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Microsoft retooling Windows 8 later this year in response to complaints

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My angle is that I totally support the idea of Metro, and the hybrid OS....

...and that ideal hybrid should piss off no desktop user ever.

There are a couple of things that seem to be designed to force the Metro interface on desktop users (no boot to desktop, no start button) and I think those should be fixed. In a roundabout way, it's necessary to actually sell Metro!
 
ConvenientBox said:
Damn these windows threads are always the same. Didn't think an OS could so evenly draw a line between loving and hating it. I'm glad they'll at least give the complainers options even though they currently have those in the form of cheap apps, but whatever - it's cool to bash Microsoft.
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Damn these posts are always the same. Didn't think a thread could draw such a line between useful posts and useless ones.

I'm glad there are mods around to help limit this bullshit. "Ohh look at all these assholes critiquing this thing I like and instead of arguing with coherent points, I'll quickly dismiss them all as 'haters' with one pathetic, limp-wristed hand wave."
 
PetriP-TNT said:
I don't have any problem with adding the option. It would be quite swell actually. But if that's the biggest problem with your OS using experience, then I don't know what to say.
Click to expand...

It's not my biggest, but it's certainly one of many. My biggest is the removal of the Start menu.

But when you have to start fighting the OS to work they way you want too you know something is wrong.
 
SteveWinwood said:
I don't want metro and I don't want to pay someone to get rid of it. I want a start bar and I don't want to pay someone else to have it. I don't want goofy shit assigned to mousing the sides or the corners.

I don't care if it's in there, just allow me to turn it off.

Just give me a faster, cleaner windows 7 thanks.
Click to expand...

And we're done here.
 
Alx said:
It really depends on the user and the application... when double-clicking on a video, I'd rather have it open a full-screen app when on my personal session, and a desktop video editor when on my professional one. So it's all a matter of user settings, which are still available.
And I don't think rules like "open a dektop app if launched from the desktop, a metro app if launched from metro (whatever that would mean)" would really help. If anything, it would dig further into the false duality of desktop/metro. For me they are all windows application, some are fullscreen and some are not, but I never think "I'm currently in metro/desktop mode". And I don't need to. It's all Windows.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. But if it is "one Windows", then at least the default Metro applications should be more manipulable by keyboard and mouse.

When I doubleclick an image on the desktop, and it slowly launches a full screen application with a splash screen and all that, its wrong. Yes, I know I can set other default programs, but out of the box, the fact that Windows does this is baffling.

If it must launch in a Metro app.... It should do a better job at being "hybrid". I rather think if I launch it from the desktop, it should be a desktop app in a window..... Perhaps if I start touching it, then it should go full-screen metro.... I dunno. Just the way it is now it clearly wrong. History will bear that out - I don't expect it to last like this.
 
ConvenientBox said:
Damn these windows threads are always the same. Didn't think an OS could so evenly draw a line between loving and hating it. I'm glad they'll at least give the complainers options even though they currently have those in the form of cheap apps, but whatever - it's cool to bash Microsoft.
Click to expand...

People aren't bashing Microsoft as a company. They're not satisfied with one of their products. Telling people to find some "cheap apps" to fix their product is laughable. They can address their customer's complaints or continue sticking their head in the sand. One might lead to improved sales and the other tells a whole swath of their base that they don't care for their business any longer.
 
giga said:
I was mocking your reason for the limitation -- it only takes a second. Many annoyances only take a second to bypass. Why have them there if you can take them out completely.

So again, not five steps back.
Click to expand...

Both boot-to-desktop and start button that leads to Metro are utterly pointless.

If you use Metro as a launcher (as intended), you can launch any desktop apps from there. Booting to the desktop doesn't add anything. You'll still want to open a program, you'll just click on a taskbar icon or something...

A start button that's only on the desktop is also useless, since none of the Metro apps will have a start button. You have to learn the corner click anyway.
 
For the most part my windows experience is the same as it was with 7. After a while I didn't miss the start bar as much any more. As soon as my computer boots up, I just click the desktop 'app' in metro and go directly there. The only time I switch back over to metro is to look at the weather app.
 
BocoDragon said:
Fair enough. But if it is "one Windows", then at least the default Metro applications should be more manipulable by keyboard and mouse.

When I doubleclick an image on the desktop, and it slowly launches a full screen application with a splash screen and all that, its wrong. Yes, I know I can set other default programs, but out of the box, the fact that Windows does this is baffling.

If it must launch in a Metro app.... It should do a better job at being "hybrid". I rather think if I launch it from the desktop, it should be a desktop app in a window..... Perhaps if I start touching it, then it should go full-screen metro.... I dunno. Just the way it is now it clearly wrong. History will bear that out - I don't expect it to last like this.
Click to expand...

