying for almost a decade. Now they make it iOS like and they invented it?

I can't take these people seriously. It's like slamming sony for trying to take over the living room but then loving microsoft for being so forward thinking for trying to take over the living room..

I swear sometimes i live in a bizarro world.

Time Inc just admitted they were wrong they are going to work with iTunes. I work at Time Inc. I've told everyone for years to learn from NBC's mistakes of trying to pull out of iTunes, your just going to look foolish. We spent sooo much money and resources to fight apple that herst and conde nast got the jump on us. And if your looking from the outside looking in, microsoft (time inc and nbc) (and primarily its fans) just look foolish.

To me metro just lookls like a copy of iOS. And if they windows wants to say they were in that arena first, they dropped windows media center that metro is very much like. but windows media center sucks/sucked, the more content you had the more it took to load. and windows media center was touted as the killer app for xbox 360.

OS X Dashboard (now launchpad)

I'd post some google android pics but, its really just apple dashboard, just look above for android.

APple has icons, microsoft made them square and rectangular.. innovation...

 

[Raoh]

Oh my. Regardless of the fact that there are no numbers to back up that claim, what difference does it make to MS? A sale is a sale. If people are dumb enough to buy your stuff and not use it, all the better for you.

Sigh..

Every computer we bought in the last two years had to have windows 7 built in. We wiped it and put xp on it.

The option we wanted as a corporation was to buy only the hardware and we would buy xp licenses.

MS said no, new dell computer must have windows 7 on it. sigh.. fine we need the hardware, we own it so we will wipe it. ms still got the numbers but no one was using it.\

If people are dumb enough to install a new os and not confirm that their backend software works they are the dumb ones. this isn't a home machine. its a corporate environment.

 

[GungHo]

we have about 300 staff members, across four different sites two of which are 24/7/365 environments. the IT department currently numbers 3 people, including our director/senior network admin, our network admin/database admin and myself, who handles the bulk of tech work, help desk, people interaction etc.

we're hoping to get some more staff soon.

I think where you and the other guys are getting cross-wise is in scale. When some folks are talking about their corporate IT experience, they're coming from a different place depending on the size of their organization. It's hard sometimes for folks to understand (on both sides of the aisle), that software/hardware replacement projects scale poorly. When you go from 300 people with 4 sites to 75,000 people with 100s of sites you're growing a project from a few thousand dollars and a few hundred man hours to millions of dollars and millions of man hours, and the complexity of the project grows geometrically with both the number of systems that are interfaced and the amount of revenue generated by impacted business lines.

 

[PG2G]

'Skulls of Shogun' to be first game to have asynchronous XBLA play and cross-platform play

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/6/28/3122706/skulls-of-shogun-to-be-first-game-to-have-asynchronous-xbla-play-and

The game will be the first to allow players on different platforms to play with each other wirelessly and over 3G networks. There's a single-player campaign mode, real-time multiplayer, and asynchronous play, which is a first for Xbox LIVE.

Kazdal says that the asynchronous play means a player can start a game on their Xbox 360 and continue it on their phone or tablet, allowing them to play the game anywhere, any time. The turn-based multiplayer allows for up to four players at a time. The cross-platform play also applies to the single player campaign where players can begin a game on one platform and continue it on another.

This must be the reason that they couldn't reveal back then.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

Sigh..

Every computer we bought in the last two years had to have windows 7 built in. We wiped it and put xp on it.

The option we wanted as a corporation was to buy only the hardware and we would buy xp licenses.

MS said no, new dell computer must have windows 7 on it. sigh.. fine we need the hardware, we own it so we will wipe it. ms still got the numbers but no one was using it.\

If people are dumb enough to install a new os and not confirm that their backend software works they are the dumb ones. this isn't a home machine. its a corporate environment.

Glad I don't work with you, I'd rather cut off my arm than go back to XP, I suppsoe you guys are still running NT 4.0 servers too?

How about you not be so cheap and update your "backend software" once in awhile instead of having to re-write from scratch because you hung onto the past so long you ended up burning yourselves.

 

[Walshicus]

'Skulls of Shogun' to be first game to have asynchronous XBLA play and cross-platform play

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/6/28/3122706/skulls-of-shogun-to-be-first-game-to-have-asynchronous-xbla-play-and



This must be the reason that they couldn't reveal back then.

Pretty cool!

 

[M3d10n]

Glad I don't work with you, I'd rather cut off my arm than go back to XP, I suppsoe you guys are still running NT 4.0 servers too?

How about you not be so cheap and update your "backend software" once in awhile instead of having to re-write from scratch because you hung onto the past so long you ended up burning yourselves.

Or use virtual machines. Here at work we're moving all service machines to virtual machines. We even have some people (myself included) actually working on virtual machines all day. It's much easier to migrate to a new workstation that way.

 

[iavi]

'Skulls of Shogun' to be first game to have asynchronous XBLA play and cross-platform play

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/6/28/3122706/skulls-of-shogun-to-be-first-game-to-have-asynchronous-xbla-play-and



This must be the reason that they couldn't reveal back then.

Cross platform saves too, I'm guessing? Sounds perfect.

E:I'm going to make a new thread.

 

[Raoh]

Glad I don't work with you, I'd rather cut off my arm than go back to XP, I suppsoe you guys are still running NT 4.0 servers too?

How about you not be so cheap and update your "backend software" once in awhile instead of having to re-write from scratch because you hung onto the past so long you ended up burning yourselves.

LOL @ cheap.


And some of the back end software is internal so its also about how long it takes internally to upgrade/code.

Not to mention per seat licences.

Third party server software that is not yet compatible with the new servers/os's.

During our internal testing we find workflow breaking bugs that we then send to apple/microsoft and they have to find a fix and send back to us for testing.

You think when a common home user gets a windows/office update its because microsoft loves you and wants to give you a good product? It's because companies like mine find bugs that microsoft missed, they fix it and then release it for the world.

Yeah. Yall welcome.

Plus we can't upgrade every time a new OS is comes out. a vista upgrade would have been short lived and unnecessarily costly for no reason. Skipping vista was a huge corporate savings.



LOL, I said over 5,000 employees, a further search puts the number at about 34,000 as a whole when you combine divisions.

Exchange, Microsoft wants $5/mo per user

New Desktop PC (running windows 7) is $550 per person, not including monitor if upgrade is needed (add exchange and other server app licences, adobe suites, final cut studio, network equipment and services. etc per seat)

New Laptop running win7 is roughly $1,000.

New Mac Desktop is $2,646.00

New iMac is 1,218.00

New MacBook is Roughly $1,000 depending on screen and other features

Monitors for editorial staff are $500 - $800

Woodwing services and plug in licences

Font purchases and leases

etc etc etc..



But yeah.. by all means lets just throw money away without testing and stretching out the equipment and software we purchased for as long as we can.

The economy is good..