That was one of my main complaints. I used the beta for something like 2 months and eventually lost my shit and rolled back to Windows 7 the n-th time this crap happened because by default every single file type is assigned to Metro apps so you have to change them one by one as you start using them. I mean, I have a 22" 1080p screen in front of my face, I DON'T WANT TO SEE YOUR UGLY-ASS FULLSCREEN LAME ATTEMPT OF "APP" COVERING EVERYTHING I WAS DOING.

I mean, I have the attention span of an amoeba. This kind of stuff (a whole, unexpected and uncalled paradigm shift on the user interface) only makes things more difficult for me. Even switching to metro to find a different program on the sea of icons or search for a file could make me completely forget what the fuck I was looking for.
 
Also - boot to desktop: It's necessary.

Sure, many of us have no problems turning on the PC and clicking on desktop.... But there are so many uses of Windows where we might want to use a computer as an XBMC device, or a server, or a seedbox... whatever.

Forcing these users to hacks or Linux or Win 7 is just self-defeating.

MS should win the acceptance of the Metro interface by allowing the choice to bypass it.
 
Vagabundo said:
Good. Get rid of metro and bring back the start menu. Done.

Make it so MS.
Click to expand...

No. I didn't buy Windows 8 to have another version of Windows 7. I bought it for the changes it brings. The only thing Windows 8 was missing is a Start Button on the taskbar to make it easier to get to the Start Screen and I used Start8 to fix that.

We have been looking at the taskbar/Start Menu setup for almost 20 years. Some of you who hate change might be happier with DOS.
 
Already use Start8 on my desktop and laptop, so this won't affect me in the slightest

I'm usually doing 3-4 things at once, so any app that takes up my entire screen that is not a game is fucking useless to me
 
Vane_MagicCity said:
No. I didn't buy Windows 8 to have another version of Windows 7. I bought it for the changes it brings. The only thing Windows 8 was missing is a Start Button on the taskbar to make it easier to get to the Start Screen and I used Start8 to fix that.

We have been looking at the taskbar/Start Menu setup for almost 20 years. Some of you who hate change might be happier with DOS.
Click to expand...

Change isn't necessarily good. Like the people saying iOS must change but unable to quantify why it must.

You even admit to 'fixing' it with a 3rd party app. Microsoft made a huge mistake in forcing a tablet interface on non tablet computers. Everyone knows this. The sales show this. It was a bad design mistake that at first was about 'no compromise' and is now all about compromise.
 
Burger said:
Change isn't necessarily good. Like the people saying iOS must change but unable to quantify why it must.

You even admit to 'fixing' it with a 3rd party app. Microsoft made a huge mistake in forcing a tablet interface on non tablet computers. Everyone knows this. The sales show this. It was a bad design mistake that at first was about 'no compromise' and is now all about compromise.
Click to expand...

No, I used Start8 to make it EASIER to get to the Metro interface.
 
Vane_MagicCity said:
No. I didn't buy Windows 8 to have another version of Windows 7. I bought it for the changes it brings. The only thing Windows 8 was missing is a Start Button on the taskbar to make it easier to get to the Start Screen and I used Start8 to fix that.

We have been looking at the taskbar/Start Menu setup for almost 20 years. Some of you who hate change might be happier with DOS.
Click to expand...

I agree that the Metro Start Screen is a fair alternative to the start "menu" of Win 95-Win 7. Personally, I think it's an improvement (even on mouse and keyboard! I like a nice fullscreen task launcher).

But it's the stuff like no start button to get there that seems unintuitive. And I don't think it was driven by being a UI design choice. It was to privilege Metro as some sort of superior interface above the desktop. Fine stuff for pipe dreams where the Metro was taking over, and closed, paid apps would dominate the land - but that ain't happening. Better allow the full use of Metro as a desktop-worthy launcher (which I think it does a fair job at).
 
BocoDragon said:
I agree that the Metro Start Screen is a fair alternative to the start "menu" of Win 95-Win 7. Personally, I think it's an improvement (even on mouse and keyboard! I like a nice fullscreen task launcher).

But it's the stuff like no start button to get there that seems unintuitive. And I don't think it was driven by being a UI design choice. It was to privilege Metro as some sort of superior interface above the desktop. Fine stuff for pipe dreams where the Metro was taking over and closed, paid apps would dominate the land - but that ain't happening. Better allow the full use of Metro as a desktop-worthy launcher (which I think it does a fair job at).
Click to expand...

Yeah, at this early stage we are all still using old Windows programs that don't use Metro so we spend most of our time on the desktop. That may or may not change in the future. Microsoft should have added a Start Button to make it easier to get back to the Start Screen. Start8 does that for me though. That is the perfect link for people used to using earlier versions of Windows.

Burger said:
You paid $4.99 to put a button on your desktop that does the same thing as clicking in the corner of the destop?
Click to expand...

Yes, for 3 desktop PC's actually.
 
Vane_MagicCity said:
Yeah, at this early stage we are all still using old Windows programs that don't use Metro so we spend most of our time on the desktop. That may or may not change in the future. Microsoft should have added a Start Button to make it easier to get back to the Start Screen. Start8 does that for me though. That is the perfect link for people used to using earlier versions of Windows.
Click to expand...

That's right. And I don't even "need" a start button myself. I get the whole bottom-left corner thing.... I just think it should be there.

My mom won't know how to launch Metro, and she'll never know how to buy Start8, or want to buy Start8 ;P

Why make this hard? Again, I think there were some Microsoft fever-dreams about forcing the Metro interface onto people, that resulted in some bizzare deciions. That world isn't manifesting, so better to make it the best hybrid OS it can be. Such a hybrid would include a visually clickable way to launch Metro :P
 
Burger said:
You paid $4.99 to put a button on your desktop that does the same thing as clicking in the corner of the destop?
Click to expand...

I really need to get into this 'make money on the internet' bizniz

Burger said:
The sales show this. It was a bad design mistake that at first was about 'no compromise' and is now all about compromise.
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actually they don't
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/7/4306292/windows-8-100-million-license-sales

they match windows 7 currently.

however, win8 is kind of an awkward 'middle phase' OS currently.

I sometimes feel like they should have just made metro somehow just run all applications and just be able to be properly non touch driven. But I've no idea how they reconcile the 2 environments, or if it's even possible. Hopefully windows blue or whatever addresses the problems.
 
catfish said:
I really need to get into this 'make money on the internet' bizniz



actually they don't
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/7/4306292/windows-8-100-million-license-sales

they match windows 7 currently.

however, win8 is kind of an awkward 'middle phase' OS currently.

I sometimes feel like they should have just made metro somehow just run all applications and just be able to be properly non touch driven. But I've no idea how they reconcile the 2 environments, or if it's even possible. Hopefully windows blue or whatever addresses the problems.
Click to expand...

When the first half of your life was $15 licenses it's hard to compare.
 
gcubed said:
When the first half of your life was $15 licenses it's hard to compare.
Click to expand...

well, it was a clever move to get the software onto pcs. were there no cheap ways to get 7?
 
gcubed said:
Didn't say most, but if your OEM market is continually slowing they came from some wherewhere
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You didn't say most but you also didn't mention the other 2 options for getting Windows 8, paying $40 for the upgrade and buying a new PC with it on there. You talk as if the $15 option was the only one.

Not that I really care about the sales of Windows 8 but you aren't debating honestly and that does bother me.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
that's not even what he said...

He said "half the life of the OS was 15 dollars"

fact
Click to expand...

No it's not a fact. Half the life of the OS was a $15 option for some people, $40 option for some people and buying a PC with Windows 8 on it for some people.

He was pretending that every copy of Windows 8 sold was $15 because he failed to mention the other options.

If we were to figure out the average price for Windows 8, it wouldn't be $15. Most people paid more than double that for it.
 
"Learning curve"? No. Metro is just plain unintuitive with a mouse and keyboard set up. I have to hover my mouse in the corners for shit? No thanks. I don't hide my damn taskbar for a reason.

It just feels like a piss poor UI slapped on top of Windows 7. Minus the start button.
 
I don't get the miring for the boot to desktop option. You're still going to start a program when you there, unless you just intend to stare at your wallpaper. Makes no difference to me, clicking on an icon on the taskbar or clicking one from the start screen. Especially at boot, when you have no programs running.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
"Learning curve"? No. Metro is just plain unintuitive with a mouse and keyboard set up. I have to hover my mouse in the corners for shit? No thanks. I don't hide my damn taskbar for a reason.

It just feels like a piss poor UI slapped on top of Windows 7. Minus the start button.
Click to expand...

So you like stuff hidden, yet complain when stuff is now hidden?

Wut?
 
Maybe they realized that an OS designed around tablets and touchscreens just doesn't work well with a mouse and keyboard or trackpad. It takes two seconds to click X and exit the program, not drag it down and to the side.

Want to shutdown? As opposed to clicking start, shutdown. You have to move the mouse to the corner, wait for a popup, select from the options etc.

Windows 8 works great on a surface tablet. On a laptop without a touchscreen, not so much.
 
Burger said:
Damn these posts are always the same. Didn't think a thread could draw such a line between useful posts and useless ones.

I'm glad there are mods around to help limit this bullshit. "Ohh look at all these assholes critiquing this thing I like and instead of arguing with coherent points, I'll quickly dismiss them all as 'haters' with one pathetic, limp-wristed hand wave."
Click to expand...

Passive aggressive much? Microsoft has stated they're going to fix the problems based off complaints and the steam roller circle jerk posts about how bad the os is now continue and honestly it's annoying to read in every single one of these threads. It be nice if we could get one clean windows 8 thread, it's pretty sad actually. It's funny you call my attempt limp wristed yet I actually stated solutions on how I fix the most basic problem most people have with 8...
 
Burger said:
Change isn't necessarily good. Like the people saying iOS must change but unable to quantify why it must.

You even admit to 'fixing' it with a 3rd party app. Microsoft made a huge mistake in forcing a tablet interface on non tablet computers. Everyone knows this. The sales show this. It was a bad design mistake that at first was about 'no compromise' and is now all about compromise.
Click to expand...

Anyone who has ever had to design anything ever knows that design is all about compromise. Choosing which compromises are acceptable and which are not.

Which is why it was personally frustrating to see MS tout "no compromise" as a design goal with the Windows 8 reveal and have some people buy into it. It was never going to be possible to have a no compromise design. Such a thing doesn't exist and I bet every engineer who worked on Windows 8 knew it was the worst kind of marketing spin.

The iPad has a lot of compromises to the hardware and software. But Apple chose to compromise aspects that most consumers seem to be happy with.

Microsoft's problem was they chose to compromise the wrong parts of the OS.
 
ConvenientBox said:
Passive aggressive much? Microsoft has stated they're going to fix the problems based off complaints and the steam roller circle jerk posts about how bad the os is now continue and honestly it's annoying to read in every single one of these threads. It be nice if we could get one clean windows 8 thread, it's pretty sad actually. It's funny you call my attempt limp wristed yet I actually stated solutions on how I fix the most basic problem most people have with 8...
Click to expand...

This thread is specifically about Microsoft fixing complaints that people have, yet you expect people to not discuss these complaints... because reasons.

There is a general Windows thread. (oh, you've posted in it 11 times. weird.)

Also your 'solutions' on how to fix complaints people have is to spend money on 3rd party applications. That's not really holding Microsoft accountable for their fuck up is it?
 
Whoever thought it was a good idea to release a desktop OS with two completely disparate interfaces needs to be taken out back and shot. I can honestly see Microsoft losing the consumer desktop within the next five years, and they didn't really do themselves any favours by making such a monumental blunder.
 
Polari said:
Whoever thought it was a good idea to release a desktop OS with two completely disparate interfaces needs to be taken out back and shot. I can honestly see Microsoft losing the consumer desktop within the next five years, and they didn't really do themselves any favours by making such a monumental blunder.
Click to expand...

Consumer desktop is a form factor heading to niche territory no matter what OS comes out and Windows will be the lifetime champion by default as the true competition shifts fully to tablet/phone/hybrids/projectors/wearable glasses/whatever else the future may hold.
 
Polari said:
I can honestly see Microsoft losing the consumer desktop within the next five years
Click to expand...

:lol

Have you tried running OSX or any Linux distro at the office? Good fucking luck getting any of your legacy windows software to work on those. This wont happen.

Microsoft is playing their cards right, they pushed Metro out. That's done, now to refine it. I'm personally waiting for 8.1 to arrive, apparently I can have Metro on 1 monitor and Desktop on another... Mmmm..
 
Madness said:
Maybe they realized that an OS designed around tablets and touchscreens just doesn't work well with a mouse and keyboard or trackpad. It takes two seconds to click X and exit the program, not drag it down and to the side.

Want to shutdown? As opposed to clicking start, shutdown. You have to move the mouse to the corner, wait for a popup, select from the options etc.

Windows 8 works great on a surface tablet. On a laptop without a touchscreen, not so much.
Click to expand...

Uhm. I seem to have Xs on my Win8 just fine.
 
Frustrated_me said:
:lol

Have you tried running OSX or any Linux distro at the office? Good fucking luck getting any of your legacy windows software to work on those. This wont happen.

Microsoft is playing their cards right, they pushed Metro out. That's done, now to refine it. I'm personally waiting for 8.1 to arrive, apparently I can have Metro on 1 monitor and Desktop on another... Mmmm..
Click to expand...

He said consumer not business :)

I don't see them losing the consumer desktop market share but I see the consumer desktop space shrinking to the point where they hold the platform majority of a market no one cares about anymore.
 
I use w7 on my main desktop, but I have 8 on my main laptop.
I don't think it's bad at all, but I NEVER use the tile interface. 100% desktop mode.
 
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